Power revenant needs a decent melee weapon!

[frareanselm.1925]

I've tried the "wooden potatoes" Shortbow Ferocity Renegeade, and It has been by far one of the funniest builds. The efficiency is comparable to a constant bolt storm of the elementalist, feeling like a God killing group of mobs.I really don't understand why it isnt recommended in top build websites. I've compared the DPS between the typical condi kalla build vs the power build in training golems, and I kill them slightly faster with the power setup. Condi shortbow feels slow and lacks burst.

What is preventing me to level up and gear a lvl 80 renegade toon is the lack of a second melee weapon set which allows the build to be viable.The melee wepon that usually people recommend for power is dual sword. The n4 skill provides a pack of vulnerabilities which gives to the player the "false illusion" of dealing decent damage, but when the vulnes disappear the dps falls to the floor, because by default the autoattack is ridiculosly low.The option of hammer has been discarded previously in other threads, and using staff intended for healing as damage weapon susms up the problem.So there is no reason to drop the shortbow and swap to a useless melee weapon, even the shortbow autoattack is better, which give's me the feeling of playing a incomplete specialization.I said in the beginning I've had tons of fun, but it does not worth to make a character to only use a shortbow.

Please Anet give Revenant some love!Guardian is the example of that can be done. Power virtues excels in pure direct damage while fireburn is top in condi damage!

[JohnWater.5760]

Sword/Sword and Hammer is pretty good for me.

@frareanselm.1925 said:Condi shortbow feels slow and lacks burst.

Yes, it is true.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

That moment when a shortbow is literally designed as longbow but with a range of a shortbow

Anyways shortbow needs a major rework from 0 along with the whole spec anyway cuz we need range utility condi weapon (which should be core anyway), sword need to find it identify what the fuck it want to be, a single target weapon or aoe and from there release a second weapon.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

Both weapons are fine, except Sb 2

[frareanselm.1925]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Both weapons are fine, except Sb 2

Fine compared to what? A sword+shield guardian does more DPS than the reve with 2swords.

[Virdo.1540]

i wish i could play with mace as power weapon.Its so much more fun than sword mainhand

Even staff was, until they added "Ready-Set-Go" to the Staff 5

[Zaret.1450]

Well first i guess you talk about raid builds as you said the training golem is where you tried.The thing is that , in snow crows at least the dont have the power rene because its "too similar to the alacrene build and rota " and its true , not completely but more or less its the same, now that said i agree that revs need other power weapon, hammer has been nerfed , it might be good for pvp or world but the moment you need dps in raid you lack a lot as its too slow in every attack, sb is a bit hybrid and its fun because the cds are low and energy costs are low too so you can chain skills but lacks a bit in power dmg , swords are good but the cds are long and the sw3 is useless in bosses fights as its too slow and with too little dmg , the legends ... Well in kalla you have icerazor and soulcleave to spend energy and they have decent dmg , only thing maybe too much cd and too much energy cost , i mean icerazor has 21 secs cd and 25 energy cost , more or less , its not bad but seing as we only have swords as weapons we dont have too many options to choose , in shiro , at least in taid the only usable skill is IO so we need to use sword skills and citadel bombardment in shiro to spend energy .Well there is a rota on youtube that works fine ,ark doesnt record all the dmg on rev the same way it has problems recording condi clases , the thing is it fells a bit "forced " i mean while in shiro you only use 1 of his skills that is the upkeep while in kalla you use just 2 , upkeep and icerazor , then you use only sw/sw , and the last thing is citadel bombardment wich needs the enemy to have a huge hitbox to deal dmg as its a skill with a lot of rng . It is decent in the end but i end up feeling i have not used the rev's potential , having other weapon to choose from would help in my opinion, i mean condi renegade has something similar but as you use hammer/axe and sb even using only one or two skills from the legends you feel youre doing things as weapon skills have short cds and energy cost so you are alwais chaining things and have the legend skills as backup but power feels like too much AA chains .

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

@zaswer.5246 said:Well in kalla you have icerazor and soulcleave to spend energy and they have decent dmg , only thing maybe too much cd and too much energy cost , i mean icerazor has >21 secs cd and 25 energy cost , more or less , its not bad

But thats actually really good? Icerazors alone is 3.3k DPS on a Power Renegade. That doesnt even include the extra damage it provides through dance on death. Its one of the best skills for Power Renegade.

but seing as we only have swords as weapons we dont have too many options to choose , in shiro , at least in taid the only usable skill is IO

Legends in general are super boring. Sadly.Mallyx, Shiro, Jalis. If you want to maximize DPS you press one Skill and then forget that the legend exists.

