diminishing returns in wvw/internal cooldown after disabling CCs abilities to prevent stunlock

[Mikhael.2391]

It is not fun for anyone being stunlocked after using all stun breaks and being stripped of stability by corruptions, more time looking and waiting to die instead of actually fighting. It is something better than has more success in other mmos with pvp modes.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I don't get stunlocked.

Also if you want a 3s ICD then remove stability as it will have no purpose anymore.

You're supposed to dodge, use terrain to your advantage, blind, evade, block, stability, stunbreak, invuln frame your way out of those situations. Pick a couple of those options and don't get stunlocked. More if necessary according to your play style and skill level.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Don't get blobbed down?

D:

[Strider Pj.2193]

3 seconds? Lol..

Why don’t you start a poll saying ‘get rid of CCs’.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if anything increase the icd for stab removal from 0.75 sec to 1

[phokus.8934]

What's not fun is reading the same post over and over.

[kash.9213]

Don't mask complaints as polls.Your suggestion would shut down my build, which is adjusted to hit a threshold of mitigation by putting much of my offense into deliberate but cascading trait and sigil modifiers mostly from control skills. You should have some idea of what's coming at you after awhile in WvW and if you should spend some cooldowns or how you should stagger your resource pools to answer most of the onslaught. I think your post title makes your issue sound far more dire than it is.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

CC skills in general need toning down by removing some of them if we're going to have reduced access to stability and stun breaks, but Firebrand exists to be the stab bot so the solution will be to just bring more of them.

My current issue is with mesmers focus pull completely ignoring terrain and LoS. You can be inside the walls of a tower in the middle of the stairs and it will pull you from the outside, sometimes even launching you into the air for some reason.

[Justine.6351]

Add 3 sec stab to stunbreaks if you successfully break a cc.

! Oh and totally not a biased poll

[Junkpile.7439]

All cc skills should be single target skills

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Yes remove one of my build's weaknesses so i shall RULE WVW BWAHAHAHAHAHA

[Mikhael.2391]

@kash.9213 said:Don't mask complaints as polls.Your suggestion would shut down my build, which is adjusted to hit a threshold of mitigation by putting much of my offense into deliberate but cascading trait and sigil modifiers mostly from control skills. You should have some idea of what's coming at you after awhile in WvW and if you should spend some cooldowns or how you should stagger your resource pools to answer most of the onslaught. I think your post title makes your issue sound far more dire than it is.

so you think that shutting down players with your class that obviously has more disabling CCs than others is ok? that being said I willing to bet that you also have on that class enough stability and ignore damaging features.

Im guessing you either play thief, engi, warrior, ranger, mesmer or ele.

[Solanum.6983]

Stunlocks are never fun but I'm not sure how this would effect the balance. I think they're needed for countering mobility.Personally I think It'd be a good addition to the outnumbered "Buff" since the buff does nothing really to help you defend. Going against a large group can be a pain when you've used all your stun breaks and just get spammed with them until your locked in place and the blob tramples you.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@kash.9213 said:Don't mask complaints as polls.Your suggestion would shut down my build, which is adjusted to hit a threshold of mitigation by putting much of my offense into deliberate but cascading trait and sigil modifiers mostly from control skills. You should have some idea of what's coming at you after awhile in WvW and if you should spend some cooldowns or how you should stagger your resource pools to answer most of the onslaught. I think your post title makes your issue sound far more dire than it is.

so you think that shutting down players with your class that obviously has more disabling CCs than others is ok? that being said I willing to bet that you also have on that class enough stability and ignore damaging features.

Im guessing you either play thief, engi, warrior, ranger, mesmer or ele.

Necro main spotted.

[kash.9213]

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@kash.9213 said:Don't mask complaints as polls.Your suggestion would shut down my build, which is adjusted to hit a threshold of mitigation by putting much of my offense into deliberate but cascading trait and sigil modifiers mostly from control skills. You should have some idea of what's coming at you after awhile in WvW and if you should spend some cooldowns or how you should stagger your resource pools to answer most of the onslaught. I think your post title makes your issue sound far more dire than it is.

so you think that shutting down players with your class that obviously has more disabling CCs than others is ok? that being said I willing to bet that you also have on that class enough stability and ignore damaging features.

