Everyone just runs away in WVW

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I think I got it. It's the mindset everyone has. everyone thinks dying is too much of a hassle that they'd rather stand around inside a tower and wait for a zerg rather than engaging in fights.

Wow..

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I've been playing sPVP for a while and recently started doing some world vs world.

So your extensive knowledge of WvW has lead you to that brilliant conclusion, eh?

[Teratus.2859]

It's a Warzone and I treat it as such.

If im going from A to B im not going to risk a conflict that could make me have to restart and make me miss a capture etc.Likewise if im kinda/sorta scouting im also not going to pick a fight and risk getting ganked either.

I don't play WvW to test my skills or duel people.. I play it to make the enemy players dead and get my dailies done :P

[briggah.7910]

im gonna say it. warclaw made small scale fights harder to have. as someone who spent 90% of his time solo roaming it is much harder to get fun fights because you engage someone and 3 more warclaw players come along. you get downed in a fight you get warclaw stomped. you kill someone in a camp and 4 more warclaws come to help defend it.

you might as well be like everyone else and spam buttons in 50+ man blobs. also linkings killed smaller tiers that were more small scaled fights. now you get bad links and get stuck in tier 4 but are outnumbered 20 hours out the day

[HowlKamui.5120]

@briggah.7910 said:im gonna say it. warclaw made small scale fights harder to have. as someone who spent 90% of his time solo roaming it is much harder to get fun fights because you engage someone and 3 more warclaw players come along. you get downed in a fight you get warclaw stomped. you kill someone in a camp and 4 more warclaws come to help defend it.

you might as well be like everyone else and spam buttons in 50+ man blobs. also linkings killed smaller tiers that were more small scaled fights. now you get bad links and get stuck in tier 4 but are outnumbered 20 hours out the day

@mikdepadua.8376 said:We're mostly 2 people (my brother and I). I think mounts are a big offender of why small scale fighting doesnt happen

Yes thanks for that reply, that kind of reinforces my thoughts. We had an amazing messy ~3v~3 fight earlier and it was soooo fun. Had to look around for an hour for it to happen though.

[HowlKamui.5120]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I think I got it. It's the mindset everyone has. everyone thinks dying is too much of a hassle that they'd rather stand around inside a tower and wait for a zerg rather than engaging in fights.

Wow..

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I've been playing sPVP for a while and

recently started doing some world vs world.

So your extensive knowledge of WvW has lead you to that brilliant conclusion, eh?

I never said I had extensice knowledge. And it wasn't a conclusion. It was an opinion, based on observation (of my 1 week of WvW and replies in this thread).

[HowlKamui.5120]

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:A lot of the small scale and dueling builds in wvw are really annoying to fight, either because they can just sustain & kite forever, or because they are some ganking gimmick that relies on toxic game mechanics. Zerg players avoid small scale fights at all costs because most zerg builds have no chance of beating a "roaming" build, even if the zerg player is far more skilled. Other small scale fighters are often reluctant to commit to a fight because as others have said, there is usually a zerg or a ganking group nearby that wont hesitate to step in and end the fight. You might have some luck on the borderland maps, EBG is usually a mess.

I also noticed that zerg groups ball up so much in this game that it's almost impossible to bust the zerg. It IS fun picking on people who are a bit slow to stick with their ball though.

[Oogabooga.3812]

There are quite a few reasons ppl run from a fight in WvW:

• Trying to join/rejoin a different fight, assault or do some other tactic (there are many)
• Think they don’t have a good chance to win vs you
• Think the fight vs you isn’t worth the time and effort for many reasons
• Just trying to do daily achievements

I think most solo/small group players will tend to back away from an aggressive enemy that charges in guns blazing as a natural “surprised” or “not ready” reaction.

Because of the uneven numbers that are an integral part of WvW, people will pick and choose their battles far more carefully than in PvP. Roamers especially will make a build that can escape.

[Clownmug.8357]

Yeah, and everyone in sPvP just camp in circles with bunker builds right?

