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Warrior Balance Requests Omnibus


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For Reference:

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:Just as a note that I find is important, if you have suggestions and ideas on adjustments or changes that are specifically tied to PvP, or might help better the PvP/WvW experience of Warriors; i.e things like Banner changes that will actually make them not so outdated, fast hands being baseline, offhand weapon skills being made better, etc then these things should try to be directed onto the PvP/WvW sections of the forums.

CMC just said in a State of the Game stream he did with Teapot and Angeels that it will be the best place for him to see these things so that he can parse through the suggestions and see what can be done on his end and what he might be able to forward to the skills team.

Oh and also CMC himself said, when asked what class he feels is sort of the ideal place that he would like other classes to be in regards of their power in PvP/WvW, and this is paraphrased a little "Warrior is pretty close to the ideal power level".

So, lets put together all the changes that we feel are needed for warrior in PvP/WvW into one thread here. As people make good suggestions I'll edit this main post to include them. Later on, once it is sufficiently fleshed out and in a good place the main post will be copied over to the PvP and WvW subforums. If you make a suggestion, please keep in mind how it affects warrior as a whole. Weapons, traits, skills, and mechanics are all on the table here, but also bear in mind that warrior is "close to the ideal power level" so crazy stupid buffs are not going to happen. I'll start off with Sword to get things started, if someone thinks of something better for sword that the community thinks is better then I'll replace what I have below.

WeaponsSword:

  • Flurry: Remove self-root. reduce channel time to 2s. Edit: some reasoning, the self root keeps this skills from seeing active play in competitive modes and such long duration self roots are counter productive in a game that advocates active defenses over passive defenses. Channel time reduction is more of a QOL change. Move Flurry to Slot 3, making the tier 2 burst the new slot 3 sword skill with the immobilize distributed evenly across each strike rather than one large duration.
  • Final Thrust: Make this the new burst. Foes struck above 50% take 2 stacks of bleed and the current level of damage above 50%. At Tier 1 they take 4 stacks of bleed and 150% of the listed damage, at Tier 2 they take 6 stacks of bleed and 200% of the listed damage (the current skill), at Tier 3 they take 8 stacks of bleed and 250% of the listed damage. The Tier 1 and Tier 3 values can still be debated, but I think the current skill damage numbers work at a Tier 2 burst. Bleeds above 50% were added to give a reason for a Core Condi build to use it above 50% HP if needed and still get some benefit.
  • Impale: Change cast time to 1/4s cast.
  • Rip: Adjust the hit box on this skill to make it easier to land. Impale and Rip are clunky, improving the cast time on Impale and making Rip easier to hit with would alleviate this.
  • Riposte: Change the name to Parry. Parry initiates the blocking portion of the skill as it is now, including adrenaline gain if it completes its channel, except that melee attacks will not end the block. Change the flip over skill to Riposte instead of Adrenaline Rush. Riposte does what the current attack does, but also interrupts the target via a 1/4s daze(no CC, just interrupts their action). So, Riposte becomes a 2.25s block with the option to end it early for a soft interrupt with damage. Add a 1/2 evade to the attack frames of Riposte.

Mace:

  • AA chain: Reduce the cast time of the AA chain to 2.4s
  • Skull Crack: Add a 300 range leap.
  • Tremor: Change from a projectile to a cone based AoE, 600 range.

Rifle:* Kill Shot: Remove the self root for the same reasoning as Flurry

  • Change rifle weapon skills 1-4 to 600 range cone AoEs.
  • Brutal Shot: Move the evade to before the shot is fired. Evade Forward rather than backwards.
  • Remove Kill Shot and replace with a new burst: Salt Shot: Daze (1/4s) and Blind (5s) foes in front of you and deal damage (Current Kill Shot damage levels but reduced by 2/3) based on Adrenaline spent.

Hammer:

  • Staggering Blow: Add an evade around the target prior to the knockback, foes struck are slowed for 3s.

Longbow:

  • AA: Apply 1s of burn per arrow.
  • Fan of Fire: Add 1 more arrow along with burn on it. Tighten the cone so that at least 2 arrows will hit the same target at max range if the target is in the middle of the cone. This reduces the reliance on being in melee range to maximize the skill DPS.
  • Pin Down: Remove Arcing Arrow and put Pin Down into slot 3.12s cd, 6 stacks of bleed for 6s, 1s immob.
  • Smoldering Arrow: Increase radius to 240.Add in a new LB5 based on the version that did not make release.
  • Rain of Fire: 20s CD, channel while being mobile, 12 hits with a damage interval of 0.5s burn Duration 4s/2s per hit, duration split for PvE/Comp. Essentially Barrage, but mobile during the channel and only applies burning instead of cripple.
  • Combustive Shot: Reduce the intervals to the more normal game duration of 1s. So after the initial hit the field persist for 1s per Adrenaline spent. This would not change the total damage dealt by the skill, but would a major QoL update to the skill.

Greatsword:

  • Hundred Blades: Reduce channel time to 2s.

Torch:

  • Flames of War: This skill removes Chill in addition addition to the other conditions it cleanses. Reduce the number of conditions cleansed by 1 for WvW and PvP.

Axe:

  • Whirling Axe: Remove the tooltip about increasing movement speed. Grant instead 3s of superspeed.
  • Dual Strike: Apply quickness for 0.5s per foe struck.

