I coyote'd into a brick wall playing PoF Personal Story...

[emopausal.5362]

I simply can't get my head wrapped around how impossibly difficult aspects of this game are and why they're written this way in the first place.

Not every player is an op grinder with max gear ... that being said, I expect to die, a lot playing the Fires/Thorns xpacs b/c, as I was told, they're not meant to be solo content. I've got level-400 self-crafted gear but even that seems to be insufficient. The game, apparently, penalizes, harshly, for being a solo player. (Yah, yah, sure, GUILD Wars... I get it...)

Ok. Fine. Expectations set.

But, when I'm doing a personal story in PoF, I don't expect to get my fanny waxed repeatedly resulting in a reset (go back to the beginning) of the story's chapter (Path of Fire::The Sacrifice) either. That's asinine behavior and incredibly poor design, imo. Exacerbated by the NPCs, literally, just standing around during mini-boss and boss fights. Oops. Sorry. AI taking a break... I'd rez you but I'm too busy scratching my butt...

Do they not play test? With normal toons?

Or, if this level of difficulty (remember, games are supposed to be challenging and fun) requires doing the LW stories first, then where's that intuited/taught?

First game I've ever played, in literally decades, where the designers work this hard to discourage my in-game spending and investment in additional xpac content.

I know this post will get all the fanbois riled up... "noob!", they'll shout!

And they'd be right and that's my entire point.

You level up/down for zones changes, why don't you do the same for personal stories based on gear?

[Quench.7091]

There's probably a small expectation that you'd be in exotics or higher. If you have a friend with crafting for your armor, they could probably hook you up in a flash.

[LuRkEr.9462]

If you are in exotics and getting rolled in story mode you may want to check your build. It sounds like either bad gameplay or you are using something with no defense in it at all (or not enough offense, as that is the best defense lol)

If you want help and aren't just complaining please post your build.

[Tsakhi.8124]

The whole of Path of Fire is a lesson in attrition. "Night of Fires" is what killed me a lot, I think. What class are you playing? I have a few exotics that might be helpful to you. Also, I need to play "The Sacrifice" again so I know what to look for and to find a sound strategy.

[Randulf.7614]

The problem is the variance in player skill is enormous and they need to find a sweet spot.

I also can't imagine many players aren't in exotic, although to be fair that isn't really a big deal if players are in rare gear. The game can't scale to gear because gear doesn't define what you can and cannot do for the most part. It's builds and skills you use. The game expects and often demands tha players be flexible enough to change up their skills and weapons and traits when they get stuck.

At the end of the day, PoF was very rarely criticised for its difficulty unlike HoT and certain aspects of LS4 which are a lot more annoying so if a major flaw existed in the design, the roadblock would be widespread amongst the playerbase.

The best thing to do is let us know more about the profession you play and where you are struggling so we can assist you. This is a cooperative game and any advice players can give, they will give (and most will do it without judgement)

edit: I see you mentioned the Sacrifice. If the Herald is causing issues, that is just a mechanics issue. I think I've been caught out on certain professions before as well. It's all about movement and watching her telegraphs for her biggest attacks and making sure you don't get caught in any of her firewalls. It's basically a mobility fight.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@"emopausal.5362" said:I simply can't get my head wrapped around how impossibly difficult aspects of this game are and why they're written this way in the first place.

Not every player is an op grinder with max gear ... that being said, I expect to die, a lot playing the Fires/Thorns xpacs b/c, as I was told, they're not meant to be solo content. I've got level-400 self-crafted gear but even that seems to be insufficient. The game, apparently, penalizes, harshly, for being a solo player. (Yah, yah, sure, GUILD Wars... I get it...)

but... for most people they ARE solo content. If you exclude metas and bigger events. Also as a player who solo'ed through lw2, lw3, lw4, Icebrood so far, HoT and Pof: getting GOOD gear is easy. Takes as much time as ranting on the forums. Well, a tiny bit longer. But not that much.

Ok. Fine. Expectations set.

