Elementalist : Class rework maybe?

[Supreme.3164]

Increasing the CD of a weapon skill to 60s CD and an utility reverted back to 75s CD, on average the class has the highest CD in the game on 80% of the utilities and with almost 2/4 ( all arcane skills+couple signets , 2 conjures and 1-2 glyph ) not seeing any use at all. Weapon skills like scepter have not seen improvements since launch and staff lies in a catatonic state, the CD of skills was never the issue but rather the extremely slow activation time and casting.

What even is the scope of this class at this point?

[Shiyo.3578]

I don't see why anyone would play this class. Anytime it has a build that's playable it gets nerfs to things unrelated to that build gutting non-bunker/support builds and build variety in general for ele.

Shock aura(when shared) and res signet were the problem. Res utils shouldn't even exist with how slow paced PvP is now(on average, mesmer 1 shots grenade barrage 1 shots condi thief burst etc still exist but aren't the average kill speed).

[LazySummer.2568]

Having cancer Scourge back is already enough to delete the class even without the nerfs.Time for this class to join the trash heap alongside warrior and mesmer as it's always meant to be

[Bladestrom.6425]

I only played Ele, with thousands of hours or so on it. Unfortunately the last set of balance changes have been the last straw for me, I subbed to another game 3 months ago to try it out, and i'm just about to sub for a year. I spend about £250 a year on my mmorp of choice, and that money is now going elsewhere.

Anet have no vision for Ele beyond damage rotation in a niche raid environment, more fool them.

[Khalisto.5780]

I think tempest is in a very good spot

LR will be very good again when this condi meta is gone

FA weaver still a viable roamer

Core ele needs buffs, but hard to do it without super buff the elites

Arcane traitline needs some rework, specially the mid traits where you have a shield on a 300 secs icd, some bad buffs when you cc and ress speed trait

[Khalisto.5780]

Just read the patch notes, sadly they still murdering core ele while trying to nerf elite specs

[Khalisto.5780]

Seriously thinking in rerolling to rev, guardian or holo, since those 3 classes only get slightly nerfed (when it happens)

[Jekkt.6045]

I think, all ele core trait lines need a rework. For now I'll describe what the fire trait line should look like in my opinion. If i'm in the mood, I'll do the other trait lines too. Percentile values will be written as X% because it's hard to pull balanced numbers out of my nose without testing. Traits with names are the ones we currently have and are good enough to keep. Also note, these are brainstorming ideas. The normal process in game design is, you brainstorm, you have meetings, you iterate and test. This was done in a way shorter time and with much less iterating than what's needed, and obviously without any testing.

Fire trait line should be your condition trait line, it should be about mostly burning and might. I don't think Fire should be as good in condi cleanse as it is right now. This takes value away from the water trait line and from elite specs. In my opinion, every class should have one trait line that deals with condition removal and some skills that remove conditions. Everything else should be dictated by the elite spec you pick, or don't pick. In the case of ele, tempest trait line should provide condi cleanse and water trait line should provide condi cleanse. If you need more condi cleanse than your skills provide on core or on weaver, you have to pick water. I left the trait Burning Fire in because even though it cleanses some conditions, it's not consistent and the applied burning from it is still damage. On the other hand, I removed Smothering Auras because it makes Fire too good at cleansing conditions. A trait like Smothering Auras belongs in Water. I know some people dislike being locked to water for cleanse, but it's a lot better for balance because you can clearly direct how much cleanse core and elite specs have access to.

Fire

Adept Traits:

• Adept Minor: burn deals X% more damage when you have might.

• Burning Precision: Burning has increased duration and crits have a chance to inflict burning.

• Adept 2: Replaced by master minor Sunspot. Gain a fire aura and damage nearby foes when you attune to fire.

• Burning Fire: Cast lesser Cleansing Fire when you have a number of conditions on you.

Master Traits:

• Master Minor: 5% increased might duration.

• Burning Rage: Sunspot inflicts burning and increases radius. +180 condition damage.

• Master 2: Fire auras are automatically transmuted when they expire and last 20% longer.

• Master 3: X% increased critical hit chance against burning foes.

Grand Master Traits:

• Grand Master Minor: Fire weapon skills reduced recharge 20%. Attuning to fire grants X might stacks for X seconds.

• Grand Master 1: Might Stacks over 25 that are replaced by new might count as losing a might stack. Every time you lose a might stack, increase the duration of your burns by 0.x seconds.

• Grand Master 2: Your other conditions deal X% increased damage when your target suffers from burning. Your first hit when attuning to an element other than fire applies 1 stack of burning for X seconds. Can be dodged.

• Grand Master 3: When your target suffers from X amount of burning stacks, apply weakness and X stacks of vulnerability for X seconds. Once every X stacks or with an internal cooldown.

[Widmo.3186]

They have no idea how ele works and what to do with it. Especially cmc. Id rather believe that he is a Nobel prize winner, than that he knows how to play ele.So yeah, deleting this class could be not bad idea, since any "reworks" just gonna be more and more embarassing.

[Khalisto.5780]

Inst this the 4th consecutive nerf to obsidian flesh?

