Every class should be able to 1 v 1

[Crab Fear.1624]

There should be good matches,bad matches,and skill/toss matches.

No one rule should exclude any single class from 1 v 1.

As long as such rules exist, balance will be bad.

This may mean tighter rules on classes allowed per game.

But, it will probably make for a better game.

They say you need to be able to multiclass.

Okay, I think 3 classes mastered is a fair number.

Expecting master knowledge of 9 is ....wack

Expecting essential knowledge of 9 is acceptable.

CLASSES :

• A
• B
• C
• D
• E
• F
• G
• H
• I

Let's assume the classes are group into 3 groups, and its not based on health or armor.

Group 1 is (ABC), Group 2 is (DEF), and Group 3 is (GHI)

Classes in 1 should counter 2, classes in 2 should counter 3, and classes in 3 should counter 1, naturally.

Classes in 2 should require a little work to beat 3 and visa versa.

Ect...ect...

No one ability should be the reason a class can not duel.

If you consider all things and want to really balance, consider roamers and 1 v 1 ers of wvw old.

[montecristo.1324]

if you talk about CLASS I agree, but for specific builds/specs I think we need a role, and I think role is a step over the 1v1.What I mean is this: every class should have a duelist role (1v1) but not all roles should be able to do 1v1.If you take for example ele, for me it's ok that burn weaver (duelist build) can do 1v1, but heal tempest should not be able to do a 1v1, because it is another role. I'm not saying tempest can do a 1v1, it is just an example.

[Tayga.3192]

@montecristo.1324 said:if you talk about CLASS I agree, but for specific builds/specs I think we need a role, and I think role is a step over the 1v1.

Shhh, they might even change their builds to fit the play style they want.

[Bladestrom.6425]

Even outwith roles, for every cleave/support/aoe skill you use your 1v1 viabity should be reduced.

[rng.1024]

Pre-nerf dmg allowed for this. Not anymore. If you want to do the same dmg as some professions, you need to sacrifice all defense. Even if it means they have 19k hp and you have 11k. Even if your hardest hittig weapon skill take 20% of their health, and theirs do 60%. Even if you can stack 5 might and they stack 25. It's doable but you rely on them to misplay which is just bad design.

[Zoid.2568]

Every class can 1vs1 but not all builds can 1vs1.

[choovanski.5462]

feel like bunker engineer being able to win 1v1 would be unfair. has to be 2v1 to kill it, no reason why it's should be able to kill anyone. same goes for other bunker, support and +1 mobility builds- they shouldn't be able to win 1v1.

else the duelist side node role becomes obsolete, because everyone is just a 1v1 god on all specs. if people want to win 1v1, they should play specs for the duelist role, not demand all specs can win 1v1.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Highlie.7641" said:Initiative costs are the only reason thieves can't duel or team fight. Thank those "geniuses" known as the balance team.

Let's pretend you rotate into a team fight, some dude on the other team is in downstate. So you use choking gas, ofc it doesn't matter and they instantly rez, the downed guy, who then uses one of his gap closer to charge the thief, Who uses death blossom to dodge. Congratulations you just used up 13 of 15 initiative, Fear not though if you wait a tick you will be able to launch an OP dancing dagger before spending the rest of the fight spamming 1. Oh did I not mention they nerfed auto attack damage....

The reality is every single melee profession is going obsolute due to AOE spam and mobility. which they refuse to do a pass on.Different mechanics used but the same can be said for Warriors and P. Rev's. There already on the decline.

power rev on decline? are we playing the same game ?choking gas for example is the same for all classes not just thief, if I throw all my GS burst to cleave and CC and enemy gets picked up anyways imM1 bot too, even worse, im M1 bot that cant dodge. you still have 2-3 dodges to spare, stea,shadowste, roll for ini, you get ini back for stealing and during choking and dodging it regens. every single game since I started playing has thief in it. All the top is made up mostly of thiefs but you people still complain

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Zoid.2568" said:Every class can 1vs1 but not all builds can 1vs1.