Dagger:

  • Bladestorm: Change this skill to an activation time of 1/2s. For 2s blades swirl around target area creating a lightening field, granting swiftness to allies and damaging foes, Foes damaged are inflicted with vulnerability. Reflects missiles. 900 range. Strike interval of 1/4s. 2 stacks of vulnerability for 10s per strike.

TraitsStrength

  • Berserker's Power: This trait now activates upon number of adrenaline bars spent regardless of if a foe is struck.
  • Body Blow: Change this trait to: CCs apply weakness (3s) and deal damage, 400/800 scaling of 1.0/0.8 (PvE/Comp). Can critical hit. Damage and weakness are applied after the CC.

Discipline

  • Double Standards: Update this trait to reflect the changes to banners below. Banners provide swiftness when summoned, increase duration to reflect that they are no longer picked up.

Arms

  • Burst Precision: Make the 100% critical chance upon using a burst persist for 2s. Alternatively make it persist based on the number of adrenaline bars spent (1s/2s/3s).
  • Sundering Bursts: Add to this trait that applying vulnerability heals you for 50/25 health (PvE/Comp).
  • Dual Wielding: Critical strikes from main hand weapons wielded in the offhand have increased effects:OH Sword: Immobilize (1s).OH Mace: Weakness (3s).OH Axe: Vulnerability (3s).OH Dagger: Remove 1 boon.

Tactics

  • Marching Orders: Reduce the CD from 15s to 5s.

    Reworked Defense

Adrenal Health moved to the Minor Master slot to enforce its place as the main traitline mechanic.Minor Master Adrenal Health : Gain health (1,490) based on adrenaline spent (max of 3 stacks). Once at max stacks, gain Barrier equal to 10% of your max health.

Major Adept 1 Defense Expert : Reflect missiles while you are blocking. Missiles you would destroy are reflected instead. Shield skills gain reduced recharge (20%). Gain pulsing adrenaline (7 adrenaline per 1s interval for 2s) after a successful reflect (12s ICD). Clarification that the CD is on the Adrenaline gain

Major Adept 2 Dogged March : Reduce the duration of movement-impeding conditions (66%) and gain a stack of Adrenal Health when affected by such conditions (10s ICD)

Major Adept 3 Cull the Weak : Critical hits have a chance of inflicting weakness (66%) (3s). Increased outgoing damage to weakened foes (7%) (5s ICD)

Minor Adept Thick Skin : Reduce incoming damage (5%).

Major Master 1 Defy Pain : Gain Protection and Retaliation for 5s when struck below the health threshold (50%) (20s ICD).

Major Master 2 Armored Attack : Gain Power based on a percentage of Toughness (10%). Gain Retaliation (4s) when you inflict weakness on a foe. Gaining Retaliation grants you might (3 stacks for 5s).

Major Master 3 Sundering Mace : CC applied lasts longer (15%). CC applied by mace skills have double duration (30%). Mace skills gain reduced recharge (20%).

Minor Grandmaster Spiked Armor : Gain Retaliation when you block or are struck by a critical hit (5s). Retaliation gives you damage reduction (10%).

Major Grandmaster 1 Last Stand : Become immune to critical hits (4 sec) when CC'd (30 sec ICD). Stances grant Vigor and Retaliation upon activation (5 sec) and have increased durations (+2 sec).

Major Grandmaster 2 Relentless Assault : Gain adrenaline when hit (+1). Gain stability for every bar of adrenaline spent (T1 Burst = 1 stability for 1s, T2 Burst = 2 stability for 2s, T3 Burst = 3 stability for 3s). Landing a successful Burst removes a condition per adrenaline bar spent.

Major Grandmaster 3 Rousing Resilience : Gain toughness (up to 1,000) (4s) and health (500) when you break out of a stun. Periodically gain stacks of adrenal health after the initial heal (1st stack after 2s, 2nd stack after 3s, 3rd stack after 4s).

Berserker:

  • Smash Brawler: Increase the number of adrenaline strikes one can hold in Berserk Mode by 5 strikes.
  • Last Blaze: When you use a Berserker skill set nearby foes on fire and gain 5/2 stacks of might for 5s (PvE/Comp).
  • Fatal Frenzy: Reduce the Toughness penalty to -150.
  • Burst of Aggression: Allow quickness and superspeed to reapply upon hitting with a Primal Burst.

Spellbreaker:

  • Loss Aversion: Add in a 20% CD reduction of Meditation skills. Increase coefficient to 0.5.
  • Break Enchantments: Increase base damage to 399, keep scaling as is.
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Update it so that your next three attacks are critical hits, each strike removes blindness prior to the hit.
  • Full Counter: Normalize the 2s daze across all game modes.
  • Revenge Counter: Full Counter now deals a 0.25s daze, grants resistance for 2s, copies up to 5 conditions to foes struck. and deals increased damage: 532 (2.4/1.0 Pve/Comp).

