Everyone just runs away in WVW

[DeceiverX.8361]

@XenesisII.1540 said:How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

Because when you have two people like the OP mentions, you can only dismount one, while the other mounted person gets free impossible-to-outrun movespeed, several thousand free bonus health, and a free nuke/instant stomp.

Without playing shortbow thief you just can't keep up. It's literally impossible. So person 1 waits on the mount while person 2 fights, if things get bad person presses mount stomp and engages with a 4-6k damage skill and fights to let the other disengage and get OOC. Now person 2 repeats this process because if you get so much as crippled, the guy who disengages can't be CC'ed or controlled since mounts ignore all CC and control effects.

Mounts absolutely destroyed small-scale on every single front and will keep it suppressed until they have zero in-combat advantages and basically act as free swiftness.

So yeah, people are still complaining. They only benefit omniblob/ktraining and actively directly counteract any incentives to play in small groups. It's like asking why people complain about balance and profession design. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's good.

[Naxos.2503]

If I want a good, small scale scrap, I generally hit PvP, or I hit camps while making my presence known to the nearby tower by tagging it (kill the guards, Knock on the door). Now the main problem is, they might send a guy or two, or I might just bring the whole zerg on me, depending on how active My server's zerg is.

WvW is not really made for just small scale combat. It's a tactical map, where movement and capturing is more important than dueling. Zergs are armies of sort, roamers are scouts and saboteurs. Scouts and saboteurs dont generally indulge into generalized combat, because that's inconvenient to their role. They spot targets, and they cut supply line or cause distractions.

That is not to say dueling dont happen, there are spots for it. And there's Always that one newbie who think he's going to "help" one of the duelist, who promptly stops fighting, and the other duelist and his mate just destroy them.

It's not that I dont like duels, I just think a warzone is hardly the place for it. This isn't the sengoku period.

[XenesisII.1540]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

Because when you have two people like the OP mentions, you can only dismount one, while the other mounted person gets free impossible-to-outrun movespeed, several thousand free bonus health, and a free nuke/instant stomp.

Without playing shortbow thief you just can't keep up. It's literally impossible. So person 1 waits on the mount while person 2 fights, if things get bad person presses mount stomp and engages with a 4-6k damage skill and fights to let the other disengage and get OOC. Now person 2 repeats this process because if you get so much as crippled, the guy who disengages can't be CC'ed or controlled since mounts ignore all CC and control effects.

Mounts absolutely destroyed small-scale on every single front and will keep it suppressed until they have zero in-combat advantages and basically act as free swiftness.

So yeah, people are still complaining. They only benefit omniblob/ktraining and actively directly counteract any incentives to play in small groups. It's like asking why people complain about balance and profession design. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's good.

That's no excuse. You kamikaze into an outnumber fight and any number of random things can happen in every area, regardless if they're on mounts or not, another roamer could join in, a cannon can hit you, guards can join in, a fat zerg could pass by. I don't care how skilled you may think you are, or whatever broken class you're playing, that doesn't give you a free pass to just 1v1 whenever wherever you want.

Even before mounts players were "roaming" in groups, good solo roaming has been dead for years even before mounts thanks to terribad class balance, and barely anyone would bother to leave a 1v1 to itself as they'd rather get an easy bag.

So now that you've thought about a likely scenario for that fight, pick better fights, choose a better area to engage, and keep note of possible escapes when things go wrong, which you should be doing for every single fight you get into in wvw. Everyone picks their fights these days, you can thank years of bad balance, the mounts, and salty nuts who always come back with friends for it all.

[Dawdler.8521]

@XenesisII.1540 said:You kamikaze into an outnumber fight and any number of random things can happen in every areaVictory, death, polygamous marriage, who knows.

[Taobella.6597]

most roaming these days is 5 man groups lol

[AliamRationem.5172]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

Because when you have two people like the OP mentions, you can only dismount one, while the other mounted person gets free impossible-to-outrun movespeed, several thousand free bonus health, and a free nuke/instant stomp.

