Named sunspear weapons for elite spec collections

[Khisanth.2948]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself.

but then the entire game is optional

And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything.

Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted.

It is just as ridiculous as "it is optional so ... whatever just move on".

Just because something is optional doesn't mean any possible issues with it can simply be swept under the rug.

Lets take another example of optional content. Precursor crafting for gen 1 weapons. All those things that required broken events or failed events should have been just left as since it is all optional. Nobody needs a legendary to play and you can just buy the precursor on the TP as well.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point?

Precisely. "But it's optional" is a pointless argument. You can use it for pretty much anything, which makes it completely meaningless.

[Pifil.5193]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point?

Precisely. "But it's optional" is a pointless argument. You can use it for pretty much anything, which makes it completely meaningless.

Exactly, the fact that it's optional in a game where almost everything is optional is irrelevant and is most commonly used as an attempt to end the discussion.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

Point is, you expect it to be cheap or even free. It's not. You can gamble with unid gear or buy it from TP. Imagine if they were accountbound.

No I don't, I expect it to be a reward from doing some specific activity in game.

on the other hand, making it tradable makes you choose whatever activity you like and get gold (or drop) from there

Yeah, again, I expect it to be a reward from doing a

specific

activity, something pertinent to the collection. Not general farming but if you're happy with that then more power to you.

Looks like ArenaNet didn't meet your expectations. Now what?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point?

Precisely. "But it's optional" is a pointless argument. You can use it for pretty much anything, which makes it completely meaningless.

The statement by itself is pointless until you elaborate more like I had done in my post. Blanket statements, like from the two that I was addressing, are something entirely different.

Obtaining those specific skins, or obtaining the AP, is not going to stop you from playing content in the game. Those weapons are no less optional than the achievement to slap yaks in WvW.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself.

but then the entire game is optional

And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything.

Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted.

It is just as ridiculous as "it is optional so ... whatever just move on".

Just because something is optional doesn't mean any possible issues with it can simply be swept under the rug.

Lets take another example of optional content. Precursor crafting for gen 1 weapons. All those things that required broken events or failed events should have been just left as since it is all optional. Nobody needs a legendary to play and you can just buy the precursor on the TP as well.

Not when it’s been elaborated in rather than just a blanket statement. You can not deny that ascended weapons can be obtained outside of those collections. The only thing that players obtain are the specific skins and few AP. None of those are required to play anything within the game.

I can’t speak for everyone else, but I’m not suggesting to sweep it under the rug. I believe that I suggested adding them as a possible drop from the meta events. That or an account bound version could be purchased using a combination of the PoF currencies along with a gold cost.

Your precursor analogy is too different as nothing is broken. Anet just gave the named weapons a low drop rate. Assuming that they’re dropping at the established rate set, it’s working as intended. That’s much different than an event which stalls or never appears.

That said, I don’t see this as an issue at the moment. Ultimately this is up to Anet to decide as to whether it is meeting their goals.

[Pifil.5193]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

Point is, you expect it to be cheap or even free. It's not. You can gamble with unid gear or buy it from TP. Imagine if they were accountbound.

No I don't, I expect it to be a reward from doing some specific activity in game.

on the other hand, making it tradable makes you choose whatever activity you like and get gold (or drop) from there

Yeah, again, I expect it to be a reward from doing a

specific

activity, something pertinent to the collection. Not general farming but if you're happy with that then more power to you.

Looks like ArenaNet didn't meet your expectations. Now what?

Well gee willikers, I guess I'll go to their forums and leave some feedback... oh wait, that's what I'm doing. Like right now.

What do you think is happening here?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

Point is, you expect it to be cheap or even free. It's not. You can gamble with unid gear or buy it from TP. Imagine if they were accountbound.

No I don't, I expect it to be a reward from doing some specific activity in game.

on the other hand, making it tradable makes you choose whatever activity you like and get gold (or drop) from there

Yeah, again, I expect it to be a reward from doing a

specific

activity, something pertinent to the collection. Not general farming but if you're happy with that then more power to you.

