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Increase healing speed on downed allies


Tao.5096

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Yes. Increase the healing rate on downed players, that way if I spec into down state damage and use the +100% downstate food it means I should be really powerful. This would especially be true because so many have complained how good downstate is and have the shear audacity to request its removal! How dare they!

D:

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@"Sobx.1758" said:"And whats outnumbered on one spot is outnumbering on another. Always." -lmao, that's just straight up false. To be even remotely true, you'd need to have literally the same number of players online AND actively playing at ANY GIVEN TIME, which very obviously usually isn't happening.So what, you've never ever fought outnumbered while roaming around on the border when your own zerg on that border is roflstomping the enemy? Or vice versa? Never randomly ganked someone 3v1 when your zerg on that border is getting steamrolled? And that's just one border. You've never fought outnumbered on RBL while your EB zerg is spawncamping the enemy keep?

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:"And whats outnumbered on one spot is outnumbering on another. Always." -lmao, that's just straight up false. To be even remotely true, you'd need to have literally the same number of players online AND actively playing at ANY GIVEN TIME, which very obviously usually isn't happening.So what, you've never
ever
fought outnumbered while roaming around on the border when your own zerg on that border is roflstomping the enemy? Or vice versa? Never randomly ganked someone 3v1 when your zerg on that border is getting steamrolled? And that's just one border. You've never fought outnumbered on RBL while your EB zerg is spawncamping the enemy keep?

Again: In what way is this relevant to what we're talking about here?? (downstate favoring outnumbering side of the fight)Also -probably realizing what you said is false- you're suddenly going from "(...) Always." statement to "HEY HEY HAVE YOU NEVER EVER HAD THAT OCCURE?!" -if you can't see the difference in those two sentences, then seriously I'm not sure why you're trying to debate anything, ever. Either way, it's still literally irrelevant to what was said in this thread. Whether reds outnumber greens in location A or -at the sametime- greens are outnumbering blues at location B, the downstate still supports the outnumbering group at that location. You're just trying to make a point out of having no point at all.

Seriously, at this point it just seems you don't understand what you're reading. Let me know when you actually start answering to what I write, until then I don't feel like participating in whatever you're doing here.

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@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Yes. Increase the healing rate on downed players, that way if I spec into down state damage and use the +100% downstate food it means I should be really powerful. This would especially be true because so many have complained how good downstate is and have the shear audacity to request its removal! How dare they!

D:

Hey, stop revealing the true meta.

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@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Yes. Increase the healing rate on downed players, that way if I spec into down state damage and use the +100% downstate food it means I should be really powerful. This would especially be true because so many have complained how good downstate is and have the shear audacity to request its removal! How dare they!

D:

Hey, stop revealing the true meta.

It's the only way to play Necro though.

D:

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Rewarding good play and punishing bad play would be if a player downs a opponent while outnumbered not only does the downed player lose or have his downstate severely hampered but the outnumbered player gets their revive speed and revive heal amount significantly increased. Never happen though in carry wars 2 lol

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I don't think we want to go down the "remove downstate" path. In many ways it is functionally similar to reducing the TTK dramatically. Forums will be flooded by players getting bursted by thiefs who then disengage -> rinse repeat.

Don't get me wrong, GW2 is the most fun in the power burst meta, but lets only go into one balancing abyss at a time here.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:There is a simple answer to all this.

Remove Downstate.

This ^ 0 hp means 0 hp. Or at least remove teamates ability to revive others in pvp modes. Necro revive assist could be changed to increase downed players self revive rate by 15% if in range. Teammates can still try and protect their aly while their self razing if they want.Pve keep it who cares.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:"And whats outnumbered on one spot is outnumbering on another. Always." -lmao, that's just straight up false. To be even remotely true, you'd need to have literally the same number of players online AND actively playing at ANY GIVEN TIME, which very obviously usually isn't happening.So what, you've never
ever
fought outnumbered while roaming around on the border when your own zerg on that border is roflstomping the enemy? Or vice versa? Never randomly ganked someone 3v1 when your zerg on that border is getting steamrolled? And that's just one border. You've never fought outnumbered on RBL while your EB zerg is spawncamping the enemy keep?

