[WvW] Binded once every 6 seconds, immobed every 2 seconds WITHOUT binds ... not ok

[Revolution.5409]

In this game there is no Build that can beat every Build.

With such a high average of victories I don't see what you could ever want to complain about, more than anything else I would say that maybe the Build you use offers a little too much and would need some nerf.

[anduriell.6280]

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Pet does the CC then druid just has to hit you with anything. None of those skills pulse and cover with bleed.

Pet does random CC with a 2 seconds cast time which randomly hit the player because of pathing.

Not really a reliable source of CC, If you get caught by this you definitely deserve the ancient seed.

Rock gazelle and electric wyvern also have command skills for CC. Smokescale typically uses Takedown immediately after teleporting to targets with Smoke Assault. The supposed 2 sec cast time you mention would be gazelle's Charge skill I'm guessing? It's only 2 sec to reach the max range, the actual activation is only like 0.5 sec. Let's not pretend all pet CC is the same as landing that skill on the last frame of animation with uneven terrain.

Wyvern is useless. The F2 has a 2s windup and the wing buffet is the same. It can't even follow the target.

Smoke has the 2s wind up and the takedown is random is 50% chance to do that or a couple of autoattacks first, Also if you look at the pet you clearly can see the animation same as canines.

Gazelle has a 2s warm up for the charge and the F2 is totally random which has an animation of 1s yet less visible. The headbut is triggered in the position you where when the ranger cast the F2, which means if you are moving it will not hit you. Same for many pet CC skills. Gazelle is very unreliable, but players use it because if it hits is the only which deal some damage together with some vitality to not melt as birds do with their 12K.

Just try to play competitive with ranger and you will see how many problems the pet has when trying to have any degree of control over it and make it effective.

Look damage from pets is think ok, the bird elite does 4-6K in 2 impacts. Soulbeast use them because of the mobility in beastmode and because it can stick to target.

Now if you tell me sicem+attack of opportunity + F2 does 6-8K every 30s i think that also is inline with the package damage which other classes can dish out more frequently and which much less coordination . Examples as warrior can deliver 15k just pressing F1. Or a thief in stealth F1+Backstab from stealth. And every single other class has similar combos.

Just learn to play against a pve mob, it's not that difficult really.

[pninak.1069]

DE actually can pretty much endlessly keep the enemy immobilized at a 1500 range. and since target will run out of cleanses DE can make a dash behind and stay at 1500 range again. this is possible for over a minute or 2 in wvw. and if you time it right you can propably even kill an enemy player without much effort. Most other classes got a cd on their immobilizes atleast and ranger and druid entangle and seed can be negated if you got faster immob recovery and simply walk a bit to the site. rev can use mallyx to ignore this effect for a short time. mirage got the port. warrior's sprint propably works with rifle skill 4 too. reaper and necro can shift immob back to druid. There are a lot of options here. maybe best thing is to either remove the immob when it procs or use reflect to avoid the burst.

[Clownmug.8357]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:Pet does the CC then druid just has to hit you with anything. None of those skills pulse and cover with bleed.

Pet does random CC with a 2 seconds cast time which randomly hit the player because of pathing.

Not really a reliable source of CC, If you get caught by this you definitely deserve the ancient seed.

Rock gazelle and electric wyvern also have command skills for CC. Smokescale typically uses Takedown immediately after teleporting to targets with Smoke Assault. The supposed 2 sec cast time you mention would be gazelle's Charge skill I'm guessing? It's only 2 sec to reach the max range, the actual activation is only like 0.5 sec. Let's not pretend all pet CC is the same as landing that skill on the last frame of animation with uneven terrain.

Wyvern is useless. The F2 has a 2s windup and the wing buffet is the same. It can't even follow the target.

Smoke has the 2s wind up and the takedown is random is 50% chance to do that or a couple of autoattacks first, Also if you look at the pet you clearly can see the animation same as canines.

