Story = good?

[lezbefriends.7516]

I really like the story, to the point where I log in solely for the story and new maps. But I've been reading people hating on the cast and characters and not being impressed by the story. This is really disheartening and I feel inferior for liking the story now... So does anyone here really like the story like I do? I'd love to hear that side of it.

[Danikat.8537]

Yes I like the story. I don't think it's ever going to be considered a great work of literature but I'm not looking for that in a game.

I enjoy playing it and want to find out what happens in future, not just with the main storyline of the dragons attacking Tyria but all the 'side stories' too - what is Taimi going to do about her illness, will Braham manage to impress the Wolf spirit (especially without killing Jormag, now we know that's even more dangerous than leaving them alive), will Rytlock manage to reconcile with his son? Will we get to meet any of his other kids? What's going to happen when we go to Cantha? And so on.

I admit GW2 doesn't have the best writing I've ever seen, but I think it's also something common to fan forums - it should go without saying that everyone here likes GW2 because otherwise they wouldn't be here. So talking about the fact that you like it gets redundant quickly, but talking about what you don't like can provoke discussion. I've seen the same with forums for bands, movies, even authors. I once made the mistake of joining a forum for one of my favourite authors, which I'd heard was a really nice community. 10 minutes there would have you believing no one has ever liked those books. Everything was about how the stories are boring and predictable, the characters are all annoying and stupid and always making obvious mistakes, all the made up names sound horrible and no one can ever say them right which ruins any chance of a half-decent movie, all the descriptions are really poor and inconsistent and so on. It was difficult to find anyone saying anything nice about it, and it left me wondering why anyone bothered to take the time to be on a forum devoted to discussing books they didn't seem to enjoy reading.

The best place to find people who like the GW2 story is in topics posted just after a new episode releases discussing the plot, either in general discussion or the lore forum. When it's new and everyone is sharing their first impressions you're more likely to get people talking about what they like rather than what they want to see done differently.

[Kathkere.3068]

Why would you feel "inferior" for liking the story? I'm sure one can criticize the story of GW2 objectively through one narrative theory or other, but at the end of the day if you get enjoyment from the story then that enjoyment is legitimate.

[anninke.7469]

I like the story very much. I even like how I disliked Braham at some point :)

[Rukia.4802]

The story is a bit too disney for my taste, so far icebrood has been ok. Its not saying much cuz at best its not cringe like usual.

[Randulf.7614]

I hate it. It’s one of the worst RPG stories I’ve ever played and prob peaked at its worst during the end of LS4. Its not the writing itself, it’s the story which feels too much like it gets made up as they go along and retcons old lore on a whim, taking the focus off the world and the people and putting it all on some super baby Dragon

However, that should not in any way impact how you or anyone else feels about it. If you like it, you like it

[coso.9173]

Don't feel bad about liking the story, many people like it!Personal tastes play a large role in liking a story or not. Doesn't mean one is better than the other. I mean I watched all of Charmed, and Once upon a time, even though lots of people hated it, but I was happy I got to see so many episodes of things I enjoyed.Be glad you can play what you enjoy! ?

[firedragon.8953]

I haven't even went through my whole personal story yet, but I like it. I'm kinda a sucker for dragons though so I guess that makes Guild Wars 2 a good match. I also like picking up little bits of dialog and story from other NPC throughout the world that seem unrelated to the main story. One of the reasons I choose to play this game is because I can just enjoy a few minutes in a section of the story and be entertained and look forward to what happens next. I'm sure it could be better, but it could also be worse. Or there could be no real story telling at all, which has been my experience in a number of MMOs. I definitely don't like the feeling of grinding or "working hard" since that's what my time outside of the game consists of, so logging in and being entertained by the plot makes it seem like it's good for what it is. I even read two of the novels to better understand the game world. Glad to hear there are others that enjoy the story! :)

[Timbersword.9014]

Fewer people will come on to these forums to praise the story than to bash it. that isn't indicitive of general consensus... that's just in general how people do. People are more likely to complain than they are to praise. Any good business knows it is preferable to receive constant criticism over hearing nothing but a dead silence.

[Solanum.6983]

I like it, It does tend to follow the whole good guys team up to beat Bad guy trope with every Dragon but I feel like there's enough variety in it to still be a good story line.

[Incar.7358]

Admittedly, replaying much of the story from the beginning for the first time in so many years is jarring. There has been a definite improvement with every living season and expansion.

