How to deal with toxicity

[Elegie.3620]

Dear ANet.

Playing your PvP, I've been insulted, mocked and told to go die many times. I've stopped playing regularly because of these behaviors. However, when I happen to fancy a game, I now enjoy the game mode by hiding all chat, and at the end of the gaming session, I go and block everyone having demonstrated irrespect to other fellow players. This works well, although I slightly regret I cannot react on strategies written in chat, or make new friends.

Today, being in a good mood, I'd like to offer, for free, a suggestion on how you could deal with toxicity. This is one of the metaphors I've been using at work, when coaching junior programmers into becoming strong professionals (I read it first in the Pragmatic Programmer, a book I'd wager most of your devs are familiar with).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

Kind regards.

[Alatar.7364]

So I have Read through most of the Theory, and I like it.But I have a hard time figuring out how would you make that work in a Game. So far, the prevention of such behaviour would be stopping the "signs" from happening. Yet, Toxicity is a first and only sign of... itslef, Toxicity. Does that mean the only solution to make this Theory work in game would be immidiet and harsh punishments for Verbal Insults? How would that work? Program that would recognize Insults/ vulgarism, and 'Insta-Block' the Offenders rights to use Chat for a specific amount of Time?Sorry, If I am missing the Point, but this really caught my attention, so I'd appreciate help in Understading that.

[Sarrs.4831]

@Alatar.7364 said:But I have a hard time figuring out how would you make that work in a Game.

At the end of the day it's really impossible for the developers or the support team to do this. It's ultimately up to the playerbase to create the kind of atmosphere that they want to play in.

[Alatar.7364]

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:But I have a hard time figuring out how would you make that work in a Game.

At the end of the day it's really impossible for the developers or the support team to do this. It's ultimately up to the playerbase to create the kind of atmosphere that they want to play in.

Might be.I guess One Thing is monitoring a Public property from damage and protecting Citizens from Material and Physical harm and the Other thing is preventing People from, well, being stupid. Wheter we like it or not, it is still part of Freedom of Speech, thats why there is Profanity filter involved. After all, I got once flamed for saying that Toxicity is not Anets fault nor that Anet can do something against it without breaking certain "rights", though "rights" might be too much of a word, more like "moral norms".

[NeedCoffee.1402]

The Broken Window theory shouldn't just be a theory. It should be accepted fact.Unfortunately there is a political component to the theory. The left (especially the European left) believe things like public urination, or grafitti are beautiful and have nothing to do with the downfall of society.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Alatar.7364 said:So I have Read through most of the Theory, and I like it.But I have a hard time figuring out how would you make that work in a Game. So far, the prevention of such behaviour would be stopping the "signs" from happening.

Guilds that have strict enforcement policies on being needlessly/flagrantly toxic to other individuals and eject people promptly after a concrete threshold would create this environment. Most people are toxic on the internet because they feel there is no repercussion for being as vile as possible. Add a detriment to that and you both give people a reason to take their bile elsewhere or get ejected.

[Duzik.9137]

Okay , so if you participate in team match up and you do not perform good enough , you will be mocked , in general if you play unranked , you get less of that. But what you can expect , same would be if you go for the raid unperpared , without studying how the stuff works. So my advice to you , accept criticism , learn and try to improve. If you cant handle either of those , maybe you should try other aspects of the game. Keep in mind , by performing bad you let your team down.

ps. No need to drag others into it , it has nothing to do with them , it is most likely to do with you ...

[troops.8276]

Well that theory and others like it, and how its been implemented, has a lot of detractors.

There's an interesting talk about the early days of the internet when it was smaller and self policing and how online etiquette was begining, which I can't now find anywhere. Then it went big, that went out the window and us silly human animals ruined it all. This toxicity is everywhere.

A lot of it is based around the time immigration lawyers Laurence Canter and Martha Siegel sent out some of the first spam. If I could find it that is.

[troops.8276]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:So I have Read through most of the Theory, and I like it.But I have a hard time figuring out how would you make that work in a Game. So far, the prevention of such behaviour would be stopping the "signs" from happening.

Guilds that have strict enforcement policies on being needlessly/flagrantly toxic to other individuals and eject people promptly after a concrete threshold would create this environment. Most people are toxic on the internet because they feel there is no repercussion for being as vile as possible. Add a detriment to that and you both give people a reason to take their bile elsewhere or get ejected.