But, when I'm doing a personal story in PoF, I don't expect to get my fanny waxed repeatedly resulting in a reset (go back to the beginning) of the story's chapter (Path of Fire::The Sacrifice) either. That's asinine behavior and incredibly poor design, imo. Exacerbated by the NPCs, literally, just standing around during mini-boss and boss fights. Oops. Sorry. AI taking a break... I'd rez you but I'm too busy scratching my butt...

well, the solution is not to get downed. Most are able to do that.

Do they not play test? With normal toons?

I am sure they did. And many players succeeded where you failed.

Or, if this level of difficulty (remember, games are supposed to be challenging and fun) requires doing the LW stories first, then where's that intuited/taught?

the lw stories help you gear up and help you getting better. But they are not mandatory nor needed. Unless you just rushed through personal story, have no idea what you are doing and running around with some broken build or fractal/raid dps build and then be surprised that things kill you.

First game I've ever played, in literally decades, where the designers work this hard to discourage my in-game spending and investment in additional xpac content.

really? Me was the opposite. I died a lot in HoT. So I started to learn and got better. A lot better. Because I stopped listening to the 'all zerker' gear people and I actually sat down, thought about my weaknesses and how gear and adaption might help to compensate.

I know this post will get all the fanbois riled up... "noob!", they'll shout!

Well, maybe they have a point?

And they'd be right and that's my entire point.

You level up/down for zones changes, why don't you do the same for personal stories based on gear?

Because those areas are ENDGAME content? And it is EXPECTED that you have at least EXOTIC?In fact, hot, pof, lw are all balanced around exotics. So if you are on asc they are a bit easier and on rare a lot harder. They are supposed to challenge you and keep you busy for a while.

Strangely some people do not understand the concept.

[Cuks.8241]

You don't need exotics. If you have problems with personal or any story, it is a skill issue, not gear. Most likely you are failing mechanics. There is just not enough difference in gear tiers in gw2 that it will make such a difference. Keep in mind that with gear we see like a few 10 % difference in performance between tiers while a difference in skill between a skilled dps and an average dps is like 10 times (1000 %).It is an action style game play and dodging and movement and knowledge of you build is somewhat required. Unless you have a very specific build and gear standing still and face tanking stuff just doesn't work. And no, majority of people playing story does not have special tank builds.

It is hard to give advice since I don't know where the problem is. Have you played personal story and lvled your character 80? Otherwise check your utility skills for something that will help you survive and learn to time your dodges, this makes a huge difference.

[Blocki.4931]

Spend 15 gold on gear.

[Taril.8619]

The Sacrifice? Really?

I mean, the only dangerous part there is if you're trying to go for the 3 Elite Patrols in 3 minutes achievement.

Herald of Balthazar has all of 1 actually dangerous attack, which is the slowly rotating wall of fire. Which you just... Don't stand in. Then she does 0 damage. (If you're in one of her rings... Just dodge out of it)

Balthazar himself is a push over. Though I'm curious if going down actually progresses that fight due to how it ends anyway...

[Super Hayes.6890]

I steam rolled this mission on most of my characters but I definitely hit a brick wall at the herald with one of them. For the life of me I can't remember which one but I got past it with help and was good on the missions after. Some of the PoF missions seem to target one profession or another but the content is largely player friendly. Sorry you are going through this. Take the above advice. These people know what they're talking about and have helped me many times.

[Aaralyna.3104]

I would say all the story content is soloable. Maybe an exception is Visions of the Past (the strike mission bit). The biggest thing to look at are the tells (visuals on the ground, direction they face etc) of the mobs and bosses to make you survive.

An example:

Pocket raptors > aoe them (1 by 1 there are easy but since they all come at once they will assassinate hug you if not carefull)Smokescales > keep move yourself and you can kill them while they don't scratch you much. If you stand still you are a 1 shot with them invulnerable and hiding.Mobs with shields > if a mob has a shield surrounding or in front of them... do not attack (auto attack also not) as that will backfire at you since you do damage to yourself.

Orange/red field on the ground > do not stand inWhite field that fills up with orange/red > dodge when it is about to be fully red/orangeArrows on the floor originating from the boss/mob > there will be attack incoming into that direction

And there are tons more like this.

