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[Design concept]: Core ele F5 - "Elemental Armor"


Supreme.3164

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A neat concept idea specifically for core ele , a new F5 mechanic : Elemental Armor. Let me know what you think and how you would improve the concept , in the end we need something to make core ele more appealing to play, something that cannot be transferred to elite specs and something that won't make ele that much harder to kill, with all that said let's go :

Elemental Armor - "harvest arcane magic as you rotate between attunements , collect enough arcane magic and gain access to devastating effect"

-Elemental Armor is a charging mechanic on 20s CD with instant activation emphasis on instant, last 5s before the meter goes back to 0-You charge 5% for attunement swap-Once the meter icon is full , a visible purple bubble engulf the ele that will last till expenditure of the meter-The Armor is activated by using F5 and the ele player will gain effects based on the current attunement for different results :

1) Fire - increase ongoing damage by 5% for 10s2) Water - clear 6 condis3) Air - next enemy attacking you suffers pulsing blind for 6s4) Earth - reduce condition damage by 10% for 5s

What do you guys think?

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To be honest if you're going with an F5 I'd rather it be Arcane attunement or this original concept added to the arcane spec since you're most likely going to be using that as Core.

Regarding the skills themselves, I don't see their affects making such a big difference. 19 attunement changes to F5 is pretty damn long so whatever buffs you give need to last maybe {attunement swap cooldown x 4} seconds duration (defined duration).

FIRE: 10% damage buff for (defined duration)WATER: convert all conditions to boons with (defined duration)AIR: pulsing blind isn't a bad idea but we already have a fair amount of access to blind, perhaps Alacrity or Quickness for (defined duration / 2)EARTH: Resistance for (defined duration / 2)

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@MarzAttakz.9608 said:To be honest if you're going with an F5 I'd rather it be Arcane attunement or this original concept added to the arcane spec since you're most likely going to be using that as Core.

Regarding the skills themselves, I don't see their affects making such a big difference. 19 attunement changes to F5 is pretty kitten long so whatever buffs you give need to last maybe {attunement swap cooldown x 4} seconds duration (defined duration).

FIRE: 10% damage buff for (defined duration)WATER: convert all conditions to boons with (defined duration)AIR: pulsing blind isn't a bad idea but we already have a fair amount of access to blind, perhaps Alacrity or Quickness for (defined duration / 2)EARTH: Resistance for (defined duration / 2)

Your versions for water and earth are not really optimal, since they both kinda fill the same niche: dealing with conditions.With the point that most of the time water will be superior. Not only don't you suffer from the conditions anymore (as with the resistance from earth), but you can also gain the resistance from the condition conversion if you have immobilized on you.

If you are giving fire a damage buff, then I think the better buff to give to earth would be a damage reduction for yourself.

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Earth should be a power damage reduction. Though I'm hesitant to suggest any type of boon because it can be corrupted or removed, and that serves Ele no useful purpose. This F5 sounds very similar to Weaver Elite, and that completely okay. The 20% damage reduction on Earth could also apply to Core Ele F5 idea. Or 15%; whatever would be balanced.

Rather than building arcane energy based off percentage. I would base if off time. Meaning, the CD of the F5 skill is 20 sec, so the actual ability only lasts 10 sec. Given that these buffs are pretty strong. I would rather put it on a 30sec CD with 15 sec timer.

All in all, Interesting Concept. Something I would love to play as a core Ele.

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I think ele has too many modifiers which either makes it too strong as a dps in pve or too irrelevant as support everywhere else.

Ele needs BOONS, especially something that's not aoe by default because they tend to last only 3-5 seconds.

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@steki.1478 said:I think ele has too many modifiers which either makes it too strong as a dps in pve or too irrelevant as support everywhere else.

Ele needs BOONS, especially something that's not aoe by default because they tend to last only 3-5 seconds.

Boons can be stripped, stolen or worst..corrupted. I prefer unstrippable mechanic like a flat dmg reduction and similar

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@"Stallic.2397" said:Earth should be a power damage reduction. Though I'm hesitant to suggest any type of boon because it can be corrupted or removed, and that serves Ele no useful purpose. This F5 sounds very similar to Weaver Elite, and that completely okay. The 20% damage reduction on Earth could also apply to Core Ele F5 idea. Or 15%; whatever would be balanced.