Without playing shortbow thief you just can't keep up. It's literally impossible. So person 1 waits on the mount while person 2 fights, if things get bad person presses mount stomp and engages with a 4-6k damage skill and fights to let the other disengage and get OOC. Now person 2 repeats this process because if you get so much as crippled, the guy who disengages can't be CC'ed or controlled since mounts ignore all CC and control effects.

Mounts absolutely destroyed small-scale on every single front and will keep it suppressed until they have zero in-combat advantages and basically act as free swiftness.

So yeah, people are still complaining. They only benefit omniblob/ktraining and actively directly counteract any incentives to play in small groups. It's like asking why people complain about balance and profession design. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's good.

This is such a nonsense scenario. If you can't put that guy down 1v1 in short order, then how would you have stood a chance 1v2 in the first place? Does the mount really matter at that point? Now, if you are good enough to potentially win that 1v2, then the fact that the second player stayed on the mount rather than helping out right from the get go is likely to your advantage. You can down the first guy before the second guy realizes this isn't going to be as easy as they thought, then possibly bait them into trying for a revive and win an outnumbered fight due to overconfidence. Now that does happen all the time!

[HowlKamui.5120]

Thanks for all the replies. I am approaching WvW with a different mindset and I'm enjoying it a bit better. There was also a "primetime" earlier which wasn't organized and it was a zerg vs zerg but people were not balling up and there was a line of attrition, where you could try diving to kill someone then blink back out (was using my mirage this time). Was really fun.

[acidic.4356]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

Because when you have two people like the OP mentions, you can only dismount one, while the other mounted person gets free impossible-to-outrun movespeed, several thousand free bonus health, and a free nuke/instant stomp.

Without playing shortbow thief you just can't keep up. It's literally impossible. So person 1 waits on the mount while person 2 fights, if things get bad person presses mount stomp and engages with a 4-6k damage skill and fights to let the other disengage and get OOC. Now person 2 repeats this process because if you get so much as crippled, the guy who disengages can't be CC'ed or controlled since mounts ignore all CC and control effects.

Mounts absolutely destroyed small-scale on every single front and will keep it suppressed until they have zero in-combat advantages and basically act as free swiftness.

So yeah, people are still complaining. They only benefit omniblob/ktraining and actively directly counteract any incentives to play in small groups. It's like asking why people complain about balance and profession design. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's good.

perfectly said, every other person that asks "why are ppl still complaining about mounts" can be directed to this, altho i doubt theyl get it since they seem stuck in their own universe of "ooo mounts are great" "wow new skin for my mount, shiny"

[Sovereign.1093]

I want a super adventure mount skin

[DanAlcedo.3281]

@"mikdepadua.8376" said:Thanks for all the replies. I am approaching WvW with a different mindset and I'm enjoying it a bit better. There was also a "primetime" earlier which wasn't organized and it was a zerg vs zerg but people were not balling up and there was a line of attrition, where you could try diving to kill someone then blink back out (was using my mirage this time). Was really fun.

There are always slacker in big zergs that you can just snack up.

Some people watch youtube/twitch while blindly following a tag. Sometimes they stay behind enough to kill them without the zerg turning around.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Taobella.6597 said:most roaming these days is 50 man groups lolFixed.

[Strider.7849]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I've been playing sPVP for a while and recently started doing some world vs world. I also play ESO for reference btw. Everything in GW2 is better than ESO in all aspects (the responsiveness of the game/ the mechanics/ the classes) except for one: no one wants to fight in WVW as compared to cyrodiil. Everyone just runs away, or fights you for a while before porting back in their towers.

Everyone just seems to just want to zerg. Don't get me wrong, ball groups are fun and all, but i want small scale fights or duels while roaming the map. Am I doing something wrong here?

That's weird. Are you ganking lonners with 5 other allies? I don't have any trouble finding 1V1 against thiefs, warriors or reapers.

