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*Pokes Devs* Can we help druid out?


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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Step 1. Make staff playable.no any reason do it. How I understand balance changes is not create some abstract equality of classes and weapons, no way , this only way motivate use another biuld, classes, weapons, and etc.. If someone think that another weapon better - welcome, use other weapon.

Now skilled people use staff and druid biulds, not us. And this is main target of good balance.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context?

Because although you have a very subjective point of view coming from someone who doesn't like playing against Druid, you don't actually understand anything about how the class works, how it plays during practical application, or why certain buffs/nerfs would or would not make a difference in its play at all. Furthermore, it's actually really funny that what you stated saying "turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer" is exactly what my suggestions suggest to do. You're just being blindly biased and don't care about what anyone has to say other than yourself.

You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Eh? What did I say that was wrong? I said that Arenanet should nerf big marks mods and remove Knight's amulet, which is exactly what they did. The only thing I have been wrong on in this forum within the past year or so, a direct statement I made, is when I thought that I could counter some guy's Core Ranger with my Core Necromancer, which when we dueled on laggy EU I could not do with 250+ ping. You win some you lose some. But regardless, you should better discern the difference between your own opinions, and a situation where you could point at someone and say "you are wrong"

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against.

^ That mentality right there has been being widely discussed in several different threads lately. The idea that this forum has degenerated into a mob mentality of players who want things to be removed from play because "they don't like it". I don't know what to say other than I think you're better than that and that you should take the time to give some real feedback that is constructive and non insulting. @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" made a good comment though, that stirs good debate. In a short response I'd say that this isn't something to be worried about right now. Druid heal output has been nerfed so so so hard, that it is FAR from being a bunker right now. Druid players understand that bunker play is trying to be somewhat avoided by Arenanet. Druid players just want Druid to be functional again. These tiny buffs people are asking for would hardly threaten the return of HoT Bunker Druid gameplay. They would need to at least double CA Kit heal output and give blasts on water fields full coefficient for that to ever happen again. Druid players understand they aren't going to do that, which is why they are asking for more damage output. Druid needs buffing, as anyone who plays Guild Wars 2 would clearly be able to identify.

It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Well for people who insist on complaining about everything, I notice that they complain about everything. I mean what do those kinds of forum users NOT consider unfun to play against? Every thread that's written about said given class/build is always detailed as "The easiest cheesiest most annoying thing. Remove it from the game." We both know that's true. So when I read that comment about Druid, I just see the same kind of frustrated finger pointing about cheese as anything else about any other class.

Druid is currently dumpstered. It needs buffs to both Staff and CA Kit.

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@lare.5129 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Step 1. Make staff playable.no any reason do it. How I understand balance changes is not create some abstract equality of classes and weapons, no way , this only way motivate use another biuld, classes, weapons, and etc.. If someone think that another weapon better - welcome, use other weapon.

Now skilled people use staff and druid biulds, not us. And this is main target of good balance.

Druids Staff is one of the worst (if not the worst) weapons in the game.

Auto is a Healing Skill that only works when an enemy is around.Skill 2 also needs an enemy to work.Skill 3 is Movement + Heal + Blast. Which is nice on paper but ingame you very often get to only use of maybe 1-2 of its aspects.Skill 4 is to slow to and you have to decide if you want to clean condition from allies or imob an enemy.

Skill 5 is a waterfield with a cute extra.

Its trash and need a complete rework to become even remotly worth using as it is intendet. A support weapon + utility.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

That's one of the problems actually.

It was balanced so heavily around Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow for so long, that those two trait selections are now completely mandatory for the Druid to be able to engage in combat at all. No joke here about this. The Druid is not functional without the 13 condi clear and stealth/super speed disengage between these two traits. Without the 13 condi clears it can't support enough personal sustain, and without the stealth/super speed the CA Kit actually does not work in competitive skirmish styled combat. Druid can do without Ancient Seeds, and it certainly can do with buffing to other traits, but it needs DC/CS to stay the way that they are now.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

That's one of the problems actually.

