Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Help me to understand weaver


jaif.3518

Recommended Posts

I know what the mechanics are (for the most part), but I'm missing the implications. I feel like that all that's happened is that my skills are now more complicated to use than before.

Can someone help me grasp what I'm missing here? This is not some back-handed complaint or troll - I see videos, but I'm missing what they are doing that is so much better than vanilla elementalist.

If it helps, I usually play a staff weaver in WvW, dropping water where told, and enjoying that moment where I cycle through the elements dropping every AoE that i can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weaver`s idea is that you lose the ability to do full attune swap and speed of attune swapping (to some extent, you can't swap more than once in a short span, but you have a lower CD to go back to the attunement you just left), in favor of the possibility to combo your skills (1 and 2 and 4 and 5) plus getting a new skill called Dual Skill with the combination of the two elements you are wielding.

In theory, the goal of this is to give you more flexible skill weapon bar and an element of "surprise" - you can, for example, keep MH Fire or Air for more damage and OH Water or Earth for defense, thus enjoying "the best of both worlds" (if you swap attunements correctly) while your enemy only knows what you are wielding MH.

However, you lose the quick reaction that core ele has to a more focused role (swapping to DPS, Heal, Defense depending on what you need at the time), as well as run the risk of being "stuck" on your attunements more (e.g., Chill was already nasty on the core ele, now it is much stronger against a Weaver).

Dual skills offer you somewhat of a mix of what the two attunements you have on do (e.g., Fire and Air give the best damage one).

The feeling of "what is so different from core ele" is perfectly valid because Weaver offers the same style of skills, without any new tools / utility, so you are playing pretty much with equal tools of the core ele, except for the changes above.

Now, for what it has that makes it more interesting than core / vanilla ele? DPS in the form of the majority of the traits being geared towards stats that buff your DPS (either more power, crit chance, ferocity or %damage buffs) - literally 4 out of the total 5 traits that are picked 99% of the time are pure stat DPS buffs. (not counting Adept Minor because it just the class mechanic change).

However, this DPS increase will depend on your playstyle, weapon and game mode as, in most cases, the DPS that Weaver brings is not enough to compensate for the loss on the versatility and reaction times of the core ele. (E.g., if you pick Weaver you take longer to cast water fields for your allies in a Zerg WvW scenario, as well as to get that Meteor Shower up).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you play D/D core d/d fire ele is better than weaver in team fights or 1v1. You can demand prot and clears in .5 of second or less. Sword Weaver has some simple cc in team fights that people think its ok. It's a dumb down rotation spammer that can condi clear spam on 1 button demand better than core dagger. It has lower dps when not spamming the few air spikes it has. Sword water 2 is your get out of jail free card. Staff weaver is ok in zerg fights but the real on trick pony spammer is Scepter Weaver.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArYnk4C9MgdOAmMA8RgFJAT4OGAqgFPhW4R4eRXpv0A-jVSAAB8phINlffv/AAHIA+1D4xJAQNlgD8AAwU9nAAHAO/8zP/8zr5n38zb+5nfepAMToF-wThis on trick pony build has no clears limited sustain. You just unload or snare and dps from distance. Great to burst down team fights that have Scourages.

AKA the on trick pony side kick build. tag along with an SB or a direct attacker. ANd just cheeese people with ridiculous damage. USE scholar runes if you feel luck. Make sure you have an escape route nailed or team mates in wvw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@jaif.3518 said:I know what the mechanics are (for the most part), but I'm missing the implications. I feel like that all that's happened is that my skills are now more complicated to use than before.

No, you're not missing anything. The weaver mechanic is pure sh** and sword is useless. Play tempest or core ele.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to be clear, I did not intend this as a troll.

I was attracted to deadeye at first, and I tried many builds and slowly figured things out, but it was always clear to me what I was doing, and just a series of tweaks to my skills and build to get there.

