Crab Fear.1624 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 This IS the most problematic thing about the current PD condi thief in pvp.You can spam it up to 3 times, possibly 4 with quickness after a single shadow strike, at a cost of 2 ini...this is ridiculous.It triggers deadly ambition with each repeater (3x, or 4x)The bleeds are ridiculous for the spammability (3x,4x)While this may not be the major burst, it can keep the enemy under constant heavy condition pressure from ranged.Suggestions:Make the flip skill repeater a one time use, just like the flip skill for s/d (imagine larcenous strike 3-4 times in a row......just imagine)Increase the flip skill cost to 3 because it is the right thing to do when you nerf thief skills. You didn't truly nerf it if there was not an increase in cost.Put a bit of a cast time on shadow strike, maybe make it 1/2 sec, or 1/4. If you go with 1/2 beef up the initial damage from the strike to make it worth it.Bonus Request:The venom share mechanic needs a rework.Think about venoms like the thief carrying around a vial of venom. Potent stuff, but they share the bottle and the potency is therefor decreased.So, make venoms stronger alone, but with shared application reduce the efficacy for each ally shared with such as a reduction of 10,20,30,35,40% (for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 allies shared). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Make every weapon skill cost 8 initiatives. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 least of the problems....better remove the high power dmg on burstimagine repeater not be able to repeat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 @Koen.1327 said:least of the problems....better remove the high power dmg on burstimagine repeater not be able to repeat....it does repeat....5 shots....i promise if they remove this feature the build will DIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 @Eugchriss.2046 said:Make every weapon skill cost 8 initiatives. Period.sure and every rev skill cost 35 energy period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiden The Beast.3016 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 @Crab Fear.1624 said:This IS the most problematic thing about the current PD condi thief in pvp.You can spam it up to 3 times, possibly 4 with quickness after a single shadow strike, at a cost of 2 ini...this is ridiculous.It triggers deadly ambition with each repeater (3x, or 4x)The bleeds are ridiculous for the spammability (3x,4x)While this may not be the major burst, it can keep the enemy under constant heavy condition pressure from ranged.Suggestions:Make the flip skill repeater a one time use, just like the flip skill for s/d (imagine larcenous strike 3-4 times in a row......just imagine)Increase the flip skill cost to 3 because it is the right thing to do when you nerf thief skills. You didn't truly nerf it if there was not an increase in cost.Put a bit of a cast time on shadow strike, maybe make it 1/2 sec, or 1/4. If you go with 1/2 beef up the initial damage from the strike to make it worth it.Bonus Request:The venom share mechanic needs a rework.Think about venoms like the thief carrying around a vial of venom. Potent stuff, but they share the bottle and the potency is therefor decreased.So, make venoms stronger alone, but with shared application reduce the efficacy for each ally shared with such as a reduction of 10,20,30,35,40% (for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 allies shared). Another one, we already know ... in meantime try to deal with it. Venom share with teef guild meme? ... we already replaced this monkey stuff and replaced it by portal and basi elite to be even more mobile and kill u all even faster ?☠ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumcheg.1936 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 @Crab Fear.1624 said:This IS the most problematic thing about the current PD condi thief in pvp.You can spam it up to 3 times, possibly 4 with quickness after a single shadow strike, at a cost of 2 ini...this is ridiculous.It triggers deadly ambition with each repeater (3x, or 4x)The bleeds are ridiculous for the spammability (3x,4x)While this may not be the major burst, it can keep the enemy under constant heavy condition pressure from ranged.Suggestions:Make the flip skill repeater a one time use, just like the flip skill for s/d (imagine larcenous strike 3-4 times in a row......just imagine)Increase the flip skill cost to 3 because it is the right thing to do when you nerf thief skills. You didn't truly nerf it if there was not an increase in cost.Put a bit of a cast time on shadow strike, maybe make it 1/2 sec, or 1/4. If you go with 1/2 beef up the initial damage from the strike to make it worth it.Bonus Request:The venom share mechanic needs a rework.Think about venoms like the thief carrying around a vial of venom. Potent stuff, but they share the bottle and the potency is therefor decreased.So, make venoms stronger alone, but with shared application reduce the efficacy for each ally shared with such as a reduction of 10,20,30,35,40% (for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 allies shared). There is no 4x, only 3x maximum. You don't have access to quickness in this build. And 3x imply's that thief just stands on the spot and keeps pressing 1 button. Eating all the incomming damage. If you can't handle with thief who stands still than nothing will help you. Literally nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 @fumcheg.1936 said:You don't have access to quickness in this build.Thieves I fight will ALWAYS have quickness access except deadeye.Guess what class I play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumcheg.1936 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 @Tayga.3192 said:@"fumcheg.1936" said:You don't have access to quickness in this build.Thieves I fight will ALWAYS have quickness access except deadeye.Guess what class I play?If you are implying about Consume plasma stolen