Permanent fix to Elementalist DPS in PvE

[Kidel.2057]

All "meteor-like" skills can't hit the same target more than X times.

Done.

[Feanor.2358]

Because two viable power builds in the whole game are one too many?

[juno.1840]

I think his point is by constraining Meteor Shower, then elementalist can get a boost in its other skills and in its traits so the entire profession isn't balanced around Meteor Shower.

[Feanor.2358]

Right. I can totally see a buff to pretty much every other skill incoming. Be realistic. Besides, the multi-hit attacks give a nice flavor and gameplay niche. I don't agree they should be wiped out.

[katniss.6735]

Idk. Maybe add burn to meteor shower and lava font so we don't have to play glass cannon to even enjoy the game. (ok he said pve - but glass is still pretty much the meta 99% of the time for raids).

[Feanor.2358]

@katniss.6735 said:Idk. Maybe add burn to meteor shower and lava font so we don't have to play glass cannon to even enjoy the game. (ok he said pve - but glass is still pretty much the meta 99% of the time for raids).

Again, because 2 viable power builds are one too many and we need one converted to condi? Leave staff alone, it's fine as it is.

[juno.1840]

@Feanor.2358 said:Right. I can totally see a buff to pretty much every other skill incoming. Be realistic. Besides, the multi-hit attacks give a nice flavor and gameplay niche. I don't agree they should be wiped out.

Yes but you could eliminate the RNG out of it. The OP mentioned "can only be hit X times". I would change it and say "everything standing in MS gets hit once per second, every second"... (or whatever interval makes sense, so don't dwell on the one-second number). Then you get consistent and predictable DPS out of MS.

Regardless, I do agree that staff should remain a power weapon, since it's really the best weapon we have for power builds.

[katniss.6735]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@katniss.6735 said:Idk. Maybe add burn to meteor shower and lava font so we don't have to play glass cannon to even enjoy the game. (ok he said pve - but glass is still pretty much the meta 99% of the time for raids).

Again, because 2 viable power builds are one too many and we need one converted to condi? Leave staff alone, it's fine as it is.

Add means add. Not remove the direct damage from power. Calm down, I'm not the making these threads.

[Indecision.4513]

@Kidel.2057 said:All "meteor-like" skills can't hit the same target more than X times.

Done.

If you're talking PVE you're too late ;)

"February 22, 2017

This skill now has a 0.5-second cooldown when hitting nonplayer targets."

[Kidel.2057]

My point is to avoid ele to deal 50k dps on big targets. The profession, even as power build, is already balanced on small targets. Simply make meteor-skills more deterministic and the same on all targets

[Kidel.2057]

@Raguel.9402 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:All "meteor-like" skills can't hit the same target more than X times.

Done.

If you're talking PVE you're too late ;)

"February 22, 2017

This skill now has a 0.5-second cooldown when hitting nonplayer targets."

But it's not. Pve weaver is basically the onlu dps in the game, dealing 10k more dps than any other condi class

[Feanor.2358]

@Kidel.2057 said:My point is to avoid ele to deal 50k dps on big targets. The profession, even as power build, is already balanced on small targets. Simply make meteor-skills more deterministic and the same on all targets

On small targets power ele sucks. You need to put a lot of extra effort to get subpar results. That's not balance. The only saving grace of these builds is how good they are on big targets. It's their niche, and it's a valid choice the game gives you and you want it removed. Why?

@Kidel.2057 said:

@Raguel.9402 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:All "meteor-like" skills can't hit the same target more than X times.

Done.

If you're talking PVE you're too late ;)

"February 22, 2017

This skill now has a 0.5-second cooldown when hitting nonplayer targets."

But it's not. Pve weaver is basically the onlu dps in the game, dealing 10k more dps than any other condi class

On a golem. Good luck dealing 10k more damage than any reasonable condi build in a real fight.

[Indecision.4513]

@Kidel.2057 said:

@Raguel.9402 said:

@Kidel.2057 said:All "meteor-like" skills can't hit the same target more than X times.

Done.

If you're talking PVE you're too late ;)

"February 22, 2017

This skill now has a 0.5-second cooldown when hitting nonplayer targets."

But it's not. Pve weaver is basically the onlu dps in the game, dealing 10k more dps than any other condi class

Do you seriously think that staff power weaver is that good of a dps class? Do you even know what conditions need to be met for a power weaver to pull of that kind of dps "on a large and stationary" target? Not even to mention how crazy that rotation is to begin with. Now imagine if you'd have to dodge mid meteor shower cast.

Staff weaver or tempest sucks on small hitbox targets, it's below every possible dps class in that field.