Looks like ArenaNet didn't meet your expectations. Now what?

Well gee willikers, I guess I'll go to their forums and leave some feedback... oh wait, that's what I'm doing. Like right now.

What do

you

think is happening here?

oh I am sure anet appreciates your intentions, however as more reasonable person I can assure they are not going to change it this time, so maybe with next expansion you will see if they listened to you

good luck, you gonna need it

[Moira Shalaar.5620]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

Point is, you expect it to be cheap or even free. It's not. You can gamble with unid gear or buy it from TP. Imagine if they were accountbound.

No I don't, I expect it to be a reward from doing some specific activity in game.

on the other hand, making it tradable makes you choose whatever activity you like and get gold (or drop) from there

Yeah, again, I expect it to be a reward from doing a

specific

activity, something pertinent to the collection. Not general farming but if you're happy with that then more power to you.

Looks like ArenaNet didn't meet your expectations. Now what?

Well gee willikers, I guess I'll go to their forums and leave some feedback... oh wait, that's what I'm doing. Like right now.

What do

you

think is happening here?

oh I am sure anet appreciates your intentions, however as more reasonable person I can assure they are not going to change it this time, so maybe with next expansion you will see if they listened to you

good luck, you gonna need it

"as the more reasonable person" . . . your argument has just devolved into an ad hominem attack.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Unless you have a direct connection to the developers, then your assurances are of little value. However, apart from your ad hominem attack, you are probably correct. I seem to recall in one of the video releases MO making a comment about selling items, suggesting that they not only knew this would be an issue, but intended for it to be this way, as a way of "helping" casual gamers make some gold. However I think that while helping some casual gamers make money, it is also a callous disregard of other casual gamers who don't necessarily live to play the TP.

As for the suggestion that all that is needed is to play the content more to get the item as a drop, these weapons seem to have the likelihood of a precursor drop. 5+ years of playing dungeons, bosses, raiding, fractals, mystic forge and 0 precursors. At least anecdotally, the "play more" argument does not suggest that it is a viable strategy to finding 1 much less 5 of these items. But hey, that is intended because ANET is helping somebody, just not anybody who is interested in matching weapon to specialization. We instead get the "its optional so suck it up" argument.

I'd be curious, for those who assert the "it's optional" argument, have you completed all 9 collections already? How much did you pay, and would you be willing to pay the current prices? double the current? at what point would you decide that the kittens have taken over handing out rewards at ANET?

[Shirlias.8104]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

Point is, you expect it to be cheap or even free. It's not. You can gamble with unid gear or buy it from TP. Imagine if they were accountbound.

No I don't, I expect it to be a reward from doing some specific activity in game.

on the other hand, making it tradable makes you choose whatever activity you like and get gold (or drop) from there

Yeah, again, I expect it to be a reward from doing a

specific

activity, something pertinent to the collection. Not general farming but if you're happy with that then more power to you.

Looks like ArenaNet didn't meet your expectations. Now what?

Well gee willikers, I guess I'll go to their forums and leave some feedback... oh wait, that's what I'm doing. Like right now.

What do

you

think is happening here?

oh I am sure anet appreciates your intentions, however as more reasonable person I can assure they are not going to change it this time, so maybe with next expansion you will see if they listened to you

good luck, you gonna need it

I do understand pifil's point.Though there are more than 1 way to get em, which is what i like, the second one consists in rng related unidentified gear.

It's not a real alternative, cause is not Clear what you need in order to achieve the item.I.e. If i had been a recipe which needed to dtop from events and with a overall reduced cost ( due to events time sink ) would have been Nicer.

