Everyone just runs away in WVW

[Sansar.1302]

Why dont you zerglings make another build and gear and switch builds ? after gear and build templates that would be 1 press of button

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

@mikdepadua.8376 said:I've been playing sPVP for a while and recently started doing some world vs world. I also play ESO for reference btw. Everything in GW2 is better than ESO in all aspects (the responsiveness of the game/ the mechanics/ the classes) except for one: no one wants to fight in WVW as compared to cyrodiil. Everyone just runs away, or fights you for a while before porting back in their towers.

Everyone just seems to just want to zerg. Don't get me wrong, ball groups are fun and all, but i want small scale fights or duels while roaming the map. Am I doing something wrong here?

I really want to enjoy WVW GW2, because I like every single aspect of this game over ESO except the large scale pvp experience (which is the most important game mode for me), so advice would be nice.

Delete mounts

[Junkpile.7439]

@Sansar.1302 said:Why dont you zerglings make another build and gear and switch builds ? after gear and build templates that would be 1 press of buttonBecause you have 3 slots. What kind of amateur doesn't have 3 blob fight builds?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@"briggah.7910" said:im gonna say it. warclaw made small scale fights harder to have. as someone who spent 90% of his time solo roaming it is much harder to get fun fights because you engage someone and 3 more warclaw players come along. you get downed in a fight you get warclaw stomped. you kill someone in a camp and 4 more warclaws come to help defend it.

you might as well be like everyone else and spam buttons in 50+ man blobs. also linkings killed smaller tiers that were more small scaled fights. now you get bad links and get stuck in tier 4 but are outnumbered 20 hours out the day

Yep. The PvE casuals are the ones that finally "won" WvW. They can now jump in and do dailies as safe as can be.

yeah, because of you running somewhere and being ganked by 3 people, flashing some toxic guild tag, is so much fun, right?

Warclaw made wvw a lot less toxic. Of course, the talentless outnumber-and-curbstomp-newbies-and-or-zerglings are complaining - let them complain. The more THOSE complain the better for the game.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

I find that there are plenty of players willing to have a go at a lone roamer and don't feel I'm being robbed of fights as a result of the warclaw. In my opinion, the time I save by not running around on foot is well worth the few fights I miss out on because I fail to dismount an opponent. Honestly, I am not that interested in fighting opponents who aren't interested in fighting anyway. More often than not I don't even use the spear. I just dismount and let the enemy choose. I find a lot of people are down to fight!

Having said that, I would be fine with the spear simply becoming an automatic dismount for both players with no chance of evade. For that matter, get rid of downstate! Pretty please?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

I find that there are plenty of players willing to have a go at a lone roamer and don't feel I'm being robbed of fights as a result of the warclaw. In my opinion, the time I save by not running around on foot is well worth the few fights I miss out on because I fail to dismount an opponent. Honestly, I am not that interested in fighting opponents who aren't interested in fighting anyway. More often than not I don't even use the spear. I just dismount and let the enemy choose. I find a lot of people are down to fight!

Having said that, I would be fine with the spear simply becoming an automatic dismount for both players with no chance of evade. For that matter, get rid of downstate! Pretty please?

I get what ur saying, still the feeling was different when u stepped out into the wild before warclaw.

[kash.9213]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

I find that there are plenty of players willing to have a go at a lone roamer and don't feel I'm being robbed of fights as a result of the warclaw. In my opinion, the time I save by not running around on foot is well worth the few fights I miss out on because I fail to dismount an opponent. Honestly, I am not that interested in fighting opponents who aren't interested in fighting anyway. More often than not I don't even use the spear. I just dismount and let the enemy choose. I find a lot of people are down to fight!

Having said that, I would be fine with the spear simply becoming an automatic dismount for both players with no chance of evade. For that matter, get rid of downstate! Pretty please?

I get what ur saying, still the feeling was different when u stepped out into the wild before warclaw.

I think part of that feeling is that the warclaw can dictate the opening sequence of a fight now, not just with the spear or evades but with the positioning, leading, and dismounting. Sometimes you can feel it early on that this engage is going to get messy. I like having mounts in WvW apart from the mount stomp but sometimes a stretch of the map can look like a David Attenborough narrated scene with packs of wild animals stalking and flexing to see who's going to mess up the engage first or making sure a blob doesn't drop in right when you dismount.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

Because when you have two people like the OP mentions, you can only dismount one, while the other mounted person gets free impossible-to-outrun movespeed, several thousand free bonus health, and a free nuke/instant stomp.

