[WvW] Binded once every 6 seconds, immobed every 2 seconds WITHOUT binds ... not ok

[solemn.9670]

There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

-solemn

[Swagger.1459]

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:There is literally nothing you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime, nothing works vs this ranger build. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

-solemn

So you win most fights and now lost a couple... Should we be asking why you win most fights and what to nerf on the profession you were using?

Edit- I understand what we have to do now! Nerf the supertank ele build you run. Buff ranger builds since you admit that you "do not have issues fighting rangers". It is "absurdly unbalanced" that you "win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating.", so we need the win/lose ratio for all professions to be 5/5 for balance reasons. Right?

[Krispera.5087]

@Swagger.1459 said:Nerf the supertank ele build you run.

An weaver complaining about a meme build ? The weaver that has plenty of tools to clear itself from condis and disengage !?

And he's playing condi fire weaver, a build that dish 15 burns + in secs. LOL

[GUFF.5692]

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

-solemn

Yeah, I don't see this condi druid build going away anytime soon unless the devs really tackle condition damage/CC balancing issues. They also need to look at trailblazer stats and the fact condi dosen't need to stack three offensive stats like power does (power, precision and ferocity versus condition damage and expertise).

However, one thing they could do now is to lower the "health" of the entangled vines allowing you a better chance hacking your way out of them. They were previously balanced when we had higher damage but after the huge damage nerfs they over perform.

[Mauzi.5892]

@GUFF.5692 said:They also need to look at trailblazer stats and the fact condi dosen't need to stack three offensive stats like power does (power, precision and ferocity versus condition damage and expertise).

And that's where you are wrong. In order for your condis to do dmg you need sustain fo them to tick and fot you to reapply them. Meaning toughness and vitality.Go play wvw with sinister stats and tell me how it went.

[Yasai.3549]

The problem isn't Ranger, it's the pets, AGAIN.

The joker applying Immob over and over is Jarcanda's Embrace.It is a pulsing targeted root, and in addition to Entangling Vines, can give the illusion of repeated immob application and there is no way to cancel it like Entangling Vines.

They should probably just make it an immob for a long duration instead of pulsing it, because atm this skill alone can pulse immob for up to 10 seconds, with small intervals in between of course.

Pets need nerfs.Alot of broken aspects of Pets have slipped from the radar from the nerf meteor and need toning down, badly.

[Lazze.9870]

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

You're right. When you add up all the nerfs druid has gotten over the years, and Anet's complete lack of reinventing this supposed support elite spec, it gets a bit absurd.

Of course, you're not gonna give two shits about that once the immob is gone and druid is left further behind.

[Dawdler.8521]

Tbh I find the fact they can escape literally everything except maybe a shortbow thief the more absurd part. There are a ton of druids in WvW now and they all build exactly the same - they either lock you down forever while peppering you with their primary guns or they fail at it, swap and fly away faster than Sonic on crack.

[LughLongArm.5460]

@Yasai.3549 said:The problem isn't Ranger, it's the pets, AGAIN.

The joker applying Immob over and over is Jarcanda's Embrace.It is a pulsing targeted root, and in addition to Entangling Vines, can give the illusion of repeated immob application and there is no way to cancel it like Entangling Vines.

They should probably just make it an immob for a long duration instead of pulsing it, because atm this skill alone can pulse immob for up to 10 seconds, with small intervals in between of course.

Pets need nerfs.Alot of broken aspects of Pets have slipped from the radar from the nerf meteor and need toning down, badly.

Or.... and much more likely, that the immob guy is playing a condi druid with like gzillion immob sources. Which is not even an issue because immob got so many hard counter traits/skills. It is very effective vs some class and useless vs other.

[Blocki.4931]

@LughLongArm.5460 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:The problem isn't Ranger, it's the pets, AGAIN.

The joker applying Immob over and over is Jarcanda's Embrace.It is a pulsing targeted root, and in addition to Entangling Vines, can give the illusion of repeated immob application and there is no way to cancel it like Entangling Vines.

They should probably just make it an immob for a long duration instead of pulsing it, because atm this skill alone can pulse immob for up to 10 seconds, with small intervals in between of course.

Pets need nerfs.Alot of broken aspects of Pets have slipped from the radar from the nerf meteor and need toning down, badly.

Or.... and much more likely, that the immob guy is playing a condi druid with like gzillion immob sources. Which is not even an issue because immob got so many hard counter traits/skills. It is very effective vs some class and useless vs other.

