Avatar.3568 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 its a stunbreak with dodge, but when you try to stunbreak and dodge you away from guys with shocking aura arround you you get instantly cc'd again makes no sense for a stunbreak with dodge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 It’s more a disengage like rifle 4 on deadeye and even traited withdraw on thief could do something similar till it was reworked. That why it’s like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaerin.8635 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Idk man, I feel like, 'when you use Lightning Reflexes right next to someone with shocking aura you get stunned again' is just such a clear-cut example of a L2P issue. Competitive ranger builds usually run three incredibly strong stunbreaks, and an elite skill that grants stab. You need to know what the enemy team has and play around it.@Eurantien.4632 said:Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thingSlapping stability on lightning reflexes so that you can evade through aoe cc's like fear walls, static fields, lines of warding, etc. would make it such a ridiculously bloated and overpowered skill. It would be a literal get out of jail free card on a 24s cd lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 @Solaerin.8635 said:Idk man, I feel like, 'when you use Lightning Reflexes right next to someone with shocking aura you get stunned again' is just such a clear-cut example of a L2P issue. Competitive ranger builds usually run three incredibly strong stunbreaks, and an elite skill that grants stab. You need to know what the enemy team has and play around it.Yes It is an l2p issue and no, it's the stunbreak to use, normaly if you know you get know stun locked and want to get out of the shit, but when an tempest arrives you get hammered from LR and your actual only escape stuns you too because they share a big amount of shocking auras wherever they are@Eurantien.4632 said:Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thingSlapping stability on lightning reflexes so that you can evade through aoe cc's like fear walls, static fields, lines of warding, etc. would make it such a ridiculously bloated and overpowered skill. It would be a literal get out of jail free card on a 24s cd lolTotal agree, that would be busted af Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Solaerin.8635 said:Idk man, I feel like, 'when you use Lightning Reflexes right next to someone with shocking aura you get stunned again' is just such a clear-cut example of a L2P issue. Competitive ranger builds usually run three incredibly strong stunbreaks, and an elite skill that grants stab. You need to know what the enemy team has and play around it.@Eurantien.4632 said:Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thingSlapping stability on lightning reflexes so that you can evade through aoe cc's like fear walls, static fields, lines of warding, etc. would make it such a ridiculously bloated and overpowered skill. It would be a literal get out of jail free card on a 24s cd lolYeah, you're right. When I wrote that I was thinking about not getting restunned and not about rings. You should 100000% get punished for LR in a ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Avatar.3568 said:its a stunbreak with dodge, but when you try to stunbreak and dodge you away from guys with shocking aura arround you you get instantly cc'd again makes no sense for a stunbreak with dodgeIt's a good point to bring up.That small damage serves no purpose other than creating auto CCs in shock aura, revealing yourself, and making you enter or stay in combat.Other similar skills don't have random small damage tagged onto them. Lightning Reflexes shouldn't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 That skill need to be reworked with most of the survival skill set.A 30s skill which only use is to remove immobilized and the condi cleanse from the GM trai, skill which has issues with the damage and the fact you have no control over where it pushes you when used is a little bit sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poelala.2830 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Avatar.3568 said:its a stunbreak with dodge, but when you try to stunbreak and dodge you away from guys with shocking aura arround you you get instantly cc'd again makes no sense for a stunbreak with dodgeIt's a good point to bring up.That small damage serves no purpose other than creating auto CCs in shock aura, revealing yourself, and making you enter or stay in combat.Other similar skills don't have random small damage tagged onto them. Lightning Reflexes shouldn't either.It absolutely should. It does so much... cleanse, dodge, breaks stun, gives fury, which gives opening strike so on and so forth. This makes it so if I land a stun on you and you’re stealthed or I have shocking aura you can’t get out of it without punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Poelala.2830 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Avatar.3568 said:its a stunbreak with dodge, but when you try to stunbreak and dodge you away from guys with shocking aura arround you you get instantly cc'd again makes no sense for a stunbreak with dodgeIt's a good point to bring up.That small damage serves no purpose other than creating auto CCs in shock aura, revealing yourself, and making you enter or stay in combat.Other similar skills don't have random small damage tagged onto them. Lightning Reflexes shouldn't either.It absolutely should. It does so much... cleanse, dodge, breaks stun, gives fury, which gives opening strike so on and so forth. This makes it so if I land a stun on you and you’re stealthed or I have shocking aura you can’t get out of it without punishment.Well I think that Shocking Aura & Aura Share already does so much that it should stun the Ele each time it stuns a player and damage the Ele a bit on each strike.I think that Core Necro sustain already does so much that when a player hits the Necro they should heal themselves a bit.I feel that every skill that works is so strong that there should be an unreasonable drawback added to it that is counter intuitive to the purpose of using the skill to begin with. Because to me, it makes sense to balance a game's mechanics this way.Look man, this is one of those issues that isn't about OP or UP. This is an issue with raw mechanical design. Kind of like when Deadeye was first released and the rifle skill bar just kind of didn't flow well.You can claim OP or UP and toss