Guardian doesn't apply enough Burns!!

[Fritaspt.3290]

Why dont i see a single post about this? It's just stupid to put a trap on the node, leave, and shred half of the HP to who steps on that. The most unskilled and unpunishing build atm?

[rng.1024]

Dodge onto the node.

If he's not there this doesn't put you at a disadvantage and saves your more important cooldowns.

[Fritaspt.3290]

Uau, rly helpfull advise.... Dodge...The question is that it's the most op condition in the game atm and should be a little bit nerfed for sure. In a teamfight with no cleanses, CDs, no dodges there's nothing u can do. 1v1 ok u kill them, but in teamfights it's impossible to clean/dodge so much burn.

[Bazsi.2734]

Whatever you do, do not cleanse the burning. Post on forums instead, and wait for the devs to condicleanse it for you. That way you can save your cooldowns for your next fight.

[Fritaspt.3290]

So why everyone complains about balance? Just wait for the devs to dodge/cleanse/kill, play for you.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Fritaspt.3290 said:So why everyone complains about balance? Just wait for the devs to dodge/cleanse/kill, play for you.

Because your post doesn't offer anything of substance and falls into the same category as most complaints on this subforum: something killed me, please nerf it.

[Dantheman.3589]

Actually while trap dh is kind toxic, symbol guard- usually core but sometimes dh + meditations, is probably ezier and more “meta” in that it can be used pretty well as a 1v1er

[Zephoid.4263]

You are talking about two completely different things here.Traps don't apply burning. They scale completely off of power. Traps on condi builds are generally pretty bad and aren't going to do much damage.

Guards have 2 ways to apply burning. Torch 4, and F1. Torch 4 is strong, but torch 5 is really bad and guard offhand is already competitive with both shield and focus being great. Losing 1 for torch is rough and cuts down a lot of your defensive ability. The passive torch 4 is great, but applies over time and can't be bursted.

So we are on to the only way guards apply burning reliably: F1. For every 3 hits, you get a burning stack. That means, for guard to burst you, you have to be hit ~20-30 times within a small time period. Understand, any other class applying 30 hits to you is probably going to kill you also. Stop standing in the pulsing effects and actually pay attention to what is going on. Guard's animations are distinct and only a small number of them are actually effective at applying burning outside of the fields (Sword 3rd auto chain, focus 4, torch 4).

TDLR: Burning is a side effect of you being hit a TON. Watch the ground, watch for specific attacks, play off guards having tiny HP pools and 1 invuln, and awful access to swiftness.

[otto.5684]

@Fritaspt.3290 said:Why dont i see a single post about this? It's just stupid to put a trap on the node, leave, and shred half of the HP to who steps on that. The most unskilled and unpunishing build atm?

Trap, burn, half your HP if you walk in it?! Man... I have seen clueless, but this might be the top right now. One of these days you may make it out of silver!

[Sorem.9157]

As much as I agree the burn stacking on Guardian can be potentially toxic, the build you described is a meme build at best and will not work against anyone with a clue.

Now regarding the real issue, which is burnstacking capacity, yes it can be problematic in terms of "enjoyable gameplay". It is toxic and annoying and unfun, but by no means it is overpowered. In fact, with all the nerfs Firebrand got, the really really poorly designed burn and symbol syacking mechanics are the only two things that allow Guardian as a whole to remain somewhat close to viability.

[DonNee.5128]

the ultimate downstate cleaver

[SeikeNz.3526]

the most fun build in the game, not give more laughs than putting traps on a downed and wait his mate try to ress him,ps: trapper ranger is 10x more fun, you can instakill anyone if you place the traps on the right spot

[Vancho.8750]

@"Sorem.9157" said:As much as I agree the burn stacking on Guardian can be potentially toxic, the build you described is a meme build at best and will not work against anyone with a clue.

Now regarding the real issue, which is burnstacking capacity, yes it can be problematic in terms of "enjoyable gameplay". It is toxic and annoying and unfun, but by no means it is overpowered. In fact, with all the nerfs Firebrand got, the really really poorly designed burn and symbol syacking mechanics are the only two things that allow Guardian as a whole to remain somewhat close to viability.Any burn guard build is potentially broken in a team with at least 2 other condition builds, and guess what the current side noder is a fucking condi bunker piece of aham, and scourge and core necro got an uptick of playtime, so mid and side nodes are covered by garbage all the time so its cover conditions galore.

