Sniff needs a buff: 20 second cooldown + works on stealthed players

[Doug.4930]

I mean the skill is pretty useless as it stands. May as well give a tool to track down thieves hiding in keeps/towers.

Because any decent thief player won't be caught inside a keep by less than 10 people actively hunting them. Even without my nomad thief build evading 3-4 scouts inside a keep is trivial on a full glass build. On the rare occasion I trip a stealth trap I just mount up on my crowd control immune speed tank until the marked ends.

I mean I'm not even sure why sniff doesn't work on stealth players already. But even if it did, a map dot every 60 seconds wouldn't make much of a difference to me If I didn't want to be found/fought, so 20 seconds I think would be reasonable.

[Qaju.2058]

And since it's a feline, can we also get a skill to jump up to any tower and keep walls? It's only reasonable as well.

[DemonSeed.3528]

That would essentially make the whole maps no man's land for thieves lol. Then you'd also get people just camping on mounts running around doing nothing but specifically trying to reveal stealthed opponents. It's already overkill with marked and reveal from sentries, watchtowers, skills, traits, traps n tricks. Funny thing is engi can even proc the reveal by dismounting or lancing with trait.I do find sniff useful as it is and if it received a cut in CD it shouldn't be more than 5-8s. I actually consider sniff one of the more useful and balanced skills on the warclaw and I use it a lot for engagements, positioning, and scouting out enemy positions. If it's going to do reveals then it might as well act as a gigantic radius "emp" that disables defenses from other classes like barriers/boons/blocks/etc just to level the playing field. Btw, many might not know this but sniff actually does make the ping sound when there is a stealthed opponent in it's vicinity, just not marked on map, at least from when I tested a while back (maybe changed now, haven't checked in a while). Usually I just chuck target painters, I know there are a few here that got really adept at the art of throwing target painters at thieves when they cross paths.

[Doug.4930]

@aleron.1438 said:And since it's a feline, can we also get a skill to jump up to any tower and keep walls? It's only reasonable as well.

I hate mounts as much as the next person, but seeing as its not Christmas and the chances of them being deleted is slim they may as well contribute something positive to the game.

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:That would essentially make the whole maps no man's land for thieves lol. Then you'd also get people just camping on mounts running around doing nothing but specifically trying to reveal stealthed opponents. It's already overkill with marked and reveal from sentries, watchtowers, skills, traits, traps n tricks. Funny thing is engi can even proc the reveal by dismounting or lancing with trait.I do find sniff useful as it is and if it received a cut in CD it shouldn't be more than 5-8s. I actually consider sniff one of the more useful and balanced skills on the warclaw and I use it a lot for engagements, positioning, and scouting out enemy positions. If it's going to do reveals then it might as well act as a gigantic radius "emp" that disables defenses from other classes like barriers/boons/blocks/etc just to level the playing field. Btw, many might not know this but sniff actually does make the ping sound when there is a stealthed opponent in it's vicinity, just not marked on map, at least from when I tested a while back (maybe changed now, haven't checked in a while). Usually I just chuck target painters, I know there are a few here that got really adept at the art of throwing target painters at thieves when they cross paths.

I think you misunderstood my post. I am not advocating for it to reveal thieves or apply marked. I am saying that the thief or any other player for that matter should appear as a dot on the map regardless if they are stealthed or not.

[aspirine.6852]

Without the use to sniff stealthed players what good is it for?

[Lahmia.2193]

@aspirine.6852 said:Without the use to sniff stealthed players what good is it for?

Typically, for seeing that stacked enemy zerg behind the wall, that is about to push out of portal onto your group.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"aspirine.6852" said:Without the use to sniff stealthed players what good is it for?

I usually use it to scout and get grisp how many enemies are in x objective and based on that decide if "it's worth to attack it" or to check where enemy is stacked. Kinda useful to a degree.I would rather fix a bug with sniff and jump at the same time(sniff goes on cd without activating properly).

[Galmac.4680]

I support the wish. To make all happy we could introduce a "paper box" to trap mounts, usable like siege blockers or supp traps.

[KrHome.1920]

With a cooldown reduction to 20s or even less, one player could basically perma-reveal the movement and the numbers of a whole zerg on the map. I don't care about zerging, but in all objectivity this is not balanced anymore.