Skills

  • Banners: Update these to mount onto the warrior's back, update the skins if appropriate for visual cleanliness/fashion sense. Battle Standard also mounts on the warrior's back, but provides a flip over skill to rez/finish causing the banner effect to end. To summarize, banners are summoned onto the warrior's back, provide their usual benefits, and in the case of Battle Standard, it is summoned, provides buffs as normal, but the rez/finish effect is on a flipover skill that subsequently banishes the banner.
  • "Fear Me!": Make an ammo skill like the other utility shouts, CD between uses should be 35s and ammo recharge should be 60s. grant 4/2 stacks of might for 5s per foe feared (PvE/Comp), remove the weakness.
  • Blood Reckoning: Grants 10 adrenaline, with an additional 2/1 adrenaline on hit (PvE/Comp). 33% damage dealt is converted to healing. 5 second duration. Keep the same base healing and healing coefficient.

Mechanics

  • Berserk Mode: Add a F2 to exit Berserk Mode. This action consumes all remaining adrenaline. This new skill counts as a T1 burst for traits. Reduce CD of Berserk to 10s. While in Berserk Mode you have 30 Strikes of Adrenaline, Adrenaline decays at the rate of 1 strike per second, Primal Bursts no longer have cooldowns, but consume 10 strikes of adrenaline per use. Once all Adrenaline is consumed you exit Berserk Mode, exiting Berserk Mode due to loss of adrenaline will also count as a T1 Burst for traits. This is a similar functionality to every other mechanics in the game that functions as a mode.
  • Rage Skills: Wherever a rage skill increases the duration of Berserk Mode, grant that many strikes of adrenaline instead.
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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

  • Riposte: Change the name to Parry. Parry initiates the blocking portion of the skill as it is now, including adrenaline gain if it completes its channel, except that melee attacks will not end the block. Change the flip over skill to Riposte instead of Adrenaline Rush. Riposte does what the current attack does, but also interrupts the target (no CC, just interrupts their action). So, Riposte becomes a 2.25s block with the option to end it early for a soft interrupt with damage.

Wait, so riposte would be pretty much 2sec shield stance (because you need that 1/4 sec to use flip skill) + current riposte + current riposte flip skill made 'passive' + interrupt on 2 x shorter cd than shield stance?

e: spelling

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@Sobx.1758 said:

  • Riposte: Change the name to Parry. Parry initiates the blocking portion of the skill as it is now, including adrenaline gain if it completes its channel, except that melee attacks will not end the block. Change the flip over skill to Riposte instead of Adrenaline Rush. Riposte does what the current attack does, but also interrupts the target (no CC, just interrupts their action). So, Riposte becomes a 2.25s block with the option to end it early for a soft interrupt with damage.

Wait, so repost would be pretty much 2sec shield stance (because you need that 1/4 sec to use flip skill) + current reposte + current reposte flip skill made 'passive' + interrupt on 2 x shorter cd than shield stance?

A shorter but more versatile block yes. Making Riposte itself the flip skill to use actively rather than hoping someone hits you in melee makes it more versatile. You could double tap the skill to go straight to the interrupt if the foe had the unblockable buff up or switched to using a heal skill. Keep in mind the current skill is already pretty much shield stance lite but for a shorter duration. This change is ultimately to make it more versatile, and to make the damage portion something that we have active control over while keeping the flavor of actually riposting an attack.

@"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:I like that riposte/parry skill change, I think it'd make it possible to "replace" shield for condi builds. Not sure though how they'd make it an interrupt without a CC, and would that make it so you can change it to another target for the interrupt? That part might be a little broken.

Fair points, I'd point out though that things like Gunflame and Disrupting Stab have a 1/4s daze but still do their damage. The interrupt is more for keeping the riposte an actual riposte, but a 1/4s daze that keeps the damage would work as well as I think you are right that anything that interrupts in this game uses daze or one of the harder Cs to do so.

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the first thing warrior weapons need is, especially sword (main/off), is better animations. Like many old warrior weapons they are cluncky and have an huge aftercast on many abilites and that needs to be fixed before any numbers are thrown around.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:I like that riposte/parry skill change, I think it'd make it possible to "replace" shield for condi builds. Not sure though how they'd make it an interrupt without a CC, and would that make it so you can change it to another target for the interrupt? That part might be a little broken.

Fair points, I'd point out though that things like Gunflame and Disrupting Stab have a 1/4s daze but still do their damage. The interrupt is more for keeping the riposte an actual riposte, but a 1/4s daze that keeps the damage would work as well as I think you are right that anything that interrupts in this game uses daze or one of the harder Cs to do so.

One thought I have to get the desired effect might be shocking aura? I know it doesn't quite fit a warrior getting a shocking aura but it might do what you're wanting?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shocking_Aura_(effect)

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@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:I like that riposte/parry skill change, I think it'd make it possible to "replace" shield for condi builds. Not sure though how they'd make it an interrupt without a CC, and would that make it so you can change it to another target for the interrupt? That part might be a little broken.

Fair points, I'd point out though that things like Gunflame and Disrupting Stab have a 1/4s daze but still do their damage. The interrupt is more for keeping the riposte an actual riposte, but a 1/4s daze that keeps the damage would work as well as I think you are right that anything that interrupts in this game uses daze or one of the harder Cs to do so.

One thought I have to get the desired effect might be shocking aura? I know it doesn't quite fit a warrior getting a shocking aura but it might do what you're wanting?
)

I saw your recommendation before. The better comparison would be gladiators defense from GW1. To port that over would be to have a 2s channeled evasion that pulses AOE damage, but that would essentially be dagger storm but melee range.

