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Does it also make you mad that bag slots are soul bound vs account bound?


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@kharmin.7683 said:

@Taril.8619 said:I'm not sure if it would necessarily pose a large problem for them to compensate for people who have bought bag slot expansions on multiple characters.

You must have missed the EU server downtime compensation threads a little while back then.

No, I did not miss them.

However, they did provide compensation as I mentioned above. 1000 gems, 1000 gem value mount skin and 300 gem value bonfires.

If it was a large problem to compensate people for redundancy in gem purchases, they wouldn't have given out gems and gemstore items for non-gem purchase related issues (To be fair, after the rollback was rolled back, people in EU server chat were hoping for/expecting just getting a booster. The forums being the forums started being a vocal minority like always)

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It doesn't make me mad, but it does make me not buy them. I never know when my current favorite profession is going to get tweaked in a way that is going to make me less interested in playing them,

Hey all,I've been playing on and off again since launch but I'm new to the forums, so here goes.... Am I crazy to think bag slots should be account bound vs soul bound?I feel like I spent a decent amo

I think not selling them accountwide is stupid. But I managed to survive without them so far, and I will probably continue to do so. I would buy one or 2 if it would unlock a slot for the whole accoun

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

You don't know that making inventory expansion slots account bound would reduce revenue, you suspect that it might, but you don't have any data to support that assertion. It is very possible that many people would purchase more inventory slots if they could use them on all of their characters.

At this late date, whether more people would buy account-wide bag upgrades is a moot point. The real issue from ANet's point of view would be the demands for compensation from all of the players who did buy the character-bound slots.

Still waiting for my compensation from the making the unlimited gathering tools account bound. I had 8 sets before they changed them.

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@kratan.4619 said:Still waiting for my compensation from the making the unlimited gathering tools account bound. I had 8 sets before they changed them.And if bag slots were made account bound, they would likely do the same thing - not compensate players that had them for more than 30 days, on the basis that they got value out of them before the change. If you bought it right before the change, you could do a support ticket and get refunded the money.So there is precedent for Anet changing this, and how they handled it.

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That's why I don't buy them (also looking at you, build/gear template slots), I'd rather spend more gold on making 32 slots bag & it's more flexible to switch main character later on, I hate to be locked with options: ofcoz one could argue that just spend more gems to unlock slots on the toon I switched to, but then the slots that I've already paid for became wasteful as I don't use it anymore. If I've more gems I'd rather spend on something more bang for bucks like account wide unlock such as bank tabs or shared inventory slots.

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@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

You don't know that making inventory expansion slots account bound would reduce revenue, you suspect that it might, but you don't have any data to support that assertion. It is very possible that many people would purchase more inventory slots if they could use them on all of their characters.

At this late date, whether more people would buy account-wide bag upgrades is a moot point. The real issue from ANet's point of view would be the demands for compensation from all of the players who did buy the character-bound slots.

I think one way to fix this is they add more available slot to unlock, keeping the old slots as character wide, but the new extra slots as account wide. You now have both systems/options coexisting, though it might make things more complicated just like the 3-colours crystal system for strike mission, but it will save them having to refund the players who already bought the character wide bag slots.

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Same as with all their Account upgrades.I buy the ones I really NEED when they are discounted for gold or I stay away from them altogether.Probably would buy then all if they were cheaper. Don't really care if they are accbound or soulbound. But those prices are just too high.

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When I first bought bag slots I thought it was an account thing.  So disappointed when I found out it was per character.  Constantly running out of bag space hurts the game because it's discouraging.  Like someone already mentioned, it's too expensive to max out every characters at 400 gems per slot.  The "Devs" made sure to place lots of junk in your bags too, so you constantly have to toss something out.  This problem holds the game back from having a well polished feel (along with some other issues).

 

Increasing item stacks from 250 to 999, would greatly help with overall storage issues.  I put money into the game already so let me enjoy the game...hard to do that while constantly bothered with bag space.  It's bad enough legendaries are tied to WvW/PvP and Raids.  That's the same mistake "WOW" made and it did them in, in the end.

