remove dmg from lightning reflexes

[Mega.5791]

Just a side note: Shocking aura stun has an iCD of 2s. So you needed to be stunned by something else to be able to be hit by Shocking aura again (assuming it is not teamfight where aura share comes into play).

Not talking about LR and aura share being problematic in general. Just an information that you don't get stunned by one single Shocking aura that quickly (Engineer's Static shield works differently however).

[Tayga.3192]

@Megametzler.5729 said:(Engineer's Static shield works differently however).

I love using guardian focus 4 into engi shield and getting permastunned

[Mega.5791]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:(Engineer's Static shield works differently however).

I love using guardian focus 4 into engi shield and getting permastunned

Yeah, and that one actually blocks for the whole duration too. But at least it isn't shared I guess.^^

So, with that skill this Lightning reflexes issue might occur. But not with a single Shocking aura.

[Tayga.3192]

@"anduriell.6280" said:that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why.Ranger has the shortest stunbreaks except for one berserker stunbreak

Ranger does not have anything like Power BreakMesmer doesn't have anything like it as well, at least I haven't seen anybody using it.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"anduriell.6280" said:that's because all ranger stunbreaks have a hefty CD already that's why.Ranger has the shortest stunbreaks except for one berserker stunbreak

Ranger does not have anything like

Power Break

Mesmer doesn't have anything like it as well, at least I haven't seen anybody using it.

what do you mean, shadow something said power break is a good skill, Im sure people jumped with joy to opportunity to use such an amazing skill.

[Swagg.9236]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Solaerin.8635 said:Idk man, I feel like, 'when you use Lightning Reflexes right next to someone with shocking aura you get stunned again' is just such a clear-cut example of a L2P issue. Competitive ranger builds usually run three incredibly strong stunbreaks, and an elite skill that grants stab. You need to know what the enemy team has and play around it.

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)

BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thing

Slapping stability on lightning reflexes so that you can evade through aoe cc's like fear walls, static fields, lines of warding, etc. would make it such a ridiculously bloated and overpowered skill. It would be a literal get out of jail free card on a 24s cd lol

This is NOT a L2P issue by virtue of the fact that there is no counterplay to an opponent pressing the "Shocking Aura" button: this isn't referring to "just don't attack the shocking aura guy, bro," excuses; the crux is that, if an opponent has a "shocking aura" button, tell me which in-game mechanic is going to prevent that opponent from activating it? Considering how shocking auras are often generated either instantly or in the midst of a rapidly striking, titanic AoE field which people generally attempt to outright avoid, shocking auras are things that are generally going to appear on the field with total impunity. There are no dodges, interrupts or other niche mechanics which are consistently going to stop a player from

gaining

a shocking aura.

What this means is that if a player uses Lightning Reflexes and gets stunned from Shocking Aura, it's probably because of a coincidence rather than a misplay. In fact, I'd argue that it's more difficult to

deliberately

stun oneself via PBAoE on an opponent's Shocking Aura; and any real certainty within this sort of stun-loop interaction between Lightning Reflexes and Shocking Aura is probably more because the Elementalist builds which employ Shocking Aura are

generally

(unless the player is

entirely

hapless) going to just walk up to their targets and hang very close nearby through a combination of scripted movements, extra dodges and stability. Also, good luck trying to contest a point and not proccing Shocking Aura's passive.

Honestly, Shocking Aura is a super braindead, passive buff which is mostly just anti-fun. It could use a more proactive re-work to its effect. Stun breaks in general, considering how they are designed to be free-fire skills, shouldn't inflict damage anyway.

how is it not a l2p issue when you have 2 other non triggering stunbreaks and stab elite, but you decided to lr into shocking aura

which had a big tell

There is generally zero tell when it comes to an opponent activating Shocking Aura (what you meant to say was that it has a high-visibility particle effect). The only Shocking Aura ability with a tell is the Air Attunement Overcharge (and generally people can mitigate that "downside" by pre-casting it and using Lightning Flash, or just by having stability); every other instance of that aura is instant. On top of this, if a Elementalist is using a build that features Shocking Aura, then that Elementalist is going to effortlessly close the gap to you or to a capture node. Only once the gap is closed will that Elementalist appropriately activate an instant Shocking Aura. Basically, if an Elementalist is going to use Shocking Aura, that Elementalist is going to use it once directly on top of you, and there is basically nothing that you can do to stop this. What this means is that anybody taking Lightning Reflexes will immediately, without question and without concession have that ability removed from their skill bar. That's not a "play" issue; it's an ability design issue in how one is utterly cut from viability in the presence of another.