But with weaver, I'm lost. As a staff ele in WvW, I'm used to having water & air 5 (water field and lightning field) 2 clicks away at all times. Now it's 1-3 clicks away, depending where i'm at in my weave. The trade off is having more reliable spamming of 2 & 3 in each element, but I'm missing what that buys me. I can see the point above ("biggest dps on the target test golem"), as some of those 3 skills pack a punch (e.g. piledriver), but that doesn't seem practical in most settings.

It's not the first time I've missed the point, though, so I thought I'd ask.

-Jeff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Waisenpai.6028 said:If you play D/D core d/d fire ele is better than weaver in team fights or 1v1. You can demand prot and clears in .5 of second or less. Sword Weaver has some simple cc in team fights that people think its ok. It's a kitten down rotation spammer that can condi clear spam on 1 button demand better than core dagger. It has lower dps when not spamming the few air spikes it has. Sword water 2 is your get out of jail free card. Staff weaver is ok in zerg fights but the real on trick pony spammer is Scepter Weaver.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJArYnk4C9MgdOAmMA8RgFJAT4OGAqgFPhW4R4eRXpv0A-jVSAAB8phINlffv/AAHIA+1D4xJAQNlgD8AAwU9nAAHAO/8zP/8zr5n38zb+5nfepAMToF-wThis on trick pony build has no clears limited sustain. You just unload or snare and dps from distance. Great to burst down team fights that have Scourages.

AKA the on trick pony side kick build. tag along with an SB or a direct attacker. ANd just cheeese people with ridiculous damage. USE scholar runes if you feel luck. Make sure you have an escape route nailed or team mates in wvw.

I have one question about this build, the 6th trait of the rune of resistance "when you activate a signet skills you gain aegis", but you're not running any signet skills... Am I missing something? (Probably I am missing something, or the rune is equipped for traits 1 to 5). Ty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@jaif.3518 said:I know what the mechanics are (for the most part), but I'm missing the implications. I feel like that all that's happened is that my skills are now more complicated to use than before.

Can someone help me grasp what I'm missing here? This is not some back-handed complaint or troll - I see videos, but I'm missing what they are doing that is so much better than vanilla elementalist.

If it helps, I usually play a staff weaver in WvW, dropping water where told, and enjoying that moment where I cycle through the elements dropping every AoE that i can.

It's a "work really hard for about the same payoff as before" kind of elite profession :). Seriously tho, if you like attunement switching then Weaver is probably for you, but don't expect it to blow anybody's socks off.

The dual skills are meh, but do add some additional AoE options for Staff Weaver in WvW. Some of the traits make the dual skills a little more interesting.

My favorite combination right now is water/arcane/weaver for two reasons:

  1. Every attunement switch grants a boon, and the attunements are every 3.5s instead of 4.0s.
  2. It sheds conditions like water (swiftness grants regen, and regen removes a condition).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I main core s/d thief and I thought I'd try out the weaver. I am geard for core d/d ele.. (beserker/healing power armour with cele Trinks and marurder weapons) and noticed that the dmg is it a miss, it's a lot trickier to pull of somw combo feilds then before but I guess it's a case of learning rotations all over again. Still, not really impressed with sword weaver, will most likely go back to core ele again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@jaif.3518 said:I want to be clear, I did not intend this as a troll.

I was attracted to deadeye at first, and I tried many builds and slowly figured things out, but it was always clear to me what I was doing, and just a series of tweaks to my skills and build to get there.

But with weaver, I'm lost. As a staff ele in WvW, I'm used to having water & air 5 (water field and lightning field) 2 clicks away at all times. Now it's 1-3 clicks away, depending where i'm at in my weave. The trade off is having more reliable spamming of 2 & 3 in each element, but I'm missing what that buys me. I can see the point above ("biggest dps on the target test golem"), as some of those 3 skills pack a punch (e.g. piledriver), but that doesn't seem practical in most settings.

It's not the first time I've missed the point, though, so I thought I'd ask.