Not that I'd be against that, but that is an elite equivalent ability.

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@Ferus.3165 said:the first thing warrior weapons need is, especially sword (main/off), is better animations. Like many old warrior weapons they are cluncky and have an huge aftercast on many abilites and that needs to be fixed before any numbers are thrown around.

Aye, what I recommended for impale/rip was essentially that. Do you have recommendations on other weapons? I'm holding back so that other players can have their say and not have this end up being my personal wish list.

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Personally I think the devs need to work on CC. The game just wasn't designed for how stability work currently. Working on CC is bound to indirectly benefit all profession, but it's especially true for professions that tend to fight at melee range in PvP/WvW like the warrior.

Balance need less emphasis on CC with large and long effect and more on the concept of "interrupting". To achieve this, the introduction of "CC duration/impact" mod is necessary and the reconversion of stability into a "-100% CC duration" mod no longer blocking the interrupt effect (and thus no longer a set number of block) would be, in my opinion a good option.

All in all, interupting is good, CC chain isn't.

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:Personally I think the devs need to work on CC. The game just wasn't designed for how stability work currently. Working on CC is bound to indirectly benefit all profession, but it's especially true for professions that tend to fight at melee range in PvP/WvW like the warrior.

Balance need less emphasis on CC with large and long effect and more on the concept of "interrupting". To achieve this, the introduction of "CC duration/impact" mod is necessary and the reconversion of stability into a "-100% CC duration" mod no longer blocking the interrupt effect (and thus no longer a set number of block) would be, in my opinion a good option.

All in all, interupting is good, CC chain isn't.

Like perhaps converting some knockbacks into dazes and returning some of the damage?

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@Lan Deathrider.5910Would we want to put the suggested changes to Banners in this as well? Considering they are mostly mechanic changes rather than any sort of flat increase or direct buff to their effects. I'll put them here regardless.

I'll take the direct quote from the post I summarized it all in because it also includes reasoning behind the changes.

@"KryTiKaL.3125" said:So just to compile the ideas;

Banners: Rework to function similar to Scrappers gyros, "attaching" the banner to the Warrior while retaining all current effects that banners provide. No more picking them up, no more having them replace currently slotted weapon skills.

Battle Standard: Would be reworked just like all other banners, the only difference is that it will alter its function to one similar to the Herald's Facet of Elements (which turns to Elemental Blast). While active it would replace the elite skill slot with its active use effect, a ground targeted finisher/rally.

I'm going to exclude suggesting adding a Banner heal skill as that would give Warriors 5 heal skills as a part of the Core class, and that would throw off the balance between the rest of the Core classes as all others have 4 heal skills.

Gyros got this treatment because they weren't terribly great due to how weird they worked and their previous function was outdated and just didn't fit well. Banners are in this same boat, and its part of why Warriors are pretty much only ever taken for Winds of Disenchantment in WvW zerging, and why Banners being as stationary as they are is an outdated concept for this game. While they are still widely used in PvE, mostly Raids and Fractals as they are still potent enough buffs when placed, changing how they work while retaining all current effects (they do not need to be increased or decreased) will still allow them to retain their position in PvE content, if not just be a nice QoL change for Warriors. It might even open them up for more use in WvW as well.

Please do note that this is the only thing that I would advise changing in regards to Banners, nothing else needs to be done. The only outside alteration that would need to be made, specifically traits, is that Doubled Standards would need a little revising in its tooltip and how it works.

"Doubled Standards" current: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon or pick up a banner."Doubled Standards" after: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon a banner.

That should be noted as well, try to pair a reasoning with any specific change anyone here comes up with or suggests; that was something I should have mentioned previously, as CMC also stated that it would be preferred and much more helpful if players actually stated the reasoning behind it. I'm sure everyone here has seen the constant threads of "CHANGE THIS JUST BECAUSE".

Explaining your thoughts as to why will be very helpful.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910Would we want to put the suggested changes to Banners in this as well? Considering they are mostly mechanic changes rather than any sort of flat increase or direct buff to their effects. I'll put them here regardless.

I'll take the direct quote from the post I summarized it all in because it also includes reasoning behind the changes.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:So just to compile the ideas;

Banners: Rework to function similar to Scrappers gyros, "attaching" the banner to the Warrior while retaining all current effects that banners provide. No more picking them up, no more having them replace currently slotted weapon skills.

Battle Standard: Would be reworked just like all other banners, the only difference is that it will alter its function to one similar to the Herald's Facet of Elements (which turns to Elemental Blast). While active it would replace the elite skill slot with its active use effect, a ground targeted finisher/rally.

I'm going to exclude suggesting adding a Banner heal skill as that would give Warriors 5 heal skills as a part of the Core class, and that would throw off the balance between the rest of the Core classes as all others have 4 heal skills.

Gyros got this treatment because they weren't terribly great due to how weird they worked and their previous function was outdated and just didn't fit well. Banners are in this same boat, and its part of why Warriors are pretty much only ever taken for Winds of Disenchantment in WvW zerging, and why Banners being as stationary as they are is an outdated concept for this game. While they are still widely used in PvE, mostly Raids and Fractals as they are still potent enough buffs when placed, changing how they work while retaining all current effects (they do
not
need to be increased or decreased) will still allow them to retain their position in PvE content, if not just be a nice QoL change for Warriors. It might even open them up for more use in WvW as well.