It was balanced so heavily around Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow for so long, that those two trait selections are now completely mandatory for the Druid to be able to engage in combat at all. No joke here about this. The Druid is not functional without the 13 condi clear and stealth/super speed disengage between these two traits. Without the 13 condi clears it can't support enough personal sustain, and without the stealth/super speed
the CA Kit actually does not work in competitive skirmish styled combat.
Druid can do without Ancient Seeds, and it certainly can do with buffing to other traits, but it needs DC/CS to stay the way that they are now.

I well remember this ideology because I was the one who made that 300+ posts thread where I suggested to remove Celestial shadow and Ancient seed, the logic behind my suggestions still stand : you cannot have skirmisher and support with the same build...all other builds offering a similar option have been heavily nerfed in the past , look Tempest and scrapper,whose dmg got cut heavily with time.

Leave Druidic Clarity as it is but remove CS and AC and in their place add traits that yes improve the self sustain of druid to facilitate the role but at the same time we can't allow a druid to duel as good as a soulbeast or core ranger

No Anet or the community will allow for the return of bunker druid and god forbid..I don't need any more dmg nerfs on pet or ranger itself ( already expecting nerfs to birds though )

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

Yeah that is a quick fix, you'd also need to increase the radius of cosmic ray a bit, thinking 180 then see if it needs to be a little bigger as it's hard to hit anything moving with it. I'd also increase the healing coefficients a little on cosmic ray and seeds of life.

Staff needs a bit of polish too on the auto if not redesigning tbh as it's good for raids where people stack but not much else.

More than anything Tempest and FB need to have a clear disadvantage vs druid otherwise it will always be a budget support, I'd love to see druid be a meta pick in a heavy rotational comp which doesn't really team fight.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

Yeah that is a quick fix, you'd also need to increase the radius of cosmic ray a bit, thinking 180 then see if it needs to be a little bigger as it's hard to hit anything moving with it. I'd also increase the healing coefficients a little on cosmic ray and seeds of life.

Staff needs a bit of polish too on the auto if not redesigning tbh as it's good for raids where people stack but not much else.

More than anything Tempest and FB need to have a clear disadvantage vs druid otherwise it will always be a budget support, I'd love to see druid be a meta pick in a heavy rotational comp which doesn't really team fight.

Pure support builds don't belong in this game. FBs and tempests do fairly respectable damage and I would consider their meta builds to be hybrid. That's what I want the druid to be. Buffing healing won't do anything at all

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@mistsim.2748 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

Yeah that is a quick fix, you'd also need to increase the radius of cosmic ray a bit, thinking 180 then see if it needs to be a little bigger as it's hard to hit anything moving with it. I'd also increase the healing coefficients a little on cosmic ray and seeds of life.

Staff needs a bit of polish too on the auto if not redesigning tbh as it's good for raids where people stack but not much else.

More than anything Tempest and FB need to have a clear disadvantage vs druid otherwise it will always be a budget support, I'd love to see druid be a meta pick in a heavy rotational comp which doesn't really team fight.

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@mistsim.2748 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

Yeah that is a quick fix, you'd also need to increase the radius of cosmic ray a bit, thinking 180 then see if it needs to be a little bigger as it's hard to hit anything moving with it. I'd also increase the healing coefficients a little on cosmic ray and seeds of life.

Staff needs a bit of polish too on the auto if not redesigning tbh as it's good for raids where people stack but not much else.

More than anything Tempest and FB need to have a clear disadvantage vs druid otherwise it will always be a budget support, I'd love to see druid be a meta pick in a heavy rotational comp which doesn't really team fight.

Pure support builds don't belong in this game. FBs and tempests do fairly respectable damage and I would consider their meta builds to be hybrid. That's what I want the druid to be. Buffing healing won't do anything at all

We start by removing Ancient Seeds and Celestial Shadow, then we do something for the pets while using druid : I seen suggestions to turn pets into spirits/wisps sort of support tools at the cost of any dmg potential and at the same time it would remove the need to have any sort of stats deficiency .

Once removed AS and CS, reworked the pet system for druid, we can then add something to give Druid some more...."punch" but not something that strong to compete with a core ranger or sb when it comes to 1v1

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

Yeah that is a quick fix, you'd also need to increase the radius of cosmic ray a bit, thinking 180 then see if it needs to be a little bigger as it's hard to hit anything moving with it. I'd also increase the healing coefficients a little on cosmic ray and seeds of life.

