Dlegend.1682 Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 Returned to the game after a break about 3 weeks ago, and have been trying to get back into the game. Mesmer main for past 5 years and its so unenjoyable in pvp/wvw. Short of playing condi mirage cancer and in pve, Power mesmers are absolute garbage. Thought it was a case of "get gud", but after spending roughly a week on each spec (core/chrono/mirage) trying to "get gud" I've come to the realisation that power mesmers are unplayable. Sure you might get a decent spike on a thief from time to time if you catch him, but even then... lllanding your full damage combo to get 50-70% dmg on the target requires you to spec fulll glass cannon with 0 utility and survivablity to do that kinda damage. meanwhile all other classes are allowed to maintain their sustain and damage with reasonable trade offs. Theres just no way to keep decent pressure up on a power mesmer, and also not enough spike damage to nuke poepel. Its actually disgusting. Im guessing Arena Net, got alot of flack from poeplle running condi mirage, but rather than balancing the class appropriately where the problem was (in the condi burst) they nuked the spec as a whole and now we cant do any viable builds? PS. sorry for the rant. Just saddened by the state of the game like this. Sure could respec to another class, but feeling forced into condi or changing classes all together feels really shit in an mmo since build diversity should be encourage. Hopefull the next expansion could bring power mesmers back.
thundermarch.5643 Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 Was hoping a mid range DPS weapon in the new spe as we lack of something to damage fromage distant in a heavy aoe fight The pistol MH or a dagger MH and could be fun to play with other mesmer second hand weapon
viquing.8254 Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 Just wait for everyone to see the disparition of mesmers in PvP.It started recently with no mesmers in semi mAt, LB ins't better.Because it's not only on power spec, even on condi it's subpar in PvP even by having intensive teamplay.Note that on the few mesmers left, half I meet (plat EU) play power in PvP.
Leonidrex.5649 Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 @viquing.8254 said:Just wait for everyone to see the disparition of mesmers in PvP.It started recently with no mesmers in semi mAt, LB ins't better.Because it's not only on power spec, even on condi it's subpar in PvP even by having intensive teamplay.Note that on the few mesmers left, half I meet (plat EU) play power in PvP.This season I honestly felt like I could pull more weight with power mirage then condi, untill everyone started playing cthief ofc ;pThe current cmirage variants are very different to the last seasons, you DONT get free chip damage from illusions, they are all melee, they are burst oriented like power mirage.they are full melee so power mirage can gain some safty by standing at a distance and thief is less broken ( other then cthief ) so power mirage even with 1 less dodge can fight back much more ( at least this is what I feel ).I just found cmirage to be very close to powermirage, the only real differences that puts cmirage ahead is that they dont need to use the dodge key for damage/burst, can afford to take EM much more then power and have extra dodge from axe 3 and its much easier to set the burst up due to hard CC from p5.
viquing.8254 Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@viquing.8254 said:Just wait for everyone to see the disparition of mesmers in PvP.It started recently with no mesmers in semi mAt, LB ins't better.Because it's not only on power spec, even on condi it's subpar in PvP even by having intensive teamplay.Note that on the few mesmers left, half I meet (plat EU) play power in PvP.This season I honestly felt like I could pull more weight with power mirage then condi, untill everyone started playing cthief ofc ;pThe current cmirage variants are very different to the last seasons, you DONT get free chip damage from illusions, they are all melee, they are burst oriented like power mirage.they are full melee so power mirage can gain some safty by standing at a distance and thief is less broken ( other then cthief ) so power mirage even with 1 less dodge can fight back much more ( at least this is what I feel ).I just found cmirage to be very close to powermirage, the only real differences that puts cmirage ahead is that they dont need to use the dodge key for damage/burst, can afford to take EM much more then power and have extra dodge from axe 3 and its much easier to set the burst up due to hard CC from p5.Actually I play condi when I face rev/holo and power in other situations.MoD hard-counter PD thieves and if you rupt condi thief heal it's free kill.So yeah apart when you have to condi pressure or boonclear versus rev/holo, I also found that power give more value msot of time.
Quadox.7834 Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 @viquing.8254 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@viquing.8254 said:Just wait for everyone to see the disparition of mesmers in PvP.It started recently with no mesmers in semi mAt, LB ins't better.Because it's not only on power spec, even on condi it's subpar in PvP even by having intensive teamplay.Note that on the few mesmers left, half I meet (plat EU) play power in PvP.This season I honestly felt like I could pull more weight with power mirage then condi, untill everyone started playing cthief ofc ;pThe current cmirage variants are very different to the last seasons, you DONT get free chip damage from illusions, they are all melee, they are burst oriented like power mirage.they are full melee so power mirage can gain some safty by standing at a distance and thief is less broken ( other then cthief ) so power mirage even with 1 less dodge can fight back much more ( at least this is what I feel ).I just found cmirage to be very close to powermirage, the only real differences that puts cmirage ahead is that they dont need to use the dodge key for damage/burst, can afford to take EM much more then power and have extra dodge from axe 3 and its much easier to set the burst up due to hard CC from p5.Actually I play condi when I face rev/holo and power in other situations.MoD hard-counter PD thieves and if you rupt condi thief heal it's free kill.So yeah apart when you have to condi pressure or boonclear versus rev/holo, I also found that power give more value msot of time.are you not running domi on power?
