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Drizzlewood and WvW

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I've been thinking about this alot lately and I've become convinced that a Drizzlewood Coast-alike map (maybe even the same map, with some modifications), would be a good addition to WvW as a replacement for the 2nd Alpine Borderlands.

After playing it for the last month I realised that its basically everything ArenaNet tried to do with Desert Borderlands, without all the problems they brought with it that made it a failure.

Its a middleground between the old map design at release (like a strategic layout with simple, easy-to-defend objectives and a clear path of advancement), and what we got with DBL (intensive detail, complex terrain, etc.) without the frustrations of that map such as useless, out-of-the-way towers that provide no value beyond PPT, among other issues that make people avoid playing it unless they have to.

In many ways Drizzlewood is like Alpine Borderlands, reimagined and updated to the current state of the game. I mean, there's some differences, like the lack of Supply Camps, but alot of these could be worked in with very little changes to the overall design.

I'm curious about what others think about this, though.

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Drizzlewood is very clearly designed with verticality inclined mounts in mound. Navigating it without them would be incredibly frustrating. It also does not lend itself well to 3 teams.

I was going to complain about lacking keep structures as well, but honestly I think they could work around that with EotM-esque keeps that are large swaths of area with a small inner. But it would be a lot of work and might just be more worth it to make a new map as a whole.

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To me Drizzlewood Coast is a reintroduction of WvW concepts to PvE players. It has siege (rams, catapults, arrowcarts, ballistae) that you don't see on most any other map. It also has caravan escorting and defend the base type events as well.

In order for WvW to not be a k-train map, there needs to be people versed in defending and tiering objectives (escorting yaks and capping camps and sentries).

Drizzlewood Coast would not work as a WvW map however , since there would need to be keeps and ability to reach other objectives with siege (trebuchets). It also doesn't have shield generators in mind. Currently all the objectives are essentially glorified towers with barricades.

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Alpine borderland was designed to be played across 3 maps concurrently - as a defender, as a left side attacker and as a right side attacker. Desert Borderland screws this dynamic but if you can't populate all 3 borderlands then I guess it doesn't really matter anyway.

Replacing 2 of the 3 borderlands with a Desert/Drizzlewood style map would mean the defender in the Alpine Borderland will have an overwhelming advantage against the attackers but not a corresponding overwhelming disadvantage in the other 2. Alpine Borderland is (or was) designed for a defender to survive equal numbers 1v2. It is very hard for attackers to hold north towers against the defender because the spawn advantage is too great. The defender has incredible high ground advantage over both north towers and their adjacent supply camps. If you can't hold the north towers, that means you can't hold garrison either because both towers have safe trebs against it. Nowadays, people don't really use trebs to take and hold territory for a number of reasons, but long range siege determined the distance and elevation of all the structures in the borderland. The keeps and towers aren't where they are for no reason.

The difference between left and right side attack is:

1) on the left (bay) side, the keep is easy to capture and difficult to hold. It can be safe trebbed from south west tower and supply camp. Back in the day, it could also be safe trebbed from garrison cliffs. When fighting in or around the keep there is limited access to high ground.

2) on the right (hills) side, the keep is difficult to capture but easy to hold. There are no safe treb spots against it. It has a safe treb against south east tower so if you lose the keep, you will also lose south east tower. Hills used to be the hardest inner to take because of the choke point into lord room. This was back when arrow carts were insane and a superior ballista could 2 shot everyone that tried to run through the choke. Hills has high elevation with many opportunities to fight with high ground advantage.

The balance between the 3 borderlands has been complicated over time due to the addition of tactivators (noteably EWP and structural integrity), mounts and gliding by enabling short cuts that were are otherwise possible without taking fatal falling damage and reducing the travel time from waypoints. EWP allows any keep to be defended with an uncontestable waypoint that can be spammed for invuln. Then there is the introduction of full support builds, nerfs to siege damage etc. so bay isn't as hard to hold anymore and hills isn't as easy.

Nevertheless, the distance between structures and the terrain/elevation in Alpine Borderland is designed so it is played as 1v2 across 3 maps. EBG has always been different. Unlike Alpine Borderland, it was designed to be a 1v1v1 and that is still somewhat true, despite all the changes and additions to WvW since release.

Desert Borderland is weird because the placement and elevation of the towers do not create advantages to attack keeps. So it is disadvantageous if your Home BL is Desert - you have none of the terrain and spawn advantages that an alpine defender has over its own garrison and you have 2 alpine borderlands where you are the left and right side attacker, with inherent terrain and spawn disadvantages against the defenders.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:I dont see how its anywhere close to a WvW map, alpine or DBL. The hype was a complete lie.

you know it would also be a bit of a downgrade since Drizzlewood was made in 2020 and the other in... idk 2010? Wvw wiki couldn't tell me when it was launched. Power Orbs been removed (yeah, removing is all you get here) in 2012 yet, first season was in 2013, tournament till 2014

i mean just read the wiki and u see stuff u'd never have known as player starting 2,5 years ago.

and the only two special events the last several years been 2018, which wasn't too long (enhanced BL and no downed state) therefore i plainly missed. also BL is a bad mechanics anways and 'd need replacement. and most ppl won't prefer anyways.

2015 was the last cool event with Golem Rush / free siege golems

acutally the '19 event sounded interesting too but i didn't notice it either. events that last one week and happen like ~ once a year are just a bit of a joke.

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