Please do note that this is the
only thing
that I would advise changing in regards to Banners,
nothing else
needs to be done. The only outside alteration that would need to be made, specifically traits, is that Doubled Standards would need a little revising in its tooltip and how it works.

"Doubled Standards" current: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon or pick up a banner."Doubled Standards" after: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon a banner.

That should be noted as well, try to pair a reasoning with any specific change anyone here comes up with or suggests; that was something I should have mentioned previously, as CMC also stated that it would be preferred and much more helpful if players actually stated the reasoning behind it. I'm sure everyone here has seen the
constant
threads of "CHANGE THIS JUST BECAUSE".

Explaining your thoughts as to
why
will be very helpful.

TYVM mate. As I said I'm trying to let other people bring things up before I comment further so it doesn't just look like a personal wish list, but a community driven set of feedback. Banners definitely need this update. I think keeping the reasoning within this thread rather than the main post may be fine. Otherwise the main post would get massive quickly.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:@Lan Deathrider.5910Would we want to put the suggested changes to Banners in this as well? Considering they are mostly mechanic changes rather than any sort of flat increase or direct buff to their effects. I'll put them here regardless.

I'll take the direct quote from the post I summarized it all in because it also includes reasoning behind the changes.

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:So just to compile the ideas;

Banners: Rework to function similar to Scrappers gyros, "attaching" the banner to the Warrior while retaining all current effects that banners provide. No more picking them up, no more having them replace currently slotted weapon skills.

Battle Standard: Would be reworked just like all other banners, the only difference is that it will alter its function to one similar to the Herald's Facet of Elements (which turns to Elemental Blast). While active it would replace the elite skill slot with its active use effect, a ground targeted finisher/rally.

I'm going to exclude suggesting adding a Banner heal skill as that would give Warriors 5 heal skills as a part of the Core class, and that would throw off the balance between the rest of the Core classes as all others have 4 heal skills.

Gyros got this treatment because they weren't terribly great due to how weird they worked and their previous function was outdated and just didn't fit well. Banners are in this same boat, and its part of why Warriors are pretty much only ever taken for Winds of Disenchantment in WvW zerging, and why Banners being as stationary as they are is an outdated concept for this game. While they are still widely used in PvE, mostly Raids and Fractals as they are still potent enough buffs when placed, changing how they work while retaining all current effects (they do
not
need to be increased or decreased) will still allow them to retain their position in PvE content, if not just be a nice QoL change for Warriors. It might even open them up for more use in WvW as well.

Please do note that this is the
only thing
that I would advise changing in regards to Banners,
nothing else
needs to be done. The only outside alteration that would need to be made, specifically traits, is that Doubled Standards would need a little revising in its tooltip and how it works.

"Doubled Standards" current: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon or pick up a banner."Doubled Standards" after: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon a banner.

That should be noted as well, try to pair a reasoning with any specific change anyone here comes up with or suggests; that was something I should have mentioned previously, as CMC also stated that it would be preferred and much more helpful if players actually stated the reasoning behind it. I'm sure everyone here has seen the
constant
threads of "CHANGE THIS JUST BECAUSE".

Explaining your thoughts as to
why
will be very helpful.

TYVM mate. As I said I'm trying to let other people bring things up before I comment further so it doesn't just look like a personal wish list, but a community driven set of feedback. Banners definitely need this update. I think keeping the reasoning within this thread rather than the main post may be fine. Otherwise the main post would get massive quickly.

Very true, it would get rather bloated with text. So long as links are provided back to this particular thread so the reasons can be viewed it should be fine. Either that or if the reasoning is concise enough it can be included in the main post. Explaining things concisely is not a skill I'm particularly good at, but others might be.

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Updated main post for daze on Riposte to reflect the soft CC via daze.Updated main post to include banner and double standard changes.

Again as you all provide feedback, please add your reasoning. If you've seen/shared posts before feel free to share them here again so that they can be collected into one place. I know several people wanted distinct Rifle and Longbow changes, and that others wanted distinct changes to some OH weapons, so feel free to chime in.

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Rifle 4 still has the bug where it cancels itself and goes on cooldown if the target enters your hitbox during its 1/2 second cast, even if you're standing still. They should either fix that bug or change it to evade before shooting.

I don't think longbow really needs buffs, it's already a good power weapon that can be used to 1v1 any other warrior build with the right setup (people on NA can whisper me for duels if you want to test it). If the goal is to make it useful for condi/hybrid, I'd argue that the issue lies with arms being too weak to compete with literally any other trait line warrior has in pvp.

Defy pain and last stand are still dead traits. I suggest having defy pain proc 5 seconds of retaliation (for synergy with spiked armor) and protection when dropping below 50% health on a 60 second cooldown. Other ideas could involve granting barrier instead of protection or keeping the stunbreak functionality. As for last stand, I think that lesser balanced stance should be replaced with reducing stance cooldowns by 20% while keeping the increased durations and vigor.

I disagree with your suggestion of speeding up impale, as I've not really had any difficulty landing it compared to rip, and if arms becomes viable it'll already get a faster cast from dual wielding. Instead, I think they should increase the duration of the impaled debuff to 6 seconds to allow a longer window to use rip, and/or decrease rip's cast time to 1/2 second.