The same goes for revealing. I don't like the game's stealth mechanic, but this would just be another poor attempt to weaken a badly designed mechanic and at the end of the day only discriminate thieves. And again: I don't care about thieves, but in all objectivity this is not balanced anymore.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Doug.4930 said:I think you misunderstood my post. I am not advocating for it to reveal thieves or apply marked. I am saying that the thief or any other player for that matter should appear as a dot on the map regardless if they are stealthed or not.I may have misunderstood you. But what I meant was that the ping would reveal on mini map, and not actually give the reveal debuff on enemy. I can see this working if it was implemented in a way such that there was a delay introduced as it polled to update the thieves position so as not to give a true pixel position, so maybe like a 1-1½s delay like an after image or alternatively, it could just put the dot in a small random 130 radius, enough to give position to aoe or cleave.

[Teratus.2859]

CD is fine really but yes marking stealthed players on the map is something a number of us have asked for.Should also be a different colour too so stealthed players are easily distinguished from non stealthed players marks.

If anything i'd rather have the marked duration increased rather than the CD decreased.

[aspirine.6852]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@aspirine.6852 said:Without the use to sniff stealthed players what good is it for?

Typically, for seeing that stacked enemy zerg behind the wall, that is about to push out of portal onto your group.

Weird, I can just see that on the screen, why use the sniff for that :D

[cryorion.9532]

Detect stealthed players yes, but leave cooldown on 60 seconds. All I need is to know if there is someone in the objective, so I can bother with traps/reveal skills.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

buff sniff and get rid of revealed from sentries and watchtowers.

[ArchonWing.9480]

There's way enough mount campers as it is, that it'd basically make stealth useless. And not just thieves use stealth.

I would just like it if sniff showed the enemy dots to all allies in the area. That would actually be useful.

[Virdo.1540]

oh yes please make them sniff invisible players.

Only because we cant see them doesnt mean they have sprayed deodorant everywhere too.

[steki.1478]

@aleron.1438 said:And since it's a feline, can we also get a skill to jump up to any tower and keep walls? It's only reasonable as well.

Since it's a feline there should be a skill that pushes siege or npc's off the walls.

[primatos.5413]

Buffing sniff is useless as long as thieves keep perma evading and restealth they will be gone again in seconds...building toxic mechanics and then bring more toxic bs to counter it is some sort of ..meeeeh...

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

TBH I could have sworn it works for stealthed players. I mean when someone goes stealth I see em on my map after a sniff.

[Sugar Min.5834]

@Doug.4930 said:

@aleron.1438 said:And since it's a feline, can we also get a skill to jump up to any tower and keep walls? It's only reasonable as well.

I hate mounts as much as the next person, but seeing as its not Christmas and the chances of them being deleted is slim they may as well contribute something positive to the game.

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:That would essentially make the whole maps no man's land for thieves lol. Then you'd also get people just camping on mounts running around doing nothing but specifically trying to reveal stealthed opponents. It's already overkill with marked and reveal from sentries, watchtowers, skills, traits, traps n tricks. Funny thing is engi can even proc the reveal by dismounting or lancing with trait.I do find sniff useful as it is and if it received a cut in CD it shouldn't be more than 5-8s. I actually consider sniff one of the more useful and balanced skills on the warclaw and I use it a lot for engagements, positioning, and scouting out enemy positions. If it's going to do reveals then it might as well act as a gigantic radius "emp" that disables defenses from other classes like barriers/boons/blocks/etc just to level the playing field. Btw, many might not know this but sniff actually does make the ping sound when there is a stealthed opponent in it's vicinity, just not marked on map, at least from when I tested a while back (maybe changed now, haven't checked in a while). Usually I just chuck target painters, I know there are a few here that got really adept at the art of throwing target painters at thieves when they cross paths.

I think you misunderstood my post. I am not advocating for it to reveal thieves or apply marked. I am saying that the thief or any other player for that matter should appear as a dot on the map regardless if they are stealthed or not.

Then what is the point of having stealth skill in WvW? Might as well remove them from WvW, or is this what you want in the first place?

DemonSeed has given some of the best reasons why it will be an overkill when we already have MARKED AND REVEALED within a huge range from sentries, watchtowers, skills and traits, traps, paints and tricks and more. WvW is not only about catching thieves and mesmers :D

[Doug.4930]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Doug.4930 said:I think you misunderstood my post. I am not advocating for it to reveal thieves or apply marked. I am saying that the thief or any other player for that matter should appear as a dot on the map regardless if they are stealthed or not.I may have misunderstood you. But what I meant was that the ping would reveal on mini map, and not actually give the reveal debuff on enemy. I can see this working if it was implemented in a way such that there was a delay introduced as it polled to update the thieves position so as not to give a true pixel position, so maybe like a 1-1½s delay like an after image or alternatively, it could just put the dot in a small random 130 radius, enough to give position to aoe or cleave.