viquing.8254 Posted May 10, 2020 Posted May 10, 2020 @Quadox.7834 said:@viquing.8254 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@viquing.8254 said:Just wait for everyone to see the disparition of mesmers in PvP.It started recently with no mesmers in semi mAt, LB ins't better.Because it's not only on power spec, even on condi it's subpar in PvP even by having intensive teamplay.Note that on the few mesmers left, half I meet (plat EU) play power in PvP.This season I honestly felt like I could pull more weight with power mirage then condi, untill everyone started playing cthief ofc ;pThe current cmirage variants are very different to the last seasons, you DONT get free chip damage from illusions, they are all melee, they are burst oriented like power mirage.they are full melee so power mirage can gain some safty by standing at a distance and thief is less broken ( other then cthief ) so power mirage even with 1 less dodge can fight back much more ( at least this is what I feel ).I just found cmirage to be very close to powermirage, the only real differences that puts cmirage ahead is that they dont need to use the dodge key for damage/burst, can afford to take EM much more then power and have extra dodge from axe 3 and its much easier to set the burst up due to hard CC from p5.Actually I play condi when I face rev/holo and power in other situations.MoD hard-counter PD thieves and if you rupt condi thief heal it's free kill.So yeah apart when you have to condi pressure or boonclear versus rev/holo, I also found that power give more value msot of time.are you not running domi on power?I am on domi/duel/mirage.
Dlegend.1682 Posted May 11, 2020 Author Posted May 11, 2020 i find i have to hold my burst in fights and try to get pressure from teamies. I wont even lie about it, i struggle to 1v1 against most classes at this point because i cant apply constant pressure anymore as power, and when I burst, if I miss calculate, the enemies are usualy left with juust enough hp to heal up in which case I have to disengage and reset.Its not the end of the world in duels/roaming, but in pvp thats a good few seconds or minutes gone because the current gamemode is based around being able to bunker down for ages.surely people get bored of just running guardians/necros/tempests that do no damage and just tank all day long??But as I said, maybe im just bad at this. SMH
Koen.1327 Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 anyone plays with dps meter?i think on 'condi' mirage the power dmg is probably as high as the condidomi/illu/mirage build
hologramm.5769 Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/power/Do i have anything more to say? If you go for Self-Sustain just swap the Domi-Traitline for Illusion Mid-Mid-Up. Youll have perma Quickness, 25Might, Fury and even some Alac. Its one of the best Power-Classes for Raids and Open-WorldAh yes you can even go for Range with GS (tho ofc if you just afk on gs and dont swap weapons youll lose dps).
Woltarion.6829 Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 @"hologramm.5769" said:https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/power/Do i have anything more to say? If you go for Self-Sustain just swap the Domi-Traitline for Illusion Mid-Mid-Up. Youll have perma Quickness, 25Might, Fury and even some Alac. Its one of the best Power-Classes for Raids and Open-WorldAh yes you can even go for Range with GS (tho ofc if you just afk on gs and dont swap weapons youll lose dps).Fine for Pve and Open world, total garbage for PvP or WvW
Dlegend.1682 Posted May 11, 2020 Author Posted May 11, 2020 @Koen.1327 said:anyone plays with dps meter?i think on 'condi' mirage the power dmg is probably as high as the condidomi/illu/mirage buildCondi mirage is so retarded, i literaly played condi mirage in berzerker gears and still nuked poeple in 1v1. but tickle them in zerker gear with a power build. How dumb
Xca.9721 Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 @Woltarion.6829 said:@"hologramm.5769" said:https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/power/Do i have anything more to say? If you go for Self-Sustain just swap the Domi-Traitline for Illusion Mid-Mid-Up. Youll have perma Quickness, 25Might, Fury and even some Alac. Its one of the best Power-Classes for Raids and Open-WorldAh yes you can even go for Range with GS (tho ofc if you just afk on gs and dont swap weapons youll lose dps).Fine for Pve and Open world, total garbage for PvP or WvWBecause this site is for PvE only maybe? ..