For the rest, if you can use exotic gear and weapon (can be bought from TP or gotten from karma vendors in Orr) this will help. Ofcourse you need to be lvl 80 when you step into the living worlds and expansions as those are lvl 80 content.

You can always check out guides or video's about classes and bosses/story and look at builds at metabattle (snowcrows for raids but this does not work well for open world and story).

I assume you know CC (breakbars) and dodging, if not, check the gw2 wiki.

If you keep getting stuck, duo some story with a friend (you will start to understand mechanics and mobs over time). We all started somewhere and improved over the years :)

P.s. the name of the game "Guild Wars" has nothing to do with player guilds. It has to do with something related to the story itself.

[Ashantara.8731]

@emopausal.5362 said:I simply can't get my head wrapped around how impossibly difficult aspects of this game are and why they're written this way in the first place.

As people asked before, perhaps you could post your build here so that we can help improving it? :)

[mindcircus.1506]

@emopausal.5362 said:snipI get that you are frustrated, but you make antagonizing statements about people it usually breeds a hostile repsonse.

Instead of taking an initially combative stance to this issue why not answer the following so we can actually help you:

1. What Build are you running? Class/spec. If possible just copy your build tempalte here into the thread and we can look at ingame. Someone may be able to point out some QoL changes that could help you.

2. What gear are you running? This isn't for people to just tell you to get better gear, but instead to offer options that again may increase your character's QoL. We have no idea is you are running condi gear on a power build... or even matching stat gear in the first place.

3. Explain what specific story step in PoF you are having issues with and I am sure you will get many people offering you advice.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

What gear stats are you using? What is your build/class? You should at the very least be using a build designed for solo play, and some classes have a much easier time with story content than others. All the personal story and most other content in the game is soloable, there is just a steep learning curve to it.

There are many different ways to overcome difficult story content. If you are limited by mechanical skill, then use your game knowledge to design builds for specific encounters. If you are struggling with one class, try a different one. If you keep dying in full dps gear, get a more tanky set of armor.

[Algreg.3629]

every game will be too hard for someone, even Animal Crossing.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Randulf.7614 said:The problem is the variance in player skill is enormous and they need to find a sweet spot.

I also can't imagine many players aren't in exotic, although to be fair that isn't really a big deal if players are in rare gear. The game can't scale to gear because gear doesn't define what you can and cannot do for the most part. It's builds and skills you use. The game expects and often demands tha players be flexible enough to change up their skills and weapons and traits when they get stuck.

At the end of the day, PoF was very rarely criticised for its difficulty unlike HoT and certain aspects of LS4 which are a lot more annoying so if a major flaw existed in the design, the roadblock would be widespread amongst the playerbase.A fair bit of feedback has popped up over the past couple years about Night of Fires, the Eater of Souls encounter and the final fight.

[JekthAvid.1408]

I've played this game solo for years... did HoT story all on my own and then I got into other games... when I came back, PoF was out, so I got it and started playing again! I only just joined my first guild, maybe a month ago? I recommend making sure your armor and weapons are exotic at least, I don't think that lvl 400 crafting is exotic, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I do not like using pre-made builds, so I experimented and tweaked my gear and traits until I found a place I was happy with. You can but plenty of exotic gear on the TP, but it could be expensive.

[Yggranya.5201]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"emopausal.5362" said:I simply can't get my head wrapped around how impossibly difficult aspects of this game are and why they're written this way in the first place.

Not every player is an op grinder with max gear ... that being said, I expect to die, a lot playing the Fires/Thorns xpacs b/c, as I was told, they're not meant to be solo content. I've got level-400 self-crafted gear but even that seems to be insufficient. The game, apparently, penalizes, harshly, for being a solo player. (Yah, yah, sure,

GUILD

Wars... I get it...)

but... for most people they ARE solo content. If you exclude metas and bigger events. Also as a player who solo'ed through lw2, lw3, lw4, Icebrood so far, HoT and Pof: getting GOOD gear is easy. Takes as much time as ranting on the forums. Well, a tiny bit longer. But not that much.