Rather than building arcane energy based off percentage. I would base if off time. Meaning, the CD of the F5 skill is 20 sec, so the actual ability only lasts 10 sec. Given that these buffs are pretty strong. I would rather put it on a 30sec CD with 15 sec timer.

All in all, Interesting Concept. Something I would love to play as a core Ele.

Direct dmg reduction is a bad idea because it may lead to some "cancerous" gameplay especially in wvw, it was my original idea but then I've realized it : imagine some 3k armor/1k healing bunker with perma protection...having access to an additional dmg reduction tool...yeah not fun at all.

Going off by time could be a better solution I agree, it could lead to a more fluid tactical gameplay

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@MarzAttakz.9608 said:To be honest if you're going with an F5 I'd rather it be Arcane attunement or this original concept added to the arcane spec since you're most likely going to be using that as Core.

Regarding the skills themselves, I don't see their affects making such a big difference. 19 attunement changes to F5 is pretty kitten long so whatever buffs you give need to last maybe {attunement swap cooldown x 4} seconds duration (defined duration).

FIRE: 10% damage buff for (defined duration)WATER: convert all conditions to boons with (defined duration)AIR: pulsing blind isn't a bad idea but we already have a fair amount of access to blind, perhaps Alacrity or Quickness for (defined duration / 2)EARTH: Resistance for (defined duration / 2)

-The percentage idea would need balancing ofc, maybe you could increase the amount to 10% per attunement swap

-I am really against any form of boons, fighting a necro or thief is never fun when you go around with a dozen boons on you. The pulsing blind would give core eles a well needed defensive tool ( weaver have sword evades and tempest have stunbreaks on overloads plus more sustain)

-Water: all conditions converted..I think may be too strong

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@Supreme.3164 said:

@steki.1478 said:I think ele has too many modifiers which either makes it too strong as a dps in pve or too irrelevant as support everywhere else.

Ele needs
BOONS
, especially something that's not aoe by default because they tend to last only 3-5 seconds.

Boons can be stripped, stolen or worst..corrupted. I prefer unstrippable mechanic like a flat dmg reduction and similar

That's only relevant in pvp though, and even there, half of the classes cant do anything to your boons and the ones who can, do it in bursts or in small amounts.

The mentioned buffs are also something that ele already has in good amounts and dont contribute to anything.

Damage buff means that other stuff has to be nerfed because it will be too strong in pve group content. Blinds are irrelevant on mobs with breakbar and point-and-click blind spam is just never gonna happen in pvp modes. Cleanses is the last thing that ele needs, there's plenty of cleanses already. Condi damage taken is irrelevant when you can cleanse it (and as ele you definitely can).

Ele's too reliant on allies to keep those buffs for a long time (defense/sustain while doing damage, alacrity to get cooldowns back, quickness to deal with long cast times on many skills). If you want a non-boon effect, at least make it related to cooldown reduction, attack speed, lingering trait effects, improved auras etc. No point of making ele even more reliant on group when it's already pretty good there. It needs more buffs for solo content so it can utilize its traits better.

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@steki.1478 said:

@steki.1478 said:I think ele has too many modifiers which either makes it too strong as a dps in pve or too irrelevant as support everywhere else.

Ele needs
BOONS
, especially something that's not aoe by default because they tend to last only 3-5 seconds.

Boons can be stripped, stolen or worst..corrupted. I prefer unstrippable mechanic like a flat dmg reduction and similar

That's only relevant in pvp though, and even there, half of the classes cant do anything to your boons and the ones who can, do it in bursts or in small amounts.

The mentioned buffs are also something that ele already has in good amounts and dont contribute to anything.

Damage buff means that other stuff has to be nerfed because it will be too strong in pve group content. Blinds are irrelevant on mobs with breakbar and point-and-click blind spam is just never gonna happen in pvp modes. Cleanses is the last thing that ele needs, there's plenty of cleanses already. Condi damage taken is irrelevant when you can cleanse it (and as ele you definitely can).