Gazelle has a 2s warm up for the charge and the F2 is totally random which has an animation of 1s yet less visible. The headbut is triggered in the position you where when the ranger cast the F2, which means if you are moving it will not hit you. Same for many pet CC skills. Gazelle is very unreliable, but players use it because if it hits is the only which deal some damage together with some vitality to not melt as birds do with their 12K.

Just try to play competitive with ranger and you will see how many problems the pet has when trying to have any degree of control over it and make it effective.

Look damage from pets is think ok, the bird elite does 4-6K in 2 impacts. Soulbeast use them because of the mobility in beastmode and because it can stick to target.

Now if you tell me sicem+attack of opportunity + F2 does 6-8K every 30s i think that also is inline with the package damage which other classes can dish out more frequently and which much less coordination . Examples as warrior can deliver 15k just pressing F1. Or a thief in stealth F1+Backstab from stealth. And every single other class has similar combos.

Just learn to play against a pve mob, it's not that difficult really.

Now you're just making up numbers in addition to pretending fully channeled skills are the same as cast times. Not going to bother with this anymore.

[Teratus.2859]

As some of us have called out repeatedly for a while now.. the problem is counterplay.

The amount of CC vs the amount of breaks/cleanses to counter it is abysmal.We need a decent immunity phase after successful stunbreak.

[anduriell.6280]

@Clownmug.8357 said:Now you're just making up numbers in addition to pretending fully channeled skills are the same as cast times. Not going to bother with this anymore.Just play the class in competitive and you tell me how it performs in >Plat 2. As i said i've seen streamers whine because they got hit by a 3.5K F2 from a bird. Which could be 5K and still would be ok.

@Teratus.2859 said:As some of us have called out repeatedly for a while now.. the problem is counterplay.

The amount of CC vs the amount of breaks/cleanses to counter it is abysmal.We need a decent immunity phase after successful stunbreak.I agree fully. If anet would implement the debuff to conditions i commented many times when you break stun or daze you would get 1 second of immunity to that specific condition, which should be fine to break spamming stunlocks.

[KeyOrion.9506]

People complaining about OP rangers again? Seriously? OP ranger's aren't allowed in the game? Well that just sucks.

[primatos.5413]

All i see is two clown builds doing circus tricks.. where's the problem again?Aaahh this immob thing... yeah quite annoying won't get changed i think.

[Eramonster.2718]

Did run a similar build or the general idea to play around immobilize. Its fun and good to kill bad and panicking players.All the build variant or at least the ones I've tried with this idea had problems. Mainly boons or vulnerable to CC.WvW - Tested it work for the first week. Noticed more players playing around the same idea. Experiencing players gaining more understanding and countering the build.PvP - 50-50 during the first week. Weak for high level game play.

[Koen.1327]

equip sigil of cleansing then press w and weapon swap

[anduriell.6280]

@Eramonster.2718 said:Did run a similar build or the general idea to play around immobilize. Its fun and good to kill bad and panicking players.All the build variant or at least the ones I've tried with this idea had problems. Mainly boons or vulnerable to CC.WvW - Tested it work for the first week. Noticed more players playing around the same idea. Experiencing players gaining more understanding and countering the build.PvP - 50-50 during the first week. Weak for high level game play.

Ranger has access to 2 immob skills:

• Entangle: It is an elite with a 60s CD. This skill is fine.
• Ancient seeds, this is a passive trait which triggers when you have been randomly CC'ed. This one has 20s ICD in PVP and 10s CD in WvW. From my opinion it should have 20s CD in all gamemodes as 10s is too spammable for such a low skill passive trait.

In PvP i haven't had much of a problem with that trait but in WvW it is kinda annoying. I still think that trait should be removed and the effect to be placed in Staff's Vine Surge (to replace the existing immob for the vines from Ancient seeds).