+1

[Duzik.9137]

@troops.8276 said:Well that theory and others like it, and how its been implemented, has a lot of detractors.

There's an interesting talk about the early days of the internet when it was smaller and self policing and how online etiquette was begining, which I can't now find anywhere. Then it went big, that went out the window and us silly human animals ruined it all. This toxicity is everywhere.

A lot of it is based around the time immigration lawyers Laurence Canter and Martha Siegel sent out some of the first spam. If I could find it that is.

I have no idea what you are talking about , playing online since the start of Ultima Online , trolls , scammers , insulters were all around the place , the only difference was that there was less of those , cause most of the audience was mature people , but still, there was enough. If you cant adapt to that , maybe its not for you

[STIHL.2489]

What they really need to do, is return to making it so that PvP dailies can be completed in Private Arena's, this will eliminate all the people crowding the Ranked/Unranked/Tournament PvP Arena's while just trying to get some dailies done.

A large part of dealing with toxic level people is keeping them limited to their own circles.

[troops.8276]

@Duzik.9137 said:

@troops.8276 said:Well that theory and others like it, and how its been implemented, has a lot of detractors.

There's an interesting talk about the early days of the internet when it was smaller and self policing and how online etiquette was begining, which I can't now find anywhere. Then it went big, that went out the window and us silly human animals ruined it all. This toxicity is everywhere.

A lot of it is based around the time immigration lawyers Laurence Canter and Martha Siegel sent out some of the first spam. If I could find it that is.

I have no idea what you are talking about , playing online since the start of Ultima Online , trolls , scammers , insulters were all around the place , the only difference was that there was less of those , cause most of the audience was mature people , but still, there was enough. If you cant adapt to that , maybe its not for you

It's more of a general thing about the attitudes that people bring with them into online interactions and how it came to be this way.

Pvp in gw2 isn't unique nor the cause. My primary school was one of the first in my country to have a computer, some 35 years ago now. None of the teachers even knew how to turn it on. The first program we ran was 'bat n ball' and all 40 of us in the class fought to see who was the best. There was all sorts of joshing but more akin to what the wicket keepers say to the batsman in cricket than the inane "go kill yourself" nonsense we get now.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Unfortunately, humans are naturally toxic. It just happens that some people try to become better beings, others not.

[theodor.3480]

To be honest, toxicity comes from many sources (aka self-entitlement, superiority complex in online environments, etc.). One method to deal with it is to ignore it, or just treat it as a tv commercial. When you know you did your best and know how to take a constructive criticism and ignore the self-entitled pricks you can get a decentish life in pvp.

Just adapt to the enviroment.P.S - sorry for the long rant.

[brannigan.9831]

My advice is if you suck to get better. If you are actually good just block x player. Both of those things should take care of 99% of it.

[Smite.3087]

@Elegie.3620 said:Dear ANet.

Playing your PvP, I've been insulted, mocked and told to go die many times.

I've never had this happen to me, but seen it a few times, in a lot of matches, I've however noticed that the lower ranks you queue at, the more toxic people become, and in plat I've seen this like once.I do think you should grow a waay thicker skin however if words on the internet from complete strangers makes you stop playing a game mode.

[Ara.4569]

Toxicity can't be easily repressed, but it can be redirected.

When I fail at rotations, die in 1v1s, or make a bad call between cleave, stomp or rez, and get insulted, sometimes I reply something like:- If ANet doesn't care, why would I ?It's not great but in a few cases it deflected toxicity towards ANet.By the way, I'm taking suggestions to achieve that goal better.

There was also a few games where both teams united to blame "balance" or matchmaker. It's always beautiful to witness.

In all ages and cultures there are scapegoats.And I don't see this habit going away anytime soon, so, better make sure it doesn't end up being you.

[Malafaia.8903]

@Duzik.9137 said:Okay , so if you participate in team match up and you do not perform good enough , you will be mocked , in general if you play unranked , you get less of that. But what you can expect , same would be if you go for the raid unperpared , without studying how the stuff works. So my advice to you , accept criticism , learn and try to improve. If you cant handle either of those , maybe you should try other aspects of the game. Keep in mind , by performing bad you let your team down.

ps. No need to drag others into it , it has nothing to do with them , it is most likely to do with you ...

There's a HUGE gap between construtive criticism and toxicity.