[solarisnox.8521]

@Wanze.8410 said:

@solarisnox.8521 said:This is not something that should rely on chance, it's a

profession specific

item, I should be able to craft it or get it through some manner of repeatable content. Otherwise, if I want to complete the collection, yes I am in fact being Forced to buy them from the tp at grossly over-inflated prices.

not all of them are profession specific because they count for two profession collections and they arent even items, just their skin is specific to the profession.

And they are available through repeatable content (basically any PoF content), it just seems you havent done enough repeats.

Raiders had to wait over a year to finish their collections.

I'll try to be as polite as I can:

1) first off, each elite spec weapon is, in fact, by definition, profession specific. The requirement for an item that I must buy from the tp at grossly inflated prices, rather than something that I can craft or obtain through some repeatable story content, (as they were with the HoT release), is unacceptable.

2) "any pof content" is obviously not what is meant by "repeatable content". The original context of my statement related to repeatable story content and/or achievements.

As an example: the exalted weapons collection was obtainable through repeated runnings of the story instance on different characters. Each character could only get one weapon, one time. Only a different character could get an additional exalted weapon choice.

This was an excellent way to do it.

No, the exalted weapons were not required for any of the HoT elite spec weapon collections, but something like that would have been a good way to handle this kind of situation. Or, to increase the drop rate so that they actually drop at a decent rate for people to get them, rather than have a drop rate that is rarer than a legendary precursor.

3) The "skin" is useless, or the "crafted sunspear weapon" would have worked for the collection. It doesn't. Only the named "weapon" works for the collection.

4) I have almost 30k ap, I've played gw2 over 9 thousand hours since launch. I've played PoF at least a few hundred of those hours since it's release. And as I noted in my original post, I've opened literally thousands of unidentified gear and never gotten a single named weapon drop.The required items are not dropping at a rate to make them reasonably priced, and they shouldn't even be that kind of drop, in the first place. Someone said "be glad they're not account bound". Why on earth wouldn't I be glad their account bound? At least then I'd have some relative certainty that I'd likely get the ones I need, and I wouldn't be at the mercy of someone else's greed.

5)And finally, Raider's had to wait to finish their collections because anet didn't include the content, not because some greedy jack hole was hording weapons and extorting them for ridiculous prices.

So, how many named sunspear weapons do You have on the TP?

[solarisnox.8521]

@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

Point is, you expect it to be cheap or even free. It's not. You can gamble with unid gear or buy it from TP. Imagine if they were accountbound.

No I don't, I expect it to be a reward from doing some specific activity in game.

on the other hand, making it tradable makes you choose whatever activity you like and get gold (or drop) from there

Yeah, again, I expect it to be a reward from doing a

specific

activity, something pertinent to the collection. Not general farming but if you're happy with that then more power to you.

Looks like ArenaNet didn't meet your expectations. Now what?

Well gee willikers, I guess I'll go to their forums and leave some feedback... oh wait, that's what I'm doing. Like right now.

What do

you

think is happening here?

oh I am sure anet appreciates your intentions, however as more reasonable person I can assure they are not going to change it this time, so maybe with next expansion you will see if they listened to you

good luck, you gonna need it

"as the more reasonable person" . . . your argument has just devolved into an ad hominem attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Unless you have a direct connection to the developers, then your assurances are of little value. However, apart from your ad hominem attack, you are probably correct. I seem to recall in one of the video releases MO making a comment about selling items, suggesting that they not only knew this would be an issue, but intended for it to be this way, as a way of "helping" casual gamers make some gold. However I think that while helping some casual gamers make money, it is also a callous disregard of other casual gamers who don't necessarily live to play the TP.

As for the suggestion that all that is needed is to play the content more to get the item as a drop, these weapons seem to have the likelihood of a precursor drop. 5+ years of playing dungeons, bosses, raiding, fractals, mystic forge and 0 precursors. At least anecdotally, the "play more" argument does not suggest that it is a viable strategy to finding 1 much less 5 of these items. But hey, that is intended because ANET is helping somebody, just not anybody who is interested in matching weapon to specialization. We instead get the "its optional so suck it up" argument.