Without playing shortbow thief you just can't keep up. It's literally impossible. So person 1 waits on the mount while person 2 fights, if things get bad person presses mount stomp and engages with a 4-6k damage skill and fights to let the other disengage and get OOC. Now person 2 repeats this process because if you get so much as crippled, the guy who disengages can't be CC'ed or controlled since mounts ignore all CC and control effects.

Mounts absolutely destroyed small-scale on every single front and will keep it suppressed until they have zero in-combat advantages and basically act as free swiftness.

So yeah, people are still complaining. They only benefit omniblob/ktraining and actively directly counteract any incentives to play in small groups. It's like asking why people complain about balance and profession design. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's good.

That's no excuse. You kamikaze into an outnumber fight and any number of random things can happen in every area, regardless if they're on mounts or not, another roamer could join in, a cannon can hit you, guards can join in, a fat zerg could pass by. I don't care how skilled you may think you are, or whatever broken class you're playing, that doesn't give you a free pass to just 1v1 whenever wherever you want.

Even before mounts players were "roaming" in groups, good solo roaming has been dead for years even before mounts thanks to terribad class balance, and barely anyone would bother to leave a 1v1 to itself as they'd rather get an easy bag.

So now that you've thought about a likely scenario for that fight, pick better fights, choose a better area to engage, and keep note of possible escapes when things go wrong, which you should be doing for every single fight you get into in wvw. Everyone picks their fights these days, you can thank years of bad balance, the mounts, and salty nuts who always come back with friends for it all.

Problem is managing a 1v2 is usually done in two ways, forcing engagements and providing largely AoE damage, or forcing bad positioning and leveraging CC and cooldown advantages (I.E., they both used a skill and exploiting the openings), mobility to reset, and/or just keeping the other player at bay or locked into a fight depending on your class. 1vX isn't a damage race and it's why classes like thief, mesmer, and ranger almost always on their lower-damage, high-sustain/interruption/mobility builds (D/P SA thief, S/D Acro thief, condi mesmer/offtank Chrono, boonbunker Druid and Soulbeast, etc.) have the better 1vX gameplay. It's rarely a "go in and blow targets up so fast they can't react" gameplay pattern. If it was, we'd have seen D/D thief and power shatter core mesmer and A/A warrior all over the place the past few years.

The problem with mounts is you can't manage the mounted player. They have total agency of the fight, and their mount skill provides so much damage it alone can decide health trades and prioritize engages. There's no interrupting their engage, or their supportive skills, fixing their positioning, providing chip damage, resetting the fight, or anything like that.

Yeah if you throw yourself into a 1v2 and bring nothing to the table at all except playing DPS rush like PvE then sure, you'll have no advantages, but battlefield control is destroyed by mounted players and can quickly turn a fight with fast engage/re-engage on classes and builds which otherwise would be unable to do so.

[Shroud.2307]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

I find that there are plenty of players willing to have a go at a lone roamer and don't feel I'm being robbed of fights as a result of the warclaw. In my opinion, the time I save by not running around on foot is well worth the few fights I miss out on because I fail to dismount an opponent. Honestly, I am not that interested in fighting opponents who aren't interested in fighting anyway. More often than not I don't even use the spear. I just dismount and let the enemy choose. I find a lot of people are down to fight!

Having said that, I would be fine with the spear simply becoming an automatic dismount for both players with no chance of evade. For that matter, get rid of downstate! Pretty please?

Having read a lot of your comments, I like your attitude and share a lot of your opinions.

It's okay to make suggestions and to be upset because you're passionate about something, which is what many do here on the forums. The majority however prefer to whine, be negative and unreasonable, and blatantly lie.

I get it, I've been playing for well over 6 years, not since beta, but I've been around to experience every major era in WvW. It's getting stagnant and people are getting frustrated. But all it takes is looking at things as they are and understanding it's just a freaking game - it provides relief for people who have an immense amount of stress in their lives so it can be very important to some ( I'm one of those ), but the sooner people start accepting things as they are and adapting to changes as they come, the sooner those same people will stop being so angry all the time.

I like to float around and be a pest. I still roam the same way today I did years ago. I PvE stuff taking upgraded camps, killing siege in objectives, tapping Waypoints, trying to solo open towers, etc. I love a good fight when I find it but if I don't 99% of the time it puts me in a bad mood because I went looking. If people want to fight, they will. I'm not interested in people who have the mechanical skill of an ambient creature and I'm not going to chase a roamer I'd have beaten if they committed to me - I just let them know I'm not going to play the who can OOC the most game and I'll run the other direction as soon as they drop combat.