Again: In what way is this relevant to what we're talking about here?? (downstate favoring outnumbering side of the fight)Also -probably realizing what you said is false- you're suddenly going from "
(...) Always.
" statement to "HEY HEY HAVE YOU NEVER EVER HAD THAT OCCURE?!" -if you can't see the difference in those two sentences, then seriously I'm not sure why you're trying to debate anything, ever. Either way, it's still
literally irrelevant to what was said in this thread
. Whether reds outnumber greens in location A or -at the sametime- greens are outnumbering blues at location B, the downstate still supports the outnumbering group at that location. You're just trying to make a point out of having no point at all.

Seriously, at this point it just seems you don't understand what you're reading. Let me know when you actually start answering to what I write, until then I don't feel like participating in whatever you're doing here.What I understand is how downed state works, because it work both ways. The example I originally quoted literally showed that. Lost 1v3 due to them ressing downed, then go down and eventually win because 2v3 could res a downed player and win what was still technically an outnumbered fight (engaging 3v3 with 1 already downed isnt exactly ideal).

But yeah this is pointless. I am "debating" the fighting scenario exactly as I quoted, not this silly thread because it never made sense in first place with it's contradictory statement (not much was said really).

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Downstate favor the outnumbering side.

3 good VS 1 bad => down state is irrelevant, just delay the inevitable1 good VS 3 bad => down state favor the 3 bads as they can recover from 0 HP.

Some people want it removed so the outnumbered side can thin off the ranks of the outnumbering side.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:"And whats outnumbered on one spot is outnumbering on another. Always." -lmao, that's just straight up false. To be even remotely true, you'd need to have literally the same number of players online AND actively playing at ANY GIVEN TIME, which very obviously usually isn't happening.So what, you've never
ever
fought outnumbered while roaming around on the border when your own zerg on that border is roflstomping the enemy? Or vice versa? Never randomly ganked someone 3v1 when your zerg on that border is getting steamrolled? And that's just one border. You've never fought outnumbered on RBL while your EB zerg is spawncamping the enemy keep?

Again: In what way is this relevant to what we're talking about here?? (downstate favoring outnumbering side of the fight)Also -probably realizing what you said is false- you're suddenly going from "
(...) Always.
" statement to "HEY HEY HAVE YOU NEVER EVER HAD THAT OCCURE?!" -if you can't see the difference in those two sentences, then seriously I'm not sure why you're trying to debate anything, ever. Either way, it's still
literally irrelevant to what was said in this thread
. Whether reds outnumber greens in location A or -at the sametime- greens are outnumbering blues at location B, the downstate still supports the outnumbering group at that location. You're just trying to make a point out of having no point at all.

Seriously, at this point it just seems you don't understand what you're reading. Let me know when you actually start answering to what I write, until then I don't feel like participating in whatever you're doing here.What I understand is how downed state works, because it work both ways. The example I originally quoted literally showed that. Lost 1v3 due to them ressing downed, then go down and eventually win because 2v3 could res a downed player and win what was still technically an outnumbered fight (engaging 3v3 with 1 already downed isnt exactly ideal).

But yeah this is pointless. I am "debating" the fighting scenario exactly as I quoted, not this silly thread because it never made sense in first place with it's contradictory statement (not much was said really).

Yup, because they were no longer outnumbered. And obviously there are different situations, but the mechanic itself supports outnumbering side way more than it does the outnumbered one.

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@Kulvar.1239 said:Downstate favor the outnumbering side.

3 good VS 1 bad => down state is irrelevant, just delay the inevitable1 good VS 3 bad => down state favor the 3 bads as they can recover from 0 HP.

Some people want it removed so the outnumbered side can thin off the ranks of the outnumbering side.