I'd be curious, for those who assert the "it's optional" argument, have you completed all 9 collections already? How much did you pay, and would you be willing to pay the current prices? double the current? at what point would you decide that the kittens have taken over handing out rewards at ANET?

I think what MO actually meant was "the few people that we really like and whose rng we've cranked up can make a butload of gold off this", because the "casual gamer" is never going to get one of these weapons.

And let's be honest, they have no desire to "help casual gamers" make gold. The best way for "casual gamers" to make gold, is to buy gems from the gemstore and convert them to gold. Otherwise, the "casual gamer" does not have the time or the dedication it takes to farm SW or Fracs for hours on end. No, that sounds to me like standard anet bs marketing gibberish, right in line with the "the medium armor sets are all marked by a particular silhouette" in order to justify the "so called legendary" armor abortion.

It is fairly obvious that "K" has probably got a bucket full of named exotics on the tp right now going for 80+ gold each, which is why he/she is so pro this ridiculous and f'd up situation.

As for anet, I suspect that if enough people complained about it, and enough people stopped buying gems in protest, and they started losing money because the majority of the active player base is mad as heck and not going to take it any longer, they'll suddenly come up with some way of fixing this situation. They've done it before for other parts of the game, they can do it for this. I think they call it a "balance patch".

[solarisnox.8521]

@jwaz.1908 said:The POF specialzation weapon collections are already a lot easier than the HOT counterparts, requiring a lot less map-specific currencies as well as meta event time-gating, and you want them to be even easier?

this is a shortsighted and idiotic statement. It's not about making them "easier". It's about making them not benefit some tiny handful of greedy jack holes who just happen to have rngesus smiling on them. I'm fine with a challenge, but I'm not fine with being extorted.

[solarisnox.8521]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:People pay more for gemstore skins, so no issue here. Unique skin? Ascended? 100g is nothing.

It's not about the cost. I could buy every weapon I need right now to complete all my elite spec weapons and still have enough left over to craft my next legendary. That's not the point. The point is I should not be extorted to buy something from the trading post that I should be able to get through achievements or story content.

[solarisnox.8521]

@Drecien.4508 said:I've farmed everything/everywhere and only gotten named drops of weapons that are not related to the collection. Trying different classes doesn't seem to help. I saw a thread about MF affects the unidentified gear so that could help. I bought some of the named ones just to finish and I must say, I'm underwhelmed at the lack of stat combos available on these. Yes I can reroll them but that's more money invested. Would have liked to see all the stat combos available when picking it to account bind it, not just 3. Oh well onward to farm to buy the rest.

after studying all the elite spec weapons and the stats available on them, it seems pretty obvious that whoever was in charge of the elite specs for the classes that didn't get stat changes, didn't give a shit about their job quality, and wasn't paying attention sufficiently to think "hey, this soulbeast is clearly a condi build...I should change the available stats to something other than healing", etc.

[solarisnox.8521]

Point is, you expect it to be cheap or even free. It's not. You can gamble with unid gear or buy it from TP. Imagine if they were accountbound.

No I don't, I expect it to be a reward from doing some specific activity in game.

on the other hand, making it tradable makes you choose whatever activity you like and get gold (or drop) from there

no, actually, that's a nice argument, but it's false.

The ONLY thing this does, is allow a tiny handful of people to extort the entire rest of the gaming community for gold, in order to finish an achievement or obtain a weapon that they should be able to get through story content or some other achievement. Anet is no stranger to the concept of nested achievements within achievements. (i.e. Aurora, all of the HoT elite spec weapons, etc).

This is nothing more than scarcity-driven economics, which always and only allows those with more to extort those with less.MO's argument that this is for the "casual gamer" to make some gold is complete bull, no offense to Mike.

[solarisnox.8521]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself.

but then the entire game is optional

And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything.

Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted.

that same argument works the other way: if the weapons were tied to achievements and/or repeatable story content, you could simpley choose not to play them, right? no need to play something you don't enjoy, right? it's all optional.

The difference is, though, that the vast majority of the community would not be at the greedy whim of a tiny handful of players like you.

[Shirlias.8104]

dude you should multiquote ( pressing quote will copy every post you want into you message sheet, so you can give a response between quotes instead of making X different posts ).

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

Point is, you expect it to be cheap or even free. It's not. You can gamble with unid gear or buy it from TP. Imagine if they were accountbound.

No I don't, I expect it to be a reward from doing some specific activity in game.

on the other hand, making it tradable makes you choose whatever activity you like and get gold (or drop) from there

Yeah, again, I expect it to be a reward from doing a

specific

activity, something pertinent to the collection. Not general farming but if you're happy with that then more power to you.

Looks like ArenaNet didn't meet your expectations. Now what?

Well gee willikers, I guess I'll go to their forums and leave some feedback... oh wait, that's what I'm doing. Like right now.

What do

you

think is happening here?

oh I am sure anet appreciates your intentions, however as more reasonable person I can assure they are not going to change it this time, so maybe with next expansion you will see if they listened to you

good luck, you gonna need it

"as the more reasonable person" . . . your argument has just devolved into an ad hominem attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Unless you have a direct connection to the developers, then your assurances are of little value. However, apart from your ad hominem attack, you are probably correct. I seem to recall in one of the video releases MO making a comment about selling items, suggesting that they not only knew this would be an issue, but intended for it to be this way, as a way of "helping" casual gamers make some gold. However I think that while helping some casual gamers make money, it is also a callous disregard of other casual gamers who don't necessarily live to play the TP.

As for the suggestion that all that is needed is to play the content more to get the item as a drop, these weapons seem to have the likelihood of a precursor drop. 5+ years of playing dungeons, bosses, raiding, fractals, mystic forge and 0 precursors. At least anecdotally, the "play more" argument does not suggest that it is a viable strategy to finding 1 much less 5 of these items. But hey, that is intended because ANET is helping somebody, just not anybody who is interested in matching weapon to specialization. We instead get the "its optional so suck it up" argument.

I'd be curious, for those who assert the "it's optional" argument, have you completed all 9 collections already? How much did you pay, and would you be willing to pay the current prices? double the current? at what point would you decide that the kittens have taken over handing out rewards at ANET?

My post is backed up with 5 year old experience with this game. My advice is, go get some gold, buy the item. You will forget about it in a week or so. There is no issue here and looks like you are building a lot of negative feelings for yourself because of this case. There is no reason for. Be like me, be reasonable.

[solarisnox.8521]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

um...check again...a single stack of rare unidentified gear is about 180g as of yesterday. 4500 rare unidents would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,850g.

[Wanze.8410]

@solarisnox.8521 said:

@Wanze.8410 said:

@solarisnox.8521 said:This is not something that should rely on chance, it's a

profession specific

item, I should be able to craft it or get it through some manner of repeatable content. Otherwise, if I want to complete the collection, yes I am in fact being Forced to buy them from the tp at grossly over-inflated prices.

not all of them are profession specific because they count for two profession collections and they arent even items, just their skin is specific to the profession.

And they are available through repeatable content (basically any PoF content), it just seems you havent done enough repeats.

Raiders had to wait over a year to finish their collections.

I'll try to be as polite as I can:

1) first off, each elite spec weapon is, in fact, by definition, profession specific. The requirement for an item that I must buy from the tp at grossly inflated prices, rather than something that I can craft or obtain through some repeatable story content, (as they were with the HoT release), is unacceptable.

2) "any pof content" is obviously not what is meant by "repeatable content". The original context of my statement related to repeatable

story content

and/or achievements.