Please do take a weaver into raids or hell, even easier, fractals, and try to pull of 50k dps on bloomhunger and post a video of that :)

Ele is already fightning for a dps spot with DH, but DHcan actually do so much more just by using their F2-3 skills. What utility does staff weaver bring?

It's a build designed purely to deal dps on a large hitbox within unrealistic conditions. You can do that on KC sure.

[Feanor.2358]

Yeah, Weaver is great on KC. It's also decent on Gorse, good on Samarog and Deimos, and... that's about it. For every other boss in raids there are better dps classes.

[MyPuppy.8970]

If anything, they should buff ele damage that don't rely on gimmicks, sitting giant ducks, unreallistic and unfun setups. Seriously, does anyone really feels good doing the same exact optimal rotations? I want to dodge, evade, to make mistakes, to cc at a right time, to stop to heal or support allies, the wildest and most unpredictable the fight goes on, the more i'm having fun.

[Carighan.6758]

@Feanor.2358 said:Yeah, Weaver is great on KC. It's also decent on Gorse, good on Samarog and Deimos, and... that's about it. For every other boss in raids there are better dps classes.

Which, to be fair, isn't a bad thing. It's ~impossible to balance class-based MMORPGs to such a fine degree that there aren't better and worse picks for each individual piece of context. So long as they're so close together that not having the best ones doesn't make the content significantly more difficult.

[Feanor.2358]

@MyPuppy.8970 said:If anything, they should buff ele damage that don't rely on gimmicks, sitting giant ducks, unreallistic and unfun setups. Seriously, does anyone really feels good doing the same exact optimal rotations? I want to dodge, evade, to make mistakes, to cc at a right time, to stop to heal or support allies, the wildest and most unpredictable the fight goes on, the more i'm having fun.

Hmmm, let me think about it... I'm not doing the mistakes I've learned to avoid. I'm performing what I've mastered, on the top of my abilities. Of course it feels good. Like driving a perfect lap around a circuit feels good. While there's always excitement about learning a new circuit, the true pleasure always comes from the perfect performance. From applying the mastery you acquired after practice, practice and then some more practice. Burning down the boss as fast as possible, throwing everything you have at it, regardless that you well know you can do with only a fraction of it, is rewarding in the same way. It doesn't matter that the two experiences require very different skills. It's the dedication, the effort and the mastery level that make them rewarding.

@Carighan.6758 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Yeah, Weaver is great on KC. It's also decent on Gorse, good on Samarog and Deimos, and... that's about it. For every other boss in raids there are better dps classes.

Which, to be fair, isn't a bad thing. It's ~impossible to balance class-based MMORPGs to such a fine degree that there aren't better and worse picks for each individual piece of context. So long as they're so close together that not having the best ones doesn't make the content significantly more difficult.

I didn't say it's bad. My point is basically that ele needs this kind of advantage, because otherwise there'd be no real point of taking one. Weaver specifically, with its complete lack of group utility and CC, already can feel like a burden on some encounters.

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@MyPuppy.8970 said:If anything, they should buff ele damage that don't rely on gimmicks, sitting giant ducks, unreallistic and unfun setups. Seriously, does anyone really feels good doing the same exact optimal rotations? I want to dodge, evade, to make mistakes, to cc at a right time, to stop to heal or support allies, the wildest and most unpredictable the fight goes on, the more i'm having fun.

Hmmm, let me think about it... I'm not doing the mistakes I've learned to avoid. I'm performing what I've mastered, on the top of my abilities. Of course it feels good. Like driving a perfect lap around a circuit feels good. While there's always excitement about learning a new circuit, the true pleasure always comes from the perfect performance. From applying the mastery you acquired after practice, practice and then some more practice. Burning down the boss as fast as possible, throwing everything you have at it, regardless that you well know you can do with only a fraction of it, is rewarding in the same way. It doesn't matter that the two experiences require very different skills. It's the dedication, the effort and the mastery level that make them rewarding.

Yeah, I can understand that :) I know many people enjoy in raw performance , like sportsmen do, it is a way to measure one's own skill and looking to exceed their limits, giving a sense of satisfaction. I rarely do high pve content, but when i do i like doing it with a noob team, it always feels refreshing. I'm more the yolo adventurer type -let's go and pray for the best-

Back on topic, I still think ele damage should be buffed. Those reaching performance would have astronomical damage output, but that's fine by me. They deserve it when they spec their build and gameplay for it. The balance should come with the game mechanics, better AI and environmental threats. So more random and unpredictable stuffs in short!