[Sorem.9157]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@"Sorem.9157" said:As much as I agree the burn stacking on Guardian can be potentially toxic, the build you described is a meme build at best and will not work against anyone with a clue.

Now regarding the real issue, which is burnstacking capacity, yes it can be problematic in terms of "enjoyable gameplay". It is toxic and annoying and unfun, but by no means it is overpowered. In fact, with all the nerfs Firebrand got, the really really poorly designed burn and symbol syacking mechanics are the only two things that allow Guardian as a whole to remain somewhat close to viability.Any burn guard build is potentially broken in a team with at least 2 other condition builds, and guess what the current side noder is a kitten condi bunker piece of aham, and scourge and core necro got an uptick of playtime, so mid and side nodes are covered by garbage all the time so its cover conditions galore.

"Potentially broken" is not a thing. Either it is broken or it is not. I don't know your rating but on mine i definetly do not see many people playing any variation of burn guardian as a sidenoder and the few that do have little success with it, from my experience.

Guardian is designed in a way that if they want to invest into burning they have to give up quite a lot of survivability. This happens because Guardians traitlines require a lot of synergy and burn damage is spread across 3 different traitlines: Zeal, Radiance and Virtues, the first two being exclusively offensive lines and third one being an utility line. In order to pull off insane burn damage numbers OP is describing you need all 3. Zeal and Radiance have strong burn modifiers but are not great source of burning damage - the high amount of burn stacks usually require virtues, which reduces hits for Justice proc from 5 to 3 and makes it AoE. So ideally you want to at least run virtues and another line, either Zeal or Radiance, for really high burn damage. If you want to run an elite spec that forces you to NOT have either honor or valor, which are the main survivability lines so you're usually stuck with core guardian if you want to get high burn damage but, by design, core guardian has a lot of flaws, lacking a lot defensive options and having a really predictable gameplay. Either that or you need to settle for very very acceptable burn damage, by picking one of the offensive lines, one of the defensive lines and an elite spec.

All of this of course is without mentioning that Guardian inherently is a bad sidenoder due to not having mobility to disengage when necessary or the ability to survive outnumbered unless some serious outplay is made.

[Tinkerer.2167]

ranger spirit nerfed because of braindead condi design on flame spirit. dhuumfire nerfed. which was good.

guardian braindead burn application ABSOLUTELY FINE

whether its good or not is irrelevant, it's the thought process behind the design of it. it's cancer

Pepega devs

[Drachenfalke.7605]

Recently I saw a draghonhunter using traps with rune of the traps, so he could go into Stealth. Someone of my Team didn't know this trick and called the dragonhunter "cheater"….

And by the way a tip: D O D G E !!

[Arheundel.6451]

@Fritaspt.3290 said:Uau, rly helpfull advise.... Dodge...The question is that it's the most op condition in the game atm and should be a little bit nerfed for sure. In a teamfight with no cleanses, CDs, no dodges there's nothing u can do. 1v1 ok u kill them, but in teamfights it's impossible to clean/dodge so much burn.

So god forbid you die during a teamfight where lack of awareness is even more apparent ...and the devs should nerf what killed you...like MMO these days...jesus

[Shao.7236]

Problem with burn guard is Eternal Armory, they should apply the WvW values to the burns in PvP.

As for the Virtue of Justice, the passive is extremely oppressive and should be tweaked to WvW values as well, but it's activation is fair given that stats are limited compared WvW and cannot reach absurb stats combination compared the other modes, that's not saying the same for objectives though since this is conquest we are talking about, it's not like they have an issue putting AoE's on nodes and let that do the work, there is no reasons for the passive to be stronger. Add the visual mess, swords are hard to tell apart until you realize you're burning for 3k ticks.

Torch 4 is a really strong unblockable skill that happens so often but fair given how condition application works on Guardian, those nerfs wouldn't hurt the class as much and be more like fine tuning to stop some power creep that hasn't been touched in years.

[Ragnar.4257]

I mean, if it did apply enough burns, then it would be meta.

It isn't.

While it can do insane damage in certain circumstances, it is too easily hard-countered by anyone with basic awareness. Much the same as FA Ele, Berserker or Deadeye. And is also super-hard-countered by the 2 current top-tier builds. Condi-rev can just face-tank ignore it, and nade-holo can easily kite it about.

You're complaining about a C-tier build. What's next, P/P thief?