As an example: the exalted weapons collection was obtainable through repeated runnings of the story instance on different characters. Each character could only get one weapon, one time. Only a different character could get an additional exalted weapon choice.

This was an excellent way to do it.

No, the exalted weapons were not required for any of the HoT elite spec weapon collections, but something like that would have been a good way to handle this kind of situation. Or, to increase the drop rate so that they actually drop at a decent rate for people to get them, rather than have a drop rate that is rarer than a legendary precursor.

3) The "skin" is useless, or the "crafted sunspear weapon" would have worked for the collection. It doesn't. Only the named "weapon" works for the collection.

4) I have almost 30k ap, I've played gw2 over 9

thousand

hours since launch. I've played PoF at least a few hundred of those hours since it's release. And as I noted in my original post, I've opened literally thousands of unidentified gear and never gotten a single named weapon drop.The required items are not dropping at a rate to make them reasonably priced, and they shouldn't even be that kind of drop, in the first place. Someone said "be glad they're not account bound". Why on earth wouldn't I be glad their account bound? At least then I'd have some relative certainty that I'd likely get the ones I need, and I wouldn't be at the mercy of someone else's greed.

5)And finally, Raider's had to wait to finish their collections because anet didn't include the content, not because some greedy jack hole was hording weapons and extorting them for ridiculous prices.

So, how many named sunspear weapons do You have on the TP?

1) The collections we are talking about reward ascended weapons that are used by that elite spec and have an exclusive skin. Only that weapon skin (e.g. the dagger Silence of a Thousand Years for Spellbreaker) is exclusive. You can craft any ascended dagger or use weapon chests to choose ascended daggers to use with the spellbreaker elite spec, you dont need the Silence of a thousands years dagger to play spellbreaker.

2) Anet gave every account a relative easy way to obtain one of these named weapon skins needed for the elite spec weapon collections, which is enough to unlock up to 2 elite spec weapon collections, if you collect all other items for those.

3) i meant the skin of the weapon that is awarded, once the collection is done (silence of a thousand years), not the named weapon skin you need to finish the collection. The skin from the final reward is completely optional and you dont need it in order to play that elite spec, its just a cosmetic collection.

4) Your AP doesnt matter in the context, your playtime neither. And those weapons are reasonably priced in relation to the market prices of unid gear, as they make up a good amount of the average value of unids. If these weapons were as cheap as the other exotics, players would get way less for their unids on the tp, directly diminishing their ability to earn gold from PoF maps.

Its been stated by Anet and proven by research that magic find raises your droprate of exotic gear from IDing unid gear, which includes these weapons. IF you find that your personal droprate for these weapons from unid gear isnt acceptable, Anet gave you the choice to sell your unids on the tp to players that find the average value they get from IDing them acceptable and use that gold to buy the weapons from the tp. You are contradicting yourself by first saying that the droprates for these weapons are way too low and then accusing other players, who get a drop to ask for unreasonable prices.

5) calling people greedy jackholes doesnt really prove your point, just your attitude.

[Cyninja.2954]

People are buthurt for not buying the weapons when they were 20-25g (yeah life is unfair, I didn't get mine at sub 60g too and most at 65-75g). Now supply has decreased (less people playing PoF, Halloween drawing a lot of farmers away) and demand has increased (as more and more people start doing the collections after finishing the story). This might improce after Halloween or not, we shall see.

The price asked for on the TP is a function of this current supply and demand. Obviously enough people are willing and able to buy the weapons at this price. Individuals who are unwilling and/or unable to pay the price are merely lower in there tolerance or more price sensitive. There is nothing "unacceptable" about this since quite a few people are willing to pay these prices. Personal preferance of unique individuals does matter to the market. On top of that, arenanet gave everyone a collection they can use to get their first skin (or even sell it).

The main benefit of finishing the collection is the AP and a unique skin. Ascended gear can be aquired cheaper via other methods.

