Last Balance Patch shifted/didn‘t shift the Meta

[DonNee.5128]

luckily shao spared everyone in mota, otherwise his warrior would trash all those telegraphed condi revs on the sidemaybe warriors should just l2p and not be all <1500 rating, that'll help

[Shao.7236]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Shao.7236 said:You can actually play what you want given you care enough to play it right. There's a lot of clear counters to many builds and I have yet to see one that can do it all.

I think many warriors would disagree with this sentiment...

Because all warriors were actually spellbreakers playing the same tether might spam endurance regen build when PoF came out. They all got the same cheesy slice and it's gone, have to get gud now.

Ah yes, because the reason we dont see

any

warriors in top tier or any tournaments anymore is just because they have to "get gud" and not the fact that warrior is currently unplayable. And its only coencidence that Anet buffed them up (even if it was far from enough).

I've seen and played warrior builds that are pretty viable, obviously they aren't going to dance around a node for the entire duration of the game because that's what the issue was in the first place. Again, having such high expectations.

You havent. There arent viable warrior builds right now. Thats a simple statement of fact. Warrior is on the same level (if not possibly below) mirage right now, who is equally unplayable. Thats why there were 0 warriors in MOTA, 0 in high ranks, and probably 0 in MATs (I admit I stopped counting after a while). If by "high expectations" you mean "thinking that a class shouldnt be so bad every good player drops it like a hot potato", then you have a weird definition of "high expectations". Also, you are aware that dancing around a node for the entire duration of the game is the default right now, right? Sidenoders dont die in a 1v1, ever. They get +1d, and until then they just try to knock the other off the point using knockbacks. Thats actually warriors biggest issue, a lack of a good knockback.

Most warriors (Even myself) that I see play deal damage and actually don't waste all their CC at once because that was something back then, spamming everything you got because damage. Setup bursts rather, Stomp exists as a knock back that grants Stability too, be it anything with more than 1 target, that's more stacks.

Again, you dont. Damage in general right now is too low to ever kill someone on your own, and Warrior is lower than even the average. Also, if anything, you spam more

now

, because you cant afford to delay even a single point of damage, because well, there is too little of it anyway. Right now warrior is a sidenoder who simply lacks the knockback and damage to be effective, and provides

nothing

.

Also to imply that "good" players use anything that has a skill ceiling is false, they don't. People would actually have an identity with their so called "favorite" class if they did.

Ah yes, thats why we see so many Power revs played in top tier. After all, it famously has no skill ceiling, and totally isnt a really difficult class that even Anet confirmed is difficult. You dont actually believe your rubbish yourself, do you? No, they didnt use Warrior not because its got a "skill ceiling", but simply because warrior is currently not viable at all.

All Revs that play top tier don't even duel, your point?

Whats that got to do with anything? Your claim was that "good players wouldnt use anything with a skill ceiling". My easy counterpoint to that is power rev, something that has a high skill ceiling, and that good players play. A

lot

. So, your logic fails.

Gonna add to the fact they are all herald, power or condi and never reach to challenge players because they clearly can't play it to that much potential, there has been less players than I can count on my fingers that actually play Herald Power without being just a pseudo theif wanna be delete everything picking the fights.

Elitism from below. Now thats new. But equally ridiculous.

It's clear that even if they wanted, the meta builds are terrible at it anyway, but this is conquest. Obviously we wouldn't care, but that still doesn't change the truth of it.

The truth that spellbreaker is not viable? Yeah sure, that doenst change.

The current meta power herald has a "medium" skill ceiling, it barely interacts with what it makes revenant the class it is and the high skill ceiling aspect is never used in practice, core on the other hand has way more going for it. Condi Herald has a low skill ceiling to medium in my opinion given that nobody ever manages conditions at all on their teams, they call it a duelist/side nodder instead which is a /joke/, because it's the most telegraphed and easier to control given that it can actually turn mid fights around with proper managing instead of wasting it's time never dying against people don't know how to deal with them.

If your "logic" were to hold, it would hold on all iterations. We had a high skill ceiling Rev be extremely popular, to the point where Anet even talked about it. Ask Leonidrex about it, he got the memes for it. But long story short, high skill ceiling, still extremely popular. Good players play anything if its good. Even high skill ceiling classes.

Spellbreaker is no longer the evade spam class that it was, it's not hard to see why it fell out of the meta.

... of all the things to mention. You mention the one that ... wasnt hit? Warrios evades werent touched. It has nothing to do why its not meta. Instead, its not meta because sidenoding has been reduced to knockbacks and waiting for +1s, and Warrior doesnt have a good knockback and its not great at setting up +1s either. Its woefully lacking in damage.

Yeah sure warrior not being meta totally has to do with the fact it can't evade spam anymore. Meanwhile Hammer is pretty good actually.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Shao.7236 said:You can actually play what you want given you care enough to play it right. There's a lot of clear counters to many builds and I have yet to see one that can do it all.

I think many warriors would disagree with this sentiment...

Because all warriors were actually spellbreakers playing the same tether might spam endurance regen build when PoF came out. They all got the same cheesy slice and it's gone, have to get gud now.

Ah yes, because the reason we dont see

any

warriors in top tier or any tournaments anymore is just because they have to "get gud" and not the fact that warrior is currently unplayable. And its only coencidence that Anet buffed them up (even if it was far from enough).

I've seen and played warrior builds that are pretty viable, obviously they aren't going to dance around a node for the entire duration of the game because that's what the issue was in the first place. Again, having such high expectations.