Ele's too reliant on allies to keep those buffs for a long time (defense/sustain while doing damage, alacrity to get cooldowns back, quickness to deal with long cast times on many skills). If you want a non-boon effect, at least make it related to cooldown reduction, attack speed, lingering trait effects, improved auras etc. No point of making ele even more reliant on group when it's already pretty good there. It needs more buffs for solo content so it can utilize its traits better.

Would have to disagree. Core Ele is one of those specs that shines best when it's full glass cannon. And I honestly think that's the design of core. The two elites boost sustain in sacrifice for damage.

A lot of arcane traits mixed in with auras/signets/boons helps it compete with elite specs of any class.

In a pvp setting, the thing that really shuts it down is survivability. You have to stack barrier, conjures, cleanses, etc to even have the chance to survive. If there was an F5 that boosted that, without any corruption, then there would be no need to worry about damage or boons. Ele can do just fine with might/fury/swiftness. Which is easy to get in a Fire and Air traitline synergy.

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@Stallic.2397 said:Would have to disagree. Core Ele is one of those specs that shines best when it's full glass cannon. And I honestly think that's the design of core. The two elites boost sustain in sacrifice for damage.

A lot of arcane traits mixed in with auras/signets/boons helps it compete with elite specs of any class.

In a pvp setting, the thing that really shuts it down is survivability. You have to stack barrier, conjures, cleanses, etc to even have the chance to survive. If there was an F5 that boosted that, without any corruption, then there would be no need to worry about damage or boons. Ele can do just fine with might/fury/swiftness. Which is easy to get in a Fire and Air traitline synergy.

In no shape and form does core ele outdamage elite specs. Weapons are just too incompetent without elite spec traits/additional skills. The only place where core ele can be close with damage output to weaver is wvw zergs because most of your damage comes from core skills and traits and it's rng based due to meteors.

I dont know what you mean by auras/signets/boons because you can get those even on elite specs, usually with better uptimes.

S/f ele has better sustain than weaver, but weaver does much better damage. D/f LR ele lacks damage compared to weaver (water sustain can compensate barrier loss). Condi core ele doesnt even exist, neither does support. Having to use fire+air to get access to 2 basic boons is terrible for build craft and some minor dps/defense buff from F5 dont change that at all and dont improve combat in any way. Condi damage is irrelevant when your main pressure comes from 1 weapon skill and 1 utility skill (without even being able to cover it with more than 3 conditions).

You could easily go water/earth/arcane with cantrips and earth shield for high defense, but you'll have no damage. And to be honest, after feb patch you dont even need that much defense, arcane+water is enough on core ele. The only way to get damage is through high base damage on skills or high might uptime. Ele has none of those. Ele's too reliant on fire+air to do direct damage and it has great power scaling (and a lot of small burn/bleed applications) which you cant use due to lack of might (an average melee ele build has 2-3 blasts in its kit only and on ranged builds they are completely unusable).

Core ele cant be relevant with just an addition of F5, it needs trait overhaul like rev got with battle scars, engi with explosion entrance, necro and guard with specific skill change based on trait, thief with whole utility category change, mesmer who got phantasms actually scale well with traits and scale with boons by giving them back to mesmer etc etc.

The only useful thing that ele got was aura transmutation, which is great, but has low value since you mostly have access to only one of those.

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@steki.1478 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:Would have to disagree. Core Ele is one of those specs that shines best when it's full glass cannon. And I honestly think that's the design of core. The two elites boost sustain in sacrifice for damage.

A lot of arcane traits mixed in with auras/signets/boons helps it compete with elite specs of any class.

In a pvp setting, the thing that really shuts it down is survivability. You have to stack barrier, conjures, cleanses, etc to even have the chance to survive. If there was an F5 that boosted that, without any corruption, then there would be no need to worry about damage or boons. Ele can do just fine with might/fury/swiftness. Which is easy to get in a Fire and Air traitline synergy.

In no shape and form does core ele outdamage elite specs. Weapons are just too incompetent without elite spec traits/additional skills. The only place where core ele can be close with damage output to weaver is wvw zergs because most of your damage comes from core skills and traits and it's rng based due to meteors.