 

Seriously....  400 gems per slot, that needs to be account wide.

 

And why is it at level 80...deep into the game...  Players are still getting junk items?  At some point, a player should only get items that can be converted into gold but sadly, we keep getting junk from in-game chests...which makes no sense at all.  This is why so many players complain about the quality of in-game loot and they are right.

 

I understand the "Devs" want to cut your gold making chances in order to force you to buy gold but here's the thing...  It's not necessary!  Players will put money into the game anyway because they'll see something from the "cash shop" that just catches their eye and they'll want it.  No need to force or steer us towards the "cash shop", we'll get there on our own.

 

Get rid of the junk items at level 80...  Get rid of the cool downs on crafted/special items (E.g. charged quartz crystals).  It takes long enough to do anything in GW2 so why make it even longer with these crafted item cool downs which makes no sense and serves no purpose, other than further controlling gold gains with major gold sinks and limiting items over a period of time...like those charged quartz crystals.

 

All of that kills the game.  It's just a bunch of mess taken from pass MMORPGS and just like it served no purpose on those MMOs, it serves no purpose on GW2.

 

It's good to just do things different and not copy everything from past titles.

 

 

 

Forgive me for any "typos."

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Horace.3184 said:

When I first bought bag slots I thought it was an account thing.  So disappointed when I found out it was per character.  Constantly running out of bag space hurts the game because it's discouraging.  Like someone already mentioned, it's too expensive to max out every characters at 400 gems per slot.  The "Devs" made sure to place lots of junk in your bags too, so you constantly have to toss something out.  This problem holds the game back from having a well polished feel (along with some other issues).

 

Increasing item stacks from 250 to 999, would greatly help with overall storage issues.  I put money into the game already so let me enjoy the game...hard to do that while constantly bothered with bag space.  It's bad enough legendaries are tied to WvW/PvP and Raids.  That's the same mistake "WOW" made and it did them in, in the end.

 

Seriously....  400 gems per slot, that needs to be account wide.

 

And why is it at level 80...deep into the game...  Players are still getting junk items?  At some point, a player should only get items that can be converted into gold but sadly, we keep getting junk from in-game chests...which makes no sense at all.  This is why so many players complain about the quality of in-game loot and they are right.

 

I understand the "Devs" want to cut your gold making chances in order to force you to buy gold but here's the thing...  It's not necessary!  Players will put money into the game anyway because they'll see something from the "cash shop" that just catches their eye and they'll want it.  No need to force or steer us towards the "cash shop", we'll get there on our own.

 

Get rid of the junk items at level 80...  Get rid of the cool downs on crafted/special items (E.g. charged quartz crystals).  It takes long enough to do anything in GW2 so why make it even longer with these crafted item cool downs which makes no sense and serves no purpose, other than further controlling gold gains with major gold sinks and limiting items over a period of time...like those charged quartz crystals.

 

All of that kills the game.  It's just a bunch of mess taken from pass MMORPGS and just like it served no purpose on those MMOs, it serves no purpose on GW2.

 

It's good to just do things different and not copy everything from past titles.

 

 

 

Forgive me for any "typos."

 

 

 

 

 

Why are you opening the bags right away?

Instead of saving it for when your close to a merchant were you can sell junk.

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I think not selling them accountwide is stupid. But I managed to survive without them so far, and I will probably continue to do so. I would buy one or 2 if it would unlock a slot for the whole account, just out of convienence, but the way it currently is I rather play the inventory-minigame than wasting gems on this.

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I understand both sides concerning the issue of bag slot expansions, and I'm not sure which one should prevail over the other.

 

From a business standpoint, Bag slot expansions that unlock a slot on every character currently existing and will ever be created is poor financial decision making.  All other monetization of inventory slots are finite.  To sell Bag slot expansions on an account wide basis scales far too much against the firm's finances.  Hence, it is financially irresponsible to sell these things on an account wide basis.