Originally, it was just talking heads who were so incredibly dull I couldn't wait to hit 'skip'. With every new episode the characters have developed beyond cardboard cut-outs, and the situations they find themselves in have turned far more into a fantasy epic than a colour-by-numbers. We're no longer going through the motions. I especially like the rapport between the characters now, it feels like they're friends. You might have got the teeniest, tiniest joke, or some wooden pleasantries or melodrama in the core game but nothing comparable to what we have now. I find I can't wait to see what happens next, not just because I'm curious as to how it all ends, but because I can finally invest in the characters - they're people, not trees. Not all of them anyways.

[MorningGlow.5376]

I really do enjoy reading your comments, because seem to always try to argue with reason (Sometimes a sight for sore eyes in this madhouse). However this time your statement seems somewhat elusive to me.

@"Randulf.7614" said:Its not the writing itselfWhat exactly do you mean by "the writing"? The general story itself? Or smaller details, like the way the dialog is written? It might be a misunderstanding, since English is not my mother tongue, but to me this is a rather far-stretching term. If you care to elaborate, i will listen.it's the story which feels too much like it gets made up as they go along and retcons old lore on a whimI would hardly even call myself an amateur writer, but life is change and as we change the story we tell might as well. Especially if it's a bigger project, where people are coming and leaving the company over the course of time. And while such a change in direction can be a bad thing, we shouldn't forget, that it could also turn out well. Take the dragons for example: We went from "we'll just kill 'em off for good" over "is it a good idea to just kill them off?" to "might an alliance with an elder dragon even work, or is Jormag already corrupting my mind?". I for one am quite happy with this twist. I mean... can we agree that just killing them one after another is doomed to get boring after a while? Even that they brought Balthazar into play as brief break from the dragon-hunt was a good decision imo. You can however argue on how well they executed it .

It's the same when it comes to retcons i think. Hardly avoidable for a Lore that is around as long as Gw's and not necessarily a bad thing. For example the stone summit dwarves (mild spoiler-alert for Gw EotN and the newest "Forging steel"-strike!). I might not remember correctly since it's been quite a while ago, but for me one of the last meetings with Jalis Ironhammer felt a little something like this:

Jalis: "We dwarfs will now fight the Great Destroyer"Me: "Yea? Even the Stone Summit guys? Thought those were the bad guys?"Jalis: "This will be the foretold end of the dwarfen race"Me: "Sorry to hear that. But why should it be the end of the Stone Summit?Jalis: "Worry not! It will be a glorious battle!"Me: "Ok, but what about the Stone Summit dwarfs?"Jalis: "We will all turn to stone now!"Me: "Ya? the Stone Summit dwarfs aswell?"Jalis: "Wooosh!! We're stone now!"Me: "Epic! But what about those Stone Summits?"Jalis: "We will now fight the Great Destroyer in one final battle!"Me: "You already mentioned. but what about the Stone Summits?"Jalis: "THIS IS OUR DESTINY!"Me: "BY BALTHAZAR'S BLAZING BALLS! WHAT IS WITH THE STUPID STONE SUMMIT DWARFS??"

It never really made sense for me. But now that we have the Stone-summit dwarfs reappear along the destroyers, we have a hint at why they disappeared along side the "good" dwarfs even though they didn't partake in the great last battle (well, we had hints back then in Gw1, but didn't we intersect exactly those plans?). Now you can argue if this is even a retcon or was planned all along, but can you not with all retcons to some extent?...and i'm realizing... i'm definitely derailing the topic here... and the post got way longer than anticipated... so let's get back really quick!

However, that should not in any way impact how you or anyone else feels about it. If you like it, you like it

On this point i totally agree. Don't let other peopls' rant ruin the the fun you have with the story! Even though it can be hard at times. I remember coming to the forums after the release of the first Episode of the Icebrood-Saga. I had kinda mixed feelings, but the immense negative response of the forums sapped every ounce of fun i could ever have felt right out of it^^

Oof... sry for the long post -.-

[Luthan.5236]

Story is okay-ish. The core story had some good parts. LS2 was fun. HoT not sooo good. (Felt rushed especially at the end.) LS3 some nice moments again. (Haven't played further than LS3 and just started with PoF.)

It is nothing unusual and the way it is told does not really make me care about chars. (Though I like some and like to see them again I probably wouldn't feel sad if they died or something. More like "too bad they aren't appearing anymore".)

[Randulf.7614]

@TezPoca.7203 said:I really do enjoy reading your comments, because seem to always try to argue with reason (Sometimes a sight for sore eyes in this madhouse). However this time your statement seems somewhat elusive to me.