You havent. There arent viable warrior builds right now. Thats a simple statement of fact. Warrior is on the same level (if not possibly below) mirage right now, who is equally unplayable. Thats why there were 0 warriors in MOTA, 0 in high ranks, and probably 0 in MATs (I admit I stopped counting after a while). If by "high expectations" you mean "thinking that a class shouldnt be so bad every good player drops it like a hot potato", then you have a weird definition of "high expectations". Also, you are aware that dancing around a node for the entire duration of the game is the default right now, right? Sidenoders dont die in a 1v1, ever. They get +1d, and until then they just try to knock the other off the point using knockbacks. Thats actually warriors biggest issue, a lack of a good knockback.

Most warriors (Even myself) that I see play deal damage and actually don't waste all their CC at once because that was something back then, spamming everything you got because damage. Setup bursts rather, Stomp exists as a knock back that grants Stability too, be it anything with more than 1 target, that's more stacks.

Again, you dont. Damage in general right now is too low to ever kill someone on your own, and Warrior is lower than even the average. Also, if anything, you spam more

now

, because you cant afford to delay even a single point of damage, because well, there is too little of it anyway. Right now warrior is a sidenoder who simply lacks the knockback and damage to be effective, and provides

nothing

.

Also to imply that "good" players use anything that has a skill ceiling is false, they don't. People would actually have an identity with their so called "favorite" class if they did.

Ah yes, thats why we see so many Power revs played in top tier. After all, it famously has no skill ceiling, and totally isnt a really difficult class that even Anet confirmed is difficult. You dont actually believe your rubbish yourself, do you? No, they didnt use Warrior not because its got a "skill ceiling", but simply because warrior is currently not viable at all.

All Revs that play top tier don't even duel, your point?

Whats that got to do with anything? Your claim was that "good players wouldnt use anything with a skill ceiling". My easy counterpoint to that is power rev, something that has a high skill ceiling, and that good players play. A

lot

. So, your logic fails.

Gonna add to the fact they are all herald, power or condi and never reach to challenge players because they clearly can't play it to that much potential, there has been less players than I can count on my fingers that actually play Herald Power without being just a pseudo theif wanna be delete everything picking the fights.

Elitism from below. Now thats new. But equally ridiculous.

It's clear that even if they wanted, the meta builds are terrible at it anyway, but this is conquest. Obviously we wouldn't care, but that still doesn't change the truth of it.

The truth that spellbreaker is not viable? Yeah sure, that doenst change.

The current meta power herald has a "medium" skill ceiling, it barely interacts with what it makes revenant the class it is and the high skill ceiling aspect is never used in practice, core on the other hand has way more going for it. Condi Herald has a low skill ceiling to medium in my opinion given that nobody ever manages conditions at all on their teams, they call it a duelist/side nodder instead which is a /joke/, because it's the most telegraphed and easier to control given that it can actually turn mid fights around with proper managing instead of wasting it's time never dying against people don't know how to deal with them.

If your "logic" were to hold, it would hold on all iterations. We had a high skill ceiling Rev be extremely popular, to the point where Anet even talked about it. Ask Leonidrex about it, he got the memes for it. But long story short, high skill ceiling, still extremely popular. Good players play anything if its good. Even high skill ceiling classes.

Spellbreaker is no longer the evade spam class that it was, it's not hard to see why it fell out of the meta.

... of all the things to mention. You mention the one that ... wasnt hit? Warrios evades werent touched. It has nothing to do why its not meta. Instead, its not meta because sidenoding has been reduced to knockbacks and waiting for +1s, and Warrior doesnt have a good knockback and its not great at setting up +1s either. Its woefully lacking in damage.

Yeah sure warrior not being meta totally has to do with the fact it can't evade spam anymore. Meanwhile Hammer is pretty good actually.

Im not sure why you double down on the rubbish you say after its been debunked. Let me repeat. Warriors evades werent touched. If it could "evade spam" before, it can "evade spam" now. No, thats not it. And Hammer is also not "pretty good", its just as unviable. Man, you really have a bad habit of talking about classes you seem to not know at all.

[Dr Meta.3158]

Anything that isn't oppressively OP won't be meta. This is why most people dont play warrior anymore after the February balance patch made them reasonable. The few that do are diehard to the class and of those very, very few are skilled with it to make an impact on their matches. Rifle/greatsword Berserker is played in tournaments by well known, highly skilled players. Other than that, it's mostly people trying to relive the glory days when spellbreaker could easily win fights without ranpage and could use their elite skill to either end it quickly or win a fight they were severely outplayed in.

[Shao.7236]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Shao.7236 said:You can actually play what you want given you care enough to play it right. There's a lot of clear counters to many builds and I have yet to see one that can do it all.

I think many warriors would disagree with this sentiment...

Because all warriors were actually spellbreakers playing the same tether might spam endurance regen build when PoF came out. They all got the same cheesy slice and it's gone, have to get gud now.

Ah yes, because the reason we dont see

any

warriors in top tier or any tournaments anymore is just because they have to "get gud" and not the fact that warrior is currently unplayable. And its only coencidence that Anet buffed them up (even if it was far from enough).

I've seen and played warrior builds that are pretty viable, obviously they aren't going to dance around a node for the entire duration of the game because that's what the issue was in the first place. Again, having such high expectations.

You havent. There arent viable warrior builds right now. Thats a simple statement of fact. Warrior is on the same level (if not possibly below) mirage right now, who is equally unplayable. Thats why there were 0 warriors in MOTA, 0 in high ranks, and probably 0 in MATs (I admit I stopped counting after a while). If by "high expectations" you mean "thinking that a class shouldnt be so bad every good player drops it like a hot potato", then you have a weird definition of "high expectations". Also, you are aware that dancing around a node for the entire duration of the game is the default right now, right? Sidenoders dont die in a 1v1, ever. They get +1d, and until then they just try to knock the other off the point using knockbacks. Thats actually warriors biggest issue, a lack of a good knockback.