[Virdo.1540]

lets take an Example:People see you are an Daredevil with shortbow and Condition Bufffood.

Maybe people dont wanna fight against those. But this goes for many classes/builds.Before the last big Balance, people where avoiding warriors. Why? Because they were 60% of the time immune and healed up completely in this time. Together with insane dmg ofc. Same with Rangers back then.

Maybe your profession/build is one of those people prefer to avoid.

[HowlKamui.5120]

@Virdo.1540 said:

lets take an Example:People see you are an Daredevil with shortbow and Condition Bufffood.

Maybe people dont wanna fight against those. But this goes for many classes/builds.Before the last big Balance, people where avoiding warriors. Why? Because they were 60% of the time immune and healed up completely in this time. Together with insane dmg ofc. Same with Rangers back then.

Maybe your profession/build is one of those people prefer to avoid.

im running a tempest elementalist ><> @Clownmug.8357 said:

Yeah, and everyone in sPvP just camp in circles with bunker builds right?

not really, no. a lot of people fight even when they're not on points. they aren't doing it right but hey at least fights are happening.

[Virdo.1540]

well i can see why people are avoiding fights.

Tempests got around the same Sustain and Movement the Weaver got before the balance. Back then weavers where like warriors ,avoided for saving 5-10minutes of fight or so

Tempest are pretty strong since the patch. Thats why in 2vs2 the most matches were made with Tempest/NecroDont wanna call it broken, since i cant really estimate it.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@"briggah.7910" said:im gonna say it. warclaw made small scale fights harder to have. as someone who spent 90% of his time solo roaming it is much harder to get fun fights because you engage someone and 3 more warclaw players come along. you get downed in a fight you get warclaw stomped. you kill someone in a camp and 4 more warclaws come to help defend it.

you might as well be like everyone else and spam buttons in 50+ man blobs. also linkings killed smaller tiers that were more small scaled fights. now you get bad links and get stuck in tier 4 but are outnumbered 20 hours out the day

Yep. The PvE casuals are the ones that finally "won" WvW. They can now jump in and do dailies as safe as can be.

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

People been playing scared in WvW even before mounts. You know many times Ive been in small scale vs small scale and nobody from either side want to engage so I run in first to lead and get things started, only to turn around and see that im 1 vs 8 with my team already back over rhe hill we just came from?

But ofcourse now the enemy has balls.Picked them right out of mom's spaghetti.

[Taobella.6597]

to kill a good ele you need good CC and movement speed. most builds do not have both so engaging an ele can be a waste of time. probably what most people think when they see you.

[Shroud.2307]

99% of players just want to win is why. It isn't fun if they lose and if a fight is a challenge it's frustrating and you're a troll.

I don't roam nearly as often as I used to but I've been roaming for over 6 years and it's never changed. The better you are the more likely you are to get hard chased, outnumbered and bm'd. If you want a fight you better be prepared to chase after it or to look appetising enough bait people to a spot where they can't get away.

I think a lot of players just know that you don't have to go far to find help so they assume if they send you on a wild goose chase you'll eventually get screwed. But honestly, I don't know the answer to your question either, I've been asking myself the same thing for a long time. Not only do we now have Mounts that can get us across a map twice as fast, the penalty for dying was removed years ago and 2 of the 3 maps aren't even very large. The only thing people damage by dying is their ego and the only thing they lose is the fight - but better run anyway, that person looks scary and I don't outnumber them at least 3 to 1!

[kash.9213]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

lets take an Example:People see you are an Daredevil with shortbow and Condition Bufffood.

Maybe people dont wanna fight against those. But this goes for many classes/builds.Before the last big Balance, people where avoiding warriors. Why? Because they were 60% of the time immune and healed up completely in this time. Together with insane dmg ofc. Same with Rangers back then.