For offhand mace, tremor shouldn't be counted as a projectile. It's already a slow-moving skill that can't traverse elevation or gaps in terrain, and the fact that it can be reflected just makes it even clunkier to use.

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@Torqiseknite.1380 said:

  • Rifle 4 still has the bug where it cancels itself and goes on cooldown if the target enters your hitbox during its 1/2 second cast, even if you're standing still. They should either fix that bug or change it to evade before shooting.It would be better to evade first.
  • I don't think longbow really needs buffs, it's already a good power weapon that can be used to 1v1 any other warrior build with the right setup (people on NA can whisper me for duels if you want to test it). If the goal is to make it useful for condi/hybrid, I'd argue that the issue lies with arms being too weak to compete with literally any other trait line warrior has in pvp.I have had surprising success with it myself in the past, but arcing arrow is clunky and fan of fire needs a tighter cone so that you aren't forced into melee range to get the most benefit of it.
  • Defy pain and last stand are still dead traits. I suggest having defy pain proc 5 seconds of retaliation (for synergy with spiked armor) and protection when dropping below 50% health on a 60 second cooldown. Other ideas could involve granting barrier instead of protection or keeping the stunbreak functionality. As for last stand, I think that lesser balanced stance should be replaced with reducing stance cooldowns by 20% while keeping the increased durations and vigor.

Those are all good suggestions.

  • I disagree with your suggestion of speeding up impale, as I've not really had any difficulty landing it compared to rip, and if arms becomes viable it'll already get a faster cast from dual wielding. Instead, I think they should increase the duration of the impaled debuff to 6 seconds to allow a longer window to use rip, and/or decrease rip's cast time to 1/2 second.It's more for normalization with throw axe which is a 1/4s cast. I don't think we'd get a duration increase, but I can see reducing Rip's cast time as well.
  • For offhand mace, tremor shouldn't be counted as a projectile. It's already a slow-moving skill that can't traverse elevation or gaps in terrain, and the fact that it can be reflected just makes it even clunkier to use.It would be better if it hit 4 150x300 rectangles in a row. Each with a 5 target cap. Mace 4 also feels like it should be quicker, but you are right on that a better worked version of dual wielding may help that instead. Any thoughts on dual wielding or Arms specifically?
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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

  • Rifle 4 still has the bug where it cancels itself and goes on cooldown if the target enters your hitbox during its 1/2 second cast, even if you're standing still. They should either fix that bug or change it to evade before shooting.It would be better to evade first.
  • I don't think longbow really needs buffs, it's already a good power weapon that can be used to 1v1 any other warrior build with the right setup (people on NA can whisper me for duels if you want to test it). If the goal is to make it useful for condi/hybrid, I'd argue that the issue lies with arms being too weak to compete with literally any other trait line warrior has in pvp.I have had surprising success with it myself in the past, but arcing arrow is clunky and fan of fire needs a tighter cone so that you aren't forced into melee range to get the most benefit of it.
  • Defy pain and last stand are still dead traits. I suggest having defy pain proc 5 seconds of retaliation (for synergy with spiked armor) and protection when dropping below 50% health on a 60 second cooldown. Other ideas could involve granting barrier instead of protection or keeping the stunbreak functionality. As for last stand, I think that lesser balanced stance should be replaced with reducing stance cooldowns by 20% while keeping the increased durations and vigor.

Those are all good suggestions.
  • I disagree with your suggestion of speeding up impale, as I've not really had any difficulty landing it compared to rip, and if arms becomes viable it'll already get a faster cast from dual wielding. Instead, I think they should increase the duration of the impaled debuff to 6 seconds to allow a longer window to use rip, and/or decrease rip's cast time to 1/2 second.It's more for normalization with throw axe which is a 1/4s cast. I don't think we'd get a duration increase, but I can see reducing Rip's cast time as well.
  • For offhand mace, tremor shouldn't be counted as a projectile. It's already a slow-moving skill that can't traverse elevation or gaps in terrain, and the fact that it can be reflected just makes it even clunkier to use.It would be better if it hit 4 150x300 rectangles in a row. Each with a 5 target cap. Mace 4 also feels like it should be quicker, but you are right on that a better worked version of dual wielding may help that instead. Any thoughts on dual wielding or Arms specifically?

Balancing dual wielding is probably a bit tricky since the main question is whether or not it should stack with quickness for +70% attack speed. At the very least, I think it should stack with the +15% attack speed from berserk mode since berserker is essentially warrior's condi elite spec. If stacking with quickness is a problem, it could also grant a 5-10% bonus to power/condition damage when you have quickness to cover that loss of functionality.

Burst precision should give a brief 100% crit chance buff after using a burst skill, similar to hidden killer in critical strikes. This would allow for greater synergy with the bloodlust minor and potentially help hybrid builds with their burst (e.g. guaranteed crit on final thrust after flurry).

The bonus bleed duration on bloodlust should be increased to +25% in competitive modes to reflect its status as a minor grandmaster (compare with barbed precision, the minor adept in curses that grants the same amount of bleed on crit and +20% bleed duration).

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Personally I think the devs need to work on CC. The game just wasn't designed for how stability work currently. Working on CC is bound to indirectly benefit all profession, but it's especially true for professions that tend to fight at melee range in PvP/WvW like the warrior.