Good Luck trying to make understand this to the whole "but but...that streamer run this build" generation...

[lare.5129]

no, it not should. Some 2 non meta can be killed by one meta. And this is OK. And great !!Not meta? try you luck on rng matchmaking.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Highlie.7641" said:Initiative costs are the only reason thieves can't duel or team fight. Thank those "geniuses" known as the balance team.

Let's pretend you rotate into a team fight, some dude on the other team is in downstate. So you use choking gas, ofc it doesn't matter and they instantly rez, the downed guy, who then uses one of his gap closer to charge the thief, Who uses death blossom to dodge. Congratulations you just used up 13 of 15 initiative, Fear not though if you wait a tick you will be able to launch an OP dancing dagger before spending the rest of the fight spamming 1. Oh did I not mention they nerfed auto attack damage....

The reality is every single melee profession is going obsolute due to AOE spam and mobility. which they refuse to do a pass on.Different mechanics used but the same can be said for Warriors and P. Rev's. There already on the decline.

power rev on decline? are we playing the same game ?choking gas for example is the same for all classes not just thief, if I throw all my GS burst to cleave and CC and enemy gets picked up anyways imM1 bot too, even worse, im M1 bot that cant dodge. you still have 2-3 dodges to spare, stea,shadowste, roll for ini, you get ini back for stealing and during choking and dodging it regens. every single game since I started playing has thief in it. All the top is made up mostly of thiefs but you people still complain

Except ... you can swap weapons? You still have an entire weaponset full of untouched cooldowns. Initiative makes weaponswapping for extra cooldowns impossible. Its also funny that you think the thief has dodges to spare but you dont, or that the thief has utility skills but you, somehow, dont. Also the 2 following things are blatant lies. We had large periods of time where thief was a rarity due it being not meta (Most of HoT comes to mind), and the top doesnt really have a lot of thieves.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Zoid.2568 said:Every class can 1vs1 but not all builds can 1vs1.

Nah. Thief cant 1v1. Which is by design. The reason they cant is because of their mobility. And since every build uses shortbow 5 and has the same mobility (since thief gets nothing from picking a second weaponset), none of them can 1v1. If they could, that would be an issue.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

then that means every class needs good sustain (heals), active defense (blinds, blocks, evades), mobility, burst, and cc. oh wait that is what anet has been trying to do since hot and its been a catastrophe. the game needs less one man armies since that is worse for balance.

[Luthan.5236]

The game modes aren't 1 vs. 1. (Even the 2 vs. 2 death match uses 2 people in each team not only 1.)

[Dadnir.5038]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:then that means every class needs good sustain (heals), active defense (blinds, blocks, evades), mobility, burst, and cc. oh wait that is what anet has been trying to do since hot and its been a catastrophe. the game needs less one man armies since that is worse for balance.

Can't help it, as soon as players find themself in front of a build that counter them they ask for this build to be nerfed.Which is also why the suggestion of the OP won't nail anything. Players just don't like to lose and reflect on what they could have done to avoid it. Players just want to have an OP build that could dominate anything they face.The best way to fix that is simply to not have professions in the game. A bunch of weapon that you can randomly find on the map and a standard health bar, nothing more nothing less.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Highlie.7641" said:Initiative costs are the only reason thieves can't duel or team fight. Thank those "geniuses" known as the balance team.

Let's pretend you rotate into a team fight, some dude on the other team is in downstate. So you use choking gas, ofc it doesn't matter and they instantly rez, the downed guy, who then uses one of his gap closer to charge the thief, Who uses death blossom to dodge. Congratulations you just used up 13 of 15 initiative, Fear not though if you wait a tick you will be able to launch an OP dancing dagger before spending the rest of the fight spamming 1. Oh did I not mention they nerfed auto attack damage....