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Malafaia.8903 said:

@Duzik.9137 said:Okay , so if you participate in team match up and you do not perform good enough , you will be mocked , in general if you play unranked , you get less of that. But what you can expect , same would be if you go for the raid unperpared , without studying how the stuff works. So my advice to you , accept criticism , learn and try to improve. If you cant handle either of those , maybe you should try other aspects of the game. Keep in mind , by performing bad you let your team down.

ps. No need to drag others into it , it has nothing to do with them , it is most likely to do with you ...

There's a HUGE gap between construtive criticism and toxicity.

There is also toxic criticism.

[NeedCoffee.1402]

While we're talking about philosophies and toxicities.There is a book called "how to win friends and influence people" that teaches there is no such thing as constructive criticism. All criticism is negative.

[MyPuppy.8970]

It's positive negativity.

[Crinn.7864]

@NeedCoffee.1402 said:While we're talking about philosophies and toxicities.There is a book called "how to win friends and influence people" that teaches there is no such thing as constructive criticism. All criticism is negative.

That book is mostly about manipulating people, and really should not be taking as a standard for behavior.

It is certainly correct in that criticism is always interpreted negativity, however criticism is absolutely necessary for progress. Without criticism people end up stuck in bubbles of self-delusion.

[DBZVelena.5186]

You guys do realize that verbal abuse in the category "go kill your self" is reportable and the offenders WILL get banned. But only if YOU the players actively report such talk. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Even if the comments aren't directed at you, they are still in violation of ToS.If you don't help by reporting such things, the people who do this kind of thing will continue doing it. "Cus A-net doesn't do anything about it anyway". Except what A-net doesn't get notified about, they can not take action against.

And just so you know, to report somebody, right click their name in chat and select report in the drop down menu.

[troops.8276]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://jultika.oulu.fi/files/nbnfioulu-201706022379.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwil3__9zenWAhWFWxoKHdkiDWsQFghdMAY&usg=AOvVaw32FuxE3OIj39dBSuYkkl0A

It's quite interesting, though a long read and may not really say anything that new. Also admits that its not really that robust a research paper but none the less, I've read some of the studiesit references in the past and I feel it is well put together.

Certainly there's a strong suggestion that toxic behaviour can be detrimental to player retention and activity, which Anet should really take note of.

I will quote a section that is a sort of best industry practise;

Tier one - pre-emptiveSkill based mmAnti cheat softwareWell defined and compact rules

Tier two - reactivePlayer tools: mute or blacklistPlayer tools: report offendsVisible stance on toxic behaviour from the gaming company

Tier three - personal servicePersonal customer support.

Add to that promoting fair play by the gaming company (what I think the op means) and that the ultimate responsibility of somebody's behaviour lies with them (general consensus of this thread including myself).

On acceptance and 'growing a thicker skin' there is similarities between patterns of abusive relationships and detachment disorder. (Strictly personal view)

I think Azure the Heartless post near the top would be a good direction to go in. Imagine you had to be in a guild to enter pvp in any form.

EDIT: this is not just about sPvP in GW2 but about online interactions in general.

[Faux Play.6104]

@troops.8276 said:https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://jultika.oulu.fi/files/nbnfioulu-201706022379.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwil3__9zenWAhWFWxoKHdkiDWsQFghdMAY&usg=AOvVaw32FuxE3OIj39dBSuYkkl0A

It's quite interesting, though a long read and may not really say anything that new. Also admits that its not really that robust a research paper but none the less, I've read some of the studiesit references in the past and I feel it is well put together.

Certainly there's a strong suggestion that toxic behaviour can be detrimental to player retention and activity, which Anet should really take note of.

I will quote a section that is a sort of best industry practise;

Tier one - pre-emptiveSkill based mmAnti cheat softwareWell defined and compact rules

Tier two - reactivePlayer tools: mute or blacklistPlayer tools: report offendsVisible stance on toxic behaviour from the gaming company

Tier three - personal servicePersonal customer support.

Add to that promoting fair play by the gaming company (what I think the op means) and that the ultimate responsibility of somebody's behaviour lies with them (general consensus of this thread including myself).

On acceptance and 'growing a thicker skin' there is similarities between patterns of abusive relationships and detachment disorder. (Strictly personal view)

I think Azure the Heartless post near the top would be a good direction to go in. Imagine you had to be in a guild to enter pvp in any form.

EDIT: this is not just about sPvP in GW2 but about online interactions in general.

You can have a guild of 1person, or a guild of like minded people that like to troll.