Last no downstate event, I saw some very old skill groups come back to the game (they left right after the event), because it meant zerg busting was a thing. They never had many people, I think 30 total before leaving, and I only saw 15 of them on during the event. However they are very skilled players, and watching 15 wipe a 40 man zerg was amazing, watching them push on the mini map looked like one person, push though, getting downs (which now couldn't be insta revived by 30 other people), then recover on other side and push right back in.

People always talk about breaking up the zerg, or how it's impossible to fight some of these stacked servers....But no one wants to do what is needed to make it possible.

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You can still be bad and win outnumbered fights. Imagine a few Reapers and Berserkers in a fight with no downed state. I'll bet at least a few players that are legitimately good would still die just from getting tagged at the wrong time with a cleave that does half their HP.

I think downed state could use some adjustments but removing it entirely seems like a bad idea. I aggressively harass zergs alone quite often and am able to down multiple people and escape without being punished. I'm doing nothing skillful other than knowing my limits. If downed state didn't exist I'll bet I could wipe half a zerg alone with enough time to wait on some cooldowns. I do not at all think that would be skillful nor that it should be rewarded. At least in my case I often do it as a Necro, what if it were a Staff Thief doing it? You think pogo spamming and downing a bunch of people would be the epitome of game play?

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@Sovereign.1093 said:I miss my all nomad ele mercy rune reviver

hello blood magic?o wait no since servers are lagging so bad moment u pull people and move like 1200 range away thinking skill didnt trigger for whatever reason all of sudden u pull bunch of rallybots to your old spot o/..

isnt cleave already nerfed?i mean i can out res most people cleaving, which is bullshit. cus cleave > res in my eyes.

whole downstate should be changed to dieing much quicker, i understand gw2 has this as system but theres no other game out there with downstate as far i know.u should just insta die and make a hard res available in combat..so u either go full res some1 as complete group or u die if u thought u where the tuff guy with ur duo partner or ur trio group and 1 of u guys died and u simply die also if u both gonna res ;).

ah lets not mention necro downstate skills being so freaking powerfull if ur having 2v1 and hes draining you its like some1 is doing just a little bit more then tickling ur nuts meanwhile hes healing also etc.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:You can still be bad and win outnumbered fights. Imagine a few Reapers and Berserkers in a fight with no downed state. I'll bet at least a few players that are legitimately good would still die just from getting tagged at the wrong time with a cleave that does half their HP.

I think downed state could use some adjustments but removing it entirely seems like a bad idea. I aggressively harass zergs alone quite often and am able to down multiple people and escape without being punished. I'm doing nothing skillful other than knowing my limits. If downed state didn't exist I'll bet I could wipe half a zerg alone with enough time to wait on some cooldowns. I do not at all think that would be skillful nor that it should be rewarded. At least in my case I often do it as a Necro, what if it were a Staff Thief doing it? You think pogo spamming and downing a bunch of people would be the epitome of game play?

How? Sorry, but no, one bad player vs 2 good players is NEVER going to win, sorry, nope. And if you are getting cleaved for half your HP you are fighting glass with glass and need to be more aware in fights if you want to play that way. And playing a high reward build SHOULD be risky, that is how the game should be, and less of this low risk high reward.

If you are able to pick off a zerg solo, you should be rewarded for it, as the risk is high and if they allow a single player to wipe them (excluding DB), then they deserve to die.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:You can still be bad and win outnumbered fights. Imagine a few Reapers and Berserkers in a fight with no downed state. I'll bet at least a few players that are legitimately good would still die just from getting tagged at the wrong time with a cleave that does half their HP.

I think downed state could use some adjustments but removing it entirely seems like a bad idea. I aggressively harass zergs alone quite often and am able to down multiple people and escape without being punished. I'm doing nothing skillful other than knowing my limits. If downed state didn't exist I'll bet I could wipe half a zerg alone with enough time to wait on some cooldowns. I do not at all think that would be skillful nor that it should be rewarded. At least in my case I often do it as a Necro, what if it were a Staff Thief doing it? You think pogo spamming and downing a bunch of people would be the epitome of game play?