[hotte in space.2158]

@Widmo.3186 said:They have no idea how ele works and what to do with it.^this@Shiyo.3578 said:Anytime it has a build that's playable it gets nerfs to things unrelated to that build gutting non-bunker/support builds and build variety in general for ele.Shock aura(when shared) and res signet were the problem.^this@Supreme.3164 said:What even is the scope of this class at this point?Core ele is dead for long time now.Weaver is still viable but who is happy to have a weaver in his team ?Tempest got pressured into one single role/build which has got the most boring playstyle of all classes ever :1) Sharing auras + healing in teamfights2) Insta rez with glyph3) Cant kill anybody, cant decap, cant hold nodeA pure support and runaway build that makes strong teams stronger but weak teams weaker.Its got the tools to escape but hasnt got much sustain and under pressure ele dies pretty fast. And now devs nerf sustain ? Clueless !

Ele has the most skills of all classes, its got the highest potential of all classes, its one of the hardest to play and now its the most primitive of all classes.Ele always was my favourite class but now I am close to be done with it.

Feels bad to have a PvP department without passion for PvP ! ! !

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I would love an ele rework...maybe something like haveing 2 attunments linked to eachother with the same weapon and two to another. For example, fire and air attunement will have scepter/dagger weapon set. While water and earth can have ataff equiped. The switching animation might look funky but i think it will be fun to have those two options available for combat.

[Supreme.3164]

The major issue here is that we genuinely have no idea what this class supposed to be , there is a complete lack of identity, a design mess that leave little to imagination:

1) Am I supposed to be a side noder?2) Maybe a support class?3) A bit of everything but great at nothing?

The ele playerbase has tried time and time again to identity itself with any of the 3 points above and everytime something viable starts to emerge...it get shot down back to square 1.

[Shiyo.3578]

Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

[Supreme.3164]

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

The nerfing is not the real problem, nerfs/buffs are part of every MMO...the real issue is that ele stops being a viable pick after a number of consistent nerfs, that means the issue lies at design level .

[Jekkt.6045]

ele builds have always been just nerfed to the ground. s/d valk ele, d/d celestial ele, burn weaver, fresh air, lightning rod and now it's tempests turn. happens when you nerf the survivability of a light armor class with the lowest hp pool in the game or their only damage output.

[Axl.8924]

core ele and tempest have been in the gutter as far as I can tell a long time no? i remember few times where they were really solid.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Axl.8924 said:core ele and tempest have been in the gutter as far as I can tell a long time no? i remember few times where they were really solid.

Core,maybe, tempest, no.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Axl.8924 said:core ele and tempest have been in the gutter as far as I can tell a long time no? i remember few times where they were really solid.

Core,maybe, tempest, no.

The only thing that works with tempest is a gimmicky setup using LR. A build that relies on a single cc based mechanic is not in a good place.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

[Supreme.3164]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:core ele and tempest have been in the gutter as far as I can tell a long time no? i remember few times where they were really solid.

Core,maybe, tempest, no.

It's not a question of what works or not in the meta, most people do no expect everything for a class to be meta ; what I need to know..what everybody need to know it's the direction of the class.

You need to balance sustain/defense based on the level of damage in the game, if you make so somebody can teleport at you from behind a wall at 1200 range and take out 50%+ of your health in an instant, you are left with few options....especially when using an elementalist in 2020.

Nothing makes sense right now....

-They want the class to be squishy......then force it at melee range combat with nothing but heal and boons as main sources of sustain-The sustain comes with some of the lowest base numbers forcing the ele to heavily invest in healing power to make use of one of the only source of sustain they have

They want the class to be squishy...but they add "on hit traits" and "on hit skills" like auras, shouldn't you be avoid dmg instead than openly embrace it?.....I am honestly lost...

[Supreme.3164]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....don't add them in the first place, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Not True, It took until Festival of the Four winds back in season 1 for Ele to become viable in Core days, Season 4 of PvP Ele wasn't viable, and 2 years after PoF for weaver to become somewhat viable.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....don't add them in the first place, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.

[Supreme.3164]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Yeah, that's the issue. If ele ever has a build that's top tier, it's immediately nerfed to the ground. Other classes do not have this happen to them, especially not consistently since VANILLA. D/D cele ele was understandable, but anything else makes NO SENSE.

I find it funny that you say that given that Ele was viable the entirety of HoT, most of core, and the second half of PoF. Not a lot of classes were that consistently played. In fact, I can only think of thief, which only wasnt played in HoT.

Which class was not played during HoT days?

At the highest level thief, surprisingly. Also Warrior and Guardian if I recall correctly, at different times.

People are not asking to be meta here, nobody really is interested in being meta..what people want is viability and purpose for each spec available. If you don't like support specs in your conquest game for whatever reason....

don't add them in the first place

, but you cannot add them and then keep applying such harsh nerfs the spec become unfun to even use

But right now Tempest is a viable support spec. More than that even, its arguably the best one, beating out even firebrand. Druid is the unviable support spec.

If you want your game to work like a shot'em up...just give a one shot build to each class and call it a day..do not add support specs and then nerf them to death the second they become relevant , do you see any other class with a 60s CD on a weapon skill?

Do you see any other class with outright invulnerability on a weapon skill? Those are usually utility skills with, indeed, 60 second cooldowns.

-If you talk about viability of a spec/class then you consider the entirety of the pvp scene and warrior had power/condi berserker - Guardian had/had Dragonhunter and thief had Daredevil-Tempest cannot share : stability or resistance or alacrity or share reduced dmg stance.....I don't see how it's the best support when there are scrapper-firebrand and even Herald doing their part in a different way-They nerfed core ele and not tempest? I don't see how a core ele with focus could be such a threat to anybody up to this point, if you want to nerf the support spec..nerf the actual support spec?