Most warriors (Even myself) that I see play deal damage and actually don't waste all their CC at once because that was something back then, spamming everything you got because damage. Setup bursts rather, Stomp exists as a knock back that grants Stability too, be it anything with more than 1 target, that's more stacks.

Again, you dont. Damage in general right now is too low to ever kill someone on your own, and Warrior is lower than even the average. Also, if anything, you spam more

now

, because you cant afford to delay even a single point of damage, because well, there is too little of it anyway. Right now warrior is a sidenoder who simply lacks the knockback and damage to be effective, and provides

nothing

.

Also to imply that "good" players use anything that has a skill ceiling is false, they don't. People would actually have an identity with their so called "favorite" class if they did.

Ah yes, thats why we see so many Power revs played in top tier. After all, it famously has no skill ceiling, and totally isnt a really difficult class that even Anet confirmed is difficult. You dont actually believe your rubbish yourself, do you? No, they didnt use Warrior not because its got a "skill ceiling", but simply because warrior is currently not viable at all.

All Revs that play top tier don't even duel, your point?

Whats that got to do with anything? Your claim was that "good players wouldnt use anything with a skill ceiling". My easy counterpoint to that is power rev, something that has a high skill ceiling, and that good players play. A

lot

. So, your logic fails.

Gonna add to the fact they are all herald, power or condi and never reach to challenge players because they clearly can't play it to that much potential, there has been less players than I can count on my fingers that actually play Herald Power without being just a pseudo theif wanna be delete everything picking the fights.

Elitism from below. Now thats new. But equally ridiculous.

It's clear that even if they wanted, the meta builds are terrible at it anyway, but this is conquest. Obviously we wouldn't care, but that still doesn't change the truth of it.

The truth that spellbreaker is not viable? Yeah sure, that doenst change.

The current meta power herald has a "medium" skill ceiling, it barely interacts with what it makes revenant the class it is and the high skill ceiling aspect is never used in practice, core on the other hand has way more going for it. Condi Herald has a low skill ceiling to medium in my opinion given that nobody ever manages conditions at all on their teams, they call it a duelist/side nodder instead which is a /joke/, because it's the most telegraphed and easier to control given that it can actually turn mid fights around with proper managing instead of wasting it's time never dying against people don't know how to deal with them.

If your "logic" were to hold, it would hold on all iterations. We had a high skill ceiling Rev be extremely popular, to the point where Anet even talked about it. Ask Leonidrex about it, he got the memes for it. But long story short, high skill ceiling, still extremely popular. Good players play anything if its good. Even high skill ceiling classes.

Spellbreaker is no longer the evade spam class that it was, it's not hard to see why it fell out of the meta.

... of all the things to mention. You mention the one that ... wasnt hit? Warrios evades werent touched. It has nothing to do why its not meta. Instead, its not meta because sidenoding has been reduced to knockbacks and waiting for +1s, and Warrior doesnt have a good knockback and its not great at setting up +1s either. Its woefully lacking in damage.

Yeah sure warrior not being meta totally has to do with the fact it can't evade spam anymore. Meanwhile Hammer is pretty good actually.

Im not sure why you double down on the rubbish you say after its been debunked. Let me repeat. Warriors evades

werent touched

. If it could "evade spam" before, it can "evade spam" now. No, thats not it. And Hammer is also not "pretty good", its just as unviable. Man, you really have a bad habit of talking about classes you seem to not know at all.

What's bad about controlling people with weakness and the ability to hit for 5k+ every 3 seconds on those controlled people with a very mobile skill that can easily reach for free cleanses?? Christ, yes they were touched. Reckless dodge is nothing like it used to be, so are the dodge counts. typo*

[UNOwen.7132]

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Shao.7236 said:You can actually play what you want given you care enough to play it right. There's a lot of clear counters to many builds and I have yet to see one that can do it all.

I think many warriors would disagree with this sentiment...

Because all warriors were actually spellbreakers playing the same tether might spam endurance regen build when PoF came out. They all got the same cheesy slice and it's gone, have to get gud now.

Ah yes, because the reason we dont see

any

warriors in top tier or any tournaments anymore is just because they have to "get gud" and not the fact that warrior is currently unplayable. And its only coencidence that Anet buffed them up (even if it was far from enough).

I've seen and played warrior builds that are pretty viable, obviously they aren't going to dance around a node for the entire duration of the game because that's what the issue was in the first place. Again, having such high expectations.

You havent. There arent viable warrior builds right now. Thats a simple statement of fact. Warrior is on the same level (if not possibly below) mirage right now, who is equally unplayable. Thats why there were 0 warriors in MOTA, 0 in high ranks, and probably 0 in MATs (I admit I stopped counting after a while). If by "high expectations" you mean "thinking that a class shouldnt be so bad every good player drops it like a hot potato", then you have a weird definition of "high expectations". Also, you are aware that dancing around a node for the entire duration of the game is the default right now, right? Sidenoders dont die in a 1v1, ever. They get +1d, and until then they just try to knock the other off the point using knockbacks. Thats actually warriors biggest issue, a lack of a good knockback.

Most warriors (Even myself) that I see play deal damage and actually don't waste all their CC at once because that was something back then, spamming everything you got because damage. Setup bursts rather, Stomp exists as a knock back that grants Stability too, be it anything with more than 1 target, that's more stacks.

Again, you dont. Damage in general right now is too low to ever kill someone on your own, and Warrior is lower than even the average. Also, if anything, you spam more

now

, because you cant afford to delay even a single point of damage, because well, there is too little of it anyway. Right now warrior is a sidenoder who simply lacks the knockback and damage to be effective, and provides

nothing

.

Also to imply that "good" players use anything that has a skill ceiling is false, they don't. People would actually have an identity with their so called "favorite" class if they did.