The problem is that many of them can only do it a few times before they run out of cleanses or ways to remove it. Even on my warrior those druids are extremely annoying because in order to actually kill them I might have to use a couple of my skills that can break me out. As it stands the build removes one of the core aspects of the game, which is being able to dodge things and move out of the way. It's too easily applied for how often it happens and most other instances of a situation like this happening have been slowly but surely removed from the game because they are fun for absolutely nobody.

[Yasai.3549]

@LughLongArm.5460 said:

Or.... and much more likely, that the immob guy is playing a condi druid with like gzillion immob sources. Which is not even an issue because immob got so many hard counter traits/skills. It is very effective vs some class and useless vs other.

So many hard counter traits?Only hard counter is Weaver's Woven Stride, Warrior's Sprint and Aggressive Agility.Warrior's Sprint and Aggressive Agility aren't hard counters either, both of which are strictly tied to movement skill cooldowns, both of which do not counter pulsing Immob at all.

Other movement crippling reduction traits don't counter Immob spam at all, merely reducing the duration they are debilitated by, meaning an Immob of 1 sec but with several applications will simply render these traits useless.

And the only other thing which counters Immob is Resistance, which isn't easy to get for a majority of the builds out there.

[LughLongArm.5460]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"LughLongArm.5460" said:

Or.... and much more likely, that the immob guy is playing a condi druid with like gzillion immob sources. Which is not even an issue because immob got so many hard counter traits/skills. It is very effective vs some class and useless vs other.

So many hard counter traits?Only hard counter is Weaver's Woven Stride, Warrior's Sprint and Aggressive Agility.Warrior's Sprint and Aggressive Agility aren't hard counters either, both of which are strictly tied to movement skill cooldowns, both of which do not counter pulsing Immob at all.

Other movement crippling reduction traits don't counter Immob spam at all, merely reducing the duration they are debilitated by, meaning an Immob of 1 sec but with several applications will simply render these traits useless.

And the only other thing which counters Immob is Resistance, which isn't easy to get for a majority of the builds out there.

Warriors/revs with Warrior's Sprint and Aggressive Agility are definitely immune to the immob spam tactic, I'm not speculating about this, I'm 100% positive.

Also:

And any kind of blink/shadow step / teleport like skill.Any kind of Invulnerability like skillsAny kind of skill that specifically remove root.

Any kind of skill that combines condi removal+movementAny kind of big aoe damage skills that destroy the vines before they even notice the immob(like with holos)

Regarding the "movement crippling reduction traits" which reduce immob by 33%:- If you use antitoxin rune(as the OP claims) or Resistance(which very popular regardless)+ the food buff that reduce condi by 20%(very good food). , it will reduce the 1 sec immob pulses to like 0.2 sec immob every 1 sec. If you cannot get out of vine zone during this interval it is on you. This combo hard counter for immob. This is actually my only immob defense on my build. and it works like a charm.

[LughLongArm.5460]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@LughLongArm.5460 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:The problem isn't Ranger, it's the pets, AGAIN.

The joker applying Immob over and over is Jarcanda's Embrace.It is a pulsing targeted root, and in addition to Entangling Vines, can give the illusion of repeated immob application and there is no way to cancel it like Entangling Vines.

They should probably just make it an immob for a long duration instead of pulsing it, because atm this skill alone can pulse immob for up to 10 seconds, with small intervals in between of course.

Pets need nerfs.Alot of broken aspects of Pets have slipped from the radar from the nerf meteor and need toning down, badly.

Or.... and much more likely, that the immob guy is playing a condi druid with like gzillion immob sources. Which is not even an issue because immob got so many hard counter traits/skills. It is very effective vs some class and useless vs other.

The problem is that many of them can only do it a few times before they run out of cleanses or ways to remove it. Even on my warrior those druids are extremely annoying because in order to actually kill them I might have to use a couple of my skills that can break me out. As it stands the build removes one of the core aspects of the game, which is being able to dodge things and move out of the way. It's too easily applied for how often it happens and most other instances of a situation like this happening have been slowly but surely removed from the game because they are fun for absolutely nobody.

I actually do agree that A.net gave rangers way to many immob skills, it could be extremely effective in some matches and very poor in others. You never want to put all the eggs in one basket. My main comment was regarding Jarcanda's which in my opinion is not the issue.

Glyph of alignment should get something else instead of immobSignet of the wild need something else instead of immobChild of earth needs increased CD.

[Swagger.1459]

Can't win every duel. There are tons of immobilize skills across professions, not just the ranger. There are ways to deal with immobilize. Use them.

We don't need to change the game based off of duel results. This isn't Duel Wars 2 Online.