If you want the AP and skin, farm the gold and buy them or wait until one drops for you. At the current price these are by far not the most expensive achievements for the amount of AP gained and many other skins are far more expensive too.

None of the collections is required or mandatory to enjoy the game. That's merely your OCD talking.

Arenanet might have just as well made this some type of crafting requirement (same as for HoT) and people would be up in arms about the price of the materials spiking on the TP.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@Cyninja.2954 said:Arenanet might have just as well made this some type of crafting requirement (same as for HoT) and people would be up in arms about the price of the materials spiking on the TP.That would actually be a vastly better option in every possible way, just make the sunspear skin the collection item (or have the crafting recipes make the named versions instead of a generic one).

The Mordant skins needed for the collection cost, what, maybe 15-20g apiece to craft? And that's if you bought the mats from the TP instead of gathering them yourself. Sunspear weapons have almost the exact same recipe, so the price would be similar.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@solarisnox.8521 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

As for me, between yesterday and this morning I opened over 4500 bags with 500% magic find and got none of the weapons needed for collections.

Raw value of selling these without identification is around 50g+ What you got from identifying and salvaging is probably worth more getting you even closer to 100g needed for buying it from TP. So if your RNG is not working for you, you can always buy it with gold you make while hunting for these exotics.

Where's the issue?

Erm. The issue is that they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play. It's not about whether I recouped my losses from buying those 4500 bags (I didn't, btw, down a little gold but not much). Or even the time wasted in opening that junk.

Also you know you need more than one weapon to complete the collections, of course. You need 6, ~100g will get you one. Quick maths will tell you roughly what to expect for the others.

These collections are not essential for your gameplay. They offer ascended weapon with unique skin, it's only your choice to make them. They are not required in any way, just like you don't require precursor in this game to play it. If you can't afford spec weapon, craft cheapest ascended counterpart needed for your build.

Oh the "you don't need to do it" argument. You don't

need

to do

anything

in this game. Therefore

everything

is fine. Right.

You may buy that but personally I've always thought that was the weakest argument ever brought up (time and again) on these forums and once again completely ignores the point. Also, I could buy them on the TP, I have the gold but again that's ignoring the point that "they gated a collection through a low drop exotic that will likely have to be bought on the TP rather than earned through play".

I always found that counter argument to be the weakest argument ever brought up. It’s optional as it has no impact on the game itself.

but then the entire game is optional

And? Of course the entire game is optional so what’s your point? Exaggerating an argument to the point of ridiculousness in the way you just did doesn’t accomplish anything.

Completing those collections are optional as you only lose out on the associated skins and AP. None of these are required in any way to actually play the game. The ascended weapons themselves can still be crafted.

that same argument works the other way: if the weapons were tied to achievements and/or repeatable story content, you could simpley

choose

not to play them, right? no need to play something you don't enjoy, right? it's all

optional

.

The difference is, though, that the vast majority of the community would not be at the greedy whim of a tiny handful of players like you.

Nice personal attack on me as well as being an uninformed assumption. Any extra weapons that I had were sold off over a month ago.

Players who get the drops from playing PoF, who in turn sell them, are no more greedy than any other player selling something on the TP to make gold. It’s also no where near “extorting” as I saw someone claim in this thread. All that I see are choice words being used to gain sympathy.

[solarisnox.8521]

1) The collections we are talking about reward ascended weapons that are used by that elite spec and have an exclusive skin. Only that weapon skin (e.g. the dagger Silence of a Thousand Years for Spellbreaker) is exclusive. You can craft any ascended dagger or use weapon chests to choose ascended daggers to use with the spellbreaker elite spec, you dont need the Silence of a thousands years dagger to play spellbreaker.

2) Anet gave every account a relative easy way to obtain one of these named weapon skins needed for the elite spec weapon collections, which is enough to unlock up to 2 elite spec weapon collections, if you collect all other items for those.