The reality is every single melee profession is going obsolute due to AOE spam and mobility. which they refuse to do a pass on.Different mechanics used but the same can be said for Warriors and P. Rev's. There already on the decline.

power rev on decline? are we playing the same game ?choking gas for example is the same for all classes not just thief, if I throw all my GS burst to cleave and CC and enemy gets picked up anyways imM1 bot too, even worse, im M1 bot that cant dodge. you still have 2-3 dodges to spare, stea,shadowste, roll for ini, you get ini back for stealing and during choking and dodging it regens. every single game since I started playing has thief in it. All the top is made up mostly of thiefs but you people still complain

Except ... you can swap weapons? You still have an entire weaponset full of untouched cooldowns. Initiative makes weaponswapping for extra cooldowns impossible. Its also funny that you think the thief has dodges to spare but you dont, or that the thief has utility skills but you, somehow, dont. Also the 2 following things are blatant lies. We had large periods of time where thief was a rarity due it being not meta (Most of HoT comes to mind), and the top doesnt really have a lot of thieves.

first of all, top not having alot of thiefs is a lie.sec of all I said that I see thiefs in every game since I started playing, not that everyone sees them in every game, since I play mesmer people will more often play thief against me.third of all I gave you perspective of mirage, I wont have dodges against failed cleave, but I dont go on forums crying about it.you calling people on lies is meme worthy, you should seriously stop.

[Colliestinn.4257]

Doesn't really make sense when some classes are built around teamfights.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Highlie.7641" said:Initiative costs are the only reason thieves can't duel or team fight. Thank those "geniuses" known as the balance team.

Let's pretend you rotate into a team fight, some dude on the other team is in downstate. So you use choking gas, ofc it doesn't matter and they instantly rez, the downed guy, who then uses one of his gap closer to charge the thief, Who uses death blossom to dodge. Congratulations you just used up 13 of 15 initiative, Fear not though if you wait a tick you will be able to launch an OP dancing dagger before spending the rest of the fight spamming 1. Oh did I not mention they nerfed auto attack damage....

The reality is every single melee profession is going obsolute due to AOE spam and mobility. which they refuse to do a pass on.Different mechanics used but the same can be said for Warriors and P. Rev's. There already on the decline.

power rev on decline? are we playing the same game ?choking gas for example is the same for all classes not just thief, if I throw all my GS burst to cleave and CC and enemy gets picked up anyways imM1 bot too, even worse, im M1 bot that cant dodge. you still have 2-3 dodges to spare, stea,shadowste, roll for ini, you get ini back for stealing and during choking and dodging it regens. every single game since I started playing has thief in it. All the top is made up mostly of thiefs but you people still complain

Except ... you can swap weapons? You still have an entire weaponset full of untouched cooldowns. Initiative makes weaponswapping for extra cooldowns impossible. Its also funny that you think the thief has dodges to spare but you dont, or that the thief has utility skills but you, somehow, dont. Also the 2 following things are blatant lies. We had large periods of time where thief was a rarity due it being not meta (Most of HoT comes to mind), and the top doesnt really have a lot of thieves.

first of all, top not having alot of thiefs is a lie.

Depends on how you define "a lot". There are thieves at the top. But far as I can tell, theyre not even top 3 most played classes.

sec of all I said that I see thiefs in every game since I started playing, not that everyone sees them in every game, since I play mesmer people will more often play thief against me.

And Im saying thats statistically hilariously unlikely. I didnt see thieves in the majority of games during HoT times. And I played Mesmer every once in a while as well.

third of all I gave you perspective of mirage, I wont have dodges against failed cleave, but I dont go on forums crying about it.

Yeah ok so a couple problems. First, you compared the full GS burst vs Choking gas. Lets ignore that the full GS burst has a much easier time finishing a downed player than choking gas. A more apt comparision would be using just illusionary wave. So already we have a comparision that is made in a way to make the thief look a lot better than it is. Second "I wont have dodges" of course you will. You still have a dodge. You still have blurred frenzy. You still have blink, jaunt, distortion, recharged distortion and potentially mirage mirrors.

you calling people on lies is meme worthy, you should seriously stop.