Ah yes, thats why we see so many Power revs played in top tier. After all, it famously has no skill ceiling, and totally isnt a really difficult class that even Anet confirmed is difficult. You dont actually believe your rubbish yourself, do you? No, they didnt use Warrior not because its got a "skill ceiling", but simply because warrior is currently not viable at all.

All Revs that play top tier don't even duel, your point?

Whats that got to do with anything? Your claim was that "good players wouldnt use anything with a skill ceiling". My easy counterpoint to that is power rev, something that has a high skill ceiling, and that good players play. A

lot

. So, your logic fails.

Gonna add to the fact they are all herald, power or condi and never reach to challenge players because they clearly can't play it to that much potential, there has been less players than I can count on my fingers that actually play Herald Power without being just a pseudo theif wanna be delete everything picking the fights.

Elitism from below. Now thats new. But equally ridiculous.

It's clear that even if they wanted, the meta builds are terrible at it anyway, but this is conquest. Obviously we wouldn't care, but that still doesn't change the truth of it.

The truth that spellbreaker is not viable? Yeah sure, that doenst change.

The current meta power herald has a "medium" skill ceiling, it barely interacts with what it makes revenant the class it is and the high skill ceiling aspect is never used in practice, core on the other hand has way more going for it. Condi Herald has a low skill ceiling to medium in my opinion given that nobody ever manages conditions at all on their teams, they call it a duelist/side nodder instead which is a /joke/, because it's the most telegraphed and easier to control given that it can actually turn mid fights around with proper managing instead of wasting it's time never dying against people don't know how to deal with them.

If your "logic" were to hold, it would hold on all iterations. We had a high skill ceiling Rev be extremely popular, to the point where Anet even talked about it. Ask Leonidrex about it, he got the memes for it. But long story short, high skill ceiling, still extremely popular. Good players play anything if its good. Even high skill ceiling classes.

Spellbreaker is no longer the evade spam class that it was, it's not hard to see why it fell out of the meta.

... of all the things to mention. You mention the one that ... wasnt hit? Warrios evades werent touched. It has nothing to do why its not meta. Instead, its not meta because sidenoding has been reduced to knockbacks and waiting for +1s, and Warrior doesnt have a good knockback and its not great at setting up +1s either. Its woefully lacking in damage.

Yeah sure warrior not being meta totally has to do with the fact it can't evade spam anymore. Meanwhile Hammer is pretty good actually.

Im not sure why you double down on the rubbish you say after its been debunked. Let me repeat. Warriors evades

werent touched

. If it could "evade spam" before, it can "evade spam" now. No, thats not it. And Hammer is also not "pretty good", its just as unviable. Man, you really have a bad habit of talking about classes you seem to not know at all.

What's bad about controlling people with weakness and the ability to hit for 5k+ every 3 seconds on those controlled people with a very mobile skill that can easily reach for free cleanses?? Christ, yes there were touched. Reckless dodge is nothing like it used to be, so are the dodge counts.

The fact that when sidenoding you still dont get anywhere close to killing them, and without a good knockback you just lose the point. You also set up and deal with +1s very poorly. And youre just kinda outclassed by Ranger, Revenant and Holo ,as always.

"Dodge counts". Please do elaborate on that. Because as I said, no evading skill was touched on Warrior. And Reckless dodge is not an evade. Its damage. Its not even the most important bit of damage.

[Shao.7236]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Shao.7236 said:You can actually play what you want given you care enough to play it right. There's a lot of clear counters to many builds and I have yet to see one that can do it all.

I think many warriors would disagree with this sentiment...

Because all warriors were actually spellbreakers playing the same tether might spam endurance regen build when PoF came out. They all got the same cheesy slice and it's gone, have to get gud now.

Ah yes, because the reason we dont see

any

warriors in top tier or any tournaments anymore is just because they have to "get gud" and not the fact that warrior is currently unplayable. And its only coencidence that Anet buffed them up (even if it was far from enough).

I've seen and played warrior builds that are pretty viable, obviously they aren't going to dance around a node for the entire duration of the game because that's what the issue was in the first place. Again, having such high expectations.

You havent. There arent viable warrior builds right now. Thats a simple statement of fact. Warrior is on the same level (if not possibly below) mirage right now, who is equally unplayable. Thats why there were 0 warriors in MOTA, 0 in high ranks, and probably 0 in MATs (I admit I stopped counting after a while). If by "high expectations" you mean "thinking that a class shouldnt be so bad every good player drops it like a hot potato", then you have a weird definition of "high expectations". Also, you are aware that dancing around a node for the entire duration of the game is the default right now, right? Sidenoders dont die in a 1v1, ever. They get +1d, and until then they just try to knock the other off the point using knockbacks. Thats actually warriors biggest issue, a lack of a good knockback.

Most warriors (Even myself) that I see play deal damage and actually don't waste all their CC at once because that was something back then, spamming everything you got because damage. Setup bursts rather, Stomp exists as a knock back that grants Stability too, be it anything with more than 1 target, that's more stacks.

Again, you dont. Damage in general right now is too low to ever kill someone on your own, and Warrior is lower than even the average. Also, if anything, you spam more

now

, because you cant afford to delay even a single point of damage, because well, there is too little of it anyway. Right now warrior is a sidenoder who simply lacks the knockback and damage to be effective, and provides

nothing

.

Also to imply that "good" players use anything that has a skill ceiling is false, they don't. People would actually have an identity with their so called "favorite" class if they did.

Ah yes, thats why we see so many Power revs played in top tier. After all, it famously has no skill ceiling, and totally isnt a really difficult class that even Anet confirmed is difficult. You dont actually believe your rubbish yourself, do you? No, they didnt use Warrior not because its got a "skill ceiling", but simply because warrior is currently not viable at all.

All Revs that play top tier don't even duel, your point?