@"Randulf.7614" said:Its not the writing itselfWhat exactly do you mean by "the writing"? The general story itself? Or smaller details, like the way the dialog is written? It might be a misunderstanding, since English is not my mother tongue, but to me this is a rather far-stretching term. If you care to elaborate, i will listen.it's the story which feels too much like it gets made up as they go along and retcons old lore on a whimI would hardly even call myself an amateur writer, but life is change and as we change the story we tell might as well. Especially if it's a bigger project, where people are coming and leaving the company over the course of time. And while such a change in direction can be a bad thing, we shouldn't forget, that it could also turn out well. Take the dragons for example: We went from "we'll just kill 'em off for good" over "is it a good idea to just kill them off?" to "might an alliance with an elder dragon even work, or is Jormag already corrupting my mind?". I for one am quite happy with this twist. I mean... can we agree that just killing them one after another is doomed to get boring after a while? Even that they brought Balthazar into play as brief break from the dragon-hunt was a good decision imo. You can however argue on how well they executed it .

It's the same when it comes to retcons i think. Hardly avoidable for a Lore that is around as long as Gw's and not necessarily a bad thing. For example the stone summit dwarves (mild

spoiler-alert

for Gw EotN and the newest "Forging steel"-strike!). I might not remember correctly since it's been quite a while ago, but for me one of the last meetings with Jalis Ironhammer felt a little something like this:

Jalis: "We dwarfs will now fight the Great Destroyer"Me: "Yea? Even the Stone Summit guys? Thought those were the bad guys?"Jalis: "This will be the foretold end of the dwarfen race"Me: "Sorry to hear that. But why should it be the end of the Stone Summit?Jalis: "Worry not! It will be a glorious battle!"Me: "Ok, but what about the Stone Summit dwarfs?"Jalis: "We will all turn to stone now!"Me: "Ya? the Stone Summit dwarfs aswell?"Jalis: "Wooosh!! We're stone now!"Me: "Epic! But what about those Stone Summits?"Jalis: "We will now fight the Great Destroyer in one final battle!"Me: "You already mentioned. but what about the Stone Summits?"Jalis: "THIS IS OUR DESTINY!"Me: "BY BALTHAZAR'S BLAZING BALLS! WHAT IS WITH THE STUPID STONE SUMMIT DWARFS??"

It never really made sense for me. But now that we have the Stone-summit dwarfs reappear along the destroyers, we have a hint at why they disappeared along side the "good" dwarfs even though they didn't partake in the great last battle (well, we had hints back then in Gw1, but didn't we intersect exactly those plans?). Now you can argue if this is even a retcon or was planned all along, but can you not with all retcons to some extent?...and i'm realizing... i'm definitely derailing the topic here... and the post got way longer than anticipated... so let's get back really quick!

However, that should not in any way impact how you or anyone else feels about it. If you like it, you like it

On this point i totally agree. Don't let other peopls' rant ruin the the fun you have with the story! Even though it can be hard at times. I remember coming to the forums after the release of the first Episode of the Icebrood-Saga. I had kinda mixed feelings, but the immense negative response of the forums sapped every ounce of fun i could ever have felt right out of it^^

Oof... sry for the long post -.-

Let me elaborate more since I wrote that in a hurry;

LS2 and the PS are actually pretty good stories on the whole. The campaigns are continuous, episodes follow each other at a good pace and the overall story keeps together until the ending. LS2's only real problem is that it leaves too many threads dangling - E, the proof of heir to the throne etc. In general it doesn't get too distracted or too rushed along the way.

Then we reach HoT. The dialogue and the writing itself is fine, the problem is it is all rushed. We smash through the jungle, taking in very little and ignoring lots of great opportunities like Malach and his Tree and more detail on the effect the Sylvari's change has on the wider world. In fact outside of some flavour, the Sylvari being Dragon minions doesn't seem to have any real impact on the story. We have Eir's death rushed through - she just stands there and takes it. A Norn of her legend would have put up a fight. And Trahearne killed off to appease a vocal forum crowd.

With the exception of the headlong rush, I can overlook most of that. However, right when we need to, we suddenly discover Mordremoth's weakness in an epithany outside of his lair. Just like that. All very convenient and destroyed the credibility of the story in one blow. The entire story was short enough as it was, but to end with that was pretty bad.

