Good question about unhealthy mechanics(power+cc=0 dmg, but condi+cc=big dmg???).

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

So few months ago Arenanet decided to change PvP with big patch and back then they made all crowd control spells dealing almost 0 physical damage.What devs forgot to do is to reduce condition damage on spells that does crowd control but also spells that comes as synergy. Good example is revenant's axe 5, it still does damage. Good example can be guardian too. Even necro does condition damage using fear. (Control condis count as soft CC which means any imobilize, chill,criple,slow etc shouldn't have damaging condi).I peronsally experienced problem when i get stun locked but in same time i have all conditions on myself/all debuffs+damaging conditions. Nor i can't just cleanse condis, but also it comes hard to stunbreak such situation.
I feel like this needs some change which i would suggest to be: removal of condis application on crowd control spells from all sources. So crowd control should be there as setup for damage not primal death combo. This would solve many problems that we face like condi rev, necros, guards, even imobilize rangers.If everyone remember mesmers "chaos" grandmaster trait(chaotic interuption) that got reworked which did apply imobilize+random condi on crowd control, and it could be spammed then you can understand how many other classes have crowd control+condis in their combo when they shouldn't. In PvP i experienced mostly condition builds, rarely someone went for power and did well with it.
This also includes condi thieves, it press steal for daze, apply all condis and move out with pistol-dagger 3. So why would spell have daze but also confusion, posion, weakness etc? Also there you guys noticed problem with thief shortbow 4 "choking gas", guess what was problem ....posion and daze in same spell, weakness with it and torment on interuptions etc. same for deadeyes knockdown+condis+imobilize utility....

It is very good time for Arenanet to think about this. I felt pvp was good after such changes but i noticed some problems it has at the moment. Many may disagree with me and say that there are condi cleanses and stun breaks, but i can also say that those spells are separated in most cases while cc+condis are not. I would say that this is not about counter play but actually game mechanic that brings toxicity with it. This can be very wide problem if it get looked at, which exists in all classes in some kit. So it would take a lot of time and thinking how to change it but also to not fully destroy condi builds.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

[anjo.6143]

Conditions are stupid at moment. Too high, too long, too accessible. It rewards a safe/unskillful game play WAY more than a risk style gameplay. Condi burst are taking more dmg than power bursts on certain classes.

[Koen.1327]

revenant axe 5 such a good example it applies 1 sec of torment after patch

[Sleepwalker.1398]

@Hannelore.8153 said:Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

I disagree, if you don't react fast enough to someone putting more than 8 stacks of burn on you, you are dead or you cleanse off 14 stacks of torment only to have it reapplied back.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

Ur comment makes sense if we were talking condi in other games. In gw2 burn tics can be 5k+ per tic so it's more like gw2 condi is burst consecutively over time.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

Ur comment makes sense if we were talking condi in other games. In gw2 burn tics can be 5k+ per tic so it's more like gw2 condi is burst consecutively over time.

You're referring to a very specific damage output that only a few classes are capable of. Most classes can't even do Burning damage, and of the ones that can, only 2-3 can actually apply more than a few stacks at a time. I don't know why people act like this is all you see in PvP/WvW. I don't even encounter a Burn Guard or Ele more than once a week these days..

Here comes the Flamethrower Scrapper, right? :p

[Mega.5791]

@Hannelore.8153 said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.(...)

Which of ele's CCs critted for 10k+? Earthquake? FA ele does use instant cast spells, not (really) CCs. Which is still dumb, but a bad example on this topic.

Better mention 17k Reaper Scythes!

Now they hit for like 17 damage. :wink:

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

Ur comment makes sense if we were talking condi in other games. In gw2 burn tics can be 5k+ per tic so it's more like gw2 condi is burst consecutively over time.

You're referring to a very specific damage output that only a few classes are capable of. Most classes can't even do Burning damage, and of the ones that can, only 2-3 can actually apply more than a few stacks at a time. I don't know why people act like this is all you see in PvP/WvW. I don't even encounter a Burn Guard or Ele more than once a week these days..

Here comes the Flamethrower Scrapper, right? :p

No ones talking about flamethrower scrapper but yes burning damage is to high per tic right now, u think 5k per tic is ok? Yet after patch wasnt long before there was a thief still does 5k on backstab lmao community is a joke in this game.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Zero surprise most vets are gone and pops dwindled to nothing lol

[saerni.2584]

I think what you are missing is that the community generally agrees that cc skills hitting for 0 is silly. Most would be happy seeing cc skills that hit for 2-4k at max, not 36 damage.