Whats that got to do with anything? Your claim was that "good players wouldnt use anything with a skill ceiling". My easy counterpoint to that is power rev, something that has a high skill ceiling, and that good players play. A

lot

. So, your logic fails.

Gonna add to the fact they are all herald, power or condi and never reach to challenge players because they clearly can't play it to that much potential, there has been less players than I can count on my fingers that actually play Herald Power without being just a pseudo theif wanna be delete everything picking the fights.

Elitism from below. Now thats new. But equally ridiculous.

It's clear that even if they wanted, the meta builds are terrible at it anyway, but this is conquest. Obviously we wouldn't care, but that still doesn't change the truth of it.

The truth that spellbreaker is not viable? Yeah sure, that doenst change.

The current meta power herald has a "medium" skill ceiling, it barely interacts with what it makes revenant the class it is and the high skill ceiling aspect is never used in practice, core on the other hand has way more going for it. Condi Herald has a low skill ceiling to medium in my opinion given that nobody ever manages conditions at all on their teams, they call it a duelist/side nodder instead which is a /joke/, because it's the most telegraphed and easier to control given that it can actually turn mid fights around with proper managing instead of wasting it's time never dying against people don't know how to deal with them.

If your "logic" were to hold, it would hold on all iterations. We had a high skill ceiling Rev be extremely popular, to the point where Anet even talked about it. Ask Leonidrex about it, he got the memes for it. But long story short, high skill ceiling, still extremely popular. Good players play anything if its good. Even high skill ceiling classes.

Spellbreaker is no longer the evade spam class that it was, it's not hard to see why it fell out of the meta.

... of all the things to mention. You mention the one that ... wasnt hit? Warrios evades werent touched. It has nothing to do why its not meta. Instead, its not meta because sidenoding has been reduced to knockbacks and waiting for +1s, and Warrior doesnt have a good knockback and its not great at setting up +1s either. Its woefully lacking in damage.

Yeah sure warrior not being meta totally has to do with the fact it can't evade spam anymore. Meanwhile Hammer is pretty good actually.

Im not sure why you double down on the rubbish you say after its been debunked. Let me repeat. Warriors evades

werent touched

. If it could "evade spam" before, it can "evade spam" now. No, thats not it. And Hammer is also not "pretty good", its just as unviable. Man, you really have a bad habit of talking about classes you seem to not know at all.

What's bad about controlling people with weakness and the ability to hit for 5k+ every 3 seconds on those controlled people with a very mobile skill that can easily reach for free cleanses?? Christ, yes there were touched. Reckless dodge is nothing like it used to be, so are the dodge counts.

The fact that when sidenoding you still dont get anywhere close to killing them, and without a good knockback you just lose the point. You also set up and deal with +1s very poorly. And youre just kinda outclassed by Ranger, Revenant and Holo ,as always.

"Dodge counts". Please do elaborate on that. Because as I said, no evading skill was touched on Warrior. And Reckless dodge is not an evade. Its damage. Its not even the most important bit of damage.

So you're talking about something else even thought I was clear about what I was saying, okay. It's a joke that you think Revenant or Holo have enough sustain to go around freely with all the CC available, Ranger is a fair match otherwise.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Dahkeus.8243 said:

@Shao.7236 said:You can actually play what you want given you care enough to play it right. There's a lot of clear counters to many builds and I have yet to see one that can do it all.

I think many warriors would disagree with this sentiment...

Because all warriors were actually spellbreakers playing the same tether might spam endurance regen build when PoF came out. They all got the same cheesy slice and it's gone, have to get gud now.

Ah yes, because the reason we dont see

any

warriors in top tier or any tournaments anymore is just because they have to "get gud" and not the fact that warrior is currently unplayable. And its only coencidence that Anet buffed them up (even if it was far from enough).

I've seen and played warrior builds that are pretty viable, obviously they aren't going to dance around a node for the entire duration of the game because that's what the issue was in the first place. Again, having such high expectations.

You havent. There arent viable warrior builds right now. Thats a simple statement of fact. Warrior is on the same level (if not possibly below) mirage right now, who is equally unplayable. Thats why there were 0 warriors in MOTA, 0 in high ranks, and probably 0 in MATs (I admit I stopped counting after a while). If by "high expectations" you mean "thinking that a class shouldnt be so bad every good player drops it like a hot potato", then you have a weird definition of "high expectations". Also, you are aware that dancing around a node for the entire duration of the game is the default right now, right? Sidenoders dont die in a 1v1, ever. They get +1d, and until then they just try to knock the other off the point using knockbacks. Thats actually warriors biggest issue, a lack of a good knockback.

Most warriors (Even myself) that I see play deal damage and actually don't waste all their CC at once because that was something back then, spamming everything you got because damage. Setup bursts rather, Stomp exists as a knock back that grants Stability too, be it anything with more than 1 target, that's more stacks.

Again, you dont. Damage in general right now is too low to ever kill someone on your own, and Warrior is lower than even the average. Also, if anything, you spam more

now

, because you cant afford to delay even a single point of damage, because well, there is too little of it anyway. Right now warrior is a sidenoder who simply lacks the knockback and damage to be effective, and provides

nothing

.

Also to imply that "good" players use anything that has a skill ceiling is false, they don't. People would actually have an identity with their so called "favorite" class if they did.

Ah yes, thats why we see so many Power revs played in top tier. After all, it famously has no skill ceiling, and totally isnt a really difficult class that even Anet confirmed is difficult. You dont actually believe your rubbish yourself, do you? No, they didnt use Warrior not because its got a "skill ceiling", but simply because warrior is currently not viable at all.

All Revs that play top tier don't even duel, your point?