If anything, the fact that you casually and without a second thought mentioned three other "more viable" options to Lightning Reflexes in the face of Shocking Aura effectively proves the OP argument for a need to change LR's design. "You took the wrong skill lol," is not bound to player execution. If it's not an aspect of active, on-going combat, then it's not a "play" issue. LR being hard-countered by Shocking Aura is something determined before the game even begins, and that situation cannot be circumvented by active gameplay.

[Solaerin.8635]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Solaerin.8635 said:Idk man, I feel like, 'when you use Lightning Reflexes right next to someone with shocking aura you get stunned again' is just such a clear-cut example of a L2P issue. Competitive ranger builds usually run three incredibly strong stunbreaks, and an elite skill that grants stab. You need to know what the enemy team has and play around it.

@"Eurantien.4632" said:Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)

BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thing

Slapping stability on lightning reflexes so that you can evade through aoe cc's like fear walls, static fields, lines of warding, etc. would make it such a ridiculously bloated and overpowered skill. It would be a literal get out of jail free card on a 24s cd lol

This is NOT a L2P issue by virtue of the fact that there is no counterplay to an opponent pressing the "Shocking Aura" button: this isn't referring to "just don't attack the shocking aura guy, bro," excuses; the crux is that, if an opponent has a "shocking aura" button, tell me which in-game mechanic is going to prevent that opponent from activating it? Considering how shocking auras are often generated either instantly or in the midst of a rapidly striking, titanic AoE field which people generally attempt to outright avoid, shocking auras are things that are generally going to appear on the field with total impunity. There are no dodges, interrupts or other niche mechanics which are consistently going to stop a player from

gaining

a shocking aura.

What this means is that if a player uses Lightning Reflexes and gets stunned from Shocking Aura, it's probably because of a coincidence rather than a misplay. In fact, I'd argue that it's more difficult to

deliberately

stun oneself via PBAoE on an opponent's Shocking Aura; and any real certainty within this sort of stun-loop interaction between Lightning Reflexes and Shocking Aura is probably more because the Elementalist builds which employ Shocking Aura are

generally

(unless the player is

entirely

hapless) going to just walk up to their targets and hang very close nearby through a combination of scripted movements, extra dodges and stability. Also, good luck trying to contest a point and not proccing Shocking Aura's passive.

Honestly, Shocking Aura is a super braindead, passive buff which is mostly just anti-fun. It could use a more proactive re-work to its effect. Stun breaks in general, considering how they are designed to be free-fire skills, shouldn't inflict damage anyway.

how is it not a l2p issue when you have 2 other non triggering stunbreaks and stab elite, but you decided to lr into shocking aura

which had a big tell

There is generally zero tell when it comes to an opponent activating Shocking Aura (what you meant to say was that it has a high-visibility particle effect). The only Shocking Aura ability with a tell is the Air Attunement Overcharge (and generally people can mitigate that "downside" by pre-casting it and using Lightning Flash, or just by having stability); every other instance of that aura is instant. On top of this, if a Elementalist is using a build that features Shocking Aura, then that Elementalist is going to effortlessly close the gap to you or to a capture node. Only once the gap is closed will that Elementalist appropriately activate an instant Shocking Aura. Basically, if an Elementalist is going to use Shocking Aura, that Elementalist is going to use it once directly on top of you, and there is basically nothing that you can do to stop this. What this means is that anybody taking Lightning Reflexes will immediately, without question and without concession have that ability removed from their skill bar. That's not a "play" issue; it's an ability design issue in how one is utterly cut from viability in the presence of another.Shocking Aura is a build-defining skill, meaning that any enemy should be incredibly mindful of it and be playing around it during a fight; it also requires an elementalist to double-attune to air (which takes several seconds) and stand directly on top of an enemy to get value from it. I don't know where people are getting this idea that there's nothing a ranger player can do but Lightning Reflexes into it. If your Lightning reflexes gets stunned by Shocking Aura, it's because you weren't thinking about Shocking Aura -- and the solution is to stop mashing.If anything, the fact that you casually and without a second thought mentioned three other "more viable" options to Lightning Reflexes in the face of Shocking Aura effectively proves the OP argument for a need to change LR's design. "You took the wrong skill lol," is not bound to player execution. If it's not an aspect of active, on-going combat, then it's not a "play" issue. LR being hard-countered by Shocking Aura is something determined before the game even begins, and that situation cannot be circumvented by active gameplay.It's not about 'taking the wrong skill'. As far as stun breaks go, a traited Lightning Reflexes is literally one of the best in the entire game -- break stun + cleanse 2 conditions + cleanse immobilize + evade + create/close gaps + 10 seconds (!!!) of vigor, all on a 24s cd. It's that your typical ranger has Lightning Reflexes, Quickening Zephyr, Protect Me, and Strength of the Pack, and the latter three skills all effectively deal with Shocking Aura without resulting in a stun.