3) i meant the skin of the weapon that is awarded, once the collection is done (silence of a thousand years), not the named weapon skin you need to finish the collection. The skin from the final reward is completely optional and you dont need it in order to play that elite spec, its just a cosmetic collection.

4) Your AP doesnt matter in the context, your playtime neither. And those weapons are reasonably priced in relation to the market prices of unid gear, as they make up a good amount of the average value of unids. If these weapons were as cheap as the other exotics, players would get way less for their unids on the tp, directly diminishing their ability to earn gold from PoF maps.

Its been stated by Anet and proven by research that magic find raises your droprate of exotic gear from IDing unid gear, which includes these weapons. IF you find that your personal droprate for these weapons from unid gear isnt acceptable, Anet gave you the choice to sell your unids on the tp to players that find the average value they get from IDing them acceptable and use that gold to buy the weapons from the tp. You are contradicting yourself by first saying that the droprates for these weapons are way too low and then accusing other players, who get a drop to ask for unreasonable prices.

5) calling people greedy jackholes doesnt really prove your point, just your attitude.

a) your point is both off topic and irrelevant and servers only to obfuscate the actual discussion. This is fashion wars 2, the weapon and armor skins are the only thing that matter. Everyone in the game knows that the weapon skin is optional. However, these achievements give an opportunity for people who hate crafting or who don't have the gold to level their crafting up to 500 to craft ascended gear, to obtain ascended gear through achievements instead of gold, or crafting. To force them to then have to spend their hard earned gold, (because maybe they're just a casual player and don't want to spend all their limited free time in game farming the silverwastes in order to make enough gold to buy that one named exotic they need), is again, unacceptable.To allow a tiny minority of the gaming community to extort the entire rest of the gaming community for something that should be available, and in fact historically has been available, through much more common loot drops, and/or story and content related achievements, is again, unacceptable.

b) I go back again to the point I made in my first post, and which many others have made, and which is clearly reflected in the extremely limited quantity and grossly over inflated price on the trading post: named exotic sunspear weapons are NOT easy to come buy, or there would be more of them available and the price would be reasonable.

c) the skin of the weapon is only part of the reward. There is also, as I noted above, the fact of an ascended weapon, which, as I also noted above, many players if they are casual, may not be able to craft. There is also the achievement points. There is also the fact of completing the achievement collection. All of these are aspects of reward to many players, myself included.

d) my AP and my playtime are entirely relevant when viewed from the perspective of how much time I put into the game, how much unidentified loot I've identified, how much of the game content I've actually experienced, and how I have yet to obtain even a single named exotic sunspear weapon from loot drops. In the context of the discussion at hand, (i.e. the availability and acquisition of named exotic sunspear weapons for the the elite spec weapons collections), this data is entirely relevant.

But, it sounds like you're suggesting that I should have to save up all of my rare and masterwork unidentified loot, for days and days and days, clogging my finite inventory space, and then take it all over to the silverwastes, so that I can waste 2 hours doing that meta event, and hope that it succeeds, so that I can then get an extra 200% magic find, just so that I can identify all that unidentified loot (and I've seen nothing anywhere that indicates that "identifying" is in any way affected by my magic find), just so that I can hope to maybe get one of these elusive named exotic sunspear weapons, that you claim are so "easy" to obtain.

Because apparently you missed the post where someone did that exact thing with 4500 unidentified items and didn't get a single named exotic weapon. Probably because magic find has no effect on "identifying".Either way, that's an unreasonable suggestion, at best. And to my knowledge does not qualify as an "easy way to obtain" anything.

My suggestion was that they be made available via some repeatable story content, as with the exalted weapons from HoT, or make them purchasable from some vendor, as with the machined weapons, which were required for a subcollection for the elite spec weapons for HoT. Not to make them a ridiculously rare random drop.

e) if people don't want to be called greedy jackholes, then they shouldn't act like greedy jackholes. Which has nothing at all to do with my attitude, but kudos for trying.