Meanwhile, you’re not seeing cc condi skills hit that hard. List one ability that is cc + condi that hits for big damage. What you are actually going to see is skills that hit for 2-5k condi damage over a significant period of time. The tick damage will be relatively minor.

Also, if you follow up a cc ability with a big power damage ability you will do a lot of damage. If you follow up a cc ability with a big condi ability you will apply multiple conditions. Nothing is really different here in that respect.

Fix the silly low damage on some power cc abilities to hit for some reasonable small amount. That’s all that needs to happen.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

Ur comment makes sense if we were talking condi in other games. In gw2 burn tics can be 5k+ per tic so it's more like gw2 condi is burst consecutively over time.

You're referring to a very specific damage output that only a few classes are capable of. Most classes can't even do Burning damage, and of the ones that can, only 2-3 can actually apply more than a few stacks at a time. I don't know why people act like this is all you see in PvP/WvW. I don't even encounter a Burn Guard or Ele more than once a week these days..

Here comes the Flamethrower Scrapper, right? :p

Thing is, the burning builds arent the only condi builds that burst hard. All of them do. Scourge, burn guard, condi ele, condi thief, condi Mesmer, condi Soulbeast, even condi Warrior (which sucks) and condi Engineer (which also sucks) burst you. Condis very much so just instantly take half your HP. He is absolutely right, GW2 condis are just consecutive bursts.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

Ur comment makes sense if we were talking condi in other games. In gw2 burn tics can be 5k+ per tic so it's more like gw2 condi is burst consecutively over time.

You're referring to a very specific damage output that only a few classes are capable of. Most classes can't even do Burning damage, and of the ones that can, only 2-3 can actually apply more than a few stacks at a time. I don't know why people act like this is all you see in PvP/WvW. I don't even encounter a Burn Guard or Ele more than once a week these days..

Here comes the Flamethrower Scrapper, right? :p

Thing is, the burning builds arent the only condi builds that burst hard. All of them do. Scourge, burn guard, condi ele, condi thief, condi Mesmer, condi Soulbeast, even condi Warrior (which sucks) and condi Engineer (which also sucks) burst you. Condis very much so just instantly take half your HP. He is absolutely right, GW2 condis are just consecutive bursts.

Exactly! Conservative power bursts is a good comparison to what condi tics are at the moment. If anyone can't achieve this right now its cuz they haven't properly assembled their condi build.Condis are sopose to be dot dps as in damage OVER time. In other games with far more competent devs dot tic damage may accumulate a higher sum than a power burst by a significant amount but it's over a period of time that punishes the effected for not using cleanses. These devs are ridiculous and did the reverse in dropping the condi durations but leaving the damage almost entirely intact post patch, the opposite is what should have happened being durations on condis remaining while their tic damage lowered.Decisions of such really lead me to question the future of the balance of the game, as did the large blanket reduction in power with such a lazy post follow up to remedy inter class balance issues that were to surely follow from such a patch.Like I said these devs are something else, certainly speaks volumes for how professional the environment must be at the anet offices.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

consecutive power bursts, edit since edit button isnt working.

[Lonecap.4105]

If you lowered burn damage per stack, you'd only punish weaker condi builds that aren't overperforming. Just reduce the amount of stacks from certain skills that apply them too fast.

[Kulvar.1239]

@anjo.6143 said:Conditions are stupid at moment. Too high, too long, too accessible. It rewards a safe/unskillful game play WAY more than a risk style gameplay. Condi burst are taking more dmg than power bursts on certain classes.

Do you use condition cleanse ? It destroy all the duration of conditions.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

Ur comment makes sense if we were talking condi in other games. In gw2 burn tics can be 5k+ per tic so it's more like gw2 condi is burst consecutively over time.

You're referring to a very specific damage output that only a few classes are capable of. Most classes can't even do Burning damage, and of the ones that can, only 2-3 can actually apply more than a few stacks at a time. I don't know why people act like this is all you see in PvP/WvW. I don't even encounter a Burn Guard or Ele more than once a week these days..

Here comes the Flamethrower Scrapper, right? :p

Thing is, the burning builds arent the only condi builds that burst hard. All of them do. Scourge, burn guard, condi ele, condi thief, condi Mesmer, condi Soulbeast, even condi Warrior (which sucks) and condi Engineer (which also sucks) burst you. Condis very much so just instantly take half your HP. He is absolutely right, GW2 condis are just consecutive bursts.