I see it like this; roaming has worsened for a variety of reasons but GW2 combat is still the best on the market and I'm willing to change my game play to keep enjoying that.

Kudos to the people who are reasonable enough to keep having fun and not acting like they're always the victims like the both of you, @AliamRationem.5172 and @Psycoprophet.8107 among others.

[Shroud.2307]

@kash.9213 said:I like having mounts in WvW apart from the mount stomp but sometimes a stretch of the map can look like a David Attenborough narrated scene with packs of wild animals stalking and flexing to see who's going to mess up the engage first or making sure a blob doesn't drop in right when you dismount.

Fucking lmfao, literally lol'd at that description, well put.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

Because when you have two people like the OP mentions, you can only dismount one, while the other mounted person gets free impossible-to-outrun movespeed, several thousand free bonus health, and a free nuke/instant stomp.

Without playing shortbow thief you just can't keep up. It's literally impossible. So person 1 waits on the mount while person 2 fights, if things get bad person presses mount stomp and engages with a 4-6k damage skill and fights to let the other disengage and get OOC. Now person 2 repeats this process because if you get so much as crippled, the guy who disengages can't be CC'ed or controlled since mounts ignore all CC and control effects.

Mounts absolutely destroyed small-scale on every single front and will keep it suppressed until they have zero in-combat advantages and basically act as free swiftness.

So yeah, people are still complaining. They only benefit omniblob/ktraining and actively directly counteract any incentives to play in small groups. It's like asking why people complain about balance and profession design. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's good.

That's no excuse. You kamikaze into an outnumber fight and any number of random things can happen in every area, regardless if they're on mounts or not, another roamer could join in, a cannon can hit you, guards can join in, a fat zerg could pass by. I don't care how skilled you may think you are, or whatever broken class you're playing, that doesn't give you a free pass to just 1v1 whenever wherever you want.

Even before mounts players were "roaming" in groups, good solo roaming has been dead for years even before mounts thanks to terribad class balance, and barely anyone would bother to leave a 1v1 to itself as they'd rather get an easy bag.

So now that you've thought about a likely scenario for that fight, pick better fights, choose a better area to engage, and keep note of possible escapes when things go wrong, which you should be doing for every single fight you get into in wvw. Everyone picks their fights these days, you can thank years of bad balance, the mounts, and salty nuts who always come back with friends for it all.

Problem is managing a 1v2 is usually done in two ways, forcing engagements and providing largely AoE damage, or forcing bad positioning and leveraging CC and cooldown advantages (I.E., they both used a skill and exploiting the openings), mobility to reset, and/or just keeping the other player at bay or locked into a fight depending on your class. 1vX isn't a damage race and it's why classes like thief, mesmer, and ranger almost always on their lower-damage, high-sustain/interruption/mobility builds (D/P SA thief, S/D Acro thief, condi mesmer/offtank Chrono, boonbunker Druid and Soulbeast, etc.) have the better 1vX gameplay. It's rarely a "go in and blow targets up so fast they can't react" gameplay pattern. If it was, we'd have seen D/D thief and power shatter core mesmer and A/A warrior all over the place the past few years.

The problem with mounts is you

can't

manage the mounted player. They have total agency of the fight, and their mount skill provides so much damage it alone can decide health trades and prioritize engages. There's no interrupting their engage, or their supportive skills, fixing their positioning, providing chip damage, resetting the fight, or anything like that.

Yeah if you throw yourself into a 1v2 and bring nothing to the table at all except playing DPS rush like PvE then sure, you'll have no advantages, but battlefield control is destroyed by mounted players and can quickly turn a fight with fast engage/re-engage on classes and builds which otherwise would be unable to do so.

This is a specious argument. Yes, you lose battlefield control if the second player remains mounted to prevent you from disengaging. However, that control comes at a cost of that player remaining out of the fight. You really have to ask yourself how were you going to win that fight if you were so ineffective 1v1 that the second player felt the better strategy was to prevent you from escaping rather than jumping in to help!

I've played high mobility/stealth roamers. It's great to be able to disengage and escape from fights when they go badly. But as a roamer, I just don't understand how we can blame the warclaw for killing roaming on the basis that it prevents roamers from endlessly disengaging. I look at that ability to disengage freely as something that really shouldn't exist and is more likely to kill roaming than things like the warclaw, which may actually help to counter that free disengagement (but don't really, in my experience). Is this really what you're saying or am I misunderstanding the argument?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

I find that there are plenty of players willing to have a go at a lone roamer and don't feel I'm being robbed of fights as a result of the warclaw. In my opinion, the time I save by not running around on foot is well worth the few fights I miss out on because I fail to dismount an opponent. Honestly, I am not that interested in fighting opponents who aren't interested in fighting anyway. More often than not I don't even use the spear. I just dismount and let the enemy choose. I find a lot of people are down to fight!