From the other side, the game is designed to be alt friendly.  Convenience items we purchase on the gem store are usable across all characters (with the exception of bag slots and templates).  Our purchases tend to feel like it benefits the account we own, not the individual characters that may be transient.  It doesn't seem worth it to buy a convenience item that doesn't make the account convenient, only one particular character that may not even be a permanent part of the account.

 

So the question for the second side is:

Why doesn't it feel like it's worth purchasing?

I believe the most common response, if the question is answered honestly and critically (using objective reasoning about one's own behavior), will be the price point.  It is simply too much money for something that benefits only a single character.

 

So, in short, I'm split on both sides, though I'm more inclined towards the price being far too high for what it does.  Also less inclined towards making it account wide.

Edited by Rogue.8235
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They could do something like a split approach - you could either buy a bag expansion for a single character, or there is a more pricey option that gives you a bag expansion for all characters (including ones yet to be created).

though I have a feeling that Anet would price the account wide one so expensive no one would see much value in it.

Like most things, it is finding a character pricing.  If a character bag slot expansion was 50 gems, I might consider that worth it, but I don't at 400 gems.  Yet some people must (if Anet didn't sell any, they would probably have changed it), so the difficulty is always finding the price that maximizes the amount of gems sold - it may be that 400 gems is that price point.

 

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  I love this game and I believe that the value for money is one of the best. You really get a ton of gameplay for what you paid for. Been playing since headstart and I am very satisfied.

  But I am not gonna lie, this issue is one of the few things (lootboxes, infinite gathering tools [before they became acount bound] and most recent build templates being the other ones) that rubbed me the wrong way even way back then when I purchased my first (and after realising that it was character bound, my only) bag slot.

  I am the type of person that likes to steadily upgrade their account so I choose to buy that kind of staff. Bank tabs, storage expansions, home nodes etc. But I will never be able to justify character specific unlocks for gems. It comes across as greedy and agressive.

  I know that the goal of any company is to make money but there are many ways to go about doing that, some more customer friendly than others.

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3 hours ago, Mateus.5148 said:

infinite gathering tools [before they became acount bound]

This was a massive change when it happened.  It brought these convenience items back into the realm of account-wide convenience.  However, the analysis on how to handle inventory slots is different and more complex (from a business strategy viewpoint).  Another thing to keep in mind, it's easy to reduce the base price of your product but stupidly difficult to increase it.  Once you reduce the base price of on of your products, there is almost no chance of reverting it ever again.

I still think bag slot expansions are priced too high.  It's such a marginal benefit, as is, because:

  • It is for a single character which brings the context of:
    • Characters are not a permanent part of the account
    • Upgrades for a sole character creates a sunk cost scenario for keeping the character
      • Whether or not to keep a character is now a financial decision rather than one of personal inclination or any other numerous, subjective reasons
  • Purchasing the upgrade is a convenience that will not always be accessible (if not playing on the character that uses it)
    • The limited use of the convenience further decreases its value to the player
  • Players do, at some gradient level, analyse the marginal benefit of account services before purchasing
    • The marginal benefit of convenience items increases with the number of characters
    • The marginal benefit of a convenience item for one character decreases with each additional character created
  • Pricing the single character upgrades to be marginally in-line with other convenience items will prevent buyer's remorse and other negative emotional states
    • The negative bias of human psychology has been shown to require more cognition  and attention, which leads to better memory of negative events and better learning as a result of negative events
      • Corns J. Rethinking the Negativity Bias. Rev Philos Psychol. 2018;9(3):607-625. doi: 10.1007/s13164-018-0382-7. Epub 2018 Feb 5. PMID: 30220944; PMCID: PMC6132407.
      • Retrieved from National Institute of Health - National Library of Medicine
    • The negative bias is not a spontaneous development of adult humans, but is a biological maturation developed from infancy onwards
      • Vaish A, Grossmann T, Woodward A. Not all emotions are created equal: the negativity bias in social-emotional development. Psychol Bull. 2008 May;134(3):383-403. doi: 10.1037/0033-2909.134.3.383. PMID: 18444702; PMCID: PMC3652533.
      • Retrieved from National Institute of Health - National Library of Medicine
    • Negative biases do have an empirically measurable effect on the future purchasing behaviors of adults, to which an experience of buyer's remorse is a massive detriment to future sales of a brand.
      • Cherubino P, Martinez-Levy AC, Caratù M, Cartocci G, Di Flumeri G, Modica E, Rossi D, Mancini M, Trettel A. Consumer Behaviour through the Eyes of Neurophysiological Measures: State-of-the-Art and Future Trends. Comput Intell Neurosci. 2019 Sep 18;2019:1976847. doi: 10.1155/2019/1976847. PMID: 31641346; PMCID: PMC6766676.
      • Retrieved from National Institute of Health - National Library of Medicine
      • Note, the primary statistical analysis of this study is through functional MRIs.  
  • The marginal benefit of a product within a brand line will affect the perceived value of the other products within the line
    • Positive perception of marginal cost-benefit of products in a brand line reinforces the perception for products not yet purchased or analyzed
    • Negative perception of a single products' marginal cost-benefit deteriorates the perceived value of all other products within the brand line
      • This is especially true post hoc
      • The effect of perceived value on all other products occurs regardless of prior purchases of the other products
      • A negative experience will seemingly override all prior positive exchanges in  terms of brand-line value perception
        • This is validated through neuropsychological studies such as the third one cited above
    • This is based on repeated validation through the many Harvard Business Review case studies I've done.  I can attach sources upon request

 

And this is why I conclude that the price is too high for the bag slot expansion.  I've explained before that it is financially irresponsible for ArenaNet to change the product to an account wide product.

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Some people have maxed out their 69 character slots. If a bag slot was an account wide unlock, what price in gems would be fair to potentially open another 1380 inventory slots (based on using 20 slot bags in each)?

Edited by costepj.5120
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Fair price for an account wide unlock is arguably the same as if a person only had 5 characters - in either case, only 1 character is being played at a time an getting the benefit.  Bank expansion doesn't cost more on the basis that may characters get the benefit.

Actually, another better option would be the ability to move that extra bag slot between characters -then, you could delete/make a new character and not lose that bag slot.  I often go through phases where I play one of my characters a lot, the others not that much - being able to move the bag slot to the character I'm currently playing a lot would be handy, instead of it being stuck on the initial character I gave it to - I might buy an extra bag slot in that situation.  I will almost certainly never buy a slot that goes to one specific character for the rest of time.

 

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No, Anet needs to make money somehow.  I already wonder how they keep this game alive as it is.  Do people really pay 600 gems for some crappy Finisher, or 100 gems for an experience booster? Or 80-gems for a Box o' Fun?  Whenever I get one of those I immediately put him down to free up the inventory space, no matter if there are no people around. 

 

Yes, I know, to each his own. 🙂 I will admit that I once bought  Magnus' Eye patch for a couple hundred gems, since I simply had to copy the "patched-eye look" to my light-armor wearing Necro. My ranger got his eye-patch for free as one of the GW1 rewards and I was used to the look. 

Edited by Tyncale.1629
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22 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

This was a massive change when it happened.  It brought these convenience items back into the realm of account-wide convenience.  However, the analysis on how to handle inventory slots is different and more complex (from a business strategy viewpoint).  Another thing to keep in mind, it's easy to reduce the base price of your product but stupidly difficult to increase it.  Once you reduce the base price of on of your products, there is almost no chance of reverting it ever again.

