lotus.5672 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Anet doesnt want GS mesmer to be a thing, just like they dont want rifle warrior to be a thing, both are 'meme bursty weapons'What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 In which context? PvE, PvP, WvW?If Anet didn't want GS mesmer to be a thing, I could actually understand that. The auto attack, for example, has 1200 range and is one of the few weapons with such a range that also doesn't get countered by projectile hate, since the laser simply isn't a projectile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 @Kodama.6453 said:In which context? PvE, PvP, WvW?If Anet didn't want GS mesmer to be a thing, I could actually understand that. The auto attack, for example, has 1200 range and is one of the few weapons with such a range that also doesn't get countered by projectile hate, since the laser simply isn't a projectile. Is this a joke? The GS Auto from Mesmer is so bad, if the enemy has retaliation you are doing to yourself more dmg then to the enemy xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 compare gs to ranger LB, those are very similar.1 Long range shot vs, Spatial surge.LRS hasbetter rangebetter damage and dpsbetter damage up close, it doesnt fall off as hard as gsits a projectile finisherits a projectile, doesnt get obstructed as often as beam weaponshits once, no retaliation hateits a projectile, can be reflectedhits once, technically worse against blind/aegis, but in reality gs has precast on its auto so the actual first hit is very close to eachother, but still small disadvantage.2rapid fire vs mirror blade/berserker.I have put those 2 together since they play similar role.more damage, and dps then both of the abilities combinedMUCH lower cd than berserker, slightly worse than mirrormuch better rangeno rng bounces, and no stupid AI failing the skill for youproj, can be reflectedsingle targetno might3PBS vs Waverangecooldownprojectileaoedoesnt hit through wallsOverall PBS will be just better than wave due to bugged range, you can use it whenever, meanwhile you have to be up close to use wave and the cooldown...4 Mind stab vs hunters/barrageMind stab is good, quick reliable damage.but the utility and damage from ranger skills overshadows it massively.Over all LB is much better than gs unless heavy proj hate is present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 @Leonidrex.5649 said:compare gs to ranger LB, those are very similar.1 Long range shot vs, Spatial surge.LRS hasbetter rangebetter damage and dpsbetter damage up close, it doesnt fall off as hard as gsits a projectile finisherits a projectile, doesnt get obstructed as often as beam weaponshits once, no retaliation hateits a projectile, can be reflectedhits once, technically worse against blind/aegis, but in reality gs has precast on its auto so the actual first hit is very close to eachother, but still small disadvantage.2rapid fire vs mirror blade/berserker.I have put those 2 together since they play similar role.more damage, and dps then both of the abilities combinedMUCH lower cd than berserker, slightly worse than mirrormuch better rangeno rng bounces, and no stupid AI failing the skill for youproj, can be reflectedsingle targetno might3PBS vs Waverangecooldownprojectileaoedoesnt hit through wallsOverall PBS will be just better than wave due to bugged range, you can use it whenever, meanwhile you have to be up close to use wave and the cooldown...4 Mind stab vs hunters/barrageMind stab is good, quick reliable damage.but the utility and damage from ranger skills overshadows it massively.Over all LB is much better than gs unless heavy proj hate is present.You leave some points out in this comparison.Examples:Berserker additionally provides boon strip and also provides a clone.Mirror blade is unblockable by default.Mesmer GS auto attack can hit 3 targets by default, ranger LB is single target.Also you shouldn't undersell the fact that ranger's LB is a projectile based weapon, unlike mesmer's GS. In some cases, like WvW, this is a major downside, since projectile hate is really common there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 @Kodama.6453 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:compare gs to ranger LB, those are very similar.1 Long range shot vs, Spatial surge.LRS hasbetter rangebetter damage and dpsbetter damage up close, it doesnt fall off as hard as gsits a projectile finisherits a projectile, doesnt get obstructed as often as beam weaponshits once, no retaliation hateits a projectile, can be reflectedhits once, technically worse against blind/aegis, but in reality gs has precast on its auto so the actual first hit is very close to eachother, but still small disadvantage.2rapid fire vs mirror blade/berserker.I have put those 2 together since they play similar role.more damage, and dps then both of the abilities combinedMUCH lower cd than berserker, slightly worse than mirrormuch better rangeno rng bounces, and no stupid AI failing the skill for youproj, can be reflectedsingle targetno might3PBS vs Waverangecooldownprojectileaoedoesnt hit through wallsOverall PBS will be just better than wave due to bugged range, you can use it whenever, meanwhile you have to be up close to use wave and the cooldown...4 Mind stab vs hunters/barrageMind stab is good, quick reliable damage.but the utility and damage from ranger skills overshadows it massively.Over all LB is much better than gs unless heavy proj hate is present.You leave some points out in this comparison.Examples:Berserker additionally provides boon strip and also provides a clone.Mirror blade is unblockable by default.Mesmer GS auto attack can hit 3 targets by default, ranger LB is single target.Also you shouldn't undersell the fact that ranger's LB is a projectile based weapon, unlike mesmer's GS. In some cases, like WvW, this is a major downside, since projectile hate is really