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@Cyric.7813 said:i have been regretting for 2 years for pick ranger as main

Just 2 years? It's been my main since the I began 6 months after release... It's been mostly down hill and I've taken the last 1.5+ years off of doing anything other than logging in for dailies and occasional world boss runs because Im just tired of my favorite class getting the raw end of the stick.

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@mistsim.2748 said:

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change.The only place it gets used is underperforming condi builds in PvP for the healing from Predator's Cunning.The poison damage isn't as important as extra healing, and it's a 1/3rd reduction (6 applications vs 9) in that for... no real reason?Probably minor, all things considered, but why do it?

Wonder if it makes it closer to Flame Trap in PvE or something.

The Poison Master Soulbeast is the best duelist in the game, but very few play it. Myself and a few others did. There were rangers in top 30 with this (I believe the guy who came up with the build), and I was in Plat 2. I'm sure there were others.

I believe some of the top level players didn't like getting smoked by this on the side node, and simply whined to CMC during their little secret meetings. At least, they whined enough to put it on ANet's radar.

I can't imagine any other reason for this nerf. The nerf itself is significant, because the trap added a nice level of condi burst and sustain to the build. I know they gave it duration, but people slot a ton of cleanses in good high level builds, so condi duration rarely matters in spvp. As far as I'm concerned, it's a dps loss.

I don't think the build is dead, but it was heavily reliant on Viper's Nest. We may see some of these rangers slotting flame trap instead, for 10k unblockable damage. Maybe sword/torch instead of d/d. We'll see.

It's really too bad, because it was a nice little niche build that was strong without being broken.

Yes man almost made legendary (solo que only) last year with d/d sb condi soulbeast. I see later many ppl start using that build but what you said actually can be truth because many famous players/streamers didn t knew how this build works and i had that in advantage. I will tell you excatly what happened. After i almost got legy when i was fine dueling anything in game (except malyx rev) i got some weird match making with ppl afk/dc like they trying to throw and bring no effort to win. Meta after the mat shifted so most ppl was playing condi thief while others start to play condi rev with malyx. So i stoped to play later since such toxic design was abused by 80% ranked and my build which was fine and balanced compared to condi thief since you need to land many skills to do that kind of spike was uselles because no boonreap and c rev was there every match.After i saw this balance patch im sure what you saying is true that anet push those designs to keep those streamers in the game. I still can t believe condi rev is untouched in terms of almost perma resistance uptime. Imagine build which is immune to power dmg like condi rev is immune to condi dmg... Some ppl cry nerf condis cus of this design and what they do is they nerf viper nest instead condi rev resistance uptime and defense overall.

One thing more about druid. This patch is lazy attempt to buff druid after all those nerfs it got. Some already strong proffesions geting reworked each patch instead of being nerfed and they give this lazy aproach to druid after all years of wait. I think we should stay critic about druid treatment from arenanet. I found intersting condi druid build which along with my old d/d condi soulbeast got me up to rank 37 so i find it viable at moment and this small buff could help me replace druidic clarity. As you said buffing lesser seed of life would be good start for glyphs but inside CA they should be ranged aoe ground target to make them actually heal instead playing suicidal. If you want to try druid build i can send you the link with gameplay and build because its actually strong vs most mathups right now. I think i will make whole thread in ranger forum and not in pvp section anymore because it would maybe get targeted like d/d which is fine and balanced build. D/d condi soulbeast will still be fine with viper nest 2 stacks per pulse and increased duration could work good with dagger cus of many cover condis in build already but it is definitly not needed change from anet because this build is not instant condi burst from stealth using instant abilities which was design of condi thief. I think anet doesn t want fun and balanced condition builds : mirage before nerf, core necro, scourge before nerf, condi daredevil before nerf and now core condi thief, burn guards with 10 stacks of burn in 1-2 sec apllication are proof that each condi build existed in gw2 meta was low effort and high reward while very unfun to play against. Problem with condis are the builds which often end up like those i mentioned since anet can t make balanced and fun and active condi build. Making d/d was best thing for me with best time ingame ever but the game again ended up pushing builds like instant condi spike thief and almost perma resistance condi rev being new meta. It hurts reading ppl which say condis are problem and not particular builds like condi rev, thats another level ingorance same as condi thief is fine you just need swap whole build for clears and shift meta for condi rev or don t use skills after he put 6condis instant from stealth. Arenanet just can t make healthy condi build and when you manage to do it they don t recognize it and isntead encourage you get no needed changes while condi rev stays immune to condis still. Very good balance indeed i hope streamers like this patch.