Moving on we get to LS3. A mish mash of story plots ranging from White mantle, to Lazarus, to Balthazar, to Dragons weaknesses, to Aurene training, to rising unbound magic and its effect on the World and so forth. None of which are given their rightful time in the story except maybe the White Mantle arc which gets the right pay off. Balthazar was a random additon, the bait and switch on Lazarus only to have him return randomly in one episode out of context for the rest of the Season was jarring. Then we have the very idea that any race other than Humans would be able to join the SHining Blade. And to top it all off, a massively important scene where Braham breaks the tooth is is in a short, after thought of a cutscene just to get it over with. That should have been a seminal moment for the Jormag arc, but instead was a throwaway in mess of a Season which didn't need it. They cram in too much, boucning from idea to idea without any real plan.

I liken it one of those communal storytelling games where one person starts and throws a cushion to the next person who carries it on then moves it to another person who makes up something else and so on

PoF was mostly OK, but failed to expand on Balathazar's motivations in a convincing way. Plus it was all a bit rushed at the end.

LS4 was a disaster. It started really well - a great arc on Joko and the Scarab Plague and then right as got interesting, everything was rushed and Joko was killed off suddenly and stupidly just so we can move on. From here onwards it all went into fan fiction territory as we focused on Aurene who is now (by the writers own words) the central story pivot for the story and what GW2 revolves entirely around. Kralk loses his aura and image by being humanised and with those ridiculous scenes at the end. I can't stand AUrene as a character and it is made worse by her rapid and rushed character development from baby to near God-like

LS5 has largely been OK, but again we get to an iconic character in Drakkar only for it to be killed really easily by Braham before any real progression occurs. Generally LS5 has hit the mark so far though

All this lack of focus, this change to being Aurene's story, the humanising of the Dragons and rushing anything remotely interesting that may not be directly Dragon related, has - for me - significantly damaged the story of the game. Almost everything else I enjoy and love about the game, but the story is all over the place and has rarely reared its head above fan fiction levels

[Skiravor.1257]

Its quite bad simply due to how dang well other mmos have done it.

For me, i dont feel any connection for the most part. Some parts are good, but yeah, very inconsistent writing and clumsy voice acting.

[Angoril.2179]

It's okay really. Better than average compared to most MMORPGs, bad compared to a single player RPG. I enjoy it for the most part by keeping my expectations in check and the only part that I really hated were the final 2 episodes in LS4 due to how badly written they are.

[Lexi.1398]

I wouldn't worry about other peoples opinions much, if something makes you happy, it makes you happy and you should enjoy it (unless its illgeal ofc...)

GW2s story is bad, from a literature PoV there is...a lot of ways it could be better, however...from a literature PoV, the bar for mmo stories is so low it's barely off the ground, and compared to many MMOs GW2s story is FAR superior IMO. I think it's departure from traditional quest structure giving us main focus on a single story really helps to make powerful things FEEL powerful, times of desperation really FEEL desperate, unlike some mmos which have one questline dedicated to something and don't really touch on it outside of that questline...having a lot of story based around a small handful of major plot points makes the world feel rich, and only a small handful of MMOs could compare to it IMO, and even those which I do tolerate the story writing on the same level as i like GW2s story, none of them are like GW2 at all. The Commander, the protagonist who is us, is a character- although flawed and not just in the sense of character flaws- which is rarely true of any other mmo. There are definitely people who hate that, and as an RPer i definitely understand those opinions, but i also really like having an actual character who we're following the story of.

[Donari.5237]

Mortifera, you are not inferior for liking something someone else doesn't. There is nothing in this world that 100% of everyone likes. Tastes vary.

I have a good friend that I have watched on a journey of epiphany. She's a talented writer, in fiction, RP, and games (she contributed greatly to a game that got GoTY, as a matter of fact, in her job writing for it). She is studious and likes to delve deep into the underpinnings of narrative and game design. She cares deeply about things in a manner I don't think I managed even when I was her age. She also was addicted to Reddit for a long time, and got personally affected by the internet attacking things she prized. She questioned the worth of her own judgement just as you do in the OP. And then she realized. It doesn't matter. She's allowed to like stories and games and movies for their own sake without group-think telling her she is Wrong and Bad and Morally Corrupt for liking them. I was so proud of her when this dawned on her!

Do I think the GW2 story is astounding either in concept or in delivery? Nope. My taste runs to richly complex tapestries of narrative that explore the natural and plausible ramifications of events and culture shocks, with deeply realized characters. Not really feasible in an MMO, though ESO makes the best attempt at it I've seen in any MMO. I'm also not fond of the glossed over or completely cut out plot we get in GW2. But that's just, you know, my opinion, man. It doesn't make me better than someone who does find everything perfect. And I do care about the story, I do use it as a springboard for RP, I do think they've improved tremendously in all aspects of it over the years. I do want people to like the story, to keep playing this game that satisfies me on so many levels so the game continues to be there a good long time. I will jump on every new release the moment it comes out and devour it to stay ahead of spoilers.