Exactly! Conservative power bursts is a good comparison to what condi tics are at the moment. If anyone can't achieve this right now its cuz they haven't properly assembled their condi build.Condis are sopose to be dot dps as in damage OVER time. In other games with far more competent devs dot tic damage may accumulate a higher sum than a power burst by a significant amount but it's over a period of time that punishes the effected for not using cleanses. These devs are ridiculous and did the reverse in dropping the condi durations but leaving the damage almost entirely intact post patch, the opposite is what should have happened being durations on condis remaining while their tic damage lowered.Decisions of such really lead me to question the future of the balance of the game, as did the large blanket reduction in power with such a lazy post follow up to remedy inter class balance issues that were to surely follow from such a patch.Like I said these devs are something else, certainly speaks volumes for how professional the environment must be at the anet offices.

Too many cleanses created an arm race. The more cleanses there is, the more conditions have to be bursty to not be useless.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:If you lowered burn damage per stack, you'd only punish weaker condi builds that aren't overperforming. Just reduce the amount of stacks from certain skills that apply them too fast.

Or make improvements to those other underperforming condi builds that also dont promote the same gbage playstyle the current OP condi builds do.

[Lonecap.4105]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:If you lowered burn damage per stack, you'd only punish weaker condi builds that aren't overperforming. Just reduce the amount of stacks from certain skills that apply them too fast.

Or make improvements to those other underperforming condi builds that also dont promote the same gbage playstyle the current OP condi builds do.

Tbh I think condi berserker is a good benchmark for where condi builds should be.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

Ur comment makes sense if we were talking condi in other games. In gw2 burn tics can be 5k+ per tic so it's more like gw2 condi is burst consecutively over time.

You're referring to a very specific damage output that only a few classes are capable of. Most classes can't even do Burning damage, and of the ones that can, only 2-3 can actually apply more than a few stacks at a time. I don't know why people act like this is all you see in PvP/WvW. I don't even encounter a Burn Guard or Ele more than once a week these days..

Here comes the Flamethrower Scrapper, right? :p

No ones talking about flamethrower scrapper but yes burning damage is to high per tic right now, u think 5k per tic is ok? Yet after patch wasnt long before there was a thief still does 5k on backstab lmao community is a joke in this game.

Yes! 5k per tick is totally okay! If you let someone apply that much burning and fail to counter with any of the many available ways to do so, yes, that is perfectly fine. Why wouldn't it be?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The change was made because many CC skills were critting for upwards of 10k. Conditions are damage over time, the don't just instantly take half your HP (or all of it for some classes like Ele) and then CC you so you can be finished off easily.

It had nothing to do with "damage", but that it was being used for instawin fights, like the plague that Rampage was. On the other hand what you talked about has plenty of counters, like Stunbreak, condi cleanse, etc. including team support. While just dying without any chance to fight back had no counters, because you hit your Stunbreak and then what, the next hit kills you anyway?

It created a toxic system where people had to rely on powerful, passive traits to survive.

Ur comment makes sense if we were talking condi in other games. In gw2 burn tics can be 5k+ per tic so it's more like gw2 condi is burst consecutively over time.

You're referring to a very specific damage output that only a few classes are capable of. Most classes can't even do Burning damage, and of the ones that can, only 2-3 can actually apply more than a few stacks at a time. I don't know why people act like this is all you see in PvP/WvW. I don't even encounter a Burn Guard or Ele more than once a week these days..

Here comes the Flamethrower Scrapper, right? :p

No ones talking about flamethrower scrapper but yes burning damage is to high per tic right now, u think 5k per tic is ok? Yet after patch wasnt long before there was a thief still does 5k on backstab lmao community is a joke in this game.

Yes! 5k per tick is totally okay! If you let someone apply that much burning and fail to counter with any of the many available ways to do so, yes, that is perfectly fine. Why wouldn't it be?

U serious? I know such a response is a troll as no one could actually believe that but I'll bite. Than return 15k arc for warrior or 8k bullscharge and throw in 20k back stabs, even backstabbs IF somewhat knowledgeable of the game,skills and mechanics has a list of counter actions so..... why weren't all those and more ok?Theres a reason condi tics are generally lower than power bursts but OVER TIME do more damage than power burst as to punish not using cleanses. Also let's not act like we're simple and pretend there aren't classes that out put and reply condis with said high condi ticks far more often than most classes can clear.Again I kno u prob weren't serious as no one can be that .......

