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Another post about the Conjure Weapons!


Eilah.7908

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All right, I know this subject has been talked about countless times, but I have recently been thinking about the Conjure utilities, and wanted to share my ideas. This is mostly in the hopes that, as there have been some pretty large overhauls made to other classes, this skill set may be under consideration as well.

In my opinion, conjure skills suffer from an over-reach in their design. There are two main functions that a conjure weapon sets out to fill, the first being a trade off for the elementalist sacrificing their versatile weapon skills for a more focused and limited skill set in the conjured weapon. the second role is group support, by sharing that weapon to other players. However, I think the shared aspect of the conjure winds up holding back these skills by making their effectiveness dramatically unpredictable. The skills need to be strong enough that a player feels justified using them alone, but not so powerful that well coordinated use breaks the game (look back at the old ice bow 4, which was nerfed to the ground after it proved too strong for coordinated burst). In large open world groups and meta events, dropping a conjure often feels like half of the skill is going to waste, as the second weapon may be left completely alone by other players, and a player who does pick it up may not be familiar enough with the set to use it effectively. I'm sure this has been a balancing headache for the devs, trying to find a way to make these skills useful to the a lower denominator without being completely over powered.

My wish is to see the purpose of these skills simplified and refined, focusing on the temporary trade off of the elementalist's weapon skills for the more focused conjure skills. The specific idea I have is to remove the ground targeted pick up weapon and replace it with a group effect around the elementalist similar to firebrands ashes of the just. The simplest version i can think of is to make activating a conjure weapon trigger the corresponding elements' attunement effect on nearby allies next attack ( fire axe triggers sunspot, lightning hammer triggers electric discharge, etc). I think making this change, while keeping most of the other aspects of these skills (30 second duration, 60 second cooldown) would really dramatically improve the feeling of using them. The specific numbers on skill damage and duration could then be more easily tuned to a single players use.

As for the elite, my ideal world would see it changed to an 'arcane' or 'elemantal' greatsword, maintaining almost all of it's current skill effects, but changing the condition applied by skill 2 based on the element the player is attuned to (burning for fire, chill for water, weaken or vulnerable for are, cripple or immobilize for earth).

So, I know these aren't particularly new ideas, but i just wanted to throw them out there. I'm interested to hear what other people think, and what others might want for these skills!

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Remove the activation time of the conjure while you're at it. It really holds back Ele as well.

But Arcane Greatsword is a good idea. It makes sense since there is already a fire axe conjure. I would push for immobilize conditions on Earth attunement.

Cripple is such a weak condition in comparison to chill, torment, immobilize, fear, etc.

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honestly i'd prefer just a reduction of the cast time to 1/2 second. I feel like removing the ground target would go a long way to improving the flow, and I think (for the changes i've laid out) an instant cast would would be really annoying to try to counter play. i don't think these skills should feel like weapon swapping or engi kits, but their cast time should be backed up by significant impact

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Your suggestion is a heavy nerf for solo play.My current build is using 2 conjures (shield and hammer) along with lighting rod. It allows me to chain cc, drop conjure, cast another, pick one on ground, then another. Well, it's a bit messy to play, but very fun.I would rather have ammo on them.

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that's fair! i personally don't enjoy that playstyle, since it can be disrupted so easily by other players picking up the second conjure if you rely on it, or by the flow of a fight moving away from where you placed that pick up. I'd prefer to see the functionality of conjures shaken up a little bit to allow for something new, where they're designed around being a temporary change to your skillset instead of something you try to hold on to permanently.

I also don't think my idea for the temporary group attack buff is the only way to offset the removal of the pick up conjure! i can definitely imagine something else, like pulsing out aoe boons or stat boosts while holding the conjured weapon.

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Although actually, on thinking more about it, I could get behind an ammo system replacing the pick-up, giving you more opportunity to keep the weapons up if you do want to hold them permanently. If it was changed to like, casting the conjure equips it for you only, and it's got 2 ammo with a 60 second ammo recharge? that could be very fun

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How I would like to see them

Conjure. Equip a conjured weapon in your hands. (No more weapon for allies, sad but mandatory to buff the skills)Gain increased stats. At the end of duration or when unequiped, it does a spell ( Aura, dmg, heal etc (1) ) ( A spell at the end, instead of beginning, for all weapons )Activation : 1 sec - Recharge time : 20 sec ( instead of 60 ) 60 sec for elite one ( instead of 180 )Duration: 30 secondsRadius : 240 ( Number of targets : x, dmg : x, etc )

(1) like you say, electric discharge, etc but I think it still should need the support traits if you want to share the effect to the group.For example the conjure trait could share these spells, or the aura sharing.