Overall i agree though. Revenant needs way more weapons. Not only for power. We dont even have a ranged Main Hand Only Weapon.

[Yasai.3549]

Power rev needs a decent Ranged Power option or Utility Power option.

Staff used to be our Utility Power option but with the nerf meteor, it was degraded to full time Utility Defense weapon.It has literally no damage left on it and the only thing which has going for it right now is the Block and Cleanse.

Other Professions like Ranger and Warrior has GS which double both as offense and utility weapons, while others straight up have so many weapons that they can easily match a 2nd weapon loadout to complement their build, while Rev is forever stuck with Sword/Sword/Axe/Staff as one of their loadouts and no other Mainhands to synergize with Power.

Hammer used to be pretty decent replacement for Staff, back when IO had Quickness on it, but now it's just a sorry mess which is really difficult to use in mid to close range and doesn't even boast any sort of self peel like Ranger LB and DH LB's Knockbacks.

We seriously need a new Power Utility weapon which can be used for offense and utility, and maybe rework hammer or introduce a new ranged power weapon altogether.

SB is also not in a great state, having many directional restrictions to their skills (All skills must be cast in a tight 90 degree cone forward or it will get a pathing fail error message) and SB2 straight up missing walking targets.

[Obtena.7952]

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Both weapons are fine, except Sb 2

Fine compared to what? A sword+shield guardian does more DPS than the reve with 2swords.

It's fine compared to nothing ... because this comparison or any other is irrelevant to begin with.

[Buran.3796]

@"frareanselm.1925" said:I've tried the "wooden potatoes" Shortbow Ferocity Renegeade, and It has been by far one of the funniest builds. The efficiency is comparable to a constant bolt storm of the elementalist, feeling like a God killing group of mobs.I really don't understand why it isnt recommended in top build websites. I've compared the DPS between the typical condi kalla build vs the power build in training golems, and I kill them slightly faster with the power setup. Condi shortbow feels slow and lacks burst.

That's a open world PvE build.I use the Vallun's PvP power Herald build at PvE and did solo almost every hero point in HoT with it, very easily, mostly because albeit isn't a dps powerhause, is a defiant bar breaking powerhouse, so you can null the most dangeous attacks and mechanics from the champions in a blink, combining the staff #5, Chaotic Release, Elemental Blast, Jade Winds, sword #2 and sword #4.Lord Hizen's condi Herald is even stronger, abeit for direrent reasons: can do more sustained dps to a larger number of targets while being tankier, to the point that He soloed all the bosses in fractals and a lot of open world events and champions designed to be fighted by generous-sized teams of players.

Wooden Potatoes has some interested build guides, but oftenly too one dimensional and too focused in damage: It's pure zerk FB can decimate large crowds of small creeps in seconds, but at the same time struggles when facing 4 elemental fire djins, being so glass cannon, and some of them could have hard times doing some OW content while playing alone. I was able to defeat 3 veteran bristlebacks (or the fire djins) fighting against them at once with the PvP build because is better suited to survive under high pressure, whereas most of the "meta" builds for raids and fractals will melt in the floor in matter of seconds when they face hard content outside a self-supported and minmaxed team.

For PvP sure, Rev deserves another power weapon, because staff is mainly for defense and is not as good as used to be (and less fun to use); but for PvE I find that the class has everything which needs, because both power and condi builds stomps across the content. I would remake the hammer entirely into a cqc weapon, since have been more than a year from the last time I used it consistenly and don't have the intention to use it ever again (I burned every bridge of empathy with it despite sword/hammer was my go to at the HoT release and did use hammer/staff in a WvW for three years). Now it only inspires me apathy.

[Zaret.1450]

Remember that pve also includes raids and fractals, i dont know about fractals but in raid renegades are unbalanced , alacrene is too strong and power renegade is one of the lowest , also i dont know in other modes but herald in raids is nonexistant i mean renegade is beter in everything compared to herald for raids and its someting that could be solved (at least give quickness to herald or something and done)

[Taril.8619]

Sword/Sword are decent for Power.

Bearing in mind, that a significant portion of your damage will come from Shiro and Rene upkeep skills, which deal flat damage scaling off Power onto all your attacks (Same as Battle Scars) which is likely why Sword's auto attacks aren't hugely damaging, because they aren't the only thing that's dealing damage when you auto attack.