Having said that, I would be fine with the spear simply becoming an automatic dismount for both players with no chance of evade. For that matter, get rid of downstate! Pretty please?

Having read a lot of your comments, I like your attitude and share a lot of your opinions.

It's okay to make suggestions and to be upset because you're passionate about something, which is what many do here on the forums. The majority however prefer to whine, be negative and unreasonable, and blatantly lie.

I get it, I've been playing for well over 6 years, not since beta, but I've been around to experience every major era in WvW. It's getting stagnant and people are getting frustrated. But all it takes is looking at things as they are and understanding it's just a freaking game - it provides relief for people who have an immense amount of stress in their lives so it can be very important to some ( I'm one of those ), but the sooner people start accepting things as they are and adapting to changes as they come, the sooner those same people will stop being so angry all the time.

I like to float around and be a pest. I still roam the same way today I did years ago. I PvE stuff taking upgraded camps, killing siege in objectives, tapping Waypoints, trying to solo open towers, etc. I love a good fight when I find it but if I don't 99% of the time it puts me in a bad mood because I went looking. If people want to fight, they will. I'm not interested in people who have the mechanical skill of an ambient creature and I'm not going to chase a roamer I'd have beaten if they committed to me - I just let them know I'm not going to play the who can OOC the most game and I'll run the other direction as soon as they drop combat.

I see it like this; roaming has worsened for a variety of reasons but GW2 combat is still the best on the market and I'm willing to change my game play to keep enjoying that.

Kudos to the people who are reasonable enough to keep having fun and not acting like they're always the victims like the both of you, @AliamRationem.5172 and @Psycoprophet.8107 among others.

Awww so people not sharing the same views on warclaw are wrong and playing the victims lmao grow up.

I don't know if you misunderstood but I was saying you

weren't

one of those.

And no, I'm saying too many are being narrow minded and not welcoming change.

Ahh yeah I did miss understand, sry bout that.

[Dawdler.8521]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:But as a roamer, I just don't understand how we can blame the warclaw for killing roaming on the basis that it prevents roamers from endlessly disengaging.Well its easy to understand every such argument - people havent a clue what they want. If combat is too slow, they complain. If combat is too fast, they complain. If power is too strong, they want it nerfed. When power is nerfed, they complain about condi. When condi is nerfed, they realize power is still just as strong as berore it was nerfed. When warclaw is too fast, people want it slowed down or it ruins the game. When warclaw is slowed down, its ruined the game. When no one caps objectives because walls are too strong, people want it nerfed. When walls are nerfed, people say its too easy to cap objectives. Etc and so on.

TL;DR blame everything.

[Sovereign.1093]

Tactical retreat is a thing. It is like strategy, you got to outsmart your opponent and make them fall into your trap.

[HowlKamui.5120]

Wow I never thought this thread was going to have this much discussion. I only mentioned mounts as being too useful/forgiving based on my short experience trying to fight people not in a zerg, and I'm surprised that a lot of people share the same opinion.

Anywho, I've been having a lot of fun fights recently thanks to some useful tips from some people here. I've been capturing camps, and roaming the streets in between a fight and a spawn, and I found a better timespan of when to play for more active people (not blobs). Because i'm positioning much more dangerously I found myself gravitating towards my condi mirage for a harder disengage that can keep up with my soulbeast friend.

I love chaotic and disorganized fights and how I wish I experienced WvW pre-mount.

[Sovereign.1093]

There be always ways. It's like space, it's vast, you got choices.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Sovereign.1093 said:There be always ways. It's like space, it's vast, you got choices.What do you mean, everyone knows that if a spaceship is sieging a planet your only option to is to attack it because there is no way around.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:There be always ways. It's like space, it's vast, you got choices.What do you mean, everyone knows that if a spaceship is sieging a planet your only option to is to attack it because there is no way around.

No. I mean you have a lot of choices on how to play and use strategy.

[acidic.4356]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@acidic.4356 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:How are people still complaining about mounts when you have a button to dismount people....

Because when you have two people like the OP mentions, you can only dismount one, while the other mounted person gets free impossible-to-outrun movespeed, several thousand free bonus health, and a free nuke/instant stomp.

