Blood Bank: Anet, this is Design Failure

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:I dunno guys, this trait is incredibly powerful right now, I just can't find an actual use for it lol.

Just two quibbles;Scourge does not have a competitive condi-dps build, especially with Blood Magic. Also, calling a trait incredibly powerful while useless is a contradiction. I would shorten that description to incredibly unnecessary.

Well, if you read the suggestion I made for it being a DPS trait, there would be a competitive condi-dps build for scourge, especially with Blood Magic.But I didn't say its useless. I just can't find a use for it currently. That doesn't mean its crap. Its just not necessary, as you said.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:I dunno guys, this trait is incredibly powerful right now, I just can't find an actual use for it lol.

I'd say that's exactly the issue with the trait. It's strong on the paper but do not have practical use.

Honneslty, why not just have it give a good chunk of barrier whenever the necromancer use and elite skill. In fact it would be infinitely more useful and balanced than the actual effect.

[jpsssss.7530]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:I dunno guys, this trait is incredibly powerful right now, I just can't find an actual use for it lol.

I'd say that's exactly the issue with the trait. It's strong on the paper but do not have practical use.

Honneslty, why not just have it give a good chunk of barrier whenever the necromancer use and elite skill. In fact it would be infinitely more useful and balanced than the actual effect.

That'd be great, but necromancer has the longest cooldowns on elite skill in the game. Like its not even close. So cool you get it once every 3 mins on core necro unless you're a minion mancer then you get it once every 40 seconds but the flesh golem has bad AI, once per minute IF you're traited for shouts on reaper and once every 60, or once every 1min 15 sec on scourge IF you're traited. Like thats gotta be a HUGE barrier because barrier only lasts 5 seconds...

Blood bank would only be worth taking as an adept trait and even then its got stiff competition. This trait is an intelligence check just like sand savant is. If you take either you fail said intelligence check and will be laughed at by your peers.

[Obtena.7952]

@Dirame.8521 said:Blood bank makes it such that there never is such a thing as a wasted heal on you.

Actually, that's not true ... it caps at the barrier limit. In the limit situation where it does work ... heals are still being wasted.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

It is kind of an odd trait, it is probably going to have some use with the next expansion would be my guess. Extremely flimsy as it is now but as others have said in zergs with heal bot specs just spamming heals it makes you (with a little situational awareness) pretty much unkillable, but it is only for the necro which is weird cause what does it matter if the necro lives longest while the rest of the zerg goes down in that situation. Very weird design direction, that is why I think it might be for the next expansion, but if that is the case then I guess that means necro will play some kind of support role.

[Kodama.6453]

@Crazy.6029 said:It is kind of an odd trait, it is probably going to have some use with the next expansion would be my guess. Extremely flimsy as it is now but as others have said in zergs with heal bot specs just spamming heals it makes you (with a little situational awareness) pretty much unkillable, but it is only for the necro which is weird cause what does it matter if the necro lives longest while the rest of the zerg goes down in that situation. Very weird design direction, that is why I think it might be for the next expansion, but if that is the case then I guess that means necro will play some kind of support role.

I think it might be a bruiser elite spec.

Necro already has a support elite spec with scourge. Reaper is their dps elite spec. What is missing is a bruiser ala scrapper/daredevil.If the next elite spec, for example, has alot of lifesteal, then blood bank might become a good option to increase your survivability even further.

[jpsssss.7530]

@Kodama.6453 said:Necro already has a support elite spec with scourge. Reaper is their dps elite spec. What is missing is a bruiser ala scrapper/daredevil.If the next elite spec, for example, has alot of lifesteal, then blood bank might become a good option to increase your survivability even further.

Scourge is a kitten joke in WvW. I haven't seen a scourge in a zerg since July 8th. Metabattle may say power curses still exists, but it doesn't from what I've seen. Most have been replaced by Reaper, and more supportive builds have been replaced by healing Scrapper and Tempest.

Let's also not forget that a GRANDMASTER trait replaced an already perfectly OK trait that would've been used more with the well buffs (the ones that got reverted kek) while providing almost no power. Scrapper has a more useful barrier oriented MINOR GM trait in Impact Savant. Impact Savant is a far better trait even with the 180 Vitality decrease...

[Kodama.6453]

@jpsssss.7530 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Necro already has a support elite spec with scourge. Reaper is their dps elite spec. What is missing is a bruiser ala scrapper/daredevil.If the next elite spec, for example, has alot of lifesteal, then blood bank might become a good option to increase your survivability even further.