from mesmer then yes it will give you like 2-2.5 sec (nor sure) of quickness. After you use it. And then come to meele range, then use SS and then there is going to be genuine 0.1-0.2 quickness fest. Which of course will not turn 3x into 4x. Or you can use it right after steal and then go SS in hope that your enemy will stand there waiting you to prepare your quickinized SS. Anyway I believe there should be another topic "nerf the consume plasma".Btw why would mesmer complain about PD thief? It's much more easy to kill mesmer with DP or SD thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 @Tayga.3192 said:@"fumcheg.1936" said:You don't have access to quickness in this build.Thieves I fight will ALWAYS have quickness access except deadeye.Guess what class I play?I guess not mesmer because:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal_Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 @fumcheg.1936 said:Btw why would mesmer complain about PD thief? It's much more easy to kill mesmer with DP or SD thief.I don't complain about P/D thief at all, I play some kind of reflect-invuln-cleanse build so P/D die easy to me.Plasma on the other hand :)Edit: @Bazsi.2734 lol so that's why I can't dodge DJ sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumcheg.1936 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 @Tayga.3192 said:@fumcheg.1936 said:Btw why would mesmer complain about PD thief? It's much more easy to kill mesmer with DP or SD thief.P/D die easy to me.I believe they do. I mean once you understood how to fight them there is not much of a threat anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 On the one hand, Repeater could be a single flip skill. I don’t mind that at all, I even like that. But, Repeater spam isn’t doing the big damage against competent players. Multiple long channels like Repeater (base 1.25 seconds each) are begging for (1) counter pressure, (2) an interrupt, (3) projectile hate. You, correctly, mention venom is a big part of why this build became popular (because venoms are easy to play and apply/share). Venoms are easy to apply in a single attack if the attack hits multiple times, which is both Sneak Attack and Repeater and also just the auto attacks (which are smaller damage more often). Venoms are the issue, especially with Thieves Guild, so why not just address venoms?Here’s a few suggestions for changes to venoms: Venoms now apply only on the first attack of a single skill. Makes venoms more slow burn rather than spike.Like you suggested. Venom sharing decreases total stacks per person to 3. So you either get 6 yourself or shared with 3 people or NPCs you get up to 12 (not the current 24).Adding a cast time delay to Shadowstrike makes no sense to me. It is a teleport for kiting and adding cast time will only mean people precast it into teleport. So you change nothing except make it more clunky to use when you aren’t doing a teleport in-out combo (which is what people have been actually complaining about—although that’s basically been a complaint about thief generally for a long time). I’d note, there is a delay in the follow up damage on Shadowstrike (it is a melee strike that teleports followed by a higher damage shot on a delay). Lots of the damage can be avoided if you throw up a block/etc right after the teleport because a big chunk of power damage and the follow up Repeater will be blocked and that will consume venom charges if those have been applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine.8543 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 @Crab Fear.1624 said:@Eugchriss.2046 said:Make every weapon skill cost 8 initiatives. Period.sure and every rev skill cost 35 energy periodthis is actually the case in demon stance though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 @Dantheman.3589 said:Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enoughThing is, that’s been it’s design for nearly 8 years. And it’s a hybrid not a condition weapon. What is giving people burst condi here is venoms. A utility. Usually shared with Guild. I can do that on any weapon set. That’s what needs adjusting. You might as well have suggested removing damaging condi from the game. It isn’t helpful or realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 @saerni.2584 said:@Dantheman.3589 said:Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enoughThing is, that’s been it’s design for nearly 8 years. And it’s a hybrid not a condition weapon. What is giving people burst condi here is venoms. A utility. Usually shared with Guild. I can do that on any weapon set. That’s what needs adjusting. You might as well have suggested removing damaging condi from the game. It isn’t helpful or realistic.Only thing hybrid about pistol is p/d. No it’s not venoms- cuz then s/d condition thief would be busted meta too, but I’ve tested it and it’s decent but balanced. It’s just lol, thief’s guild having a 30 sec duration with 3 thief’s also doesn’t really have a place in pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 @Dantheman.3589 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Dantheman.3589 said:Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enoughThing is, that’s been it’s design for nearly 8 years. And it’s a hybrid not a condition weapon. What is giving people burst condi here is venoms. A utility. Usually shared with Guild. I can do that on any weapon set. That’s what needs adjusting. You might as well have suggested removing damaging condi from the game. It isn’t helpful or realistic.Only thing hybrid about pistol is p/d. No it’s not venoms- cuz then s/d condition thief would be busted meta too, but I’ve tested it and it’s decent but balanced. It’s just lol, thief’s guild having a 30 sec duration with 3 thief’s also doesn’t really have a place in pvpI don’t see why you couldn’t use something like the old s/d build. P/D has always had more condi application but s/d was considered better due to the teleports through walls. Just port in, thieves guild (Pre-cast), venom, steal, port out, rinse and repeat. But that’s an issue with well played Sword in general. They are harder to pin and if they are chunking your HP it’s not a good place to be in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 @saerni.2584 said:@Dantheman.3589 said:@saerni.2584 said:@Dantheman.3589 said:Thing is pistol thief shouldn’t be a condition build. Remove bleeds entirely and nerf p/d 3 skill to the bottom of earth. Also rework thief’s guild to something with less thief’s and much lower duration. Idc if u make cd lower but thief’s guild lasting for 30 secs is insane and it should really only 2 thief’s at max, but according to logic I think 1 is enoughThing is, that’s been it’s design for nearly 8 years. And it’s a hybrid not a condition weapon. What is giving people burst condi here is venoms. A utility. Usually shared with Guild. I can do that on any weapon set. That’s what needs adjusting. You might as well have suggested removing damaging condi from the game. It isn’t helpful or realistic.Only thing hybrid about pistol is p/d. No it’s not venoms- cuz then s/d condition thief would be busted meta too, but I’ve tested it and it’s decent but balanced. It’s just lol, thief’s guild having a 30 sec duration with 3 thief’s also doesn’t really have a place in pvpI don’t see why you couldn’t use something like the old s/d build. P/D has always had more condi application but s/d was considered better due to the teleports through walls. Just port in, thieves guild (Pre-cast), venom, steal, port out, rinse and repeat. But that’s an issue with well played Sword in general. They are harder to pin and if they are chunking your HP it’s not a good place to be in...I wouldn’t play it w/ thief’s guild tbh. But even when they nerfed condition thief awhile back, even though I’d always hit my highest ranks when condi thief was meta, I would site the nerfs as a good thing because thief’s guild + venom share is busted. Even though I actually like condition thief, the p/d build is everything I’ve hated about condition thief all clumped together at the same time in 1 build and it’s pretty dang strong atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Take away the venom + guild and it’s actually not over performing in the slightest.If we must nerf we should target the actual problem and not destroy the gameplay.It’s like, Pistol has had bleed forever and doesn’t put out that much bleed. Taking away bleed and venoms moves the entire weapon away from viability rather than just eliminating the actual problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 @fumcheg.1936 said:@Tayga.3192 said:@fumcheg.1936 said:You don't have access to quickness in this build.Thieves I fight will ALWAYS have quickness access except deadeye.Guess what class I play?If you are implying about Consume plasma stolen from mesmer then yes it will give you like 2-2.5 sec (nor sure) of quickness. After you use it. And then come to meele range, then use SS and then there is going to be genuine 0.1-0.2 quickness fest. Which of course will not turn 3x into 4x. Or you can use it right after steal and then go SS in hope that your enemy will stand there waiting you to prepare your quickinized SS. Anyway I believe there should be another topic "nerf the consume plasma".Btw why would mesmer complain about PD thief? It's much more easy to kill mesmer with DP or SD thief.Sorry, but assuming we have quickness as a thief, it can go from 3 to 4.But, I had to make a video. You can count how many channels after after I hit with shadow strike.I am a thief main, not a good one by any means, but that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 @Crab Fear.1624 said:@Eugchriss.2046 said:Make every weapon skill cost 8 initiatives. Period.sure and every rev skill cost 35 energy periodSure, if Energy costs are removed from weapon skills or Initiative costs are added to Thief utility skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 @Fueki.4753 said:@Crab Fear.1624 said:@Eugchriss.2046 said:Make every weapon skill cost 8 initiatives. Period.sure and every rev skill cost 35 energy periodSure, if Energy costs are removed from weapon skills or Initiative costs are added to Thief utility skills.sure, if swapping legends doesn't grant any energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumcheg.1936 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 @Crab Fear.1624 said:@fumcheg.1936 said:@Tayga.3192 said:@fumcheg.1936 said:You don't have access to quickness in this build.Thieves I fight will ALWAYS have quickness access except deadeye.Guess what class I play?If you are implying about Consume plasma stolen from mesmer then yes it will give you like 2-2.5 sec (nor sure) of quickness. After you use it. And then come to meele range, then use SS and then there is going to be genuine 0.1-0.2 quickness fest. Which of course will not turn 3x into 4x. Or you can use it right after steal and then go SS in hope that your enemy will stand there waiting you to prepare your quickinized SS. Anyway I believe there should be another topic "nerf the consume plasma".Btw why would mesmer complain about PD thief? It's much more easy to kill mesmer with DP or SD thief.Sorry, but assuming we have quickness as a thief, it can go from 3 to 4.But, I had to make a video. You can count how many channels after after I hit with shadow strike.I am a thief main, not a good one by any means, but that's a different story. So much efforts spent in vain. PD condi build does not have direct acccess to quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 @fumcheg.1936 said:So much efforts spent in vain. PD condi build does not have direct acccess to quickness. I almost always play mesmer and every thief I fight against will have quickness access. This might not be a balance baseline, but all mesmer players will feel like thieves always have a quickness utility or something like Sigil of Celerity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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