Ok. Fine. Expectations set.

But, when I'm doing a

personal

story in PoF, I don't expect to get my fanny waxed repeatedly resulting in a reset (go back to the beginning) of the story's chapter (Path of Fire::The Sacrifice) either. That's asinine behavior and incredibly poor design, imo. Exacerbated by the NPCs, literally, just standing around during mini-boss and boss fights. Oops. Sorry. AI taking a break... I'd rez you but I'm too busy scratching my butt...

well, the solution is not to get downed. Most are able to do that.

Do they not play test? With normal toons?

I am sure they did. And many players succeeded where you failed.

Or, if this level of difficulty (remember, games are supposed to be challenging

and

fun) requires doing the LW stories first, then where's that intuited/taught?

the lw stories help you gear up and help you getting better. But they are not mandatory nor needed. Unless you just rushed through personal story, have no idea what you are doing and running around with some broken build or fractal/raid dps build and then be surprised that things kill you.

First game I've ever played, in literally decades, where the designers work this hard to discourage my in-game spending and investment in additional xpac content.

really? Me was the opposite. I died a lot in HoT. So I started to learn and got better. A lot better. Because I stopped listening to the 'all zerker' gear people and I actually sat down, thought about my weaknesses and how gear and adaption might help to compensate.

I know this post will get all the fanbois riled up... "noob!", they'll shout!

Well, maybe they have a point?

And they'd be right and that's my entire point.

You level up/down for zones changes, why don't you do the same for personal stories based on gear?

Because those areas are ENDGAME content? And it is EXPECTED that you have at least EXOTIC?In fact, hot, pof, lw are all balanced around exotics. So if you are on asc they are a bit easier and on rare a lot harder. They are supposed to challenge you and keep you busy for a while.

Strangely some people do not understand the concept.

I'm sure when they read this, they instantly become better. You have changed someones gaming experience for the better, Amazing.

[Trise.2865]

Say it with me, kids: "Stats don't win this game."In answer to the question: yes they do play test these scenarios. They are perfectly doable in common (less than Exotic) gear. Difficult, for sure, but possible.

Look at your build. If you're having trouble with defenses, slot in some more defensive skills: Blocks, defense ups, teleports, stunbreaks, etc..Look at your strategy. Is there a mechanic you didn't notice before? Are you combining your skills and targeting them effectively?Look at your tactics. Are you standing in fire? or standing around in general? Are you taking advantage of facing? and timing your defenses?

[Cobrakon.3108]

Problem 1: Unfortunately, I believe meta builds are now factored into even the personal story. If you don't run a meta build or dmg focused build, the fights can go slow, and being slow gives the opportunity for the enemy npc to get more damage in.

Problem 2: Fight mechanics aren't always clear. As an example in the dark rhimes zone for personal story, I was curious why the break bars were so strong on the enemies, only to find out later that the extra weapon they give you for that zone takes away a bunch of the break bar making the fights in there much easier/quicker. My game play style seems to be a magnet for missing key mechanics like this.

[Lumikki.1725]

In my opinion personal story quest are too much about gameplay challenge. Most of the missions are just fine, but not all.

Some main story missions are just too difficult or confusing for REAL NEW PLAYER. It's not just about how good gear character have. But really new player hasn't yet learn how to build character or don't even know how the game combat really works or doesn't understand some situations or story references.

It takes time to learn to play any game.

For any veteran, what I'm not, these situation are easy. But for real new player they can die even simple main quest missions. I remember my human nobility mission where I died in first story mission. But when you don't really yet know much about the game, you make a lot of mistakes. For veteran dying isn't big deal, but for new player it still can be.

In my opinion creating too high challenges in main story mission is biggest mistake in this Guild Wars 2. This is because if new player gets annoyed by the difficulty of story gameplay. That can make player so angry about the main story, that they stop doing story missions. That isn't good, because many nice rewards are behind them and it gives the backgound story for the gameworld. Challenge can be put in content what is more a choise for player. Main story should be fun and informative, not annoying, because the gameplay design.