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Copy paste from the profession section

  • Protect me : Great ! Finally we know what it is. Took so long I saw it as a feature X). A somewhat small buff to sicem after being bashed for so many patches.
  • Nerfs to slb XD. Those number reductions should be fine. It finally has a build doing better than what a ‘support’ banner warrior can do. But I am not sure I get it since it was behind a lot of builds for so many years without getting a buff.
  • Druid : I like the glyph and grace of the land changes in PvP but druid is not a problem of numbers. Actually it is for a lot of things but not this way. The spells and conditions (ca full and other stuff) you need to make druid work make are too slow for being a good support. Increasing the spells values are a good first step but not exactly what it needs to be a support and could become more frustrating in lower levels. Seed of life is a perfect example. You put it, hope for an ally to go in, and take huge damage / risks compared to other profession really quick dispells.
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@CroTiger.7819 said:

@Shagie.7612 said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change... If you want to try druid build i can send you the link with gameplay and build because its actually strong vs most mathups right now.

Yeah pass me your druid build bro. I've been trying out a few different ones. I've run mostly Mender's so far, with Ancient Seeds. It's ok, nothing crazy.

Really wish I could run a hybrid support/condi with Sage amulet, but the healing coefficients are so abysmal that there's virtually no reason to ever stay in CA form. Need 1k healing power at least, and even then it's weaksauce.

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@mistsim.2748 said:

@"Shagie.7612" said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change... If you want to try druid build i can send you the link with gameplay and build because its actually strong vs most mathups right now.

Yeah pass me your druid build bro. I've been trying out a few different ones. I've run mostly Mender's so far, with Ancient Seeds. It's ok, nothing crazy.

Really wish I could run a hybrid support/condi with Sage amulet, but the healing coefficients are so abysmal that there's virtually no reason to ever stay in CA form. Need 1k healing power at least, and even then it's weaksauce.

You can try something like this -http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEY6MssCmH7jFyOxy3ZtVWiHTD-zZhMEEHA

Tips to druid support to overcome CA coefficients.

Support in PVP via regen as they can't nerf regen as a way to nerf druid. With lingering light+ Dwayna rune, your healing ticks on allies(pet included) are insanely high(over 500 per tick), outperforming most of your heals. Build offers 100% regen uptime on group

Blast finishers is the same idea, quick draw + staff 3, giving you blasts back to back of used on an ally(pet included).

Could be played with Sage amulet as well. the second weapon bar/utilities could be adjusted for preferences. May be a bit squishy, but doing damage and support comes with a trade-off. You have good movement and stealth access(this is not a bunker setup).

Used to play a bunker mender version of this setup with NM over WS, GS over condi weapon setup. Was very tanky and supportive but very little offence.

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@LughLongArm.5460 said:

@"Shagie.7612" said:I don't understand the Viper's Nest change... If you want to try druid build i can send you the link with gameplay and build because its actually strong vs most mathups right now.

Yeah pass me your druid build bro. I've been trying out a few different ones. I've run mostly Mender's so far, with Ancient Seeds. It's ok, nothing crazy.

Really wish I could run a hybrid support/condi with Sage amulet, but the healing coefficients are so abysmal that there's virtually no reason to ever stay in CA form. Need 1k healing power at least, and even then it's weaksauce.

You can try something like this -

Tips to druid support to overcome CA coefficients.

Support in PVP via regen as they can't nerf regen as a way to nerf druid. With lingering light+ Dwayna rune, your healing ticks on allies(pet included) are insanely high(over 500 per tick), outperforming most of your heals. Build offers 100% regen uptime on group

Blast finishers is the same idea, quick draw + staff 3, giving you blasts back to back of used on an ally(pet included).

Could be played with Sage amulet as well. the second weapon bar/utilities could be adjusted for preferences. May be a bit squishy, but doing damage and support comes with a trade-off. You have good movement and stealth access(this is not a bunker setup).

Used to play a bunker mender version of this setup with NM over WS, GS over condi weapon setup. Was very tanky and supportive but very little offence.

Yes I recently played the Mender version. I honestly found it pretty low impact, even for a bunker. Druid seems to be a fairly selfish support in general, ironically. I'll try your Regen version.

Healing others in a real fight is surprisingly difficult. My Soulbeast uses Spiritual Reprieve in a large aoe, and it's more impactful than anything Druid has to offer. 6.4k heal and 3s Resistance can instantly turn a fight around. Druids can't do that.

