Zerker v Renegade (Mirage PvE Raid)

[narcx.3570]

So, qT did their Mirage benchmark with Runes of the Berserker, which was the old standard for condi builds that don't need any extra duration.

But all their other specs for similar set ups (Viper Firebrand/Condi Ele/Condi Reaper) are using Runes of the Renegade now.

I'm just wondering why Berserker is still better than Renegade for Mirage? Is it because Superiority Complex already gives Mesmer's +10% critical damage, so they benefit more from the extra power than they would from the 100 ferocity? Or is it because of the way stats affect our phantasms? Or...?

[OriOri.8724]

Honestly at that level its all about the tiniest extra bit of min/maxing. For 99% of players it won't make any difference whatsoever, because they just don't play at that level.

[Knox.8962]

Renegade should be marginally better than zerker for mirage DPS. We're talking about 0.25% DPS or so between the two setups.

[Refia Montes.3205]

It's a really really small increase.

[narcx.3570]

@OriOri.8724 said:Honestly at that level its all about the tiniest extra bit of min/maxing. For 99% of players it won't make any difference whatsoever, because they just don't play at that level.

Don't you want to know why though? And not just blindly follow the qT meta-overlords? I mean, I'm sure they're right, they put in the leg work to make sure it's right since everyone wants to prove them wrong all the time, but still... I like to know the reasons behind stuff and junk.

[Refia Montes.3205]

I mean sometimes QT kinda has a class bias when it comes to testing stuff. Getting Renegade runes for a minimal dps increase like 0-1% isn't worth to them and just left it as is.

[Coulter.2315]

@narcx.3570 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:Honestly at that level its all about the tiniest extra bit of min/maxing. For 99% of players it won't make any difference whatsoever, because they just don't play at that level.

Don't you want to know why though? And not just blindly follow the qT meta-overlords? I mean, I'm sure they're right, they put in the leg work to make sure it's right since everyone wants to prove them wrong all the time, but still... I like to know the reasons behind stuff and junk.

It will purely be proportion of damages, if [physical damage]x1.05 > [condi damage]x1.02 then Berserkers > Renegades.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

It might be hard to determine. Remember that direct damage has a natural 12.7% variance between it's lowest and highest numbers. Testing any changes smaller than that can present problems, even if you're on a 10 million golem.

[Refia Montes.3205]

Not to mention that Duelist don't get to inherit the 5% damage increase.

[OriOri.8724]

@narcx.3570 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:Honestly at that level its all about the tiniest extra bit of min/maxing. For 99% of players it won't make any difference whatsoever, because they just don't play at that level.

Don't you want to know why though? And not just blindly follow the qT meta-overlords? I mean, I'm sure they're right, they put in the leg work to make sure it's right since everyone wants to prove them wrong all the time, but still... I like to know the reasons behind stuff and junk.

No, because I will likely never play at the level where I need to worry about changing my gear to get <1% more DPS. And I don't blindly follow them as I don't even raid lol

[Agent Noun.7350]

I think it's really just that Renegade runes aren't cheap, and replacing all your Berserker runes with Renegade ones for a tiny DPS difference probably isn't worth it for anyone.

That said, I'm actually not sure how much of a DPS increase it would really be. Like, I'm not saying it isn't one--I'm just saying there are more factors to consider than just the higher bonus condition damage. Specifically, is a condi Mirage going to get more mileage out of some extra power and 5% more direct damage, or some extra ferocity and 2% more condition damage? How much does critical chance matter there? For example, Weaver's going to have a higher pre-Fury critical chance than Mirage (you can wear some pieces of Sinister gear and you get +15% critical chance against Weakened enemies), so that extra ferocity from the Renegade runes is going to come into play more than it would for Mirage.

But I legitimately don't know, but I suspect the difference is so minimal as to not matter at all, or it might even be so close to a tie that there's no real way to pick a winner and you might as well stick with what you know works.

@Refia Montes.3205 said:I mean sometimes QT kinda has a class bias when it comes to testing stuff. Getting Renegade runes for a minimal dps increase like 0-1% isn't worth to them and just left it as is.

Well, they do offer the Firebrand rune variant for Chronomancer which has a really small difference in effectiveness, but that might just be because you can just buy Firebrand runes off the TP, unlike Leadership runes.