-Jeff

That's basically it - Weaver trades some versatility for extra damage. For a backline staff ele,that is. It's a fair trade. You can mostly cycle Earth-Fire-Fire-Earth-Fire-Fire and spam AOEs. You still have access to the waters and static, but you need to plan ahead in order to reach them efficiently. But it's mostly about embracing your new role as a dps and leaving the job of cc/utility to others. In a sense, it's bringing the pve ele to wvw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I main core s/d thief and I thought I'd try out the weaver. I am geard for core d/d ele.. (beserker/healing power armour with cele Trinks and marurder weapons) and noticed that the dmg is it a miss, it's a lot trickier to pull of somw combo feilds then before but I guess it's a case of learning rotations all over again. Still, not really impressed with sword weaver, will most likely go back to core ele again.

You don't do any damage because you're using the wrong gear. Weaver is meant for condi gear.This is one of the issues that the majority of elis that tried weaver have, they didn't update their gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MrRay.3027 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I main core s/d thief and I thought I'd try out the weaver. I am geard for core d/d ele.. (beserker/healing power armour with cele Trinks and marurder weapons) and noticed that the dmg is it a miss, it's a lot trickier to pull of somw combo feilds then before but I guess it's a case of learning rotations all over again. Still, not really impressed with sword weaver, will most likely go back to core ele again.

You don't do any damage because you're using the wrong gear. Weaver is meant for condi gear.This is one of the issues that the majority of elis that tried weaver have, they didn't update their gear.

Really depends on your choice of weapon. With Sword or Dagger? Yeah, sure, go condi or grieving. With staff? Berserker is the only way to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For wvw staff on zerg, weaver is better than tempest or core.

Weaver have more CC (dual air+eart and watter+earth) and the buff of single attuned (I only use it on fire, were the real dps is) is huge. (Hits of +15k on meteor shower) due the high ferocity (+245% damage on crit and +27% extra damage)

With the sigil of Frenzy (its OP for this build) you dont suffer too much on you rotations and gain more damage and CC than tempest or core and if you need to spike CC or damage just use your elite and with the alacrity of the sigil of frency your attunemen swap is 1s.

U only need to take more care about your rotations and the flow of the battle (weaver is less reactive than tempest o clasic) to be only one step behind of what U need. So, you can keep your role of CC and utility with an smart rotation but doing more damage than before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Feanor.2358 said:

@MrRay.3027 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I main core s/d thief and I thought I'd try out the weaver. I am geard for core d/d ele.. (beserker/healing power armour with cele Trinks and marurder weapons) and noticed that the dmg is it a miss, it's a lot trickier to pull of somw combo feilds then before but I guess it's a case of learning rotations all over again. Still, not really impressed with sword weaver, will most likely go back to core ele again.

You don't do any damage because you're using the wrong gear. Weaver is meant for condi gear.This is one of the issues that the majority of elis that tried weaver have, they didn't update their gear.

Really depends on your choice of weapon. With Sword or Dagger? Yeah, sure, go condi or grieving. With staff? Berserker is the only way to go.

Yes, staff and scepter need a power gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ApaWanka.2698 said:Hits of +15k on meteor shower due the high ferocity (+245% damage on crit and +27% extra damage)

I am guessing you mean that 15k per meteor spread out between 3 targets, because I run full marauder when using Staff Weaver just for kicks and I am hitting each target for ~5k with each meteor.

Could probably push it to 6k on very glassy opponents if I went scholar runes - but even so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Azel.4786 said:

@ApaWanka.2698 said:Hits of +15k on meteor shower due the high ferocity (+245% damage on crit and +27% extra damage)

I am guessing you mean that 15k per meteor spread out between 3 targets, because I run full marauder when using Staff Weaver just for kicks and I am hitting each target for ~5k with each meteor.

Could probably push it to 6k on very glassy opponents if I went scholar runes - but even so.

Nah, it's not spread, it's how much damage you deal to each target. When you stack enough buffs and multipliers in your favor it can reach that high. Elements of Rage, Scholar, Bolt to the Heart, Tempest Defence, 25 might... it really adds up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Feanor.2358 said:Nah, it's not spread, it's how much damage you deal to each target. When you stack enough buffs and multipliers in your favor it can reach that high. Elements of Rage, Scholar, Bolt to the Heart, Tempest Defence, 25 might... it really adds up.