How? Sorry, but no, one bad player vs 2 good players is NEVER going to win, sorry, nope. And if you are getting cleaved for half your HP you are fighting glass with glass and need to be more aware in fights if you want to play that way. And playing a high reward build SHOULD be risky, that is how the game should be, and less of this low risk high reward.

If you are able to pick off a zerg solo, you should be rewarded for it, as the risk is high and if they allow a single player to wipe them (excluding DB), then they deserve to die.

I was not talking 1 v 3. I said "a few", meaning a small scale fight of something like 10 versus 15 - 20. I didn't clarify so let me do so;

The groups are evenly matched in terms of skill and both are pugs but the smaller group has much higher cleave with multiple zerkers and Reapers. The smaller group winning doesn't mean it was better, it just means downed state doesn't exist in this theoretical scenario and important players in the larger group died because they got tagged for huge chunks of damage.It has happened to myself many times and I'm certain many others as well - you let your guard drop for only a second and you get blind sided by a random hit that puts you in critical shape.

I disagree about being rewarded for this. It's too easy to play something with mobility and high burst/cleave that you could get in and out of a group with taking minimal risk. A Staff Daredevil, condi Herald with Shiro, Reaper with Spectral Walk + Flesh Wurm, Berserker with Defiant Stance, Trap Dragonhunter with JI, etc. You could pop in to a group, insta-kill multiple people and get away unscathed. I agree that it only takes a few of them turning on you to be punished but it just isn't as difficult or risky as it sounds. The only skill involved is in knowing the right time to try it.

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We just need to remove the revive action while in combat, the same as it was removed for deafeated players.Mercy runes still have use if the player uses a reviving utility like transfusion.

That is the only way to break blob stacking and reward skilled players. May more steps need to be taken but this is the most visible.

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Here we are 2020 and people are still complaining that Downstate is broken even though most fights are just everyone getting cleaved to death in seconds, Warclaw'ed instantly, or stacked with so many conditions that revival is impossible.

Its literally the easiest thing to counter in the game now, and is only relevant like a third of the time at most.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:You can still be bad and win outnumbered fights. Imagine a few Reapers and Berserkers in a fight with no downed state. I'll bet at least a few players that are legitimately good would still die just from getting tagged at the wrong time with a cleave that does half their HP.

I think downed state could use some adjustments but removing it entirely seems like a bad idea. I aggressively harass zergs alone quite often and am able to down multiple people and escape without being punished. I'm doing nothing skillful other than knowing my limits. If downed state didn't exist I'll bet I could wipe half a zerg alone with enough time to wait on some cooldowns. I do not at all think that would be skillful nor that it should be rewarded. At least in my case I often do it as a Necro, what if it were a Staff Thief doing it? You think pogo spamming and downing a bunch of people would be the epitome of game play?

How? Sorry, but no, one bad player vs 2 good players is NEVER going to win, sorry, nope. And if you are getting cleaved for half your HP you are fighting glass with glass and need to be more aware in fights if you want to play that way. And playing a high reward build SHOULD be risky, that is how the game should be, and less of this low risk high reward.

If you are able to pick off a zerg solo, you should be rewarded for it, as the risk is high and if they allow a single player to wipe them (excluding DB), then they deserve to die.

I was not talking 1 v 3. I said "a few", meaning a small scale fight of something like 10 versus 15 - 20. I didn't clarify so let me do so;

The groups are evenly matched in terms of skill and both are pugs but the smaller group has much higher cleave with multiple zerkers and Reapers. The smaller group winning doesn't mean it was better, it just means downed state doesn't exist in this theoretical scenario and important players in the larger group died because they got tagged for huge chunks of damage.It has happened to myself many times and I'm certain many others as well - you let your guard drop for only a second and you get blind sided by a random hit that puts you in critical shape.

So, the "worse" group has the better builds, better coordination for a proper bomb, much better propositioning to survive on a pure zerk builds etc, and the "good" group hits like a wet noodle on pure zerk builds, is out of position and face tanking dmg.....OOOOOOOOOKAAAAAAAAAAYYYY.