Man are you still salty that you got duped by that guy fabricating screenshots? What an odd thing to hold a grudge over (And at the wrong guy, too).

[Dantheman.3589]

All classes can 1v1. Rn thief and mirage are the only ones that I would say in meta cannot side node, but if u cannot stall a 1v1 for a decent while on s/d thief or condition mirage then ur just not playing well and that’s not the classes fault but your own.Edit: condition thief is actually a decent side noder rn becuz venom share thief’s guild is used sometimes so even one of less attuned to side noding classes atm can size node. L2P issues

[Zoid.2568]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Zoid.2568 said:Every class can 1vs1 but not all builds can 1vs1.

Nah. Thief cant 1v1. Which is by design. The reason they cant is because of their mobility. And since every build uses shortbow 5 and has the same mobility (since thief gets nothing from picking a second weaponset), none of them can 1v1. If they could, that would be an issue.

I've seen condi dagger thief 1vs2 and win. It's bullshit that thief can't 1vs1.You just need to create a build that works.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Zoid.2568 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Zoid.2568 said:Every class can 1vs1 but not all builds can 1vs1.

Nah. Thief cant 1v1. Which is by design. The reason they cant is because of their mobility. And since every build uses shortbow 5 and has the same mobility (since thief gets nothing from picking a second weaponset), none of them can 1v1. If they could, that would be an issue.

I've seen condi dagger thief 1vs2 and win. It's kitten that thief can't 1vs1.You just need to create a build that works.

I mean Ive seen Druid do that. Sometimes even bad builds can perform way better than theyre supposed to. But against players of equal skill level with a good build? Nah.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Zoid.2568 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Zoid.2568 said:Every class can 1vs1 but not all builds can 1vs1.

Nah. Thief cant 1v1. Which is by design. The reason they cant is because of their mobility. And since every build uses shortbow 5 and has the same mobility (since thief gets nothing from picking a second weaponset), none of them can 1v1. If they could, that would be an issue.

I've seen condi dagger thief 1vs2 and win. It's kitten that thief can't 1vs1.You just need to create a build that works.

I mean Ive seen Druid do that. Sometimes even bad builds can perform way better than theyre supposed to. But against players of equal skill level with a good build? Nah.

I mean core ranger is a good build and yet a druid would be a better MU into condition thief.

[bethekey.8314]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Nah. Thief cant 1v1. Which is by design. The reason they cant is because of their mobility. And since every build uses shortbow 5 and has the same mobility (since thief gets nothing from picking a second weaponset), none of them can 1v1. If they could, that would be an issue.

Inexperienced thieves can't 1v1. And shortbow 5 is a cherry on top for excellent mobility.

[UNOwen.7132]

@bethekey.8314 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Nah. Thief cant 1v1. Which is by design. The reason they cant is because of their mobility. And since every build uses shortbow 5 and has the same mobility (since thief gets nothing from picking a second weaponset), none of them can 1v1. If they could, that would be an issue.

Inexperienced thieves can't 1v1. And shortbow 5 is a cherry on top for excellent mobility.

Experienced thieves cant 1v1 a player of equal skill level either. Sure you might be able to beat a worse player, but you can do that with any build. And shortbow 5 isnt "the cherry on top", its the whole cake. That skill alone defines thief. Its the sole reason they are meta. You can change or remove anything else the thief does, they will still be viable. Remove shortbow 5, and the class vanishes from PvP alltogether.

[bethekey.8314]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Experienced thieves cant 1v1 a player of equal skill level either. Sure you might be able to beat a worse player, but you can do that with any build. And shortbow 5 isnt "the cherry on top", its the whole cake. That skill alone defines thief. Its the sole reason they are meta. You can change or remove anything else the thief does, they will still be viable. Remove shortbow 5, and the class vanishes from PvP alltogether.

https://www.twitch.tv/im_grimjack/clip/TransparentBlitheRamenJKanStyle?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

Here's a rank 1 player getting 1v1'd by a much lower ranked player. Or did you forget already?