[apharma.3741]

@Feanor.2358 said:Yeah, Weaver is great on KC. It's also decent on Gorse, good on Samarog and Deimos, and... that's about it. For every other boss in raids there are better dps classes.

I would say power weaver is good on KC and Gorseval only for most, too many people run all over like headless chickens on Samarog and Deimos for most weavers to really get those good meteors in and make use of the modifiers. Heavily dependent on your group not sucking and requires extremely good timing on skill usage and casting to make sure you don’t get interrupted.

Basically people are just seeing the numbers, repeating on a golem and screaming nerf without truly realising how difficult it really is to pull off vs using a firebrand or scourge with all their exceptional damage and extra goodies. Don’t have permenant alacrity and/or your Druid decided to bring sun instead of frost for the other 3 players in his sub group? Well GL getting that 40k+.

I’ve seen power weavers barely scratching 15k because of the rotation, at that point they’d be better off as condi firebrands with the exceptional damage, fairly easy rotation and tons of utility it brings in “oh s**t” moments.

[Edu.6984]

Just make meteor shower work like a big lava font. Pulsing dmg overtime.

[Indecision.4513]

@xDudisx.5914 said:Just make meteor shower work like a big lava font. Pulsing dmg overtime.

Considering reliant on rng this skill is, this would be a welcome change and easier to balance too

[Feanor.2358]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Yeah, Weaver is great on KC. It's also decent on Gorse, good on Samarog and Deimos, and... that's about it. For every other boss in raids there are better dps classes.

I would say power weaver is good on KC and Gorseval only for most, too many people run all over like headless chickens on Samarog and Deimos for most weavers to really get those good meteors in and make use of the modifiers. Heavily dependent on your group not sucking and requires extremely good timing on skill usage and casting to make sure you don’t get interrupted.

Basically people are just seeing the numbers, repeating on a golem and screaming nerf without truly realising how difficult it really is to pull off vs using a firebrand or scourge with all their exceptional damage and extra goodies. Don’t have permenant alacrity and/or your Druid decided to bring sun instead of frost for the other 3 players in his sub group? Well GL getting that 40k+.

I’ve seen power weavers barely scratching 15k because of the rotation, at that point they’d be better off as condi firebrands with the exceptional damage, fairly easy rotation and tons of utility it brings in “oh s**t” moments.

I mean on a competent players. These are the bosses where I see weavers (either me or a guild mate) as top dps. Everywhere else, we do better with other classes.

[Aceofsppades.6873]

@Kidel.2057 said:All "meteor-like" skills can't hit the same target more than X times.

Done.

meteor shower already does that

[apharma.3741]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Yeah, Weaver is great on KC. It's also decent on Gorse, good on Samarog and Deimos, and... that's about it. For every other boss in raids there are better dps classes.

I would say power weaver is good on KC and Gorseval only for most, too many people run all over like headless chickens on Samarog and Deimos for most weavers to really get those good meteors in and make use of the modifiers. Heavily dependent on your group not sucking and requires extremely good timing on skill usage and casting to make sure you don’t get interrupted.

Basically people are just seeing the numbers, repeating on a golem and screaming nerf without truly realising how difficult it really is to pull off vs using a firebrand or scourge with all their exceptional damage and extra goodies. Don’t have permenant alacrity and/or your Druid decided to bring sun instead of frost for the other 3 players in his sub group? Well GL getting that 40k+.

I’ve seen power weavers barely scratching 15k because of the rotation, at that point they’d be better off as condi firebrands with the exceptional damage, fairly easy rotation and tons of utility it brings in “oh s**t” moments.

I mean on a competent players. These are the bosses where I see weavers (either me or a guild mate) as top dps. Everywhere else, we do better with other classes.

Even some very experienced players will have trouble with the rotation for a while till they adjust for timings and mechanics, positioning and group comp so will still find it difficult to be hitting 40-47k+ people are complaining about while condi firebrand will easily hit 35k with very little effort for most people.

It’s mostly to draw attention to 1 mess up either by you or your team and your damage can plummet massively and those that thought they were decent on ele are seeing much much worse performance on weaver atm. Sadly I haven’t been allowed to really have at it on my weaver as our druids want to DPS but I intend to get some golem practise in and try some CM100 runs with it to see where I need to improve.

[Edu.6984]

@Raguel.9402 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Just make meteor shower work like a big lava font. Pulsing dmg overtime.

Considering reliant on rng this skill is, this would be a welcome change and easier to balance too

It would reduce rng and enemy hitbox size would not affect the dmg output. Win-win situation. AC fire is has arrows that fall from the sky and the dmg is a pulsating aoe.

Put a target cap of 10 to compensate in wvw.