Whats that got to do with anything? Your claim was that "good players wouldnt use anything with a skill ceiling". My easy counterpoint to that is power rev, something that has a high skill ceiling, and that good players play. A

lot

. So, your logic fails.

Gonna add to the fact they are all herald, power or condi and never reach to challenge players because they clearly can't play it to that much potential, there has been less players than I can count on my fingers that actually play Herald Power without being just a pseudo theif wanna be delete everything picking the fights.

Elitism from below. Now thats new. But equally ridiculous.

It's clear that even if they wanted, the meta builds are terrible at it anyway, but this is conquest. Obviously we wouldn't care, but that still doesn't change the truth of it.

The truth that spellbreaker is not viable? Yeah sure, that doenst change.

The current meta power herald has a "medium" skill ceiling, it barely interacts with what it makes revenant the class it is and the high skill ceiling aspect is never used in practice, core on the other hand has way more going for it. Condi Herald has a low skill ceiling to medium in my opinion given that nobody ever manages conditions at all on their teams, they call it a duelist/side nodder instead which is a /joke/, because it's the most telegraphed and easier to control given that it can actually turn mid fights around with proper managing instead of wasting it's time never dying against people don't know how to deal with them.

If your "logic" were to hold, it would hold on all iterations. We had a high skill ceiling Rev be extremely popular, to the point where Anet even talked about it. Ask Leonidrex about it, he got the memes for it. But long story short, high skill ceiling, still extremely popular. Good players play anything if its good. Even high skill ceiling classes.

Spellbreaker is no longer the evade spam class that it was, it's not hard to see why it fell out of the meta.

... of all the things to mention. You mention the one that ... wasnt hit? Warrios evades werent touched. It has nothing to do why its not meta. Instead, its not meta because sidenoding has been reduced to knockbacks and waiting for +1s, and Warrior doesnt have a good knockback and its not great at setting up +1s either. Its woefully lacking in damage.

Yeah sure warrior not being meta totally has to do with the fact it can't evade spam anymore. Meanwhile Hammer is pretty good actually.

Im not sure why you double down on the rubbish you say after its been debunked. Let me repeat. Warriors evades

werent touched

. If it could "evade spam" before, it can "evade spam" now. No, thats not it. And Hammer is also not "pretty good", its just as unviable. Man, you really have a bad habit of talking about classes you seem to not know at all.

What's bad about controlling people with weakness and the ability to hit for 5k+ every 3 seconds on those controlled people with a very mobile skill that can easily reach for free cleanses?? Christ, yes there were touched. Reckless dodge is nothing like it used to be, so are the dodge counts.

The fact that when sidenoding you still dont get anywhere close to killing them, and without a good knockback you just lose the point. You also set up and deal with +1s very poorly. And youre just kinda outclassed by Ranger, Revenant and Holo ,as always.

"Dodge counts". Please do elaborate on that. Because as I said, no evading skill was touched on Warrior. And Reckless dodge is not an evade. Its damage. Its not even the most important bit of damage.

So you're talking about something else even thought I was clear about what I was saying, okay. It's a joke that you think Revenant or Holo have enough sustain to go around freely with all the CC available, Ranger is a fair match otherwise.

You werent clear at all. When people say "evade spam", they refer to ... spamming evades. But as I said, Warrior now can evade exactly as much as before. So you are just using the word incorrectly. And oh they absolutely do. You dont need much sustain to deal with Warrior. Thats why its bad. Thats why no good player plays it. Thats why it wasnt seen in MOTA.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Yeh.

Condi Rev/Herald seeing less play,Scourges seeing slightly more. Chronomancers have reappeared. These classes -aren't- meta but they do check and make less oppressive the classes that -were- meta. It will take time to see if that shift is major or minor though.

@Shao.7236 said:Spellbreaker is no longer the evade spam class that it was, it's not hard to see why it fell out of the meta.

It fell out of meta because it had bugged damage values that people thought were a feature, and when that damage was fixed and people couldn't basically oneshot with level 2 bursts it became less appealing to play. I don't think it had anything to do with evades.

[Shao.7236]

@Azure The Heartless.3261Without Might Makes Right to benefit from the good old Might from Magebane Tether and Reckless Dodge damage was, you cut the sustain and damage nearly by 50%

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Shao.7236 said:@Azure The Heartless.3261Without Might Makes Right to benefit from the good old Might from Magebane Tether and Reckless Dodge damage was, you cut the sustain and damage nearly by 50%

Oh kitten that's right. MMR does give endurance.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Shao.7236 said:@Azure The Heartless.3261Without Might Makes Right to benefit from the good old Might from Magebane Tether and Reckless Dodge damage was, you cut the sustain and damage nearly by 50%

Sustain aint the issue. Warrior doesnt get killed outside of +1s (just like literally every class), and in +1s he dies either way. The issue is that damage in general is too low, and warriors is even lower than that. Why play a sidenoder without knockbacks?

[Shao.7236]

@UNOwen.7132 Hammer can hit just as hard as GS in 1v1 with a different requirement. Possible 6k every so often which is comparably sooner than Ranger GS 2, that's bad damage? Warrior has no shortage of knockbacks or stability either, why is it all slipped under the rug?

[UNOwen.7132]

@Shao.7236 said:@UNOwen.7132 Hammer can hit just as hard as GS in 1v1 with a different requirement. Possible 6k every so often which is comparably sooner than Ranger GS 2, that's bad damage? Warrior has no shortage of knockbacks or stability either, why is it all slipped under the rug?

Fierce blow does not hit anywhere close to 6k. Its what, 1.82 scaling? Its closer to 5k tops, and usually around 4k. If you hit it on a ccd target. Which is the issue. You dont get them ccd very often. Warrior doesnt have good knockbacks. Staggering Blow is slow and barely knocks back. Kick is slightly better but requires a full utility. Just aint good. And Stability doesnt really help you. They can just wait it out, theyre under no time pressure whatsoever.