Maybe your profession/build is one of those people prefer to avoid.

im running a tempest elementalist ><> @Clownmug.8357 said:

Yeah, and everyone in sPvP just camp in circles with bunker builds right?

not really, no. a lot of people fight even when they're not on points. they aren't doing it right

but hey at least fights are happening.

Fights are happening unless you're in some obscure time zone, sounds like you're the one avoiding them and claiming it's everyone else. WvW maps breath and 1v1 can turn into a blob fight and that can then simmer down to a couple of groups out maneuvering each other, if you're missing out on that then you're not there. Go float around blobs and break what you can until you get focused or scout for awhile and actual read a map so you know who is down for what, swiping at squad tails and jumping people running for nodes isn't going to get much attention.

Edit for other posts in thread: Only problem with mounts is mount stomp, no one here should use them as any excuse except for getting their stomps stolen by friendlies.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I've been playing sPVP for a while and recently started doing some world vs world. I also play ESO for reference btw. Everything in GW2 is better than ESO in all aspects (the responsiveness of the game/ the mechanics/ the classes) except for one: no one wants to fight in WVW as compared to cyrodiil. Everyone just runs away, or fights you for a while before porting back in their towers.

Everyone just seems to just want to zerg. Don't get me wrong, ball groups are fun and all, but i want small scale fights or duels while roaming the map. Am I doing something wrong here?

I really want to enjoy WVW GW2, because I like every single aspect of this game over ESO except the large scale pvp experience (which is the most important game mode for me), so advice would be nice.

Play high mobility builds that make it harder for people to escape. If they don't want to fight, the only way to make them fight is to make it clear that they can't escape you. They will have no choice but to fight or die.

I used to play mesmer a lot for roaming. With its high mobility and stealth, I could disengage at will and most builds had a hard time escaping me. Deaths were rare because whether or not the fight continued was usually at my discretion. Now I play fire weaver, which has no stealth, no mobility, and no range, which basically means that I am all-in on engagements! There is no running away if I'm outnumbered. I'm killing you and your friends or I'm going to die trying! What's worse? All you have to do to live is walk away!

I'm okay with it. If I wanted the advantages of a high mobility roaming build, I'd play one. I think stealth is a straight up stupid design as it stands, but I will make use of it if it exists.

[XenesisII.1540]

How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

[Sovereign.1093]

You can't expect all to fight if they can't. Put yourself in their shoes.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

you must be really new to the game i guess? you said it yet, you're two people. there's several guilds that have some "lonely" looking ppl as bait, and then you get jumped by 3-4 daredevils and/or a deadeye or the classy out of sight ranger or mesmer.

roaming lately has become a gankparty, you always have to expect that where one comes, five more are just metres behind him. i once fought and downed two alone, got jumped by five before i could finish them... gg or so. i also usually don't do roaming anymore since it became this ganky and therefore only run on no-1v1 sets across the maps.

there's always this one guy that stalks your across the whole map, if you meet a friend of his on the run, it is over. on the right spots, the chasers die. lately had that when our hbl tower (cragtop) got zerged, and i fell to the lower area after smashing into the zerg and got downed by condi. one of them jumped after me to kill me, another one too but died bc of fall dmg, rallied me, i dodged, jumped and glided away, first chaser tried to follow me ... and died same as his bro one second ago. that's where we are, that's why honorable fighting is merely a joke. people chase u to the weirdest spots to scam a kill.

[Riba.3271]

Its balance issue. Back in the day builds like Blobbing well necro and Celestial frontline firebrand could easily outduel most roamers. Now if you run group focused build such as spellbreaker, heal/DPS scrapper, firebrand, well scourge etc. you're just useless in 1v1s. Even if you get enemy low they'll just reset combat OOC and oneshot you due to all the mobility all roaming builds have.

Solo roaming is quite dead tho, its mostly ganking or defending. Most roamers run 3+ people groups now.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I've been playing sPVP for a while and recently started doing some world vs world. I also play ESO for reference btw. Everything in GW2 is better than ESO in all aspects (the responsiveness of the game/ the mechanics/ the classes) except for one: no one wants to fight in WVW as compared to cyrodiil. Everyone just runs away, or fights you for a while before porting back in their towers.