Would this really be practical in the field? The ping doesn't follow the thief, it would simply have a dot on the map at the thieves position at the moment sniff was pressed. In my experience maining DE, the chances of a mounted player sniffing while I'm already engaged in a fight and then the enemy being able to look down at their mini map and use that information to land hits on me would be very slim. Even if it were the case, It would be easier if players stayed on their mounts sniffing me instead of leaping off and ganking. A 2v1 with my position being shown on the mini map once every 20 seconds is a far easier fight to win than a 3v1. Besides, most classes have access to actual reveals these days, so sitting on the mount sniffing me every 20 seconds to help their teammates would in 90% of cases be less effective than dismounting and revealing.

@Mil.3562 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@aleron.1438 said:And since it's a feline, can we also get a skill to jump up to any tower and keep walls? It's only reasonable as well.

I hate mounts as much as the next person, but seeing as its not Christmas and the chances of them being deleted is slim they may as well contribute something positive to the game.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:That would essentially make the whole maps no man's land for thieves lol. Then you'd also get people just camping on mounts running around doing nothing but specifically trying to reveal stealthed opponents. It's already overkill with marked and reveal from sentries, watchtowers, skills, traits, traps n tricks. Funny thing is engi can even proc the reveal by dismounting or lancing with trait.I do find sniff useful as it is and if it received a cut in CD it shouldn't be more than 5-8s. I actually consider sniff one of the more useful and balanced skills on the warclaw and I use it a lot for engagements, positioning, and scouting out enemy positions. If it's going to do reveals then it might as well act as a gigantic radius "emp" that disables defenses from other classes like barriers/boons/blocks/etc just to level the playing field. Btw, many might not know this but sniff actually does make the ping sound when there is a stealthed opponent in it's vicinity, just not marked on map, at least from when I tested a while back (maybe changed now, haven't checked in a while). Usually I just chuck target painters, I know there are a few here that got really adept at the art of throwing target painters at thieves when they cross paths.

I think you misunderstood my post. I am not advocating for it to reveal thieves or apply marked. I am saying that the thief or any other player for that matter should appear as a dot on the map regardless if they are stealthed or not.

Then what is the point of having stealth skill in WvW? Might as well remove them from WvW, or is this what you want in the first place?

DemonSeed has given some of the best reasons why it will be an overkill when we already have

MARKED AND REVEALED within a huge range

from sentries, watchtowers, skills and traits, traps, paints and tricks and more. WvW is not only about catching thieves and mesmers :D

Look you can read my post history. The only class I really play after coming back to this game is thief. I'm not on a crusade to #deletestealth. Personally I think marked is insane, and really should be toned down. 2 seconds is not stealthing for a long time. Tbh marked should allow 4-6 seconds of stealth but have a 10 second reveal which DE's can't remove, like a super reveal, to allow short bursts of stealth but punish perma stealth. But that's another topic.

The fact is that thieves hiding inside keeps is just a bit too easy, and I should know because I've done it numerous times. My solution would provide a solution that would allow players to track down permastealth thieves without actually damaging the classes ability to fight in the field.

[Shiyo.3578]

A better solution is to nerf stealth uptime in WvW by AT LEAST 50%.

[Vornollo.5182]

I'm still of a mind that Mounts shouldn't serve any purpose but Horizontal mobility.As soon as you get in Player Combat, get dismounted.Get rid of the damage on it and get rid of the instant-stomp.At the very, very, very least, make them vulnerable to CC effects.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

No.

Sniff is already a wall hack, you don't need to be able to spam it. Yes, high stealth, high evade etc etc thief builds are a problem, but that doesn't mean something else needs to be power creeped, that means these thief builds need to be looked at.

As to those who don't think Sniff is useful, it's used for going into a keep or tower that is contested and Sniffing and seeing where the attackers are without even trying, this makes havoc even harder, which was just about killed with tactics and passives. It's also used by attackers to see if a zerg or scout is inside, it can also be used in zerg battles, like DBL or SMC where there is lots of room and hiding spots to see if a zerg is stacked behind a wall waiting to veil push or portal bomb. I mean "radar" hacking used to be complained about often, then anet went and added it into the game....Now we are wanting it buffed? GG man.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

The best way to buff Sniff is to teach your average rando how to use it. That a large percentage of your pug zerg just stands afk outside of a keep, rather than mounted and using sniff, is ample evidence of the lack of knowledge on how to use this ability and its potential.