I still think bag slot expansions are priced too high.  It's such a marginal benefit, as is, because:

  • It is for a single character which brings the context of:
    • Characters are not a permanent part of the account
    • Upgrades for a sole character creates a sunk cost scenario for keeping the character
      • Whether or not to keep a character is now a financial decision rather than one of personal inclination or any other numerous, subjective reasons
  • Purchasing the upgrade is a convenience that will not always be accessible (if not playing on the character that uses it)
    • The limited use of the convenience further decreases its value to the player
  • Players do, at some gradient level, analyse the marginal benefit of account services before purchasing
    • The marginal benefit of convenience items increases with the number of characters
    • The marginal benefit of a convenience item for one character decreases with each additional character created
  • Pricing the single character upgrades to be marginally in-line with other convenience items will prevent buyer's remorse and other negative emotional states
    • The negative bias of human psychology has been shown to require more cognition  and attention, which leads to better memory of negative events and better learning as a result of negative events
      • Corns J. Rethinking the Negativity Bias. Rev Philos Psychol. 2018;9(3):607-625. doi: 10.1007/s13164-018-0382-7. Epub 2018 Feb 5. PMID: 30220944; PMCID: PMC6132407.
      • Retrieved from National Institute of Health - National Library of Medicine
    • The negative bias is not a spontaneous development of adult humans, but is a biological maturation developed from infancy onwards
      • Vaish A, Grossmann T, Woodward A. Not all emotions are created equal: the negativity bias in social-emotional development. Psychol Bull. 2008 May;134(3):383-403. doi: 10.1037/0033-2909.134.3.383. PMID: 18444702; PMCID: PMC3652533.
      • Retrieved from National Institute of Health - National Library of Medicine
    • Negative biases do have an empirically measurable effect on the future purchasing behaviors of adults, to which an experience of buyer's remorse is a massive detriment to future sales of a brand.
      • Cherubino P, Martinez-Levy AC, Caratù M, Cartocci G, Di Flumeri G, Modica E, Rossi D, Mancini M, Trettel A. Consumer Behaviour through the Eyes of Neurophysiological Measures: State-of-the-Art and Future Trends. Comput Intell Neurosci. 2019 Sep 18;2019:1976847. doi: 10.1155/2019/1976847. PMID: 31641346; PMCID: PMC6766676.
      • Retrieved from National Institute of Health - National Library of Medicine
      • Note, the primary statistical analysis of this study is through functional MRIs.  
  • The marginal benefit of a product within a brand line will affect the perceived value of the other products within the line
    • Positive perception of marginal cost-benefit of products in a brand line reinforces the perception for products not yet purchased or analyzed
    • Negative perception of a single products' marginal cost-benefit deteriorates the perceived value of all other products within the brand line
      • This is especially true post hoc
      • The effect of perceived value on all other products occurs regardless of prior purchases of the other products
      • A negative experience will seemingly override all prior positive exchanges in  terms of brand-line value perception
        • This is validated through neuropsychological studies such as the third one cited above
    • This is based on repeated validation through the many Harvard Business Review case studies I've done.  I can attach sources upon request

 

And this is why I conclude that the price is too high for the bag slot expansion.  I've explained before that it is financially irresponsible for ArenaNet to change the product to an account wide product.

OMG, the citations! 👏👏👏

If I can comment on your assumption: "Characters are not a permanent part of the account". To me, this is a subjective statement.

In my subjective opinion, characters are permanent part of the account. There is little benefit in deleting a character, especially if you haven't maxed out your character slot, for birthday gifts, mules, etc. The only characters I ever delete were Silverwastes bag opener or key farming characters.

To be fair, it is very hard to price permanent inventory slot addition even to characters created in the future. In comparison, other MMOs often use subscription pricing (sometimes on top of the baseline monthly subscription), but this won't be good for GW2 either.

Let's say if there's ever "Permanent Bag Slot Expansion Contract", how much the playerbase would want it? I'd say that it is a must have for every single player, eclipsing all other permanent contracts available.

(At the time of writing) The current exchange rate is 100 gem for 20g 4s and Permanent Bank Access Contract buy price currently is 4102g 10s. Using this pricing, Permanent Bag Slot Expansion Contract would easily be above 20,000 gems. I would even argue it is 10x more valuable.

Compared to the current Bag Slot Expansion, 400 gems for max of 5 extra bag slots per character, means that you could max out 10 characters for that 20,000 gems, possibly even more if it is more expensive.

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