Arcane Greatsword is a nice idea. It could act a bit like Weave self or Rebound : different bonus stats, conditions/effects, a different spell at the end of duration based on the attunement you equip.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would either love to have kits or just one "iconic" skill of each conjure weapon with a severly reduced cooldown. In case of the elite for example: make it fgs skill 3 with a 30-40 sec cd. Especially fresh air in wvw this would help you out a lot. You would finally have a good and fast way to cleave downed enemies.

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yeah, so i think matching their functionality to engi kits would be a bad move. kits work the way they do specifically to balance out engi's lack of a weapon swap. since ele has attunements, we really don't need to have that functionality. imagine, with a simple kit rework of the conjures, an elementalist could run around with effectively 8 sets of easy, on-demand weapon skills. that might open some goofy and fun builds, but ultimately that's not a niche that elementalist needs filled.

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I Wonder who thought it would be brillant to give the profession with the most skills just more skills to play with, some of which are just copy/paste from weapon skills. I would have prefered more utility. I mean the intent was nice, sharing things and stuff, but the real world doesn't work that way. If i were to rework it, it would be the same as glyphs summons. One conjure weapon depending on attunement. Make the set conjure weapon/elemental minion/storm, and find new glyph utilities to replace old ones.

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It could be nice if we share, not the weapons, but the stat bonus with allies.

Like the trait in fire that is useless, or a new trait in Earth or Arcane : when equip a conjured weapons, grant the attributes to allies in 300 range (10 sec, interval 3sec). It's time Elem grant a bonus to allies, like Assassin Presence, Empower Allies etc. So the fire greatsword, or hammer etc would be useful for more than just spam the storm at beginning of the fight.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:I wish conjures worked like engi kits.

That would be too much in my opinion, considering that elementalist already has 4 weapon skill sets with attunements.

Won't be too much because that 4 weapon skill sets doesn't have enough damage.Only fire can do a good damage, most meta builds only use Fire and when off CD they use 1 or 2 skills of Air.

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@JohnWater.5760 said:Won't be too much because that 4 weapon skill sets doesn't have enough damage.Only fire can do a good damage, most meta builds only use Fire and when off CD they use 1 or 2 skills of Air.

You are acting like damage is the only meaningful metric in the game. It is not.

Having the conjured weapons as kits would add tons of utility to the class. Not all conjured weapons are just damage.Lightning hammer adds damage, mobility and CC.Earth shield adds alot of defense (blocks, invuln, protection) and CC.Frost bow adds some healing for allies, damage and CC (chill and the stun on 5).Fiery greatsword adds damage and mobility.Flame axe adds damage and mobility.

Elementalist already is one of the most versatile classes in the game, simply because they will always have access to damage, defense, healing, and CC. Because of the very nature of their attunement system. Earth will always provide defense and CC, no matter which weapon or utilities you chose. Water always adds sustain. Fire and air always provide damage, air oftenly also providing CC.

Look at how the engineer worked with kits historically. They were able to be versatile as well by picking different kits for different tasks. Like how elixir gun provides sustain, grenades or bombs provide damage, tool kit (even if it isn't really taken anymore) provides defense and CC.....

Elementalist getting conjured weapons as kits would make their versatility skyrocket to a level that is not justified in my opinion. They already are probably the most versatile class in the game thanks to their attunements which provide everything one could possibly wish for in a build. And now you want to double that versatility by making them able to switch between conjured weapons on top of it without any downtime?

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There's a few differences between kits and conjures. Add any if I missed anything,

Kits: always avaliable, act as weapon swap, can trigger an advanced skill when activated. They also trigger many useful runes that proc on heal or elite use.

Conjures: grant two weapons but on 60 sec cool down (180 for elite), grants additional stats ranging from 75-260, require activation time and placement to use. They can also grant fire aura.

Engi's hate kits cause Anet always has to balance with them in mind and Ele's hate conjures cause they're clunky. To avoid both problems, I would remove the activation time, remove fire aura, change two conjures to two charges, and most likely, reduce the stat bonus of certain conjures.

Conjures will still have their CD. The second charge can still be used as placement for an ally, they'll still remain different from kits, and they won't drastically change Ele's damage output given their reduced stat bonuses.

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