My issues in main story are:

1. Many choises in story are something what new players don't really even understand, because they don't know the game yet.
2. Some missions are annoying as hell, by story situations and gameplay.
3. Some missions are too difficult for new players.

That been sayed. You can allways do any story missions, even if you die a lot. But it's NOT FUN for everyone, while it should be.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Seven years ago, I died during Core Personal Story missions. I think many of us did. Especially because you did not have to wait to level up to a certain level to access the Story.If Personal Story was made easier, and really, it's pretty easy, all those that didn't leave during that time, certainly would leave when they hit Heart of Thorns or Path of Fire, or most of the Living World maps (due to the jump in difficulty).

[ChillyKoti.1928]

I did all HoT and PoF stories solo.Is there something in your build that you need help? Some help in strategy? Or legit just some help doing the story at all?I agree that some part were pretty though. (Yes, even if I did that solo, I did died multiple times and needed to tweak my build a lot for specific situations.)

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Cobrakon.3108" said:Problem 1: Unfortunately, I believe meta builds are now factored into even the personal story. If you don't run a meta build or dmg focused build, the fights can go slow, and being slow gives the opportunity for the enemy npc to get more damage in.No.Have you ever gone into a hard story instance such as Hearts and Minds or Scruffy 2.0 with a meta build and then purposefully geared in Masterwork and observed the difference?I know you have not.If you had you wouldn't make an unfounded ignorant comment like this just to grind a personal axe on "meta builds".Story instances are absolutely not balanced around meta/top 10% dps.None of them.They aren't even balanced around exotics.Problem 2: Fight mechanics aren't always clear. As an example in the dark rhimes zone for personal story, I was curious why the break bars were so strong on the enemies, only to find out later that the extra weapon they give you for that zone takes away a bunch of the break bar making the fights in there much easier/quicker. My game play style seems to be a magnet for missing key mechanics like this.There is an interface callout regarding the weapon in this Story instance. It needs to be clicked/dismissed.How much clearer does it need to be?

[Khisanth.2948]

@"Lumikki.1725" said:In my opinion personal story quest are too much about gameplay challenge. Most of the missions are just fine, but not all.

Some main story missions are just too difficult or confusing for REAL NEW PLAYER. It's not just about how good gear character have. But really new player hasn't yet learn how to build character or don't even know how the game combat really works or doesn't understand some situations or story references.

It takes time to learn to play any game.

For any veteran, what I'm not, these situation are easy. But for real new player they can die even simple main quest missions. I remember my human nobility mission where I died in first story mission. But when you don't really yet know much about the game, you make a lot of mistakes. For veteran dying isn't big deal, but for new player it still can be.

In my opinion creating too high challenges in main story mission is biggest mistake in this Guild Wars 2. This is because if new player gets annoyed by the difficulty of story gameplay. That can make player so angry about the main story, that they stop doing story missions. That isn't good, because many nice rewards are behind them and it gives the backgound story for the gameworld. Challenge can be put in content what is more a choise for player. Main story should be fun and informative, not annoying, because the gameplay design.

My issues in main story are:

1. Many choises in story are something what new players don't really even understand, because they don't know the game yet.
2. Some missions are annoying as hell, by story situations and gameplay.
3. Some missions are too difficult for new players.

That been sayed. You can allways do any story missions, even if you die a lot. But it's NOT FUN for everyone, while it should be.

but how long is that newness supposed to last?

"The Sacrifice" is theoretically at a point where the player has gone through the entirety of the personal story as well as the HoT story.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Seven years ago, I died during Core Personal Story missions. I think many of us did. Especially because you did not have to wait to level up to a certain level to access the Story.If Personal Story was made easier, and really, it's pretty easy, all those that didn't leave during that time, certainly would leave when they hit Heart of Thorns or Path of Fire, or most of the Living World maps (due to the jump in difficulty).

Ugh ... that horrible sequence of instances where you are forced to use calabolg :/It has only gotten worse if you play that on a rev now. "oh hey I think you should play without any healing skill now. I bet you weren't expecting that! gl hf"