Staff needs a bit of polish too on the auto if not redesigning tbh as it's good for raids where people stack but not much else.

More than anything Tempest and FB need to have a clear disadvantage vs druid otherwise it will always be a budget support, I'd love to see druid be a meta pick in a heavy rotational comp which doesn't really team fight.

Pure support builds don't belong in this game. FBs and tempests do fairly respectable damage and I would consider their meta builds to be hybrid. That's what I want the druid to be. Buffing healing won't do anything at all

We start by removing Ancient Seeds and Celestial Shadow, then we do something for the pets while using druid : I seen suggestions to turn pets into
spirits/wisps
sort of support tools at the cost of any dmg potential and at the same time it would remove the need to have any sort of stats deficiency .

Once removed AS and CS, reworked the pet system for druid, we can then add something to give Druid some more...."punch" but not something that strong to compete with a core ranger or sb when it comes to 1v1

I'm not sure reworking the pet system is entirely necessary for druid but as part of a wider re balance of pets for the whole class to streamline them a bit more they could certainly keep druid in mind.

Honestly it's a shame shouts were converted to commands, there was always some decent synergy between the shouts and druid which has now been lost.

On the subject of no such thing as pure support, this is largely because the pure support amulets were removed due to past balance problems so even support builds have decent power and precision values or condition values in the case of FB. With damage having been nerfed across the board it does make these support/hybrid builds do more than tickle damage, thing is this would not have been a problem with the old 3 stat amulets.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:
  • Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.
  • Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.
  • Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.
  • Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.
  • Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.
You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

Funny the title says "
Pokes Devs
Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

Just remove Ancient Seed and celestial shadow..done, no ranger will miss them because Druid was supposed to be a support spec and it's not 100% viable atm, would that suffice ?

Yeah that is a quick fix, you'd also need to increase the radius of cosmic ray a bit, thinking 180 then see if it needs to be a little bigger as it's hard to hit anything moving with it. I'd also increase the healing coefficients a little on cosmic ray and seeds of life.

Staff needs a bit of polish too on the auto if not redesigning tbh as it's good for raids where people stack but not much else.

More than anything Tempest and FB need to have a clear disadvantage vs druid otherwise it will always be a budget support, I'd love to see druid be a meta pick in a heavy rotational comp which doesn't really team fight.

Pure support builds don't belong in this game. FBs and tempests do fairly respectable damage and I would consider their meta builds to be hybrid. That's what I want the druid to be. Buffing healing won't do anything at all

We start by removing Ancient Seeds and Celestial Shadow, then we do something for the pets while using druid : I seen suggestions to turn pets into
spirits/wisps
sort of support tools at the cost of any dmg potential and at the same time it would remove the need to have any sort of stats deficiency .

Once removed AS and CS, reworked the pet system for druid, we can then add something to give Druid some more...."punch" but not something that strong to compete with a core ranger or sb when it comes to 1v1

I'm not sure reworking the pet system is entirely necessary for druid but as part of a wider re balance of pets for the whole class to streamline them a bit more they could certainly keep druid in mind.

Honestly it's a shame shouts were converted to commands, there was always some decent synergy between the shouts and druid which has now been lost.

On the subject of no such thing as pure support, this is largely because the pure support amulets were removed due to past balance problems so even support builds have decent power and precision values or condition values in the case of FB. With damage having been nerfed across the board it does make these support/hybrid builds do more than tickle damage, thing is this would not have been a problem with the old 3 stat amulets.

Yep, you are right. Pets are like cards from collectible card games. You don't revamp the system, you just make new cards. With the upcoming expansion they they just need to create a "wisp like, support type" pet instead of another useless cat like pet, easy solution.

Other than that, Druid is not as useless as most of the players here make it sound like. I mostly play druid in platinum PvP and it is playable. Sure I have tons if ideas on how to make druid better, but it seems everybody got their own vision while some even fantasize on a complete revamp, so another suggestion list will be meaningless.

I just wish that druid will stop being collateral damage to core ranger trait-lines balance. A.net should really take it into consideration while making changes.