Applying condis on druid is too difficult, because staff and CA don't have any.

The only thing I keep coming back to is the immob spammer/trapper Druid, and the Mender bunker. These are pretty mediocre in higher levels of play.

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@"mistsim.2748" said:

Applying condis on druid is too difficult, because staff and CA don't have any.

Bro i hope this can change your mind atleast about that. Its sage amulet with mirage runes.It runes wilderness for well known reasons.Marksmanship is great for cover condis what it gives is criple and 5 stacks of vuln on each survival skill cus of fury proc. Smokescale field on swap is used for stealth and iboga pet pull (same like core power marks). Second trait gives your cc longer duration and buff for pet hits while iboga deals increased dmg for each different condition. The thing is marksmanship is best cover condi traitline and it extends your lunar impact, shortbow 5 and glyph of equality daze/stun durations. So you can burst ppl with shortbow 2 and cast 2 instant skills just bit before (sharpened edges and glyph of equality to proc ancient seeds) and your target is full of condis in half of a sec. Bleed is on top and ancient seeds proc last 5 stacks while sb 2 proc first 5. I hope you get idea. This build is bursty and need good awarness to stay alive. After the patch i gonna kick druidic clarity for heal trait and equip glyph heal+glyph of stars for elite and ofc trait glyphs. Lets hope lasser seed of life gets buffed aswell as you said that would actually change more things around than those they mentioned. I think after patch i will be able to have burst heal option aswell. Glyph+cultivated synergy and proc of seed of life could be strong with druid runes because both are affected by druid runes. Glyph of stars get bonus from druid rune on start so its also fine pulsing heal and can change loss of druidic clarity.

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@CroTiger.7819 said:

@"mistsim.2748" said:

Applying condis on druid is too difficult, because staff and CA don't have any.

Bro i hope this can change your mind atleast about that. Its sage amulet with mirage runes.It runes wilderness for well known reasons.Marksmanship is great for cover condis what it gives is criple and 5 stacks of vuln on each survival skill cus of fury proc. Smokescale field on swap is used for stealth and iboga pet pull (same like core power marks). Second trait gives your cc longer duration and buff for pet hits while iboga deals increased dmg for each different condition. The thing is marksmanship is best cover condi traitline and it extends your lunar impact, shortbow 5 and glyph of equality daze/stun durations. So you can burst ppl with shortbow 2 and cast 2 instant skills just bit before (sharpened edges and glyph of equality to proc ancient seeds) and your target is full of condis in half of a sec. Bleed is on top and ancient seeds proc last 5 stacks while sb 2 proc first 5. I hope you get idea. This build is bursty and need good awarness to stay alive. After the patch i gonna kick druidic clarity for heal trait and equip glyph heal+glyph of stars for elite and ofc trait glyphs. Lets hope lasser seed of life gets buffed aswell as you said that would actually change more things around than those they mentioned. I think after patch i will be able to have burst heal option aswell. Glyph+cultivated synergy and proc of seed of life could be strong with druid runes because both are affected by druid runes. Glyph of stars get bonus from druid rune on start so its also fine pulsing heal and can change loss of druidic clarity.

Thx I'll check it out. Been looking for Sage builds.

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@CroTiger.7819 said:

Thx I'll check it out. Been looking for Sage builds.

Second video have build show and i experimented with glyph of stars instead entangle cus i actually hate to have 2 long imobs in one build.

How do you feel about the healing power from Sage? Given th garbage healing coefficients. I found it to be negligible, and perhaps even Carrion seemed better.

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@mistsim.2748 said:

How do you feel about the healing power from Sage? Given th garbage healing coefficients. I found it to be negligible, and perhaps even Carrion seemed better.

Sage is midlle ground for condi on druid. Carrion is vitality waster i think even rabid could be better choice. But you are right some skills heal so bad especially compared to build around so you actually first escape and than heal to resustain because healing is impossible when focused almost. I tested glyph with cultivated synergy druid runes and verdant etching traited and i can tell you it can heal yourself good on 19 sec recharge and even outside CA you bring 4k heal to allies. In CA you can use seed of life+lunar impact and rejuventing tides are comboed with pet swap for blast because its instant. Glyph of the stars with druid rune and having no druidic clarity seems like way to go. Healing is not that bad actually but its still so slow.This particular build i linked is not support oriented still it can pull out some support but your focus should be on landing cc-s (actually interupting) and condi bombing+snare.