[otto.5684]

Did it shift the meta a bit? Maybe, maybe not. Did the patch change that sPvP is a CC infested, AOE mash of bunkers? No, and thus it is as irrelevant as it gets.

[Shao.7236]

@"UNOwen.7132" It hits hard, what's the point of even arguing. https://gyazo.com/79dd43d2051c3b4c32ac23205677b423

Just like you can wait out there's, just like you can dodge their knockbacks. Normal gameplay.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Shao.7236 said:@"UNOwen.7132" It hits hard, what's the point of even arguing. https://gyazo.com/79dd43d2051c3b4c32ac23205677b423

On a glass ele. With almost 21 stacks of might, which required the ele to get hit by CC and then just lie there doing nothing, meaning theyre out of defenses. Try the same thing againt a Holo or a Ranger.

Just like you can wait out there's, just like you can dodge their knockbacks. Normal gameplay.

They dont need stability to deal with your knockbacks. Theyre slow. As for dodging theirs, sure, most of them you can. But then youre just in a deadlock, and theyre more likely to knock you back than vice versa. While you set up +1s worse. And with your build, you lack the mobility to roam around. Why ever pick warrior over Ranger/Rev/Holo?

[Dantheman.3589]

Ranger doesn’t even win 1v1s with knock back anymore. It’s mostly high pressure and sustain. You only have 1 knock back with just helps with burst, though u can take the immob elite to help make that better, but why take that- it’s just been considered a worse version of sotp since forever.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:Ranger doesn’t even win 1v1s with knock back anymore. It’s mostly high pressure and sustain. You only have 1 knock back with just helps with burst, though u can take the immob elite to help make that better, but why take that- it’s just been considered a worse version of sotp since forever.

Nobody wins 1v1s. Your goal is just to knock them off the point to progress the objective.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Ranger doesn’t even win 1v1s with knock back anymore. It’s mostly high pressure and sustain. You only have 1 knock back with just helps with burst, though u can take the immob elite to help make that better, but why take that- it’s just been considered a worse version of sotp since forever.

Nobody wins 1v1s. Your goal is just to knock them off the point to progress the objective.

Nope generally you dps players off node. Ranger and holo match ups are to kill the other. Ranger and holo also go for kills on condi revs, but will only really get it by out playing the condi rev. There are other good 1v1s rn - like core guard and dh that solely aim at putting symbols for pressure on node and can beat rangers, Holos and condi revs that way in 1v1s. There’s also a variant of lightning rod that goes for kills on ranger, condi rev and guard, but dies to holo usually.Almost no 1v1ers rn are about knockback, becuz kills or winning node is common through damage and sustain

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Ranger doesn’t even win 1v1s with knock back anymore. It’s mostly high pressure and sustain. You only have 1 knock back with just helps with burst, though u can take the immob elite to help make that better, but why take that- it’s just been considered a worse version of sotp since forever.

Nobody wins 1v1s. Your goal is just to knock them off the point to progress the objective.

Nope generally you dps players off node. Ranger and holo match ups are to kill the other. Ranger and holo also go for kills on condi revs, but will only really get it by out playing the condi rev. There are other good 1v1s rn - like core guard and dh that solely aim at putting symbols for pressure on node and can beat rangers, Holos and condi revs that way in 1v1s. There’s also a variant of lightning rod that goes for kills on ranger, condi rev and guard, but dies to holo usually.

They arent. They cant kill each other, and if theyre good, they know that. Thats why in MOTA, when faced with a situation in which there was no +1 coming, and knockbacks were irrelevant (fighting around tranquility), a ranger and a holo realised that fighting is 100% pointless, and just started synchronised dancing. Because they know neither of them would ever kill the other. Ranger and Holo matchups are to knock the other off the point and wait for a +1. They dont kill each other, damage just isnt there.

Almost no 1v1ers rn are about knockback, becuz kills or winning node is common through damage and sustain

All of them are. Thats why its Ranger, Holo and Rev. Kills or winning node only happens through +1s, but for that it doesnt matter what class you play, so you pick yours for the other situations.

[Lighter.5631]

main meta is still the same

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Ranger doesn’t even win 1v1s with knock back anymore. It’s mostly high pressure and sustain. You only have 1 knock back with just helps with burst, though u can take the immob elite to help make that better, but why take that- it’s just been considered a worse version of sotp since forever.

Nobody wins 1v1s. Your goal is just to knock them off the point to progress the objective.

Nope generally you dps players off node. Ranger and holo match ups are to kill the other. Ranger and holo also go for kills on condi revs, but will only really get it by out playing the condi rev. There are other good 1v1s rn - like core guard and dh that solely aim at putting symbols for pressure on node and can beat rangers, Holos and condi revs that way in 1v1s. There’s also a variant of lightning rod that goes for kills on ranger, condi rev and guard, but dies to holo usually.

They arent. They cant kill each other, and if theyre good, they know that. Thats why in MOTA, when faced with a situation in which there was no +1 coming, and knockbacks were irrelevant (fighting around tranquility), a ranger and a holo realised that fighting is 100% pointless, and just started synchronised dancing. Because they know neither of them would ever kill the other. Ranger and Holo matchups are to knock the other off the point and wait for a +1. They dont kill each other, damage just isnt there.

Almost no 1v1ers rn are about knockback, becuz kills or winning node is common through damage and sustain

All of them are. Thats why its Ranger, Holo and Rev. Kills or winning node

only

happens through +1s, but for that it doesnt matter what class you play, so you pick yours for the other situations.