Scourge is a kitten joke in WvW. I haven't seen a scourge in a zerg since July 8th. Metabattle may say power curses still exists, but it doesn't from what I've seen. Most have been replaced by Reaper, and more supportive builds have been replaced by healing Scrapper and Tempest.

Let's also not forget that a GRANDMASTER trait replaced an already perfectly OK trait that would've been used more with the well buffs (the ones that got reverted kek) while providing almost no power. Scrapper has a more useful barrier oriented MINOR GM trait in Impact Savant. Impact Savant is a far better trait even with the 180 Vitality decrease...

First of all, scourge being weak in WvW is no argument to give another support elite spec when necromancer already has one. It is just an argument that scourge should get buffs/reworks to actually make it strong/viable again.Necromancer has a support elite spec, if it is underperforming then buff it, but don't just throw the next support elite spec at necromancer and forget about scourge.

Second, blood bank might potentially have synergy with the coming elite spec. We don't know yet. Impact savant is a powerful grandmaster minor trait, but it also has weaknesses. It just provides barrier for power damage, not condition damage, which limits scrappers build variety. Also it is funny that you are mentioning support scrappers here, since impact savant is almost entirely dead on that build, since these don't really deal alot of damage. They mostly camp med kit for the group healing,you almost get no benefit out of that minor trait at all.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

I tested around with blood bank noticed it gave me barrier even then i didnt overheal

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:I tested around with blood bank noticed it gave me barrier even then i didnt overheal

Do you have Runes of Sanctuary? Because I tested and Blood Bank doesn't do anything at all if you're not full health or pushed over full health by the healing.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:I tested around with blood bank noticed it gave me barrier even then i didnt overheal

Do you have Runes of Sanctuary? Because I tested and Blood Bank doesn't do anything at all if you're not full health or pushed over full health by the healing.

Nope i noticed that i kept getting barrier even then i was half health this was day after balance i wondered how it worked and tested it. Might been fixed was fun while it lasted :(

[Lily.1935]

Used it in WvW. Its boring, but effective. Its honestly too much. I was surviving in situations I shouldn't have. I could even pop my heal before entering direct combat and go into shroud and just generate so much extra health and even after dropping out I could heal up what little burst foes could get on me and keep going since my shroud would be up soon.

It had an attrition problem, but encounters didn't last long enough for it to matter. And the extra buffer on Lich form was just dumb.

The trait is good at keeping your shroud up for insanely long periods of time but I don't think it's good to have such a hard hitting ranged class in WvW that is that tough.

I was using core necromancer too. Probably the most boring build I've run in ages.

[Shroud.2307]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@"Brujeria.7536" said:I agree, this might be the single worst trait in the game. It gives a benefit only when you dont need it and doenst help you when you need help. I wouldnt even want this as a minor trait.

Soul Comprehension still exists.

To Soul Comprehension's credit, it is not a grandmaster trait.

True. I personally will say that Soul Comprehension is the worst trait in the game and Blood Bank is a tight second, though easily the worst Major and/or Grandmaster trait in the game.

My vote is still on this as the worst trait in the game

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backpack_Regenerator

Scaling is nearly non-existent and the only kits you're likely to use for an extended period of time are Flamethrower and Med Kit. Comeback Cure (grant Regeneration when you cure a Condition) is pretty awful too, but at least it has no ICD and is a Boon that will scale with Concentration.

I think just about every class has at least a couple traits that are so bad they may as well not exist. Soul Comprehension and Blood Bank are both definitely pretty terrible, but I don't think I'd place anything over Backpack Regenerator.

[Kodama.6453]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@"Brujeria.7536" said:I agree, this might be the single worst trait in the game. It gives a benefit only when you dont need it and doenst help you when you need help. I wouldnt even want this as a minor trait.

Soul Comprehension still exists.

To Soul Comprehension's credit, it is not a grandmaster trait.

True. I personally will say that Soul Comprehension is the worst trait in the game and Blood Bank is a tight second, though easily the worst Major and/or Grandmaster trait in the game.

My vote is still on this as the worst trait in the game

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backpack_Regenerator

Scaling is nearly non-existent and the only kits you're likely to use for an extended period of time are Flamethrower and Med Kit. Comeback Cure (grant Regeneration when you cure a Condition) is pretty awful too, but at least it has no ICD and is a Boon that will scale with Concentration.

