Dragon Banner was nerfed...reportedly.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Seriously, some times I feel like the devs are purposefully trolling us. I honestly would love to hear their rationale behind the changes they didn't make.

[Jilora.9524]

They only addressed dmg instead of that plus target cap and the "you can carry it across the map" instead of say just in/5k range around the structure you got it from. I started grabbing them from objectives we were going to lose like if 40 attack and only 10-15 defending wait till gate down and get 6 7 kills on the back end and then kept it for 2 v 5s and it is just silly. It needed more nerfs not just the generic 25 percent basically

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Jilora.9524 said:It needed more nerfs not just the generic 25 percent basically

That's what irks me. Back in February and even since, we have seen ANET pull the pin and nuke stuff from orbit, but Dragon Banner, something that has been complained about consistently for YEARS...that they choose to treat with kid gloves on?

If DB was only in use by smaller groups against larger groups, fine, it would be an equalizer of sorts (cheap thought it is), but when you fight a 40 person squad running 3 DBs, you can't help but think this isn't the goal the devs should be aiming for.

[Jura.2170]

It shouldnt have been changed. There was nothing wrong with it

[Teratus.2859]

@Jura.2170 said:It shouldnt have been changed. There was nothing wrong with it

Beg to differ, I watched 6 brand new full HP Seige Golems get wiped from existence in about 5-7 seconds a few weeks ago thanks to a Dragon Banner.Never even did 25% damage to the wall they were attacking, utterly ridiculous.

[wasss.1208]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I honestly would love to hear their rationale behind the changes they didn't make.

Watch the wvw with devs streams, they have a lot of answers in them.https://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/video/668239789?filter=clips&range=30d

[misterman.1530]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Jura.2170 said:It shouldnt have been changed. There was nothing wrong with it

Beg to differ, I watched 6 brand new full HP Seige Golems get wiped from existence in about 5-7 seconds a few weeks ago thanks to a Dragon Banner.Never even did 25% damage to the wall they were attacking, utterly ridiculous.

So take down the person using the DB? I mean, they become easily targetable.

[XenesisII.1540]

Yeah the new pin sniping, go after the db guys hiding in 30 people, can't be hard trying to take out a tank warrior!

[lodjur.1284]

Personal problem regarding Dragon Banner is the that is has 5 different hard CC skills (that all still do damage for some reason...??). Also the ranged+breakbar making it quite hard to kill. If the CC skills lost their dmg and the 2 skill only had 1 use, it would be a lot less annoying

Also how extremely common they seem to be, we encounter them multiple times a day when running with 4-5 people only, even though we avoid zergs, the 10-20 sized groups of enemies we fight always seem to have them these days, felt different just 2 months ago.

[SWI.4127]

Yeah I really don't get why they didn't nerf the CC damage when every other CC in the game does little to no damage. Seems like they put very little thought behind the change. I'm glad they did finally do something though.

[Guest]

@"Teratus.2859" said:Beg to differ, I watched 6 brand new full HP Seige Golems get wiped from existence in about 5-7 seconds a few weeks ago thanks to a Dragon Banner.Never even did 25% damage to the wall they were attacking, utterly ridiculous.

This is just demonstrably false. I don't know what else was hitting those golems but a DB doesn't do that kind of damage. Like, at all. The anti-seige skill 3 does like... 2k damage? The "scary" floor-of-flames skill 5 is anti-personnel, it is meant to be used when pushing an enemy group with your group. Just dropping it on some enemy siege does jack all damage to it after all the previous damage nerfs. It's strong but not nearly as overpowering as it was at launch, which is what people still seem to remember.

And it is a greater advantage to the defense still. People somehow don't consider how combat works out situationally when they think about this. Yeah, if the enemy has 3 DBs in a blob that is useful for them in some ways. But DB is FAR more effective when used on a clustered group of enemies - i.e. an attacking zerg. If you're clouding them a ton of the DB utility is lost - you can easily sidestep the skills, they have HUGE tells. So they drop dragon's breath on a down or a couple of players. That's not nearly as good as being able to use it to CC the tail or squirrels to break them away from the zerg, or to push a tightly stacked group.

[RisenHowl.2419]

meter's on the right so you can see what the problem skills were before the nerf (it's the two that didn't get nerfed!). Berserker's herald should get 20-30% more damage out of it than I do on spellbreaker too.

[Teratus.2859]

@"Kunzaito.8169" said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:Beg to differ, I watched 6 brand new full HP Seige Golems get wiped from existence in about 5-7 seconds a few weeks ago thanks to a Dragon Banner.Never even did 25% damage to the wall they were attacking, utterly ridiculous.

This is just demonstrably false. I don't know what else was hitting those golems but a DB doesn't do that kind of damage. Like, at all. The anti-seige skill 3 does like... 2k damage? The "scary" floor-of-flames skill 5 is anti-personnel, it is meant to be used when pushing an enemy group with your group. Just dropping it on some enemy siege does jack all damage to it after all the previous damage nerfs. It's strong but not nearly as overpowering as it was at launch, which is what people still seem to remember.

And it is a greater advantage to the defense still. People somehow don't consider how combat works out situationally when they think about this. Yeah, if the enemy has 3 DBs in a blob that is useful for them in some ways. But DB is FAR more effective when used on a clustered group of enemies - i.e. an attacking zerg. If you're clouding them a ton of the DB utility is lost - you can easily sidestep the skills, they have HUGE tells. So they drop dragon's breath on a down or a couple of players. That's not nearly as good as being able to use it to CC the tail or squirrels to break them away from the zerg, or to push a tightly stacked group.

It's what the Com said.There were only about 10-20 people on the defense, when the golems got obliterated there was a wave of WTF!! comments in the chat from pretty much everyone there.Was the Com that said Dragon Banner was to blame so i'm just repeating that.

What I can tell you for a fact though is that we built those Golems, they were at full health at the start of the attack and they were obliterated in seconds.. all of them.I was there and I saw it with my own eyes.

I've defended keeps with similarly small groups as well and we've never taken down Golems that quickly, even with seige pelting them.I've never seen golems get utterly wasted like that in WvW before, even against massive zergs.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@"Jilora.9524" said:They only addressed dmg instead of that plus target cap and the "you can carry it across the map" instead of say just in/5k range around the structure you got it from. I started grabbing them from objectives we were going to lose like if 40 attack and only 10-15 defending wait till gate down and get 6 7 kills on the back end and then kept it for 2 v 5s and it is just silly. It needed more nerfs not just the generic 25 percent basically

yeah, this is what have suggested too.

just make it locked to the region (i mean the map is split in sectors anyways, why just do Anet refuse to use this? how uncreative are these people?) and BOOM. defensive thing only. that'd be a heavy nerf even.

beside, did u notice how no new tactics since aeons, centaur and turtle banner still got no buffs, the defensive towers are still useless and nobody would ever set them. "we only nerfs, idk what fixing means" - Anet devs probably.