Wait, 15k per meteor per target?

So if the target is hit 4-5 times you are telling me you pull 60k or 75k per meteor shower on each target.

That is not possible - tell me what you are running because the only thing I am missing are scholar runes and I run already Fire / Air / Weaver to get all damage traits up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I said, you need to stack a lot of multipliers to make that happen. Just as an illustration, if you're hitting a target which isn't stunned/etc and isn't below 50% hp you're missing on 44% extra damage. But it is certainly possible. MS can produce over 200k damage on a single large target if I recall correctly, depending on the number of hits and the RNG for each hit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But you have to average those 15k hits with the time you spend running back from spawn because you died when a deadeye looked at you ;).

Glass builds in WvW are just that, glass. I constantly hear one guild mate brag about his big DPS in certain fights. Next fight he's running back from spawn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@juno.1840 said:But you have to average those 15k hits with the time you spend running back from spawn because you died when a deadeye looked at you ;).

Glass builds in WvW are just that, glass. I constantly hear one guild mate brag about his big DPS in certain fights. Next fight he's running back from spawn.

I think the WvW players consistently underestimate glass builds in the context of large-scale combat. Sure, they are absolute trash in roaming and they are suboptimal in GvG scenarios, assuming smaller groups. But when you have 30+ on each side, it's all about positioning. If you get downed, it's because you're out of position. It doesn't really matter if you're full glass, cele, or even full minstrel. If you get caught in the impact zone, you die.

Because of that, it can make sense to run full glass builds. You're not really losing anything, just maximizing your own impact. Mind you, having defensive skills and utilities can make the difference. I run Lightning Flash, Armor of Earth and Mist Form all the time. Because they keep me alive. Gear stats do not. So I use them to another effect.

Of course, there are degrees to that. There are situations where you're caught by just enough damage to get you down and could have gotten away running cele. But it's still a positional mistake on your part. I prefer to learn from my mistakes and correct them rather than change my gear so I can get away with them. Plus, I'm too lazy to swap gear back and forth constantly. ;) But in the end, it's what makes me consistently be one of the top damage dealers across the whole squad. Don't get me wrong - choosing the opposite is just as valid. It's a matter of personal preference. All I'm saying is "You can make it work. Just because it's glass doesn't mean it's worthless".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jski.6180 said:Its a pve dps class trying to play it in any other type of game or other type of build is a waist of time.

Yeah.

First off I'm someone who almost always plays Support or Tanky builds.

This is the first time I've gone for a DPS focused spec... and oddly enough on the class that previously was all about various support builds.

I find the weaver very strong in open world PvE and Dungeons. A little tricky on story missions because I have to get used to dodging more when before I was on things that could just stand there and self-heal or shake off the damage...

But I'm using a Sword/Dagger weaver with just over 1000 condition damage, 20% condition duration, and from 1929 to 2209 'Power' depending on whether or not I'm in Fire on my first, second, or no attunement. (Crit of 71%). It's weird playing a class that can melt right through things but likewise gets melted away easily if I fail to keep up my game. But it's rather fun.

I don't really enjoy PvP, so for me; while my other characters remain more tanky or support focused, this is the perfect DPS option.

I predict that with Ascended gear and more focus on Condition damage than I have, this class would be in good demand for the DPS side of high level fractals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jski.6180 said:Its a pve dps class trying to play it in any other type of game or other type of build is a waist of time.

Best way to think about is weaver dose great dmg vs things with out brains. Out side of that good luck landing any thing of worth.

If being top dps in a full 50-man squad is a waste of time to you - OK. I find it both very efficient and incredibly fun to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jski.6180 said:Its a pve dps class trying to play it in any other type of game or other type of build is a waist of time.

Best way to think about is weaver dose great dmg vs things with out brains. Out side of that good luck landing any thing of worth.

World vs World has a much higher density of things without brains than even pve. Weaver does great damage there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...