Hold on, let me come up with my own imaginary totally ridiculous situation as well.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I disagree about being rewarded for this. It's too easy to play something with mobility and high burst/cleave that you could get in and out of a group with taking minimal risk. A Staff Daredevil, condi Herald with Shiro, Reaper with Spectral Walk + Flesh Wurm, Berserker with Defiant Stance, Trap Dragonhunter with JI, etc. You could pop in to a group, insta-kill multiple people and get away unscathed. I agree that it only takes a few of them turning on you to be punished but it just isn't as difficult or risky as it sounds. The only skill involved is in knowing the right time to try it.

Stop brainless stacking in a zerg and mashing #1 totally oblivious to what is going on in a PvP environment because you just want to half afk ktrain.

You are seriously complaining that this change would actually give a chance to smaller groups to push a larger zerg.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:You can still be bad and win outnumbered fights. Imagine a few Reapers and Berserkers in a fight with no downed state. I'll bet at least a few players that are legitimately good would still die just from getting tagged at the wrong time with a cleave that does half their HP.

I think downed state could use some adjustments but removing it entirely seems like a bad idea. I aggressively harass zergs alone quite often and am able to down multiple people and escape without being punished. I'm doing nothing skillful other than knowing my limits. If downed state didn't exist I'll bet I could wipe half a zerg alone with enough time to wait on some cooldowns. I do not at all think that would be skillful nor that it should be rewarded. At least in my case I often do it as a Necro, what if it were a Staff Thief doing it? You think pogo spamming and downing a bunch of people would be the epitome of game play?

How? Sorry, but no, one bad player vs 2 good players is NEVER going to win, sorry, nope. And if you are getting cleaved for half your HP you are fighting glass with glass and need to be more aware in fights if you want to play that way. And playing a high reward build SHOULD be risky, that is how the game should be, and less of this low risk high reward.

If you are able to pick off a zerg solo, you should be rewarded for it, as the risk is high and if they allow a single player to wipe them (excluding DB), then they deserve to die.

I was not talking 1 v 3. I said "a few", meaning a small scale fight of something like 10 versus 15 - 20. I didn't clarify so let me do so;

The groups are evenly matched in terms of skill and both are pugs but the smaller group has much higher cleave with multiple zerkers and Reapers. The smaller group winning doesn't mean it was better, it just means downed state doesn't exist in this theoretical scenario and important players in the larger group died because they got tagged for huge chunks of damage.It has happened to myself many times and I'm certain many others as well - you let your guard drop for only a second and you get blind sided by a random hit that puts you in critical shape.

So, the "worse" group has the better builds, better coordination for a proper bomb, much better propositioning to survive on a pure zerk builds etc, and the "good" group hits like a wet noodle on pure zerk builds, is out of position and face tanking dmg.....OOOOOOOOOKAAAAAAAAAAYYYY.

Hold on, let me come up with my own imaginary totally ridiculous situation as well.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I disagree about being rewarded for this. It's too easy to play something with mobility and high burst/cleave that you could get in and out of a group with taking minimal risk. A Staff Daredevil, condi Herald with Shiro, Reaper with Spectral Walk + Flesh Wurm, Berserker with Defiant Stance, Trap Dragonhunter with JI, etc. You could pop in to a group, insta-kill multiple people and get away unscathed. I agree that it only takes a few of them turning on you to be punished but it just isn't as difficult or risky as it sounds. The only skill involved is in knowing the right time to try it.

Stop brainless stacking in a zerg and mashing #1 totally oblivious to what is going on in a PvP environment because you just want to half afk ktrain.

You are seriously complaining that this change would actually give a chance to smaller groups to push a larger zerg.

Nah, not complaining. Stating.

Next time some ape zooms through a zerg and downs a bunch of people, even if said player dies near instantly doing so ( eg. one of the many jihad Berserker's that Defiant Stance bomb a group ) imagine they actually kill everyone they down because downed state doesn't exist anymore. If you think what that player is doing is any less brainless than the people they kill, there's no hope for you.

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