Woltarion.6829 Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 @Xca.9721 said:@Woltarion.6829 said:@"hologramm.5769" said:https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/power/Do i have anything more to say? If you go for Self-Sustain just swap the Domi-Traitline for Illusion Mid-Mid-Up. Youll have perma Quickness, 25Might, Fury and even some Alac. Its one of the best Power-Classes for Raids and Open-WorldAh yes you can even go for Range with GS (tho ofc if you just afk on gs and dont swap weapons youll lose dps).Fine for Pve and Open world, total garbage for PvP or WvWBecause this site is for PvE only maybe? ..No, but the OP was talking about nuking people, so I thought it was about PvP content
Dlegend.1682 Posted May 11, 2020 Author Posted May 11, 2020 @Xca.9721 said:@Woltarion.6829 said:@"hologramm.5769" said:https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/power/Do i have anything more to say? If you go for Self-Sustain just swap the Domi-Traitline for Illusion Mid-Mid-Up. Youll have perma Quickness, 25Might, Fury and even some Alac. Its one of the best Power-Classes for Raids and Open-WorldAh yes you can even go for Range with GS (tho ofc if you just afk on gs and dont swap weapons youll lose dps).Fine for Pve and Open world, total garbage for PvP or WvWBecause this site is for PvE only maybe? ..Specifically talkong about PVP and WVW. PVE is fine in raids becasue you dont need to take any utility. problem is to have any decent damage/ sustain in pvp you need to work stupidly hard for mediocre results
Perfect.1359 Posted May 11, 2020 Posted May 11, 2020 Specifically talkong about PVP and WVW. PVE is fine in raids becasue you dont need to take any utility. problem is to have any decent damage/ sustain in pvp you need to work stupidly hard for mediocre resultsThis so much. The effort a mesmer puts vs any non mesmer enemy is huge compared to the non mesmer. And the mesmer dies if they make like one or two mistakes, other classes can recover much much easier.
Woltarion.6829 Posted May 13, 2020 Posted May 13, 2020 Anet was able to reverse the rollback, now it should be more than capable to reverse chrono's change !
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted May 16, 2020 Posted May 16, 2020 In every competetive game, there are 2 things that influence the balance. Actual balance and conterplay for the oponent/enjoyment for the oponent.If something has no counterplay, then it needs to be weaker so the no counterplay thing comes only when skill is diferent. From forums post, it is clear that ther was no enjoyment fkr oponents. Thats why mesmer is underpowered now
Infusion.7149 Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 @"hologramm.5769" said:https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/power/Do i have anything more to say? If you go for Self-Sustain just swap the Domi-Traitline for Illusion Mid-Mid-Up. Youll have perma Quickness, 25Might, Fury and even some Alac. Its one of the best Power-Classes for Raids and Open-WorldAh yes you can even go for Range with GS (tho ofc if you just afk on gs and dont swap weapons youll lose dps).Did you even read the page you linked? If the slow uptime is poor the damage is a lot worse as you lose all the danger time bonuses (10% critical damage as well as 15% critical chance) in addition to the damage bonus on the F1 Shatter (Split Second has a 33% increase to slowed targets). That's why it's typically run with 10 chronos , good luck getting a random group of 10 people to run that proficiently. It also assumes clones don't die randomly.How is perma quickness relevant unless it is applied to other people? Reaper has quickness in shroud as well and Firebrand has quickness for everyone. Also, the topic is on PvP/WVW.As for the topic, clone generation is poor in both PvP/WvW unless you run scepter because you're limited to clones on dodges and via clone generating skills that need targets such as Illusionary Leap on sword (12s base cooldown) , Illusionary Riposte (15s base cooldown) and Mirror Blade on greatsword (8s base cooldown). Let's not forget oftentimes Blurred Frenzy deals more or close to as much damage to you when the target has retaliation since it's not an invuln , only an evade.Essentially you would need to run core mesmer for power damage like most people to do to use the shatters (whether it is Distortion/Diversion or Mind Wrack for damage) reliably without settling for one dodge (mirage).
Daishi.6027 Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:In every competetive game, there are 2 things that influence the balance. Actual balance and conterplay for the oponent/enjoyment for the oponent.If something has no counterplay, then it needs to be weaker so the no counterplay thing comes only when skill is diferent. From forums post, it is clear that ther was no enjoyment fkr oponents. Thats why mesmer is underpowered nowI don't know about enjoyment but even way before any of these nerfs came Power Mesmer/Mirage in enlou of stealth has the most counter play of anything else in game, and the fairest burst. Even with stealth it does not have the same 'on demand' up time as thief or even ranger, and mes has much tighter burst windows to play around.Also what about a mesmer players enjoyment? It's not fun to fight against anything left in the roster when you're at such a handicap that every fight is an up hill battle. Sounds like just another double standard to me.Even in the PvP forums when they complain about condi damage numbers where everyone is doing upwards of 40k - 100k Mes barely puts out 20k, lol.If they are going to complain no matter what they might as well make it a balanced 1v1 duelist where it can deal with anything, but anything can equally deal with it. Where bads will be bad and cry regardless.