common there.my point was realistic scenario.realistically gs4 wont strip boons, relistically gs 2 unblockable does not matter, realistically gs 1 wont hit more then 1 target, unless you are cleaving with it.the only real downside to lb vs gs is projectile hate, in pvp it doesnt really matter since reflect/blocks are very specific, and in wvw I wouldnt know. but from what little I played ranger can pick off people that are on the sides with their 2k range and 40k+ dmg rapid fires, cant do shit to blobs tho, but its not like gs can do anything there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Well GS has never managed to get out of the massive burst shatter pigeonholing.I suppose mirage with split surge IH ambush kind of tried to push the sustained play a bit more, but still, the entire weapon has revolved around supplementing unloading of massive F1 burst combos.Not sure how or if this could ever change, to allow options of building GS either for sustained (and lower burst) damage, or the opposite.Tbh, this is more to do with function of shatters, but I don't want to give Anet more food for bad nerfs here. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 make mind stab a port and itll be good :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @"Leonidrex.5649" said:my point was realistic scenario.realistically gs4 wont strip boons, relistically gs 2 unblockable does not matter, realistically gs 1 wont hit more then 1 target, unless you are cleaving with it.the only real downside to lb vs gs is projectile hate, in pvp it doesnt really matter since reflect/blocks are very specific, and in wvw I wouldnt know. but from what little I played ranger can pick off people that are on the sides with their 2k range and 40k+ dmg rapid fires, cant do kitten to blobs tho, but its not like gs can do anything thereMight elaborate why these points don't matter "realistically"?In PvP/WvW, boon spam is really common, so I don't really understand why it shouldn't realistically remove any.Being unblockable also matters, since it removes the downside of being a projectile once again for the greatsword, since being unblockable means that it is also immune to reflect and projectile block effects.Fortunately, if these really realistically don't matter at all, then there is an easy solution.Remove the clone and boon strip from berserker, remove the unblockable from mirror blade, restrict the auto attack to just one single target instead of hitting 3.If all that stuff doesn't matter anyway, then it also doesn't matter if it all gets removed in favour of the buffs for greatsword you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @Kodama.6453 its the sword that removes the boons, not the zerkers, and sword only hits at melee range.im honestly fine with all of those getting removed, but nothing will change. as long as lich form autoattack has same burst as entire gs combo then there is no point to the weapon. why risk going glass cannon mesmer if you can go paladins amulet necro and hurr durr necro auto gos brrr 6kEdit.core necro shroud auto deals more damage then any gs ability, so by default, every ability that you throw gets outvalued hurr durr auto.heck lich for auto deals as much damage as 3clone F1 shatter in melee rangelook at it this way, you can land blurred frenzy, prestige, entire gs4, gs2,gs3,shatter. and you deal LESS damage then 3 lich autos :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Imagine your best damage option is going melee with a ranged weapon on a squishy class that lacks the frequent on demand stealth of thief and ranger.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 @Daishi.6027 said:Imagine your best damage option is going melee with a ranged weapon on a squishy class that lacks the frequent on demand stealth of thief and ranger.lolalso imagine that this best damage option deals less damage then auto attack from a bunker with over 70k hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoci.2481 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@Kodama.6453 its the sword that removes the boons, not the zerkers, and sword only hits at melee range.im honestly fine with all of those getting removed, but nothing will change. as long as lich form autoattack has same burst as entire gs combo then there is no point to the weapon. why risk going glass cannon mesmer if you can go paladins amulet necro and hurr durr necro auto gos brrr 6kEdit.core necro shroud auto deals more damage then any gs ability, so by default, every ability that you throw gets outvalued hurr durr auto.heck lich for auto deals as much damage as 3clone F1 shatter in melee rangelook at it this way, you can land blurred frenzy, prestige, entire gs4, gs2,gs3,shatter. and you deal LESS damage then 3 lich autos :D Necro is so broken now. I tried 4 different builds against it, no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 @Yoci.2481 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Kodama.6453 its the sword that removes the boons, not the zerkers, and sword only hits at melee range.im honestly fine with all of those getting removed, but nothing will change. as long as lich form autoattack has same burst as entire gs combo then there is no point to the weapon. why risk going glass cannon mesmer if you can go paladins amulet necro and hurr durr necro auto gos brrr 6kEdit.core necro shroud auto deals more damage then any gs ability, so by default, every ability that you throw gets outvalued hurr durr auto.heck lich for auto deals as much damage as 3clone F1 shatter in melee rangelook at it this way, you can land blurred frenzy, prestige, entire gs4, gs2,gs3,shatter. and you deal LESS damage then 3 lich autos :D Necro is so broken now. I tried 4 different builds against it, no chance.yep, you can take random shit and it works :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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