balance at it after LR is fixed imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Play.6104 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Poelala.2830 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Avatar.3568 said:its a stunbreak with dodge, but when you try to stunbreak and dodge you away from guys with shocking aura arround you you get instantly cc'd again makes no sense for a stunbreak with dodgeIt's a good point to bring up.That small damage serves no purpose other than creating auto CCs in shock aura, revealing yourself, and making you enter or stay in combat.Other similar skills don't have random small damage tagged onto them. Lightning Reflexes shouldn't either.It absolutely should. It does so much... cleanse, dodge, breaks stun, gives fury, which gives opening strike so on and so forth. This makes it so if I land a stun on you and you’re stealthed or I have shocking aura you can’t get out of it without punishment.Well I think that Shocking Aura & Aura Share already does so much that it should stun the Ele each time it stuns a player and damage the Ele a bit on each strike.I think that Core Necro sustain already does so much that when a player hits the Necro they should heal themselves a bit.I feel that every skill that works is so strong that there should be an unreasonable drawback added to it that is counter intuitive to the purpose of using the skill to begin with. Because to me, it makes sense to balance a game's mechanics this way.Look man, this is one of those issues that isn't about OP or UP. This is an issue with raw mechanical design. Kind of like when Deadeye was first released and the rifle skill bar just kind of didn't flow well.You can claim OP or UP and toss balance at it after LR is fixed imo.@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Poelala.2830 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Avatar.3568 said:its a stunbreak with dodge, but when you try to stunbreak and dodge you away from guys with shocking aura arround you you get instantly cc'd again makes no sense for a stunbreak with dodgeIt's a good point to bring up.That small damage serves no purpose other than creating auto CCs in shock aura, revealing yourself, and making you enter or stay in combat.Other similar skills don't have random small damage tagged onto them. Lightning Reflexes shouldn't either.It absolutely should. It does so much... cleanse, dodge, breaks stun, gives fury, which gives opening strike so on and so forth. This makes it so if I land a stun on you and you’re stealthed or I have shocking aura you can’t get out of it without punishment.Well I think that Shocking Aura & Aura Share already does so much that it should stun the Ele each time it stuns a player and damage the Ele a bit on each strike.I think that Core Necro sustain already does so much that when a player hits the Necro they should heal themselves a bit.I feel that every skill that works is so strong that there should be an unreasonable drawback added to it that is counter intuitive to the purpose of using the skill to begin with. Because to me, it makes sense to balance a game's mechanics this way.Look man, this is one of those issues that isn't about OP or UP. This is an issue with raw mechanical design. Kind of like when Deadeye was first released and the rifle skill bar just kind of didn't flow well.You can claim OP or UP and toss balance at it after LR is fixed imo.Mesmers should give themselves a confusion stack every time they generate an AI, port, or force a target drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just give it a longer cd :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Solaerin.8635 said:Idk man, I feel like, 'when you use Lightning Reflexes right next to someone with shocking aura you get stunned again' is just such a clear-cut example of a L2P issue. Competitive ranger builds usually run three incredibly strong stunbreaks, and an elite skill that grants stab. You need to know what the enemy team has and play around it.@"Eurantien.4632" said:Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thingSlapping stability on lightning reflexes so that you can evade through aoe cc's like fear walls, static fields, lines of warding, etc. would make it such a ridiculously bloated and overpowered skill. It would be a literal get out of jail free card on a 24s cd lolThis is NOT a L2P issue by virtue of the fact that there is no counterplay to an opponent pressing the "Shocking Aura" button: this isn't referring to "just don't attack the shocking aura guy, bro," excuses; the crux is that, if an opponent has a "shocking aura" button, tell me which in-game mechanic is going to prevent that opponent from activating it? Considering how shocking auras are often generated either instantly or in the midst of a rapidly striking, titanic AoE field which people generally attempt to outright avoid, shocking auras are things that are generally going to appear on the field with total impunity. There are no dodges, interrupts or other niche mechanics which are consistently going to stop a player from gaining a shocking aura.What this means is that if a player uses Lightning Reflexes and gets stunned from Shocking Aura, it's probably because of a coincidence rather than a misplay. In fact, I'd argue that it's more difficult to deliberately stun oneself via PBAoE on an opponent's Shocking Aura; and any real certainty within this sort of stun-loop interaction between Lightning Reflexes and Shocking Aura is probably more because the Elementalist builds which employ Shocking Aura are generally (unless the player is entirely hapless) going to just walk up to their targets and hang very close nearby through a combination of scripted movements, extra dodges and stability. Also, good luck trying to contest a point and not proccing Shocking Aura's passive.Honestly, Shocking Aura is a super braindead, passive buff which is mostly just anti-fun. It could use a more proactive re-work to its effect. Stun breaks in general, considering how they are designed to be free-fire skills, shouldn't inflict damage anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storm.3120 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Odik.4587 said:@zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.Dolyak CD increased 20 sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storm.3120 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Avatar.3568 said:@Odik.4587 said:@zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.Dolyak CD increased 20 secI know but its belong to soulbeast and it has stability+breakstun (combination of these got massively nerfed, like mantra on mesmer was 25s cd and now its 60, despite it never being used or anyone wanted to use it xD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Swagg.9236 said:@Solaerin.8635 said:Idk man, I feel like, 'when you use Lightning Reflexes right next to someone with shocking aura you get stunned again' is just such a clear-cut example of a L2P issue. Competitive ranger builds usually run three incredibly strong stunbreaks, and an elite skill that grants stab. You need to know what the enemy team has and play around it.