Im guessing you either play thief, engi, warrior, ranger, mesmer or ele.

I don't have more, I make choices about my build and kit and how I use them like everyone else. One of those choices recently was slotting Mercy for possible Initiative return since we keep getting priced out of our weapon skills nearly every update over Blinding Powder which was my one source of Stability which was almost always saved to cover teammates. Almost all of my build is deliberate action, I don't get to ignore damage, I have to plan for it and stay alert. I'm totally okay with being able to shut down players if I can, that's what all of us are trying to do.

[Jski.6180]

Most of the games effects are balanced off the old stab system at one point you would have high cc/long cc classes not have boon strip so stab would hard conter there effects. Now that stab is a stacking system you have classes who at one point could not deal with stab at all now are able to eat though the boon as if they have put something into striping.

This is an example of anet doing part balancing to one effect with out thinking how it effects the other balancing the game. This happens every time and is expated. This would be ok if the updates came more often or even there was some level of communication from anet but there is non and the update happen too rarely and randomly to ever hope to fix real problems.

I use to like stab stacking system it gave a real counter play to non boon strip classes but then they gave every class but a few boon strips elite spec. making all the balancing up to that point politeness. They also did not give enofe stab stacks to existing stab effects 1( stack of stab on a 2 sec duration is nothing).

What has happen is now you are required to have a class of gurd if not FB from most of your players in a group as well as scrapers as a 2ed stab generators (all be it on the low end). The one thing this game was trying not to do by making requirements class set up for partly. We can say this games balancing is a compel failure. No amount of diminishing returns will fix this problem as your trying to add another thing ontop of a pore balanced system. Its best to revert every thing back if you have to make wvw core class only to fix the problem.

[Mikhael.2391]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@kash.9213 said:Don't mask complaints as polls.Your suggestion would shut down my build, which is adjusted to hit a threshold of mitigation by putting much of my offense into deliberate but cascading trait and sigil modifiers mostly from control skills. You should have some idea of what's coming at you after awhile in WvW and if you should spend some cooldowns or how you should stagger your resource pools to answer most of the onslaught. I think your post title makes your issue sound far more dire than it is.

so you think that shutting down players with your class that obviously has more disabling CCs than others is ok? that being said I willing to bet that you also have on that class enough stability and ignore damaging features.

Im guessing you either play thief, engi, warrior, ranger, mesmer or ele.

Necro main spotted.

Actually one of toons is a necro and currently has less problems with CC as result of a bunker build, but any other fun build for different classes are not playable due to this. if there was diminishing returns you would see LOT MORE variety in wvw regarding builds and more fun fights than just stun stun disable interrupt boon strip dead.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I don't think this is an issue for small scale fights, but certainly when you have 20+ players putting out AoE cc's, it's ridiculous to just say "dodge" or "use stability". If you've ever complained about how Guardians can constantly fart out stability, maybe it's time to ask yourself why that is, and why it has remained in the game?

An ICD may not be the solution, and frankly, it shouldn't be up to the players to think one up. This is what the professionals are for, this is their job, and what many are saying is that in WvW there are too many CCs that hit too many targets and can overlap when cast by multiple opponents. We know spamming stability isn't the 'answer' as we've already been there done that. How about instead we look at how CC spam can be diminished (at the target level) so as to not impact how they work in sPvP or small fights, and then we can look at reducing stability spam.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@kash.9213 said:Don't mask complaints as polls.Your suggestion would shut down my build, which is adjusted to hit a threshold of mitigation by putting much of my offense into deliberate but cascading trait and sigil modifiers mostly from control skills. You should have some idea of what's coming at you after awhile in WvW and if you should spend some cooldowns or how you should stagger your resource pools to answer most of the onslaught. I think your post title makes your issue sound far more dire than it is.

so you think that shutting down players with your class that obviously has more disabling CCs than others is ok? that being said I willing to bet that you also have on that class enough stability and ignore damaging features.