Everyone just seems to just want to zerg. Don't get me wrong, ball groups are fun and all, but i want small scale fights or duels while roaming the map. Am I doing something wrong here?

I really want to enjoy WVW GW2, because I like every single aspect of this game over ESO except the large scale pvp experience (which is the most important game mode for me), so advice would be nice.

Are you in NSP per chance?I recently noticed a high influx of low rank players in NSP who don't fight like low rank PvE players.They are a lot better and fighting well as a unit but at the same time they seem to lack experience.It is like they are fighting a lot better than PvE players but mindlessly attacking and bravely entering deep into enemy lands without knowing when to fall back.

[Besetment.9187]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I think I got it. It's the mindset everyone has. everyone thinks dying is too much of a hassle that they'd rather stand around inside a tower and wait for a zerg rather than engaging in fights.

No, that is not the mindset at all.

People don't take fights they know they can't win. In sPvP you don't run a shatter mesmer into mid and take a 1v3. It doesn't matter how good you are - its a stupid fight to take and you will lose. Dying in WvW has no consequence, but people still don't like losing.

Fights tend to happen around objectives (capture points) in sPvP. What do you know? In WvW they also tend to happen around objectives (keeps and towers).

There is also the question of scale. Most damage modifiers in this game interact multiplicatively so damage scaling is incredible when player count increases up to a cap, beyond which, you are stacking buff duration and tending towards 100% uptime. To an extent, more players = more condition pressure and more redundant boon and utility sharing. This is why there is a tendency towards large scale fighting.

A significant number of people in WvW are running heavily synergistic builds that are not designed to survive and kill alone. They are designed to survive and kill together.

A significant number of people in WvW also don't want anything to do with WvW and are just there for dailies and free mystic clovers to finish their legendary. What can you do? You can pick on them if you want and plenty of people do, but 2v1ing a PvE ranger trying to get his camp capture daily is just sad. You can do better than that.

I have seen some spectacular roamers that are like storm chasers. They follow mega zergs and harass the periphery players, even managing to spike someone and get out while half the zerg turns on them. Granted they are mostly thieves that have the stealth and the teleports to pull it off, but it still takes an extraordinary degree of confidence, skill and awareness to even survive more than 1 second when outnumbered to that extent.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I've been playing sPVP for a while and recently started doing some world vs world. I also play ESO for reference btw. Everything in GW2 is better than ESO in all aspects (the responsiveness of the game/ the mechanics/ the classes) except for one: no one wants to fight in WVW as compared to cyrodiil. Everyone just runs away, or fights you for a while before porting back in their towers.

Everyone just seems to just want to zerg. Don't get me wrong, ball groups are fun and all, but i want small scale fights or duels while roaming the map. Am I doing something wrong here?

I really want to enjoy WVW GW2, because I like every single aspect of this game over ESO except the large scale pvp experience (which is the most important game mode for me), so advice would be nice.

Wouldn't you get more small scale fights by going back to Spvp then? You don't have to worry about territories, and other random WvW mechanics in Spvp...

D:

Because farming gear doesnt matter there. I dont know if im making sense, but it's nice working towards something on a game mode you like.

Then wouldn't it make more sense to put a topic in spvp for some semblance of that "working towards something?" Assuming that is a game mode you like. I mean if you wanted to farm gear (which I don't know why you bring it up considering small man WvW is a terrible way to do it given anything PvE is superior).

D:

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I think I got it. It's the mindset everyone has. everyone thinks dying is too much of a hassle that they'd rather stand around inside a tower and wait for a zerg rather than engaging in fights.

Most people you see in WvW are using Zerg Builds.

These builds cannot win against roaming builds.

They are not designed for it.

Why should a zergling on a zergbuild fight against a roamer with a 1v1 build?