Balance need less emphasis on CC with large and long effect and more on the concept of "interrupting". To achieve this, the introduction of "CC duration/impact" mod is necessary and the reconversion of stability into a "-100% CC duration" mod no longer blocking the interrupt effect (and thus no longer a set number of block) would be, in my opinion a good option.

All in all, interupting is good, CC chain isn't.

Like perhaps converting some knockbacks into dazes and returning some of the damage?

Well, yes and no. Let's say that it's an option on the short term but on the long term it's not going to do any good to the game to just turn knock back into daze. Daze in itself is still a "long duration CC" even if it's effect is less debilitating than a knock back. As for the damage, yes, I'm all for a return of some of them, the true issue was being locked in a chain of CC with stupidly long duration, not the damage received. (I always feel like ANet's devs miss the mark when they balance, the CC change is a good example of that)

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@Torqiseknite.1380 said:

  • Rifle 4 still has the bug where it cancels itself and goes on cooldown if the target enters your hitbox during its 1/2 second cast, even if you're standing still. They should either fix that bug or change it to evade before shooting.It would be better to evade first.
  • I don't think longbow really needs buffs, it's already a good power weapon that can be used to 1v1 any other warrior build with the right setup (people on NA can whisper me for duels if you want to test it). If the goal is to make it useful for condi/hybrid, I'd argue that the issue lies with arms being too weak to compete with literally any other trait line warrior has in pvp.I have had surprising success with it myself in the past, but arcing arrow is clunky and fan of fire needs a tighter cone so that you aren't forced into melee range to get the most benefit of it.
  • Defy pain and last stand are still dead traits. I suggest having defy pain proc 5 seconds of retaliation (for synergy with spiked armor) and protection when dropping below 50% health on a 60 second cooldown. Other ideas could involve granting barrier instead of protection or keeping the stunbreak functionality. As for last stand, I think that lesser balanced stance should be replaced with reducing stance cooldowns by 20% while keeping the increased durations and vigor.

Those are all good suggestions.
  • I disagree with your suggestion of speeding up impale, as I've not really had any difficulty landing it compared to rip, and if arms becomes viable it'll already get a faster cast from dual wielding. Instead, I think they should increase the duration of the impaled debuff to 6 seconds to allow a longer window to use rip, and/or decrease rip's cast time to 1/2 second.It's more for normalization with throw axe which is a 1/4s cast. I don't think we'd get a duration increase, but I can see reducing Rip's cast time as well.
  • For offhand mace, tremor shouldn't be counted as a projectile. It's already a slow-moving skill that can't traverse elevation or gaps in terrain, and the fact that it can be reflected just makes it even clunkier to use.It would be better if it hit 4 150x300 rectangles in a row. Each with a 5 target cap. Mace 4 also feels like it should be quicker, but you are right on that a better worked version of dual wielding may help that instead. Any thoughts on dual wielding or Arms specifically?

Balancing dual wielding is probably a bit tricky since the main question is whether or not it should stack with quickness for +70% attack speed. At the very least, I think it should stack with the +15% attack speed from berserk mode since berserker is essentially warrior's condi elite spec. If stacking with quickness is a problem, it could also grant a 5-10% bonus to power/condition damage when you have quickness to cover that loss of functionality.Yeah, that is the tricky part. It needs something else to make it worth taking, although for it being in Arms it would have to be condi or critical hit related. How about critical hits while dual wielding provide quickness(3s 10s CD) and swiftness (3s 10s CD) in addition to the base attack speed increase?Burst precision should give a brief 100% crit chance buff after using a burst skill, similar to hidden killer in critical strikes. This would allow for greater synergy with the bloodlust minor and potentially help hybrid builds with their burst (e.g. guaranteed crit on final thrust after flurry).Glad to see someone else thinks the same way. I'll add this in and is solid reasoning for the trait to be reworked to better fit the traitline.The bonus bleed duration on bloodlust should be increased to +25% in competitive modes to reflect its status as a minor grandmaster (compare with barbed precision, the minor adept in curses that grants the same amount of bleed on crit and +20% bleed duration).It used to be 33% but it got nerfed prior in the Feb. patch, this is a great example of how unevenly their balance patch was done. I think what is more likely is that Barbed Precision gets nerfed to 15% rather than Bloodlust getting buffed.
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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Personally I think the devs need to work on CC. The game just wasn't designed for how stability work currently. Working on CC is bound to indirectly benefit all profession, but it's especially true for professions that tend to fight at melee range in PvP/WvW like the warrior.

Balance need less emphasis on CC with large and long effect and more on the concept of "interrupting". To achieve this, the introduction of "CC duration/impact" mod is necessary and the reconversion of stability into a "-100% CC duration" mod no longer blocking the interrupt effect (and thus no longer a set number of block) would be, in my opinion a good option.

All in all, interupting is good, CC chain isn't.

Like perhaps converting some knockbacks into dazes and returning some of the damage?

Well, yes and no. Let's say that it's an option on the short term but on the long term it's not going to do any good to the game to just turn knock back into daze. Daze in itself is still a "long duration CC" even if it's effect is less debilitating than a knock back. As for the damage, yes, I'm all for a return of some of them, the true issue was being locked in a chain of CC with stupidly long duration, not the damage received. (I always feel like ANet's devs miss the mark when they balance, the CC change is a good example of that)

Well when I mentioned knockback -> daze I was meaning a 1/4s daze.