Nah your wrong the only build rn that’s about knock back is bunker soulbeast with long bow and great sword - which is a meme that sees about zero play rn. Holo has 1 knockback, yet is all about damage and actually kiting and resustaining cuz it loses node and rev has 1 knockback which is only for the dodge and knocking back a thief that pluses it.On the topic of ranger- what everyone plays is mostly valk axe core or sometimes demo and/or even with nature magic on core, but in the end it’s almost all about damage. It has one knockback also. As I pointed out before the only thing that’s about knock back is 1 ranger build which is for the most part a meme against anything but condi rev with a condi thief to plus them.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Ranger doesn’t even win 1v1s with knock back anymore. It’s mostly high pressure and sustain. You only have 1 knock back with just helps with burst, though u can take the immob elite to help make that better, but why take that- it’s just been considered a worse version of sotp since forever.

Nobody wins 1v1s. Your goal is just to knock them off the point to progress the objective.

Nope generally you dps players off node. Ranger and holo match ups are to kill the other. Ranger and holo also go for kills on condi revs, but will only really get it by out playing the condi rev. There are other good 1v1s rn - like core guard and dh that solely aim at putting symbols for pressure on node and can beat rangers, Holos and condi revs that way in 1v1s. There’s also a variant of lightning rod that goes for kills on ranger, condi rev and guard, but dies to holo usually.

They arent. They cant kill each other, and if theyre good, they know that. Thats why in MOTA, when faced with a situation in which there was no +1 coming, and knockbacks were irrelevant (fighting around tranquility), a ranger and a holo realised that fighting is 100% pointless, and just started synchronised dancing. Because they know neither of them would ever kill the other. Ranger and Holo matchups are to knock the other off the point and wait for a +1. They dont kill each other, damage just isnt there.

Almost no 1v1ers rn are about knockback, becuz kills or winning node is common through damage and sustain

All of them are. Thats why its Ranger, Holo and Rev. Kills or winning node

only

happens through +1s, but for that it doesnt matter what class you play, so you pick yours for the other situations.

Nah your wrong the only build rn that’s about knock back is bunker soulbeast with long bow and great sword - which is a meme that sees about zero play rn. Holo has 1 knockback, yet is all about damage and actually kiting and resustaining cuz it loses node and rev has 1 knockback which is only for the dodge and knocking back a thief that pluses it.

1 knockback is all you need. Mind you most of the time fights just stall out completely until you get a +1, but thats how sidenoding goes. You dont kill the enemy, you just play pool noodle fight til a +1 arrives. Holo is the same as others, doesnt die, has a knockback. It just sets up +1s better.

On the topic of ranger- what everyone plays is mostly valk axe core or sometimes demo and/or even with nature magic on core, but in the end it’s almost all about damage. It has one knockback also. As I pointed out before the only thing that’s about knock back is 1 ranger build which is for the most part a meme against anything but condi rev with a condi thief to plus them.

One knockback is, again, all you need. Theyre about damage in the sense that going for sustain is pointless when you cant die anyway, and damage at least sets up +1s better. But winning a 1v1 doesnt happen. Thats why they synchronised their dancing instead of fighting.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Ranger doesn’t even win 1v1s with knock back anymore. It’s mostly high pressure and sustain. You only have 1 knock back with just helps with burst, though u can take the immob elite to help make that better, but why take that- it’s just been considered a worse version of sotp since forever.

Nobody wins 1v1s. Your goal is just to knock them off the point to progress the objective.

Nope generally you dps players off node. Ranger and holo match ups are to kill the other. Ranger and holo also go for kills on condi revs, but will only really get it by out playing the condi rev. There are other good 1v1s rn - like core guard and dh that solely aim at putting symbols for pressure on node and can beat rangers, Holos and condi revs that way in 1v1s. There’s also a variant of lightning rod that goes for kills on ranger, condi rev and guard, but dies to holo usually.

They arent. They cant kill each other, and if theyre good, they know that. Thats why in MOTA, when faced with a situation in which there was no +1 coming, and knockbacks were irrelevant (fighting around tranquility), a ranger and a holo realised that fighting is 100% pointless, and just started synchronised dancing. Because they know neither of them would ever kill the other. Ranger and Holo matchups are to knock the other off the point and wait for a +1. They dont kill each other, damage just isnt there.

Almost no 1v1ers rn are about knockback, becuz kills or winning node is common through damage and sustain

All of them are. Thats why its Ranger, Holo and Rev. Kills or winning node

only

happens through +1s, but for that it doesnt matter what class you play, so you pick yours for the other situations.

Nah your wrong the only build rn that’s about knock back is bunker soulbeast with long bow and great sword - which is a meme that sees about zero play rn. Holo has 1 knockback, yet is all about damage and actually kiting and resustaining cuz it loses node and rev has 1 knockback which is only for the dodge and knocking back a thief that pluses it.

1 knockback is all you need. Mind you most of the time fights just stall out completely until you get a +1, but thats how sidenoding goes. You dont kill the enemy, you just play pool noodle fight til a +1 arrives. Holo is the same as others, doesnt die, has a knockback. It just sets up +1s better.

On the topic of ranger- what everyone plays is mostly valk axe core or sometimes demo and/or even with nature magic on core, but in the end it’s almost all about damage. It has one knockback also. As I pointed out before the only thing that’s about knock back is 1 ranger build which is for the most part a meme against anything but condi rev with a condi thief to plus them.

One knockback is, again, all you need. Theyre about damage in the sense that going for sustain is pointless when you cant die anyway, and damage at least sets up +1s better. But winning a 1v1 doesnt happen. Thats why they synchronised their dancing instead of fighting.

Considering that holo is a full zerk build that’s almost all for damaged and can ezily be pressured off node by the damage from multiple 1v1ers I’d say you are completely wrong.Your quiet a few months out of date- 1v1s haven’t been about knockbacks since prot holo and knights amulet were a thing.