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@thefantasticg.3984 said:

@Cyric.7813 said:i have been regretting for 2 years for pick ranger as main

Just 2 years? It's been my main since the I began 6 months after release... It's been mostly down hill and I've taken the last 1.5+ years off of doing anything other than logging in for dailies and
occasional
world boss runs because Im just tired of my favorite class getting the raw end of the stick.

well, prev 2y i enjoyed)

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They added more nerfs in the final version.

  • "Protect Me!": Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only. Reduced base barrier from 3,973 to 3,377 in PvP only.
  • Spiritual Reprieve: Reduced base heal from 4,235 to 3,600 in PvP only. Reduced healing coefficient from 1.74 to 1.25 in PvP only.

In my opinion :Protect me barrier nerf -> values are fine. Except they also added.Protect me cd increase-> too long for a stunbreak, too low values for a defense, I do not think I am going to take it often. Somewhat ok with resouding timbre if you face some condi build on slb. I do not see it being that great on core which struggles vs condi (condi clear might be better).Spiritual Reprieve heal nerf ->I find the values getting low for the cd but resistance is still there.

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@CroTiger.7819 said:

How do you feel about the healing power from Sage? Given th garbage healing coefficients. I found it to be negligible, and perhaps even Carrion seemed better.

Sage is midlle ground for condi on druid. Carrion is vitality waster i think even rabid could be better choice. But you are right some skills heal so bad especially compared to build around so you actually first escape and than heal to resustain because healing is impossible when focused almost. I tested glyph with cultivated synergy druid runes and verdant etching traited and i can tell you it can heal yourself good on 19 sec recharge and even outside CA you bring 4k heal to allies. In CA you can use seed of life+lunar impact and rejuventing tides are comboed with pet swap for blast because its instant. Glyph of the stars with druid rune and having no druidic clarity seems like way to go. Healing is not that bad actually but its still so slow.This particular build i linked is not support oriented still it can pull out some support but your focus should be on landing cc-s (actually interupting) and condi bombing+snare.

That's really good news. Looking forward to trying this with Glyphs.

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@"aymnad.9023" said:They added more nerfs in the final version.

  • "Protect Me!": Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only. Reduced base barrier from 3,973 to 3,377 in PvP only.
  • Spiritual Reprieve: Reduced base heal from 4,235 to 3,600 in PvP only. Reduced healing coefficient from 1.74 to 1.25 in PvP only.

In my opinion :Protect me barrier nerf -> values are fine. Except they also added.Protect me cd increase-> too long for a stunbreak, too low values for a defense, I do not think I am going to take it often. Somewhat ok with resouding timbre if you face some condi build on slb. I do not see it being that great on core which struggles vs condi (condi clear might be better).Spiritual Reprieve heal nerf ->I find the values getting low for the cd but resistance is still there.

I'm extremely upset about this change on Spiritual Reprieve. They very obviously had our Poison Master build in their crosshairs. Good time to abandon ship and see what the druid can do.

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@mistsim.2748 said:

@"aymnad.9023" said:They added more nerfs in the final version.
  • "Protect Me!": Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds in PvP only. Reduced base barrier from 3,973 to 3,377 in PvP only.
  • Spiritual Reprieve: Reduced base heal from 4,235 to 3,600 in PvP only. Reduced healing coefficient from 1.74 to 1.25 in PvP only.

In my opinion :Protect me barrier nerf -> values are fine. Except they also added.Protect me cd increase-> too long for a stunbreak, too low values for a defense, I do not think I am going to take it often. Somewhat ok with resouding timbre if you face some condi build on slb. I do not see it being that great on core which struggles vs condi (condi clear might be better).Spiritual Reprieve heal nerf ->I find the values getting low for the cd but resistance is still there.

I'm extremely upset about this change on Spiritual Reprieve. They very obviously had our Poison Master build in their crosshairs. Good time to abandon ship and see what the druid can do.If that would be the case they would have nerf the heal in Predator's cunning. This is to nerf the SBS sustain across the full spectrum i don't think they think your poison master build is that important. They just reduced 1 pulse from the trap. You should be safe for at least another 6 months.

@"Cyric.7813" said:i have been regretting for 2 years for pick ranger as main

Imagine those who've mained ranger since launch and quit but still look at the patch notes every few months. Depressing.

I just don't bother to login in the game anymore, just come around to check if anything changed for the ranger. Then i see it is the same trash with no reworks and come here to read the nerf threads. Mesmer is being reworked 3 times in the last 2 years, same for revenant. Thief, guardian the same.