Without playing shortbow thief you just can't keep up. It's literally impossible. So person 1 waits on the mount while person 2 fights, if things get bad person presses mount stomp and engages with a 4-6k damage skill and fights to let the other disengage and get OOC. Now person 2 repeats this process because if you get so much as crippled, the guy who disengages can't be CC'ed or controlled since mounts ignore all CC and control effects.

Mounts absolutely destroyed small-scale on every single front and will keep it suppressed until they have zero in-combat advantages and basically act as free swiftness.

So yeah, people are still complaining. They only benefit omniblob/ktraining and actively directly counteract any incentives to play in small groups. It's like asking why people complain about balance and profession design. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's good.

perfectly said, every other person that asks "why are ppl still complaining about mounts" can be directed to this, altho i doubt theyl get it since they seem stuck in their own universe of "ooo mounts are great" "wow new skin for my mount, shiny"

Well, that's odd. I'm strictly a roamer. I run solo or with a friend. And I pretty much hated WvW until the warclaw because I hate zerg play and can't stand running around on foot for 20 minutes looking for a fight! The warclaw, as pretty as its skins may be, makes WvW tolerable for roamers like myself because it greatly reduces the amount of time spent walking around!

Also, you can see my reply to that "perfectly said" post. It's just nonsense.

reading ur posts seems like ur argument is purely based on getting around, which i dont mind , especially since they nerfed the speed of mounts, if u could only understand its the other stuff that comes with mounts - hp - mount stomp and damage..... from what you yourself said in your own posts, you want mount for getting around, and thats all mounts should be.... this is fine with me. I want the other shit took away, plz understand this.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:There be always ways. It's like space, it's vast, you got choices.What do you mean, everyone knows that if a spaceship is sieging a planet your only option to is to attack it because there is no way around.

No. I mean you have a lot of choices on how to play and use strategy.... Push?

[Sovereign.1093]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:There be always ways. It's like space, it's vast, you got choices.What do you mean, everyone knows that if a spaceship is sieging a planet your only option to is to attack it because there is no way around.

No. I mean you have a lot of choices on how to play and use strategy.... Push?

Depends. Push bait surprise choke run . So many. You'll know once the opportunity is present

Siege port etc. Banner whisper mind games

[Lillbryschan.3281]

@Ubi.4136 said:

@"mikdepadua.8376" said:We're mostly 2 people (my brother and I). I think mounts are a big offender of why small scale fighting doesnt happen

The reason small scale doesn't happen is because the game has two groups left. Zergers, who want to zerg, and veterans who know that your 1v1 or even 2v2 is really just you trying to bait 1 -2 people into a group of 5-10. And even if you didn't set out with that idea in mind, we know that as soon as we engage you 2v2, the blob server you play on will have 10 people just "appear" and there goes the "fight".

^ This!

[Mauzi.5892]

@Junkpile.7439 said:

@Sansar.1302 said:Why dont you zerglings make another build and gear and switch builds ? after gear and build templates that would be 1 press of buttonBecause you have 3 slots. What kind of amateur doesn't have 3 blob fight builds?

You have 6 slots. What kind of amateur only has the free 3 slots?

[Svarty.8019]

@CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:Not everyone has an optimal roaming build or they just want to avoid small scale fights, due to gankers or the meta in general.

A lot of us are just playing to be social on voice comms. We're not twitchy teenagers anymore, so we can't compete in the fights, Arenanet, in their wisdom, made the game about being responsive, knowledgeable and reactive. Normal people don't want to bother learning every skill on every class and most of us can't react even if we know what's coming. So it's pointless to try. That's why, if we see enemies, we run to the relative safety of our friends.

I hope that clears this topic up forever and we never see it on the forums again. Lol.

[uberkingkong.8041]

@Ubi.4136 said:

@"mikdepadua.8376" said:We're mostly 2 people (my brother and I). I think mounts are a big offender of why small scale fighting doesnt happen

The reason small scale doesn't happen is because the game has two groups left. Zergers, who want to zerg, and veterans who know that your 1v1 or even 2v2 is really just you trying to bait 1 -2 people into a group of 5-10. And even if you didn't set out with that idea in mind, we know that as soon as we engage you 2v2, the blob server you play on will have 10 people just "appear" and there goes the "fight".

I made a thread about this.People disagree with your thoughts, they say GW2 WvW 1v1s happens and is okay.They say game needs to "focus on other things"https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/101940/when-it-comes-to-wvw-eso-does-it-better-change-my-mind/p1