Im guessing you either play thief, engi, warrior, ranger, mesmer or ele.

Necro main spotted.

Actually one of toons is a necro and currently has less problems with CC as result of a bunker build, but any other fun build for different classes are not playable due to this. if there was diminishing returns you would see LOT MORE variety in wvw regarding builds and more fun fights than just stun stun disable interrupt boon strip dead.

I have my own Necro, yet I see too many necros eat the stuns.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Adding "fixes" like this usually add more issues than they solve. There would be constant unintentional griefing every time noobs spam cc without thinking. In large scale fight most cc skills would become useless, and the meta would probably revolve around spamming the longest duration aoe cc's, and exploiting cc immunity. It would just add more reason for skilled veterans to hate having new players around.

[Mikhael.2391]

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:Adding "fixes" like this usually add more issues than they solve. There would be constant unintentional griefing every time noobs spam cc without thinking. In large scale fight most cc skills would become useless, and the meta would probably revolve around spamming the longest duration aoe cc's, and exploiting cc immunity. It would just add more reason for skilled veterans to hate having new players around.

cc is being spammed now, at most if not 3s at least 1/2s .

[Tammuz.7361]

this is what stunbreaks and stability are for...

also they just nerfed most CC into the ground... CC skills no longer deal damage... if anything id like to see this blanket nerf re-evaluated

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I don't think this is an issue for small scale fights, but certainly when you have 20+ players putting out AoE cc's, it's ridiculous to just say "dodge" or "use stability". If you've ever complained about how Guardians can constantly fart out stability, maybe it's time to ask yourself why that is, and why it has remained in the game?

An ICD may not be the solution, and frankly, it shouldn't be up to the players to think one up. This is what the professionals are for, this is their job, and what many are saying is that in WvW there are too many CCs that hit too many targets and can overlap when cast by multiple opponents. We know spamming stability isn't the 'answer' as we've already been there done that. How about instead we look at how CC spam can be diminished (at the target level) so as to not impact how they work in sPvP or small fights, and then we can look at reducing stability spam.

There’s way too many people that don’t understand such a simple concept. I explained what you said many months back when the stability vs CC argument was raging on and nobody seemed to think I knew what I was talking about. I was trying to explain the idea of cc application scaling logarithmically in large scales rather than linearly because it’s not just one cc per one target, it’s one cc per 5 targets. So in an 80v80 if each player just used one AOE CC, we are talking a thousand applications from that alone.

At the time people wanted to just get rid of stability, and I said it was critical to large scale, and that removing it is not the solution. It is literally impossible to have large scale fights without stability due to this scaling.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Neither option makes sense because putting a blanket cooldown is NOT a diminishing return. Diminishing returns means the each successive CC against you is less effective for a certain period of time.

And of course, this is more of a large scale problem. So it should be a gradual of reduction of say 10% each successive CC, so it is barely noticable in a 1v1, etc. Doing so might make it so that Firebrands are less ubiquitous in zergs (though I am seeing small groups with a pocket firebrand, so stuff's gotten bad....)

I mean, I don't have trouble with being stunlocked since I play the classes with the most stability anyways (now immob is kinda annoying...) but some people would like more variety in their comps.

[monotony.4931]

No.

When a larger, similarly well organized group of players rolls over a smaller group or a single player the less numerous group should absolutely lose.

In other, more evenly balanced scenarios two stun breaks, two dodges and all the other defensive tools a build has nowadays is more than enough. In larger engagements there's also heavy group support. Group healing and boon sharing are very powerful.

CC is also extremely important to stop revives. A three seconds immunity would allow players to get their allies up unchecked.

And finally, adding another mechanic to the game is in my opinion the wrong move. Combat, especially in large scale, is already a mess. Both visually and mechanically. It's impossible to keep track or even identify all the abilities thrown at your group. Adding yet another mechanic on top will make it worse.