[Curennos.9307]

It seems like condi is currently a little out of date, design wise. The shenanigans people are trying to pull to misportray condi ('it's just a bunch of sequential power bursts' lmao) aside - it seems like people want condi builds to be even more damage over time but don't want those same builds to have the survivability necessary for that to work.

Personally, I agree - nerf condi more, re-tune cleanses a little bit, AND give condi builds the survivability they need to actually make that playstyle work. I'm so tired of being forced to waste amulet space on power stats. But let's not pretend getting 5k burn ticks is anything other than utter failure on the part of the target.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Curennos.9307 said:It seems like condi is currently a little out of date, design wise. The shenanigans people are trying to pull to misportray condi ('it's just a bunch of sequential power bursts' lmao) aside - it seems like people want condi builds to be even more damage over time but don't want those same builds to have the survivability necessary for that to work.

Personally, I agree - nerf condi more, re-tune cleanses a little bit, AND give condi builds the survivability they need to actually make that playstyle work. I'm so tired of being forced to waste amulet space on power stats. But let's not pretend getting 5k burn ticks is anything other than utter failure on the part of the target.

Ur not wrong. Condi builds should require high sustain as well to be effective. Its would make sense for a class relying on dot type damage to also be tanky. I think if the condi damage was more appropriate per tic players would be ok with tankier condi builds but being tanky and crapping out condis in their current state is not ok.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Curennos.9307 said:It seems like condi is currently a little out of date, design wise. The shenanigans people are trying to pull to misportray condi ('it's just a bunch of sequential power bursts' lmao) aside - it seems like people want condi builds to be even more damage over time but don't want those same builds to have the survivability necessary for that to work.

Personally, I agree - nerf condi more, re-tune cleanses a little bit, AND give condi builds the survivability they need to actually make that playstyle work. I'm so tired of being forced to waste amulet space on power stats. But let's not pretend getting 5k burn ticks is anything other than utter failure on the part of the target.

I mean personally I would want condis reworked. Straight up cut condi removal removing damage condis, thats where a lot of the problems originate. The idea of condi as a sustained damage alternative to powers more bursty playstyle doesnt work when, once the enemy has some condis that will do a bunch of damage over the next 5 or 10 seconds on him, they just get cleansed and youre back to square 0. Thats why instead, condi builds are even burstier than power builds. Whats more, theyre just incredibly binary. If you have enough cleanses, there is jack all they can do. If you dont, you lose and there is jack all you can do.

So instead, make them uncleansable, letting them actually be sustained damage alternatives. Lower the damage accross the board by a lot (obviously). And most importantly, change how condis are applied. Right now, a lot of condi bursts are problems because not only do you take a metric crap ton of damage in a single tick, you couldnt even avoid those condis even if you had perfect reactions, because most condi builds fall into one of 3 categories. Pulsing fields covering the point you kinda need to stand on to win the gamemode. Instant cast skills that you cant avoid. And on-X effects that dont get consumed, that would require you to have 100% evade/block uptime to not get hit by (which is obviously not doable).

[Curennos.9307]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:It seems like condi is currently a little out of date, design wise. The shenanigans people are trying to pull to misportray condi ('it's just a bunch of sequential power bursts' lmao) aside - it seems like people want condi builds to be even

more

damage over time but don't want those same builds to have the survivability necessary for that to work.

Personally, I agree - nerf condi more, re-tune cleanses a little bit, AND give condi builds the survivability they need to actually make that playstyle work. I'm so tired of being forced to waste amulet space on power stats. But let's not pretend getting 5k burn ticks is anything other than utter failure on the part of the target.

I mean personally I would want condis reworked. Straight up cut condi removal removing damage condis, thats where a lot of the problems originate. The idea of condi as a sustained damage alternative to powers more bursty playstyle doesnt work when, once the enemy has some condis that will do a bunch of damage over the next 5 or 10 seconds on him, they just get cleansed and youre back to square 0. Thats why instead, condi builds are even burstier than power builds. Whats more, theyre just incredibly binary. If you have enough cleanses, there is jack all they can do. If you dont, you lose and there is jack all

you

can do.