Which is also a reason why Hammer isn't so great, since it's all about slow singular hits, but Power Rev is balanced around proccing Shiro/Life Siphon effects repeatedly to bolster its damage output.

Also, it's why Shortbow is actually decent for Power too. With fast auto attacks and multihits on skills 2, 3 and 4 you can get some decent power scaled damage on there.

[JekthAvid.1408]

Sword/sword?

[frareanselm.1925]

@Taril.8619 said:Sword/Sword are decent for Power.

Bearing in mind, that a significant portion of your damage will come from Shiro and Rene upkeep skills, which deal flat damage scaling off Power onto all your attacks (Same as Battle Scars) which is likely why Sword's auto attacks aren't hugely damaging, because they aren't the only thing that's dealing damage when you auto attack.

Which is also a reason why Hammer isn't so great, since it's all about slow singular hits, but Power Rev is balanced around proccing Shiro/Life Siphon effects repeatedly to bolster its damage output.

Also, it's why Shortbow is actually decent for Power too. With fast auto attacks and multihits on skills 2, 3 and 4 you can get some decent power scaled damage on there.

Decent isnt good enough. We need a incentive to play s/s reve over dual axe warrior or sword guardian. Anet should work on this because is the least played class.

[Taril.8619]

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@"Taril.8619" said:Sword/Sword are decent for Power.

Bearing in mind, that a significant portion of your damage will come from Shiro and Rene upkeep skills, which deal flat damage scaling off Power onto all your attacks (Same as Battle Scars) which is likely why Sword's auto attacks aren't hugely damaging, because they aren't the only thing that's dealing damage when you auto attack.

Which is also a reason why Hammer isn't so great, since it's all about slow singular hits, but Power Rev is balanced around proccing Shiro/Life Siphon effects repeatedly to bolster its damage output.

Also, it's why Shortbow is actually decent for Power too. With fast auto attacks and multihits on skills 2, 3 and 4 you can get some decent power scaled damage on there.

Decent isnt good enough.

Decent isn't good enough?

Looks at title of thread

"Power revenant needs a decent melee weapon!"

...

Okay?

[Turkeyspit.3965]

The only reason to have a secondary DPS weapon for a Rev would be to weapon swap, which is what other classes do when their weapon skills are on cooldown. Revenants won't be able to make use of this strategy because the cooldowns on Sword are already fairly low, and they don't have the energy resources and so resort to using auto-attacks. Like Staff Daredevil, the only reason you would want to swap out a weapon would be for utility. In competitive Herald swaps to x/Shield when on the defensive. In PvE a Rev swaps to staff for blocks, cleanses and CC. A Rev could swap to Hammer or Shortbow if a ranged option is needed.

Revenant doesn't need a second set of weapon skills as they already get a second set of utility skills when they swap legends.

I'm not saying they shouldn't get an alternative to Sword/Sword, but I don't think the absence of an alternative is holding them back.

[ASP.8093]

@"frareanselm.1925" said:Decent isnt good enough. We need a incentive to play s/s reve over dual axe warrior or sword guardian. Anet should work on this because is the least played class.

Rev is a paid-only class with very dense lore that doesn't let you pick your own utilities. Short of Anet taking away the mesmer's last dodge bar, it will always be "the least played class."

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

It’s not like power revenant is underperforming so greatly you can’t play it. Power Ren benches 34k sustain on golem, which is still better than power Reaper by 3k and close to on par with a few low end power specs.

Problem for Power Rev is that a lot of its damage is lifesteal so won’t show up properly on ArcDPS (so you look like you’re doing less damage than you are) and additionally lacks strong burst after an enemy falls below 80% (loses the 25% damage modifier). What it needs is not necessarily another weapon, but some way to build a burst rotation into its gameplay. Thief largely has the same issue due to their similar mechanics, since both rev and thief are more “sustain” power damage instead of burst, meaning they’re competing in some weird hybrid zone between true burst power dps and sustain condi dps. If it got another Legend with strong power damage skill options, plus maybe another strong profession skill for power damage (like citadel bombardment) then it could have more of a burst rotation. Glint could theoretically fill part of this gap if both Elemental Blast, Burst of Strength, and Chaotic Release were massively buffed and Kalla does fill some of this void as well with Icerazor and Citadel Bombardment.

Another issue is the powercreep across the board for most classes is pretty crazy. When many dps now can hit 37-40k With power builds there’s an issue. A 34k power rev would’ve been fine awhile ago, when only select classes at certain times (like elementalist) could reach those numbers. High dps like that was never as widespread as it is now. This is most likely due to the fact that significant PvE patches are low priority for Anet now that they’ve pretty much abandoned Raids.