Please don't be ashamed of liking LS. There are things in this world that are shameful to like (won't give examples, that's politics or other derailing territory). An MMO's presentation of lore is not among them.

[Teratus.2859]

I like it.

It's not perfect by any means, no story is.. but it's a decent enough story to keep me entertained and invested in this world.Gw2 gives me more than enough of what I enjoy about MMO/RPG's

Other people disliking something that you love should mean nothing to you, it certainly shouldn't make you feel inferior.It's all just personal taste and opinion at the end of the day.. love the things you love and don't compromise on that because others feel differently, that'll only make you needlessly miserable.

[Westenev.5289]

Anet has done a decent job with the story, but we lack any real investment in the lore. We play with npc's we were never introduced to, old plot threads are either forgotten or used as throwaway suicide squads (RIP Demmi Beetlestone), and we still don't have a grasp on how people live in this world. Technology, magic, resources... it all just appears as the plot demands!

But, as far as popcorn fiction goes, I really enjoyed the story - especially any scene involving Joko, Balthazar or Canach (who is the only Dragons Watch member to get a good introduction in LS2).

[Ashantara.8731]

The biggest issue GW2's story has is the tone. A lot of the characters talk like contemporary American teens of 21st century Earth or American rednecks, I can't take that seriously in an epic fantasy piece (especially after the well-written dialogue of GW1).

The second biggest issue I have with GW2's story is that the Elder Dragons represent the main story arc. It gets so darn boring at times... :s I have the most fun whenever the story takes a detour (Palawa Joko, for instance, or the current issue with the xenophobic, nationalist Charr fraction). It feels so uninsprired to move from one Elder Dragon to the next, year after year, story after story. But one has to accept it or stop playing - those are the only two options.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"TezPoca.7203" said:It never really made sense for me. But now that we have the Stone-summit dwarfs reappear along the destroyers, we have a hint at why they disappeared along side the "good" dwarfs even though they didn't partake in the great last battle (well, we had hints back then in Gw1, but didn't we intersect exactly those plans?). Now you can argue if this is even a retcon or was planned all along, but can you not with all retcons to some extent?Nicabar Steelweaver: Aren't these dwarves supposed to be extinct?Vishen Steelshot: Don't ask me; this was your plan.Cinder Steeltemper: There's too many of these damn dwarves!Nicabar Steelweaver: They don't seem to be...alive. What kind of magic is this?

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

I like it and LS episodes that came out while taking a break from the game are pretty much the only thing i spend gems on. My favorite part was the scarlet parts and where taimi and the crew learn about leylines and how magic is intertwined in the world and learning about the unknown.

I think the story now in LS4 and Icebrood have much less of that mystery and intrigued of discovery but it's still very good and entertaining. I hope they add more excitement via uncovering unknowns, learning, and more unraveling mysteries, and plot twists, than the straight "we have to kill a dragon. This is how we will do it. Let's go!"

[Randulf.7614]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"TezPoca.7203" said:It never really made sense for me. But now that we have the Stone-summit dwarfs reappear along the destroyers, we have a hint at why they disappeared along side the "good" dwarfs even though they didn't partake in the great last battle (well, we had hints back then in Gw1, but didn't we intersect exactly those plans?). Now you can argue if this is even a retcon or was planned all along, but can you not with all retcons to some extent?Nicabar Steelweaver: Aren't these dwarves supposed to be extinct?Vishen Steelshot: Don't ask me; this was your plan.Cinder Steeltemper: There's too many of these kitten dwarves!Nicabar Steelweaver: They don't seem to be...alive. What kind of magic is this?

Yep this wasn't actually a retcon, but a continuation of a story started in GW1 with Duncan the Black. I thought they got this right and why LS5 has generally kept things a bit more on track

[Tinker.6924]

@Mortifera.6138 said:This is really disheartening and I feel inferior for liking the story now... So does anyone here really like the story like I do? I'd love to hear that side of it.

I thought the core personal story to be meh at best and often tedious. It felt like it was created to serve the purpose of guiding a new player through the game basics and a minimal amount of effort went into it. Whereas the stories for Path of Fire and LW4 were decent. Stories for HoT and the other lw's were better than the personal story by varying degrees