I think just about every class has at least a couple traits that are so bad they may as well not exist. Soul Comprehension and Blood Bank are both definitely pretty terrible, but I don't think I'd place anything over Backpack Regenerator.

Oh yeah, backpack regenerator is really aweful. It doesn't even work with medical dispersion field. Would be great if they could rework it some time in the future.

[Obtena.7952]

@Lily.1935 said:Used it in WvW. Its boring, but effective. Its honestly too much. I was surviving in situations I shouldn't have. I could even pop my heal before entering direct combat and go into shroud and just generate so much extra health and even after dropping out I could heal up what little burst foes could get on me and keep going since my shroud would be up soon.

It had an attrition problem, but encounters didn't last long enough for it to matter. And the extra buffer on Lich form was just dumb.

The trait is good at keeping your shroud up for insanely long periods of time but I don't think it's good to have such a hard hitting ranged class in WvW that is that tough.

I was using core necromancer too. Probably the most boring build I've run in ages.

Bolded the best part ... probably the worst part about this trait ... when it works, it's ridiculous ... when it rarely works at all in a very specific scenario.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Used it in WvW. Its boring, but effective. Its honestly too much.

I was surviving in situations I shouldn't have.

I could even pop my heal before entering direct combat and go into shroud and just generate so much extra health and even after dropping out I could heal up what little burst foes could get on me and keep going since my shroud would be up soon.

It had an attrition problem, but encounters didn't last long enough for it to matter. And the extra buffer on Lich form was just dumb.

The trait is good at keeping your shroud up for insanely long periods of time but I don't think it's good to have such a hard hitting ranged class in WvW that is that tough.

I was using core necromancer too. Probably the most boring build I've run in ages.

Bolded the best part ... probably the worst part about this trait ... when it works, it's ridiculous ... when it rarely works at all in a very specific scenario.

Maybe that was Arenanet's intent for the trait: Necro's with full zerg support rampaging freely through enemy lines spreading corruption everywhere for WvW balance. It's better than Plague Form! Also, it gives Duids more job satisfaction seeing their team's Necro's DoTing about and 'coptering with impunity.

[Apokriphos.7042]

Whatever Anets design philosophy for this trait was, it is getting no real use. Even in the niche scenario described above where the entire zergs resources are dedicated to overhealing their necro pre engage, that effect is both extremely wasteful and ultimately pointless due to duration.

If there ever becomes a scenario where a hypothetical zerg consists only of druids and necros using this trait to barrier facetank, it will be swiftly nerfed to the ground.

This redesign needs a redesign.

[Nimon.7840]

@Apokriphos.7042 said:Whatever Anets design philosophy for this trait was, it is getting no real use. Even in the niche scenario described above where the entire zergs resources are dedicated to overhealing their necro pre engage, that effect is both extremely wasteful and ultimately pointless due to duration.

If there ever becomes a scenario where a hypothetical zerg consists only of druids and necros using this trait to barrier facetank, it will be swiftly nerfed to the ground.

But then the question would be: why would you ever use bloodmagic that doesn't contribute at all to necro's offensive power. Or at least not as much as basically all other traitlines do.

Necro/scourge gets already outshined:

• don't even wanna talk about support
• in terms of damage by core guards, revs, engs, eles
• in terms of corrupts/strips by warrior (in short fights), mesmer in long fights (mesmer doing about the double amount of strips, that a necro does, fully equipped and traited for corrupts)

And one could argue, that right now, at least in a guild environment, but in some public zergs as well, it's better to have strips, because strips cannot be converted to boons again, by enemy scrappers

[Dadnir.5038]

@Apokriphos.7042 said:Whatever Anets design philosophy for this trait was, it is getting no real use. Even in the niche scenario described above where the entire zergs resources are dedicated to overhealing their necro pre engage, that effect is both extremely wasteful and ultimately pointless due to duration.

If there ever becomes a scenario where a hypothetical zerg consists only of druids and necros using this trait to barrier facetank, it will be swiftly nerfed to the ground.

This redesign needs a redesign.

You just have to look at it for what it is: A 50% increase to the necromancer's health pool that can be sustained in a fight. This is just yet another overpowered trait (due to the already large health pool of the necromancer) within the necromancer WvW niche that's lackluster outside this very niche.

It's a tank trait for a profession that cannot tank due to a lack of stability and utility for it's group. The only area where it can really bloom is in WvW zergling with the support of a heal and someone providing stability/aegis. An area where the necromancer didn't need any buff.