@"Eurantien.4632" said:Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thingSlapping stability on lightning reflexes so that you can evade through aoe cc's like fear walls, static fields, lines of warding, etc. would make it such a ridiculously bloated and overpowered skill. It would be a literal get out of jail free card on a 24s cd lolThis is NOT a L2P issue by virtue of the fact that there is no counterplay to an opponent pressing the "Shocking Aura" button: this isn't referring to "just don't attack the shocking aura guy, bro," excuses; the crux is that, if an opponent has a "shocking aura" button, tell me which in-game mechanic is going to prevent that opponent from activating it? Considering how shocking auras are often generated either instantly or in the midst of a rapidly striking, titanic AoE field which people generally attempt to outright avoid, shocking auras are things that are generally going to appear on the field with total impunity. There are no dodges, interrupts or other niche mechanics which are consistently going to stop a player from gaining a shocking aura.What this means is that if a player uses Lightning Reflexes and gets stunned from Shocking Aura, it's probably because of a coincidence rather than a misplay. In fact, I'd argue that it's more difficult to deliberately stun oneself via PBAoE on an opponent's Shocking Aura; and any real certainty within this sort of stun-loop interaction between Lightning Reflexes and Shocking Aura is probably more because the Elementalist builds which employ Shocking Aura are generally (unless the player is entirely hapless) going to just walk up to their targets and hang very close nearby through a combination of scripted movements, extra dodges and stability. Also, good luck trying to contest a point and not proccing Shocking Aura's passive.Honestly, Shocking Aura is a super braindead, passive buff which is mostly just anti-fun. It could use a more proactive re-work to its effect. Stun breaks in general, considering how they are designed to be free-fire skills, shouldn't inflict damage anyway.how is it not a l2p issue when you have 2 other non triggering stunbreaks and stab elite, but you decided to lr into shocking aura which had a big tellnot like ranger has many pulsing dmg fields to trigger shocking aura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Odik.4587 said:@"zoopop.5630" said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why. Ranger does not have anything like Power Break although i have to say Mantra of Concentration increased CD in WvW seems a little bit unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @anduriell.6280 said:@Odik.4587 said:@"zoopop.5630" said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why. Ranger does not have anything like Power Break although i have to say Mantra of Concentration increased CD in WvW seems a little bit unfair. protect me such high cooldown on 24 sec, stunbreak giving protection and 4k barrier rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storm.3120 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @anduriell.6280 said:@Odik.4587 said:@zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why.You wat??????????????They are shortest 30 (24s traited) its shortest breakstuns around. (lets say, IMO, they are super strong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Odik.4587 said:@anduriell.6280 said:@Odik.4587 said:@zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why.You wat??????????????They are shortest 30 (24s traited) its shortest breakstuns around. (lets say, IMO, they are super strong)Shortest stunbreak is still berserker Kappa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Tharan.9085 said:@Odik.4587 said:@anduriell.6280 said:@Odik.4587 said:@zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why.You wat??????????????They are shortest 30 (24s traited) its shortest breakstuns around. (lets say, IMO, they are super strong)Shortest stunbreak is still berserker Kappainclusing energy regen rev still beats headbutt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Koen.1327 said:@Tharan.9085 said:@Odik.4587 said:@anduriell.6280 said:@Odik.4587 said:@zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why.You wat??????????????They are shortest 30 (24s traited) its shortest breakstuns around. (lets say, IMO, they are super strong)Shortest stunbreak is still berserker Kappainclusing energy regen rev still beats headbuttWasnt talking about headbutt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Tharan.9085 said:@Koen.1327 said:@Tharan.9085 said:@Odik.4587 said:@anduriell.6280 said:@Odik.4587 said:@zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why.You wat??????????????They are shortest 30 (24s traited) its shortest breakstuns around. (lets say, IMO, they are super strong)Shortest stunbreak is still berserker Kappainclusing energy regen rev still beats headbuttWasnt talking about headbuttah yes you said berserker indeed, but rev cds still shorter :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 @Koen.1327 said:@Tharan.9085 said:@Koen.1327 said:@Tharan.9085 said:@Odik.4587 said:@anduriell.6280 said:@Odik.4587 said:@zoopop.5630 said:Just give it a longer cd :)LR is insanely good. I'd love to have that one on mesmer/mirage even w/o a trait that ranger have.In fact, when most of classes got CD increase on stunbreaks, ranger stunbreaks werent touched (kek) and QZ cd was decreased, h e h.that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why.You wat??????????????They are shortest 30 (24s traited) its shortest breakstuns around. (lets say, IMO, they are super strong)Shortest stunbreak is still berserker Kappainclusing energy regen rev still beats headbuttWasnt talking about headbuttah yes you said berserker indeed, but rev cds still shorter :)Well, technically true but in practice berserker has the lowest cd stunbreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now