[Strider.7849]

Although the op is exaggerating quite a bit, it's unfortunate that druid got forced into such a meme role for any PvP environment. I'm all for nerfing this if they fix/change druid. It really needs a massive overhaul.

[GUFF.5692]

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@GUFF.5692 said:They also need to look at trailblazer stats and the fact condi dosen't need to stack three offensive stats like power does (power, precision and ferocity versus condition damage and expertise).

And that's where you are wrong. In order for your condis to do dmg you need sustain fo them to tick and fot you to reapply them. Meaning toughness and vitality.Go play wvw with sinister stats and tell me how it went.

My main concern is the offensive stats. For condi it's only two compared to three for power. This allows condi builds to stack more toughness to inflate their sustain to much higher levels than a power build can achieve. Every class and build only has so large of a budget for stats from gear.

[holiboy.4637]

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

-solemn

Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

[LughLongArm.5460]

@holiboy.4637 said:

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

-solemn

Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

And just to prove me right, you didn't even used Jacaranda. Cheers.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Druid seeing g play now is a great thing and doesnt need nerfed to the point it's never seen again. I think vines still have the hp that was balanced for a higher power level, since last patch hammered power levels down mechanics like barrier,shroud and vines are overperforming and hopefully will see adjustments. Once that happens along with dps nerfs to few pets and the game wide condi nerf druid will be fine.

[Clownmug.8357]

What's all this talk about Jacaranda? The 10 sec cooldown for Ancient Seeds in wvw is the problem. Pick some decent hard cc pets like rock gazelle, electric wyvern, and smokescale and it's almost like having a pulse immobilize on any hit.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Blizzard realized about 12 years ago that CC needed diminishing returns in a competitive mode, so ANET may get there eventually.

EDIT: btw, do you know when in WvW fighting druids isn't annoying? When I'm grouped with 25 people with dedicated support.

If you like small scale / solo roaming and yet defend this issue, you're just voting against your own self-interests, thus encouraging people to just play in larger groups.

[anduriell.6280]

@Clownmug.8357 said:What's all this talk about Jacaranda? The 10 sec cooldown for Ancient Seeds in wvw is the problem. Pick some decent hard cc pets like rock gazelle, electric wyvern, and smokescale and it's almost like having a pulse immobilize on any hit.That trait need first to apply some kind of hard CC (daze or stun) and then the druid has to hit you while with that condition.

Let me check about superannoying ranged weapon skills with immob in less than 10s CD with no other requirment than to hit the button.

• Spotter Shot (thief)
• Infiltrator Strike (thief)
• Brutal Shot (warrior)
• Net Shot (engineer)
• Bola Shot (thief)
• Surprise Shot(thief)

Let's nerf all of those and then look into the traits.

[Clownmug.8357]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:What's all this talk about Jacaranda? The 10 sec cooldown for Ancient Seeds in wvw is the problem. Pick some decent hard cc pets like rock gazelle, electric wyvern, and smokescale and it's almost like having a pulse immobilize on any hit.That trait need first to apply some kind of hard CC (daze or stun) and then the druid has to hit you while with that condition.

Let me check about superannoying ranged weapon skills with immob in less than 10s CD with no other requirment than to hit the button.

• Spotter Shot (thief)
• Infiltrator Strike (thief)
• Brutal Shot (warrior)
• Net Shot (engineer)
• Bola Shot (thief)
• Surprise Shot(thief)

Let's nerf all of those and then look into the traits.

Pet does the CC then druid just has to hit you with anything. None of those skills pulse and cover with bleed.

[anduriell.6280]

@Clownmug.8357 said:Pet does the CC then druid just has to hit you with anything. None of those skills pulse and cover with bleed.Pet does random CC with a 2 seconds cast time which randomly hit the player because of pathing. Not really a reliable source of CC, If you get caught by this you definitely deserve the ancient seed.

[Clownmug.8357]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Pet does the CC then druid just has to hit you with anything. None of those skills pulse and cover with bleed.

Pet does random CC with a 2 seconds cast time which randomly hit the player because of pathing.

Not really a reliable source of CC, If you get caught by this you definitely deserve the ancient seed.

Rock gazelle and electric wyvern also have command skills for CC. Smokescale typically uses Takedown immediately after teleporting to targets with Smoke Assault. The supposed 2 sec cast time you mention would be gazelle's Charge skill I'm guessing? It's only 2 sec to reach the max range, the actual activation is only like 0.5 sec. Let's not pretend all pet CC is the same as landing that skill on the last frame of animation with uneven terrain.