[Kodama.6453]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Apokriphos.7042 said:Whatever Anets design philosophy for this trait was, it is getting no real use. Even in the niche scenario described above where the entire zergs resources are dedicated to overhealing their necro pre engage, that effect is both extremely wasteful and ultimately pointless due to duration.

If there ever becomes a scenario where a hypothetical zerg consists only of druids and necros using this trait to barrier facetank, it will be swiftly nerfed to the ground.

This redesign needs a redesign.

You just have to look at it for what it is: A 50% increase to the necromancer's health pool that can be sustained in a fight. This is just yet another overpowered trait (due to the already large health pool of the necromancer) within the necromancer WvW niche that's lackluster outside this very niche.

It's a tank trait for a profession that cannot tank due to a lack of stability and utility for it's group. The only area where it can really bloom is in WvW zergling with the support of a heal and someone providing stability/aegis. An area where the necromancer didn't need any buff.

It is a tank trait for a profession that cannot tank yet.A third elite spec is coming in the future and it seems likely that the next elite spec for the necromancer will be a bruiser/tank spec ala scrapper/daredevil/spellbreaker.

So I am holding my judgement for this trait here until the next elite spec is released.

[Lily.1935]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Used it in WvW. Its boring, but effective. Its honestly too much.

I was surviving in situations I shouldn't have.

I could even pop my heal before entering direct combat and go into shroud and just generate so much extra health and even after dropping out I could heal up what little burst foes could get on me and keep going since my shroud would be up soon.

It had an attrition problem, but encounters didn't last long enough for it to matter. And the extra buffer on Lich form was just dumb.

The trait is good at keeping your shroud up for insanely long periods of time but I don't think it's good to have such a hard hitting ranged class in WvW that is that tough.

I was using core necromancer too. Probably the most boring build I've run in ages.

Bolded the best part ... probably the worst part about this trait ... when it works, it's ridiculous ... when it rarely works at all in a very specific scenario.

It was making the buffer in shroud with life steal a bit much. The passive healing from allies would often just give me large amounts of barrier after dropping at full health and I'd often take next to no lasting damage.

Honestly, combine with Dread and my fear sources and the healing from allies Lich form was basically a pillar of insane damage and there was little in the way that stopped me. I could throw out a fear, get quickness and proceed to shred foes while at full barrier with Lich form. Like, that's a lot.

Camp shroud, go into lich form, wreak people with a quickness empowered lich that also keeps being given max barrier. Use wells to strip boons and chill foes. Is my build the best iteration of its use? Probably not.

[Nimon.7840]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Apokriphos.7042" said:Whatever Anets design philosophy for this trait was, it is getting no real use. Even in the niche scenario described above where the entire zergs resources are dedicated to overhealing their necro pre engage, that effect is both extremely wasteful and ultimately pointless due to duration.

If there ever becomes a scenario where a hypothetical zerg consists only of druids and necros using this trait to barrier facetank, it will be swiftly nerfed to the ground.

This redesign needs a redesign.

You just have to look at it for what it is: A 50% increase to the necromancer's health pool that can be sustained in a fight. This is just yet another overpowered trait (due to the already large health pool of the necromancer) within the necromancer WvW niche that's lackluster outside this very niche.

It's a tank trait for a profession that cannot tank due to a lack of stability and utility for it's group. The only area where it can really bloom is in WvW zergling with the support of a heal and someone providing stability/aegis. An area where the necromancer didn't need any buff.

It is a tank trait for a profession that cannot tank

yet

.A third elite spec is coming in the future and it seems likely that the next elite spec for the necromancer will be a bruiser/tank spec ala scrapper/daredevil/spellbreaker.

You still don't understand what reaper is supposed to be, do you?Even though core fits this theme a little bit better in my opinion.

Reaper isn't really a dps spec. Else it would have long been buffed to equal levels dps wise, like all other classes.Necro is missing a single target dps spec. Not to mention that scourge is lacking in support.Kinda every support class got buffed to a point, that you can almost use it in good groups in endgame pve, scourge is the only one that's bad in good groups.You cannot keep up 25might on 10 people, you don't give quickness or alacrity or any other boon, that is asked for in endgame pve. And you can't even play scourge as a full support in wvw.

And this trait, does basically have no synergy with a necro's kit. But I don't believe, that you can make anything out of this trait.It's just a bad implementation disguised as a "new exciting trait" because they wanted to remove the wells trait. Why? Well there was a spvp well reaper that might have performed too good in anets opinion.

So I am holding my judgement for this trait here until the next elite spec is released.