[Virdo.1540]

@zaswer.5246 said:Remember that pve also includes raids and fractals, i dont know about fractals but in raid renegades are unbalanced , alacrene is too strong and power renegade is one of the lowest , also i dont know in other modes but herald in raids is nonexistant i mean renegade is beter in everything compared to herald for raids and its someting that could be solved (at least give quickness to herald or something and done)

renegades are in all gamemodes op due to the 10man alac & epic elite heal.Power renegade also extremely powerful in PvE, with over 34k dps ,Assassins Presence & Kalla Liferip.

ye... herald is Big crap. Outside of Player vs player or wvw ,its pretty bad. (And it only shines there because of the Glint-heal immunity)

[Kulvar.1239]

Revenant need a decent RANGE, hammer is barely usable outside niche situations.

[draxynnic.3719]

Sword is pretty decent in my experience. In fact, in my experience, revenants (both heralds and renegades) have some of the highest solo DPS, since they provide a lot of the means for boosting the DPS of themselves and others. They'd be pretty broken if they could provide all that party support and still match the DPS of the dedicated DPS builds (keeping in mind that the dedicated DPS builds are only getting such high numbers because they're receiving boons they can't provide themselves).

Sword is balanced somewhat around generating vulnerability stacks, but on the other hand, it has those vulnerability stacks in the first place - those 25 stacks of vulnerability have to come from somewhere, after all - and it's also a means of proccing Dance of Death.

Now, when it comes to ranged weapons, then we can talk. It's a testimony to how bad hammer is that power renegades use shortbow, but core revenants and heralds are stuck with it as their only ranged option.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@zaswer.5246 said:Remember that pve also includes raids and fractals, i dont know about fractals but in raid renegades are unbalanced , alacrene is too strong and power renegade is one of the lowest , also i dont know in other modes but herald in raids is nonexistant i mean renegade is beter in everything compared to herald for raids and its someting that could be solved (at least give quickness to herald or something and done)

renegades are in all gamemodes op due to the 10man alac & epic elite heal.Power renegade also extremely powerful in PvE, with over 34k dps ,Assassins Presence & Kalla Liferip.

ye... herald is Big kitten. Outside of Player vs player or wvw ,its pretty bad. (And it only shines there because of the Glint-heal immunity)

15k-30k damage on sword 3 alone in pve... but pve is /ignore_mode made for monkeys to do well, not ment to be a challange due its lame casualness.

[Kulvar.1239]

@draxynnic.3719 said:Sword is pretty decent in my experience. In fact, in my experience, revenants (both heralds and renegades) have some of the highest solo DPS, since they provide a lot of the means for boosting the DPS of themselves and others. They'd be pretty broken if they could provide all that party support and still match the DPS of the dedicated DPS builds (keeping in mind that the dedicated DPS builds are only getting such high numbers because they're receiving boons they can't provide themselves).

Sword is balanced somewhat around generating vulnerability stacks, but on the other hand, it has those vulnerability stacks in the first place - those 25 stacks of vulnerability have to come from somewhere, after all - and it's also a means of proccing Dance of Death.

Now, when it comes to ranged weapons, then we can talk. It's a testimony to how bad hammer is that power renegades use shortbow, but core revenants and heralds are stuck with it as their only ranged option.

The only way for Revenant to be performing better would be to self buff with Quickness, would be so cheat in other gamemode it won't happen.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Sword is pretty decent in my experience. In fact, in my experience, revenants (both heralds and renegades) have some of the highest solo DPS, since they provide a lot of the means for boosting the DPS of themselves and others. They'd be pretty broken if they could provide all that party support and still match the DPS of the dedicated DPS builds (keeping in mind that the dedicated DPS builds are only getting such high numbers because they're receiving boons they can't provide themselves).

Sword is balanced somewhat around generating vulnerability stacks, but on the other hand, it has those vulnerability stacks in the first place - those 25 stacks of vulnerability have to come from somewhere, after all - and it's also a means of proccing Dance of Death.

Now, when it comes to ranged weapons, then we can talk. It's a testimony to how bad hammer is that power renegades use shortbow, but core revenants and heralds are stuck with it as their only ranged option.

The only way for Revenant to be performing better would be to self buff with Quickness, would be so cheat in other gamemode it won't happen.

Strictly speaking, they can, but the tradeoffs aren't really worth it.