Not necessarily, I've had times where small groups of people would flee from me to the safety of a tower or around many guards in an RI camp. Yes you can get 1v1's, but the many fights people will engage in is where they have 100% confidence that they have no chance of losing, even if they outnumber you to begin with. With that being said everyone's experience is different based on your server/tier etc. The most fun I've had was fighting against and with Maguuma. Tagless zergs, people there tend to not be afraid of fighting/dying. Then servers like blackgate I found to be mostly cowards, roaming in meta comp builds/groups who focus solo players exclusively. There's everything in-between. Anyways my point is that the OP concerns aren't invalid based on what he's encountering.

[Caedmon.6798]

The only reason is because people are cowards and only want to engage in a fight knowing they can win it,meaning outnumbering you. People do not want a challenge in wvw,they just pretend. Roaming died long ago,it turned into a bunch of baddies running around with 5 Fb's for support.

[Sovereign.1093]

We don't have to play by your rules is the theme ppl need to understand.

[Bish.8627]

Go cap camps and be a general annoyance tagging keeps, you will soon get fights. Some classes are just plain boring and frustrating to fight, sword thieves, mesmers, rapid fire rangers. Tons of imob, escapes, boons it really isn't fun. But if you are tagging stuff, doing actual WvW objectives, people will have a reason to engage.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@acidic.4356 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

Because when you have two people like the OP mentions, you can only dismount one, while the other mounted person gets free impossible-to-outrun movespeed, several thousand free bonus health, and a free nuke/instant stomp.

Without playing shortbow thief you just can't keep up. It's literally impossible. So person 1 waits on the mount while person 2 fights, if things get bad person presses mount stomp and engages with a 4-6k damage skill and fights to let the other disengage and get OOC. Now person 2 repeats this process because if you get so much as crippled, the guy who disengages can't be CC'ed or controlled since mounts ignore all CC and control effects.

Mounts absolutely destroyed small-scale on every single front and will keep it suppressed until they have zero in-combat advantages and basically act as free swiftness.

So yeah, people are still complaining. They only benefit omniblob/ktraining and actively directly counteract any incentives to play in small groups. It's like asking why people complain about balance and profession design. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's good.

perfectly said, every other person that asks "why are ppl still complaining about mounts" can be directed to this, altho i doubt theyl get it since they seem stuck in their own universe of "ooo mounts are great" "wow new skin for my mount, shiny"

Well, that's odd. I'm strictly a roamer. I run solo or with a friend. And I pretty much hated WvW until the warclaw because I hate zerg play and can't stand running around on foot for 20 minutes looking for a fight! The warclaw, as pretty as its skins may be, makes WvW tolerable for roamers like myself because it greatly reduces the amount of time spent walking around!

Also, you can see my reply to that "perfectly said" post. It's just nonsense.

[schloumou.3982]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

And I pretty much hated WvW until the warclaw because I hate zerg play and can't stand running around on foot for 20 minutes looking for a fight!

Cheers. Finally you can mountleap over the map for an hour without getting a single good fight...

[AliamRationem.5172]

@schloumou.3982 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:

And I pretty much hated WvW until the warclaw because I hate zerg play and can't stand running around on foot for 20 minutes looking for a fight!

Cheers. Finally you can mountleap over the map for an hour without getting a single good fight...

Well, I wasn't playing WvW to tell how it was prior to warclaw beyond the few Gifts of Battle I farmed for legendary crafting, so I lack a frame of reference for that. However, I roam solo or in a pair pretty much daily now and it does not seem that empty to me. I also have seen times where it's too busy and I can't find any smaller groups. There seems to be a bit of a sweet spot where you'll find the sort of fights a solo roamer can dig into. But, of course, that is subjective.

Maybe I should just show you? I logged in this morning and recorded this in my first 30 minutes. Despite it being a weekday morning, there didn't seem to be any shortage of players about. I killed a scourge and weaver, twice each. I killed a soulbeast, a mirage, and a dragonhunter, got a camp defense, and stole a sentry capture all in a span of 7 minutes. It seems to be working as intended, by my reckoning.

[schloumou.3982]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:There seems to be a bit of a sweet spot where you'll find the sort of fights a solo roamer can dig into. But, of course, that is subjective.