[Coeruleum.9164]

My redesign for Blood Bank: Whenever you are healed, you gain a barrier with half the amount of health.Secondary option: Whenever you siphon health, you gain a barrier with an equal amount of health.

These should be tested to see which is better, and if they're equal the devs can just pick the one they like more. Either of these would be infinitely more useful than the current Blood Bank.

[Kodama.6453]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Apokriphos.7042" said:Whatever Anets design philosophy for this trait was, it is getting no real use. Even in the niche scenario described above where the entire zergs resources are dedicated to overhealing their necro pre engage, that effect is both extremely wasteful and ultimately pointless due to duration.

If there ever becomes a scenario where a hypothetical zerg consists only of druids and necros using this trait to barrier facetank, it will be swiftly nerfed to the ground.

This redesign needs a redesign.

You just have to look at it for what it is: A 50% increase to the necromancer's health pool that can be sustained in a fight. This is just yet another overpowered trait (due to the already large health pool of the necromancer) within the necromancer WvW niche that's lackluster outside this very niche.

It's a tank trait for a profession that cannot tank due to a lack of stability and utility for it's group. The only area where it can really bloom is in WvW zergling with the support of a heal and someone providing stability/aegis. An area where the necromancer didn't need any buff.

It is a tank trait for a profession that cannot tank

yet

.A third elite spec is coming in the future and it seems likely that the next elite spec for the necromancer will be a bruiser/tank spec ala scrapper/daredevil/spellbreaker.

You still don't understand what reaper is supposed to be, do you?Even though core fits this theme a little bit better in my opinion.

Reaper isn't really a dps spec. Else it would have long been buffed to equal levels dps wise, like all other classes.Necro is missing a single target dps spec. Not to mention that scourge is lacking in support.Kinda every support class got buffed to a point, that you can almost use it in good groups in endgame pve, scourge is the only one that's bad in good groups.You cannot keep up 25might on 10 people, you don't give quickness or alacrity or any other boon, that is asked for in endgame pve. And you can't even play scourge as a full support in wvw.

And this trait, does basically have no synergy with a necro's kit. But I don't believe, that you can make anything out of this trait.It's just a bad implementation disguised as a "new exciting trait" because they wanted to remove the wells trait. Why? Well there was a spvp well reaper that might have performed too good in anets opinion.

So I am holding my judgement for this trait here until the next elite spec is released.

Just because reaper doesn't exactly match the dps of other elite specs does not necessarily mean it isn't supposed to be necromancer's dps elite spec.

Alot of changes they did to reaper over time are showing that Anet intents it to be the dps option for necromancers. They replaced the trait that made reapers take less damage from chilled foes with a trait that gives more damage against chilled foes. Reapers now get permanent quickness while in reaper's shroud. Reapers also get a big load of ferocity while in reaper's shroud.

The reason why Anet still keeps reaper at a lower dps than other classes might be because reapers tend to be better at keeping themselves alive over other professions, especially while playing solo. It doesn't make sense to give them the same damage while they are also having an easier time to stay alive.Not every class needs to do the same thing on the same level. Reaper can be an intended dps elite spec, even if it does less damage than dps elite specs on other classes.

It's also quite possible that these differences will swing in necromancer's favor in the future. If they really get a tank/bruiser elite spec next, as I assume, it might be that this spec is performing better at a tanking role than the elite specs of other classes (scrapper, daredevil, spellbreaker).

We will see if I am right with my assumption that necromancer will get a bruiser spec or not, no point in debating that now since we have no clue what is going to come. I personally don't think that you will get a dps spec.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Kodama.6453" said:It is a tank trait for a profession that cannot tank yet.A third elite spec is coming in the future and it seems likely that the next elite spec for the necromancer will be a bruiser/tank spec ala scrapper/daredevil/spellbreaker.

It's not an impossibility, yet quite some work is needed for the necromancer to have a tank spec worth taking as a tank/bruiser outside of WvW zerg. As for bruising in WvW, reaper do that just fine. Entering a zerg, unleashing all hells while under the cover of the shroud and then retreating is already quite good for a "bruiser".

An e-spec can cover the issue of the lack of personal "stability/block" that prevent the necromancer from being a tank, however no e-spec can prevent the necromancer's tools from being reindered useless by environment mechanisms and a tank spot in GW2 often need more from the tank than just being able to take a hit.

So I am holding my judgement for this trait here until the next elite spec is released.

Like I said it's a possibility, yet I wouldn't recommend to have one's hope high up.