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I've been one-tricking a healer druid build since the 2v2 mini season, it's really fun and decently effective, but I'd welcome any buffs at all tossed my way.More healing on staff 1 and 3, larger size on staff 5, more utility on staff 4 (I vote for way longer imob, perhaps even spawn tangling roots on enemies hit, though more buff to allies would be nice aswell), making 2 unblockable and maybe heal more would also be great.More importantly though, Celestial Avatar definitely needs some big buffs, CA 1 and 2 need bigger areas, CA 3 is fine, CA 4 needs a healing buff, CA 5 could pulse faster.I think the thing druid got going for it the most are the glyphs, glyph of the stars is really good in a condi heavy scenario, unity provides decent damage in an otherwise healer build, also that one glyph that dazes and break stun is real handy.

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@Swagg.9236 said:How about you try turning Druid into something that isn't just core Ranger with a free heal button?

Tempests and FB's support better, bunker better, and deal way more damage than any druid build. In gw2, if you're not adding pressure in some way, you are entirely useless. If you had any understanding of the game at a higher level, you would know this.

Give druids a bit more damage and utility so they are competitive supports.

Adding more heals is dumb.

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@mistsim.2748 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:How about you try turning Druid into something that isn't just core Ranger with a free heal button?

Tempests and FB's support better, bunker better, and deal way more damage than any druid build. In gw2, if you're not adding pressure in some way, you are entirely useless. If you had any understanding of the game at a higher level, you would know this.

Give druids a bit more damage and utility so they are competitive supports.

Adding more heals is dumb.

Honestly, adding outright is dumb. Ranger is one of the worst offenders when it comes to elite specs directly upgrading the core set. While things like FB dealing damage and healing simultaneously is terrible for the game's creative depth and playstyle diversity, it'd be egregiously bad to try and just match it somehow by buffing what is already a terrible design at a fundamental level. I think the biggest issue really is just how core Ranger is such a terrible design outright. If you can't make pets interesting and useful outside of unchecked gimmick damage with birds/cats or by spamming a single, scripted movement ability, then they need to be re-worked entirely. If Ranger had a functional, core mechanic to them at all, it'd be a lot easier to look at taking away from it in order to side-grade with some other function.

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+1

Kroof: Ranger Profession-Druid Rework

Sympathy for Ranger Profession-Druid

Druid was the best specialization than all the other specializations. Druid fitted Ranger Profession perfectly. In fact, it was able to compete with both Thief/Mesmer Profession at the same time and win. Druid was the only Professions to meet them at their level and challenge them equally without breaking a sweat. In other word, Druid was the biggest threat to top both Mesmer and Thief Profession together.

The calls to nerf them especially by these two Meta Professions were heard by Anet and Druid fell into non-existent. Unlike Thief/Mesmer Profession, Druid helped contributed greatly and equally to other Professions experiences.

Personally, it would take a miracle to bring Druid back to its level...while Thief and Mesmer Profession continues to secure their monopoly and their abuse to the Meta

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@"Burnfall.9573" I like her train of thought but honestly her suggestions for CA Kit are lack luster, and the suggestion she gives for "how CA Kit functions mechanically" like how to charge it, use it, and it's flat duration, would actually make CA Kit even less viable than it is now.

These Druid suggestions are too artsy lately. It doesn't need a revision of the class, it just needs slight buffs. Druid still holds an MvP slot in meta pve groups. What it lacks is viability competitively. Again, it does not need massive revisions for this. It just needs slight buffing.

I'd also like to point out that none of the hardcore Druid players are asking for revisions. They're asking for direct buffs.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Burnfall.9573" I like her train of thought but honestly her suggestions for CA Kit are lack luster, and the suggestion she gives for "how CA Kit functions mechanically" like how to charge it, use it, and it's flat duration, would actually make CA Kit even less viable than it is now.

These Druid suggestions are too artsy lately. It doesn't need a revision of the class, it just needs slight buffs. Druid still holds an MvP slot in meta pve groups. What it lacks is viability competitively. Again, it does not need massive revisions for this. It just needs slight buffing.

I'd also like to point out that none of the hardcore Druid players are asking for revisions. They're asking for direct buffs.

i understand Trevor

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