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Added:

  • Kill Shot self root removal. Reasoning is the same as Flurry. I went ahead and added that in since I was adding to rifle. Self roots in general are suicide in a game where active defense is the main means of defense.
  • Added on Rifle 4 to have the evade moved to before the shot is fired.
  • Added Burst Precision change. I added a tiered effect based on Adrenaline bars spent. This will help differentiate core from the elite specs and keep said elite specs from over abusing the suggested change.
  • Added Tremor change. I did not propose how many or what size the AoE field(s) should be, that can be debated still, or be left up to the Devs.
  • Added Last Stand change.
  • Added Defy Pain change.

Still debating:

  • Some knockbacks being changed to 1/4s daze and having some damage returned.
  • Dual Wielding changes. I may remove my suggestion on cast time decreases depending on how this plays out.

Feedback is still welcome, be constructive and provide sound reasoning please.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Added:

  • Kill Shot self root removal. Reasoning is the same as Flurry. I went ahead and added that in since I was adding to rifle. Self roots in general are suicide in a game where active defense is the main means of defense.

Does it mean you advocate for removing self root on every skill in the game? Because otherwise this reasoning seems inconsistent and biased, just saying :p

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@Sobx.1758 said:

Added:
  • Kill Shot self root removal. Reasoning is the same as Flurry. I went ahead and added that in since I was adding to rifle. Self roots in general are suicide in a game where active defense is the main means of defense.

Does it mean you advocate for removing self root on every skill in the game? Because otherwise this reasoning seems inconsistent and biased, just saying :p

I do in fact. That crap needs to go. In particular for anything channeled. A 1/4s self root is one thing a +1.5s self root is another. But sure get rid of them all.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Yeah, that is the tricky part. It needs something else to make it worth taking, although for it being in Arms it would have to be condi or critical hit related. How about critical hits while dual wielding provide quickness(3s 10s CD) and swiftness (3s 10s CD) in addition to the base attack speed increase?While thematic, I think this would overlap a bit too much with heightened focus in discipline for passive quickness uptime. Maybe it could grant 3 seconds of superspeed on a 15 second cd instead?

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Added:
  • Kill Shot self root removal. Reasoning is the same as Flurry. I went ahead and added that in since I was adding to rifle. Self roots in general are suicide in a game where active defense is the main means of defense.

Does it mean you advocate for removing self root on every skill in the game? Because otherwise this reasoning seems inconsistent and biased, just saying :p

I do in fact. That kitten needs to go. In particular for anything channeled. A 1/4s self root is one thing a +1.5s self root is another. But sure get rid of them all.If kill shot gets unrooted, it needs a more visible animation since the current one can be difficult to see. I'd also argue that self root on a skill like hundred blades is fine, because it's meant to require setup for a high risk/high reward burst, similar to eviscerate (which locks you into the leap animation). On the other hand, flurry is evidently intended to set itself up with immobilize, but that doesn't always work if you can't get opponents to stand still long enough to start casting it on them.
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@Torqiseknite.1380 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Yeah, that is the tricky part. It needs something else to make it worth taking, although for it being in Arms it would have to be condi or critical hit related. How about critical hits while dual wielding provide quickness(3s 10s CD) and swiftness (3s 10s CD) in addition to the base attack speed increase?While thematic, I think this would overlap a bit too much with heightened focus in discipline for passive quickness uptime. Maybe it could grant 3 seconds of superspeed on a 15 second cd instead?You are right on the conflict with Heightened Focus. Perhaps Dual Wielding should be +20% attack speed, gain 100 Power and Condition damage while dual wielding. Gain additional (+50) Power and Condition Damage while you have quickness or swiftness. So +100 Power +100 Condition damage, with a possible +200 total if you have quickness and swiftness, but only while dual wielding. This would help Sword/Sword condi builds over sword/torch, and help maximize Axe/Axe and dagger/dagger builds over x/Shield variants.@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Added:
  • Kill Shot self root removal. Reasoning is the same as Flurry. I went ahead and added that in since I was adding to rifle. Self roots in general are suicide in a game where active defense is the main means of defense.

Does it mean you advocate for removing self root on every skill in the game? Because otherwise this reasoning seems inconsistent and biased, just saying :p

I do in fact. That kitten needs to go. In particular for anything channeled. A 1/4s self root is one thing a +1.5s self root is another. But sure get rid of them all.If kill shot gets unrooted, it needs a more visible animation since the current one can be difficult to see. I'd also argue that self root on a skill like hundred blades is fine, because it's meant to require setup for a high risk/high reward burst, similar to eviscerate (which locks you into the leap animation). On the other hand, flurry is evidently intended to set itself up with immobilize, but that doesn't always work if you can't get opponents to stand still long enough to start casting it on them.

I'd be fine with an animation change. Flurry and Kill Shot are two skills that really do not work well because of the self root. Hundred Blades itself does not function well either, you never get all the hits in, and as a result you'd be better off just auto attacking. But if I had to pick piece meal which skills to unroot first they would be Flurry, Kill Shot, and then maybe Hundred Blades. Hundred Blades may be fine if it remained as is but with a shorter channel time.

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