I dont know what you mean by auras/signets/boons because you can get those even on elite specs, usually with better uptimes.

S/f ele has better sustain than weaver, but weaver does much better damage. D/f LR ele lacks damage compared to weaver (water sustain can compensate barrier loss). Condi core ele doesnt even exist, neither does support. Having to use fire+air to get access to 2 basic boons is terrible for build craft and some minor dps/defense buff from F5 dont change that at all and dont improve combat in any way. Condi damage is irrelevant when your main pressure comes from 1 weapon skill and 1 utility skill (without even being able to cover it with more than 3 conditions).

You could easily go water/earth/arcane with cantrips and earth shield for high defense, but you'll have no damage. And to be honest, after feb patch you dont even need that much defense, arcane+water is enough on core ele. The only way to get damage is through high base damage on skills or high might uptime. Ele has none of those. Ele's too reliant on fire+air to do direct damage and it has great power scaling (and a lot of small burn/bleed applications) which you cant use due to lack of might (an average melee ele build has 2-3 blasts in its kit only and on ranged builds they are completely unusable).

Core ele cant be relevant with just an addition of F5, it needs trait overhaul like rev got with battle scars, engi with explosion entrance, necro and guard with specific skill change based on trait, thief with whole utility category change, mesmer who got phantasms actually scale well with traits and scale with boons by giving them back to mesmer etc etc.

The only useful thing that ele got was aura transmutation, which is great, but has low value since you mostly have access to only one of those.

These points may be correct in PvE or WvW but in Pvp they don't hold up. Pvp is about burst and survival and that is where Core Ele shines best. Dagger and Staff have that burst without having 20sec attunement CD's like tempest or clunky weapon management like weaver. You want to get those fire and air skills off, then quickly get out. Core Ele can do that, but because it's sustain isn't as great as other classes, it's pushed out of play. Sad because Core Ele is just a step or two below the others.

Weaver and Tempest can out dps core in long fights, that's for sure. So I agree with that. Probably why those specializations are preferred in PvE and WvW. Long fights and big groups are not good for core. But in PvP, it's all about speed and quick thinking. The burst of core is stronger. Scepter is the only outlier that really does better on weaver than core. It's burst can't be beat. But the tradeoff is, you loose all the sustain that weaver grants for clunky weapon management. Which is why it's rarely played.

Will Core ever outshine Weaver in all aspects? Prob not. Doing a traitline rework would be useless. But adding an F5 to sustain so that core can shine in PvP. That sounds way more manageable. You can have strong burst, easy escape, and repeat. Right now in Pvp, weavers and tempests are better for support and bruiser builds. Burst builds are lacking.

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@MyPuppy.8970 said:As a core player i'd be glad to have F5 just applying aura depending on attunement. That would fit the elemental armor thing and justify all those aura traits and stuff despite having only one aura skill per weapon except scepter.

I like the main posts idea but this (^) is honestly the easiest way to buff core without changing anything to the elites. It wouldn't even require that much Developer Attention. Tempests share auras but Core Ele should be the master of Auras.You can cleanse, gain boons, and mitigate damage with auras. It's honestly a fair and decent buff without destroying balance. The CD of how quickly Core Ele could attain an Aura based off their attunement would have to be reasonable. Shocking and Magnetic Aura are very strong in the right hands. But I really wish Anet would implement this.

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:I'm pretty sure ANet try to drift away from the "added" F skills for e-specs... So...The concept itself isn't bad but, in my eyes, it look a bit like weaver's elite stance which make it redundant.

Seems you misunderstood something.

His concept is not meant for a new coming elite spec, but he wants to add an F5 skill to core elementalist. Possibly to give them another mechanic that elementalist can give up for the trade off system. Tempest is still one of the elite specs in the game which doesn't have a trade off, it is an add on for elementalist. Giving core a new F5 button which tempest (and weaver probably) can lose could introduce the needed trade off.

Which is nothing unheard of either. Anet already did something similar for engineer (elite toolbelt skill) and revenant (F2 ancient echo) in the past.

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