Ranger is definitely with the most "vanilla feel" skills in game, while any other class is over bloated with effects in every single skill.

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@thefantasticg.3984 said:

@Cyric.7813 said:i have been regretting for 2 years for pick ranger as main

Just 2 years? It's been my main since the I began 6 months after release... It's been mostly down hill and I've taken the last 1.5+ years off of doing anything other than logging in for dailies and
occasional
world boss runs because Im just tired of my favorite class getting the raw end of the stick.

It's been my main since release day, right at the beginning they nerfed shortbow machine gun, then ranger got repeatedly nerfed until the point it was not competitive at all. It reached a situation where a certain dev had to announce a major balance patch for ranger that a lot of rangers would enjoy and see use in again.

The result: the Aquaman patch. A patch literally buffing ranger underwater which made it almost immortal down there.

I'm not hating on anet or anything just they seem so out of touch with their game right now and looking for direction from the headless donkeys in silver/gold of PvP.

These changes to druid were random, a slight buff, but very random and unwanted/unneeded changes. Soulbeast has also been getting repeated nerfing (not entirely unwarranted) but I'm not sure how that's going to play out long-term.

Truthfully I stopped really playing my ranger a couple weeks ago. I built a firebrand and it's great in PvE (it's literally a 100% upgrade over druid and makes it obsolete.. to be honest I don't know why groups run druid anymore after the shenanigans I've been able to pull off on FB) - WvW healbrand will take a few adjustments to my setup as it's not where I want it to be quite yet. I'm honestly turning into a PvE'r because of the full random changes PvP wise (mainly WvW here).

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One thing what I really don't like in general is that so many action skills, do so little. It's like why even push this, when it isn't gonna do much anyting. Druids has so many useless skills and so many healings what do so little.

Lets use Druid staff (5) as example. It has two parts, it creates small wall. If projectile goes thgough it, it will heal. Second if player goes through it, it will give boons. Duration is 5 second.

  1. How often in 5 second there is so dangerous projectile that you need it to heal you self. How you even predict that there will some projectile be coming to you or someone in so you could put the wall correct place for 5 second. That's usefulness is allmost so situational that it's impossible to happen.

  2. If you create wall that players would go trough, how much players gonna waste time in combat, if they try to go trough some wall somewhere. So getting boon, while gonna waste combat time at least half of it just for moving.

Now compare situation, that this skill would not be wall like, but circle dome. Where druid puts that dome over the players. That would mean players don't have to move anywhere to get the boon and any projectile from any direction would heal them for 5 second. That would be very usefull. It's not about idea what skills do, but how usefull they are in combat. Any push of buttom, what doesn't give succesfully positive benefit, is waste of time in combat.

So, how you balance something, when some of the skill are basicly broken by design it self.

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@Lumikki.1725 said:One thing what I really don't like in general is that so many action skills, do so little. It's like why even push this, when it isn't gonna do much anyting. Druids has so many useless skills and so many healings what do so little.

Lets use Druid staff (5) as example. It has two parts, it creates small wall. If projectile goes thgough it, it will heal. Second if player goes through it, it will give boons. Duration is 5 second.

  1. How often in 5 second there is so dangerous projectile that you need it to heal you self. How you even predict that there will some projectile be coming to you or someone in so you could put the wall correct place for 5 second. That's usefulness is allmost so situational that it's impossible to happen.

  2. If you create wall that players would go trough, how much players gonna waste time in combat, if they try to go trough some wall somewhere. So getting boon, while gonna waste combat time at least half of it just for moving.

Now compare situation, that this skill would not be wall like, but circle dome. Where druid puts that dome over the players. That would mean players don't have to move anywhere to get the boon and any projectile from any direction would heal them for 5 second. That would be very usefull. It's not about idea what skills do, but how usefull they are in combat. Any push of buttom, what doesn't give succesfully positive benefit, is waste of time in combat.

So, how you balance something, when some of the skill are basicly broken by design it self.

The wall is not the worst skill the staff has: Simply extend the wall duration to 10s and reduce the CD to 20. Change the boon to protection(3s) that can only be applied once by ally. And alehop a nice skill to cast anywhere.

Ancient seeds should be removed and the roots should be applied to enemies hit by Vine Surge from staff. And again, as easy as that we fixed 2 skills from the staff and get rid of one of the most unfun traits in the whole game.

And if they do this for every single skill and trait the druid has the class would be in much better state.

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