[God.2708]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Eramonster.2718" said:Did run a similar build or the general idea to play around immobilize. Its fun and good to kill bad and panicking players.All the build variant or at least the ones I've tried with this idea had problems. Mainly boons or vulnerable to CC.WvW - Tested it work for the first week. Noticed more players playing around the same idea. Experiencing players gaining more understanding and countering the build.PvP - 50-50 during the first week. Weak for high level game play.

Ranger has access to 2 immob skills:

• Entangle: It is an elite with a 60s CD. This skill is fine.
• Ancient seeds, this is a passive trait which triggers when you have been randomly CC'ed. This one has 20s ICD in PVP and 10s CD in WvW. From my opinion it should have 20s CD in all gamemodes as 10s is too spammable for such a low skill passive trait.

In PvP i haven't had much of a problem with that trait but in WvW it is kinda annoying. I still think that trait should be removed and the effect to be placed in Staff's Vine Surge (to replace the existing immob for the vines from Ancient seeds).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobile

Come on, don't spout nonsense that is so easily looked up. You can put no less than 10 different immobilizes on a rangers bar via traits, utilities, pet skills, and weapon skills.

Go druid, Vine Surge, Crippling Shot, Natural Convergence, take a Jacaranda + Krytan Hound, two more, Muddy Terrain, Glyph of Alignment, Entangle, Any heal skill + child of earth, ancient seeds.

Can literally be casting an immobilize skill every second of a fight. Several of those pulse immobilize, others cover the immob with other conditions. If you don't have a strong consistent source of resistance good luck.

[KrHome.1920]

This build exists since HoT exists and the overall damage reduction just made it more obvious how broken it is.

Everytime someone complains about druid nerfs I think about this untouched build and have to laugh hard.

Two players in EU wvw play this since 2015. One solo roamer that lags like crazy (that alone makes him super annoying to fight - I could not stomp him multiple times because he was out of sync and got rezzed by his pet) and one other guy from a gank guild. The build is unkillable when played safe and can waste your time forever and if you don't move into a structure will peel you to death eventually.

I don't even care about it anymore after 5 years.

[Eramonster.2718]

@anduriell.6280Druid never gave any problem especially after the pet nerf (but do see Ancient Seeds a problem and unpredictable). Always go for the kill(pet too if possible asap) and never face your back to them triggering LOYF. Annoying yes but not deadly with the absence of boons. Don't come across Druid often in WvW, kinda assume it fail the test of time(can't thrive since players know how to counter them hard) or haven't met a player mastering it.

There are alot of annoying to deadly build in WvW (immobilzing Deadeyes, CC Heralds, Knockdown Tempest etc).

@God.2708 said:Come on, don't spout nonsense that is so easily looked up. You can put no less than 10 different immobilizes on a rangers bar via traits, utilities, pet skills, and weapon skills.Slotting more than 3 utility, more than 1-2 pet(s) at a time and underwater weapon on land is kinda impossible. If a ranger tries to go all in for all of that, good luck running without other utility skills.

@KrHome.1920Can't do much if its latency (any higher than 180ms most melee skill wouldn't connect either).

[hobotnicax.7918]

Looking at the video posted (if that is the fight in question), both the ranger and ele are below average roamers running builds with so many holes in them its kinda hard to think you won't be able to kill either one, ranger ran 1 stun break ffs, come on. Ele was specially bad, kept standing in bonfire/traps even without cc/immo, also kept running into 900 range of his shortbow when he had just used most of his skills, like what... have a breather man.Druid is annoying to fight against (pure immo build), but also not that hard to kill once you get the first cc in.

I don't play druid, I play melee soulbeast, and I say leave druid as is or maybe slightly tweak some durations (10-15% not more). There are other way bigger offenders currently in WvW (crev, cthief, cde, necro shroud...) that are more broken and carried by cheese mechanics.

Going by Anet history of "fixing" these kinds of things, it's either gonna be:

• they nerf the thing to the point no one plays those builds anymore
• they ignore it thinking it's fine

I for one am not holding my breath for any real balance anytime soon.