So instead, make them uncleansable, letting them actually be sustained damage alternatives. Lower the damage accross the board by a lot (obviously). And most importantly, change how condis are applied. Right now, a lot of condi bursts are problems because not only do you take a metric kitten ton of damage in a single tick, you couldnt even avoid those condis even if you had perfect reactions, because most condi builds fall into one of 3 categories. Pulsing fields covering the point you kinda need to stand on to win the gamemode. Instant cast skills that you cant avoid. And on-X effects that dont get consumed, that would require you to have 100% evade/block uptime to not get hit by (which is obviously not doable).

Eh. I would rather anet review and rework things on a class by class basis. You have things like firebrand where they have powerful aoe denial skills they can stand in that contribute to their sustain combined with relatively easily accessible projectile denial. In this case, it isnt so much the condis I take issue with so much as the mechanical aspects of how some parts of the class work.

And on the other hand, you have stuff like fire weaver, which was good in 5v5 because it revolved around node control and fire weaver can turn into a 'get off the point or perish, sucker' fire vortex, but the setup suffers in deathmatch because it actually kind of sucks at sticking to a target. Plus like...map design and stuff.

And then theres thief, which...yeah. So point is condi has different troublesome impacts depending on class and situation.

That is not to say condi on it's own does not have issues (Weakness and Resistance are still absolutely kitten stupid, and I could definitely go for more of a ramp-up time), but I don't think it's a good idea to fling out a condi rework when the issue is so...attached to and a result of a lot of other things as well. Instant cast skills that apply condis arent a condi issue, it's a problem with the skill being instant cast, etc etc.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:It seems like condi is currently a little out of date, design wise. The shenanigans people are trying to pull to misportray condi ('it's just a bunch of sequential power bursts' lmao) aside - it seems like people want condi builds to be even

more

damage over time but don't want those same builds to have the survivability necessary for that to work.

Personally, I agree - nerf condi more, re-tune cleanses a little bit, AND give condi builds the survivability they need to actually make that playstyle work. I'm so tired of being forced to waste amulet space on power stats. But let's not pretend getting 5k burn ticks is anything other than utter failure on the part of the target.

I mean personally I would want condis reworked. Straight up cut condi removal removing damage condis, thats where a lot of the problems originate. The idea of condi as a sustained damage alternative to powers more bursty playstyle doesnt work when, once the enemy has some condis that will do a bunch of damage over the next 5 or 10 seconds on him, they just get cleansed and youre back to square 0. Thats why instead, condi builds are even burstier than power builds. Whats more, theyre just incredibly binary. If you have enough cleanses, there is jack all they can do. If you dont, you lose and there is jack all

you

can do.

So instead, make them uncleansable, letting them actually be sustained damage alternatives. Lower the damage accross the board by a lot (obviously). And most importantly, change how condis are applied. Right now, a lot of condi bursts are problems because not only do you take a metric kitten ton of damage in a single tick, you couldnt even avoid those condis even if you had perfect reactions, because most condi builds fall into one of 3 categories. Pulsing fields covering the point you kinda need to stand on to win the gamemode. Instant cast skills that you cant avoid. And on-X effects that dont get consumed, that would require you to have 100% evade/block uptime to not get hit by (which is obviously not doable).

Eh. I would rather anet review and rework things on a class by class basis. You have things like firebrand where they have powerful aoe denial skills they can stand in that contribute to their sustain combined with relatively easily accessible projectile denial. In this case, it isnt so much the condis I take issue with so much as the mechanical aspects of how some parts of the class work.

And on the other hand, you have stuff like fire weaver, which was good in 5v5 because it revolved around node control and fire weaver can turn into a 'get off the point or perish, sucker' fire vortex, but the setup suffers in deathmatch because it actually kind of sucks at sticking to a target. Plus like...map design and stuff.

And then theres thief, which...yeah. So point is condi has different troublesome impacts depending on class and situation.

That is not to say condi on it's own does not have issues (Weakness and Resistance are still absolutely kitten stupid, and I could definitely go for more of a ramp-up time), but I don't think it's a good idea to fling out a condi rework when the issue is so...attached to and a result of a lot of other things as well. Instant cast skills that apply condis arent a condi issue, it's a problem with the skill being instant cast, etc etc.

Right, but the actual different skill types would be evaluated on a case by case basis at the last step. But all condi has the problem of being binary and bursty instead of sustained damage. It not being cleansable is a neccessary first step if we want to fix that.