Leonidrex.5649 Posted May 17, 2020 Posted May 17, 2020 I think I might go back to PU mesmer, that way I might be able to at least take 50% of someones HP quickly, instead of relying on enemies eating 3clone shatter and spamming confusion for any hopes of killing anything
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 @Daishi.6027 said:@"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:In every competetive game, there are 2 things that influence the balance. Actual balance and conterplay for the oponent/enjoyment for the oponent.If something has no counterplay, then it needs to be weaker so the no counterplay thing comes only when skill is diferent. From forums post, it is clear that ther was no enjoyment fkr oponents. Thats why mesmer is underpowered nowI don't know about enjoyment but even way before any of these nerfs came Power Mesmer/Mirage in enlou of stealth has the most counter play of anything else in game, and the fairest burst. Even with stealth it does not have the same 'on demand' up time as thief or even ranger, and mes has much tighter burst windows to play around.Also what about a mesmer players enjoyment? It's not fun to fight against anything left in the roster when you're at such a handicap that every fight is an up hill battle. Sounds like just another double standard to me.Even in the PvP forums when they complain about condi damage numbers where everyone is doing upwards of 40k - 100k Mes barely puts out 20k, lol.If they are going to complain no matter what they might as well make it a balanced 1v1 duelist where it can deal with anything, but anything can equally deal with it. Where bads will be bad and cry regardless.I dont play pvp here so i might not get enough information. But from other competetive games I play, i saw numerous times that if something is unfun to play against, then it should be underpowered. Also the balancing is either for "casuals" or for "tryhards". You cannot balance both at the same time because diferent classes have diferent skill requirements.The main problem here is that the patches are just too slow. If you want healthy pvp game then patches needs to happen at least once every month. With hotfixes if something is way out of line. It takes players a day to figure everything out but the changes comes after few months to fix that.Even if mesmer will be changed to something useful, then something else will be op and it will take few months to change that.The idea about your enjoyment is that if you outplay oponent with a class like this (weaker but without counterplay) then you didnt give enemy a chance.
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:@Daishi.6027 said:@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:In every competetive game, there are 2 things that influence the balance. Actual balance and conterplay for the oponent/enjoyment for the oponent.If something has no counterplay, then it needs to be weaker so the no counterplay thing comes only when skill is diferent. From forums post, it is clear that ther was no enjoyment fkr oponents. Thats why mesmer is underpowered nowI don't know about enjoyment but even way before any of these nerfs came Power Mesmer/Mirage in enlou of stealth has the most counter play of anything else in game, and the fairest burst. Even with stealth it does not have the same 'on demand' up time as thief or even ranger, and mes has much tighter burst windows to play around.Also what about a mesmer players enjoyment? It's not fun to fight against anything left in the roster when you're at such a handicap that every fight is an up hill battle. Sounds like just another double standard to me.Even in the PvP forums when they complain about condi damage numbers where everyone is doing upwards of 40k - 100k Mes barely puts out 20k, lol.If they are going to complain no matter what they might as well make it a balanced 1v1 duelist where it can deal with anything, but anything can equally deal with it. Where bads will be bad and cry regardless.I dont play pvp here so i might not get enough information. But from other competetive games I play, i saw numerous times that if something is unfun to play against, then it should be underpowered. Also the balancing is either for "casuals" or for "tryhards". You cannot balance both at the same time because diferent classes have diferent skill requirements.The main problem here is that the patches are just too slow. If you want healthy pvp game then patches needs to happen at least once every month. With hotfixes if something is way out of line. It takes players a day to figure everything out but the changes comes after few months to fix that.Even if mesmer will be changed to something useful, then something else will be op and it will take few months to change that.The idea about your enjoyment is that if you outplay oponent with a class like this (weaker but without counterplay) then you didnt give enemy a chance. Unfun to fight against is subjective.You can't balance according to "unfun to fight against", you're opening a pandora's box.I, for example, absolutely despise fighting holos, it is extremely unfun for me. Shall we make it underpowered so no one plays it?
Dlegend.1682 Posted May 18, 2020 Author Posted May 18, 2020 I have to disagree with the "unfun to play against topic". Power mesmer is useless in almost every aspect. No1 is scared to go against a power memser because of how shit it is. All out burst and sustain is funneled into our clones/ illusion. trying to be confusing so that opponents cannot tell the difference between us an them. But its completely uselss since damn near every other class has a ton of aoe dmgg skills that make out clones go bye bye almost immediatley on summon. then your sitting there tickling the opponent with greatsword 1 or running away.
Junkpile.7439 Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 What? You actually make clones and try to confuse enemy? That sounds so stupid that i haven't ever even try it. I just go full burst and if enemy doesn't die i go find other target.
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