Lightning Reflexes is 'hard-countered' by Shocking Aura the same way that 'any skill that isn't Steal' is hard-countered by Full Counter: if you use it at the wrong time you get punished.

[storm.3120]

@"Swagg.9236" said:LR being hard-countered by Shocking Aura is something determined before the game even begins, and that situation cannot be circumvented by active gameplay.So, what...? I think when I have played ranger vs lrod eles it was literally 1 time used LR into aura... because this new icons have the same damn color (which makes it hard to differ) and aura is insanely huge and god know what it is.Shocking aura counters a lot of "damage-evade" skills (when u are in range to be stunned), all of them, LR is not an exception.BF on mesmer is being mega hard countered by retal and suicidal when there is more than 1 target with it (and in 99.9% of cases they randomly had it and didnt get in on purpose except for "me spam b000nz,b000nz are g00d") and you wont realize in time that you killed himself (not like you can do much about it even). Only for thieves PISTOL WHIP was changed to 4 hits instead of 8 with the same damage (the bias from devs, lmao).If you were stunned by shocking aura you can use LR w/o being stunned because of 2s icd for a second stun, if you were stunned by Air5 and he had shocking aura... use another stunbreak?

[anduriell.6280]

@"Tayga.3192" said:

Ranger does not have anything like

Power Break

Mesmer doesn't have anything like it as well, at least I haven't seen anybody using it.Well the utility is there, you don't use is your problem.Shorter cooldown than ranger base 30s (no traited):

• Signet of Judgment 25s guardian
• Gaze of Darkness 25s rev
• Darkrazor's Daring 12s recharge rev
• Stomp 30s (warrior)
• Shake It Off! 25s (warrior)
• Utility Goggles 30s (engi)
• Bandit's Defense 30s (thief)
• Mercy 30s (thief).....And the list goes on. Not counting the traits which most of the classes except ranger have at least a couple of those.

I see you are strongly biased against the ranger but the numbers are there just use the wiki the next time.

[anduriell.6280]

@Avatar.3568 said:its a stunbreak with dodge, but when you try to stunbreak and dodge you away from guys with shocking aura arround you you get instantly cc'd again makes no sense for a stunbreak with dodge

Something like to remove the damage, add a directional arrow to choose the direction of the roll and 2s superspeed would be good for the utility.

[Tayga.3192]

@anduriell.6280 said:Well the utility is there, you don't use is your problem.There is a reason it is not used: It's extremely bad.

ListAnd the list goes on. Not counting the traits which most of the classes except ranger have at least a couple of those.

Let's see,

• Nobody uses Signet of Judgement
• Rev uses energy to stunbreak, but ok
• Nobody uses stomp
• Shake it Off has 75s cooldown btw
• Nobody uses Utility Goggles
• Nobody uses Bandit's Defense
• Mercy is fair enough
• You forgot it but Signet of Air has 25s cd, it's bad and people still use nerfed Twist of Fate on weaver and other stunbreaks in tempest/core.

Do you know why nobody uses those stunbreaks? They can't afford to waste important utility slots with nearly no effect stunbreaks, unlike ranger who gets so much value (condi cleanse, fury and survival skills themselves have extremely good synergy with cleanse on petswap and 4 cleanse on heal) and runs 24s 24s 32s stunbreaks while traited.

I see you are strongly biased against the ranger but the numbers are there just use the wiki the next time.Nah I actually like archer classes.

[anduriell.6280]

@Tayga.3192 said:

I see you are strongly biased against the ranger but the numbers are there just use the wiki the next time.Nah I actually like archer classes.But ranger is not an archer class. It is a pet class, the mechanic is the pet. It favors ranged weapons but it's not its core mechanic.

@Tayga.3192 said:Do you know why nobody uses those stunbreaks? They can't afford to waste important utility slots with nearly no effect stunbreaks, unlike ranger who gets so much value (condi cleanse, fury and survival skills themselves are good) and runs 24s 24s 32s stunbreaks while traited.Well lucky you that other classes have the choice to equip better utilities than the stun breaks and still being able to access stability, cleanses and stunbreaks . Ranger does not have that luxury.

[Tayga.3192]

@anduriell.6280 said:But ranger is not an archer class. It is a pet class, the mechanic is the pet. It favors ranged weapons but it's not its core mechanic.Yes, that's why I don't play ranger that much but it is THE archer class for GW2.

Well lucky you that other classes have the choice to equip better utilities than the stun breaks and still being able to access stability, cleanses and stunbreaks . Ranger does not have that luxury.

That makes no sense, ranger can also take nonstunbreak utilities.

[ollbirtan.2915]

I have a better solutionremove dmg from lightning reflexes