Agree. I wasn't talking about lack of players but the quality of fights. Engagement/disengagement dynamics , place , responsetimes, skill/build/mentality of opponents and stuff. For me personaly it's neither a very fun fight when i stomp some staff-weavers/zerg-necs/justdoingdaily-folks nor when i get chased over the whole map by 12+ of them on mounts. I just don't meet a lot of people that enjoy smallscale/dueling anymore on either side and my guess is because the gamemode developed into a direction that crippled that playstyle more and more for quite some time now.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@schloumou.3982 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:There seems to be a bit of a sweet spot where you'll find the sort of fights a solo roamer can dig into. But, of course, that is subjective.

Agree. I wasn't talking about lack of players but the quality of fights. Engagement/disengagement dynamics , place , responsetimes, skill/build/mentality of opponents and stuff. For me personaly it's neither a very fun fight when i stomp some staff-weavers/zerg-necs/justdoingdaily-folks nor when i get chased over the whole map by 12+ of them on mounts. I just don't meet a lot of people that enjoy smallscale/dueling anymore on either side and my guess is because the gamemode developed into a direction that crippled that playstyle more and more for quite some time now.

I'm very "anything goes" when it comes to WvW. I am not here for fair fights. I love a duel against a skilled opponent, but I'll take a fight for my life against 5 or 6 inexperienced/non-roamer players if that's what comes my way! And if sometimes that means I'm roadkill to a passing zerg, well, that's okay, too! Part of the charm for me is just going out there, looking for trouble and finding it!

I encounter skilled roamers a lot, too. And in my experience, when you cross paths with a worthy opponent who is also a roamer, they aren't shy. They want to see what you've got! I have a video up from earlier this week where I encountered Hobo from vT, who was also solo roaming and we fought a lengthy 1v1.

Is it the same as back in the day? How should I know? I've only been doing WvW since a little before the warclaw came out. But it feels good to me. I get plenty of action. There are slow times, but it's really been better since the 2/25 patch for me. I don't know how much of that is the patch and how much of that is stay-at-home orders, but it's been good. Solo roamers, experienced smallscale roaming groups, roving bands of overconfident noobs, steamrolling zergs who love to run you over on their way to supply. You name it, I am seeing it!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

[Sovereign.1093]

The mechanics is simple but remember there Isa human behind the player. You got to outsmart them

[Teratus.2859]

Oh man should have seen the complete and utter Sh**show WvW was in tonight.

Blues Reds, and Greens standing around together while blobs fight, my own team just letting sh** get captured and doing nothing about it.

Last straw was a Blue Deadeye single me out (while standing among my own group btw) ambush and down me.. my own then group ran off and left me and then a green stomped me.. then the blue Deadeye and the green jumped about together and didn't fight..

I dunno wtf is going on in wvw tonight but all maps were full and the game mode was unplayable because of what I suspect is several large WvW guilds accross multiple teams taking over the whole gamemode and having their allies on enemy team murder their own servermates who are not part of their guild or something so they can all fight together :S I dunno that's the best I could come up with to explain it.

Anyhow will be glad to never see any of these players again, go play PvP if you want to fight your friends, don't take over a whole game mode like a bunch of selfish jerks.

[zinkz.7045]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

There might have been 'dread' if one stepped out on a necromancer, but if one stepped out on thief (and to varying extents Mesmer, Ranger, Warrior, etc) there was very little 'dread', just a lack of risk vs reward, which PvE players who wanted to pretend "PvP" with little worry, loved.

[kash.9213]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

There might have been 'dread' if one stepped out on a necromancer, but if one stepped out on thief (and to varying extents Mesmer, Ranger, Warrior, etc) there was very little 'dread', just a lack of risk vs reward,

which PvE players who wanted to pretend "PvP" with little worry, loved.

If they were all pve players only pretending to pvp we wouldn't see countless nerf threads. There might be some lack of risk vs reward but some classes just have a nice combination of cool looking animations with more the ability to respond to a risk than consistently mitigating it and will attract players who want to be more deliberate. There are some broken builds and some classes or specs are kind of bleh at some stuff but if those classes you listed lacked risk vs reward you'd be playing them in blobs.