Warrior Balance Requests Omnibus

[Grand Marshal.4098]

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[Grand Marshal.4098]

So I was reading through the thread a bit, as well as the recent suggestions made by @anbujackson.9564 regarding Banners, while also remembering what has been discussed in the past concerning banners. So this is the most solid suggestion I've gathered so far from combining most proposals from other people on the forum:

 

 

Banner trait: becomes a Grandmaster in Tactics and replace shouts, which move to Discipline. A bit of a hot take here as not many want this to happen, but please bear with me for a sec.

 

 To avoid turning banners into mobile 'wells' like gyros, in the sense of becoming mobile light fields (due to the most recent 'ew' change), I'd say remove the field. This will differentiate them from Gyros. 

 

 Banners can mount on the back as said before and stay active for 20 seconds like now, after which period they despawn and enter a CD. 

 

 To counter boring game play, I came up with a solution. The banner icon will remain the same in the skill art. But when you cast it instead of showing a minute CD, it will show a flip skill for an active effect, which counts as picking up the banner, therefore entering its usual placement CD. Think of this like ranger spirits, but without the health loss shenanigans. Actually think about this type of banners as more similar to Herald Facets. Unlike the Facets though, the first effect is a passive bonus and the active effect revolves around immediate Boon application to allies and not selfish skills or offensive measures. 

 

-Banners retain their active as the Stat increase. Banners now have a flip skill for a second effect which removes them banner entirely unless the CD is up to ressumon it. 

 

BoS 2nd active effect: Grant 5 stacks of Might to allies for 10s

 

BoDisc: Grant Fury to allies for 10s

 

BoDef: Grant Protection to allies for 7s

 

BoT: Grant Regeneration to allies for 10s

 

The 2nd active effects for banners have no animation and are instant cast. The first active effects require the normal banner summoning cast. 

 

The Battle Standard has an animation and a cast time for both actives, 1 granting Might, Fury and Swiftness for your allies and the flip over rez/stomp. Cast time is there to ofc create counterplay, as a presummoned Standard instantly rez/stomp would be bad. 

 

As for their trait, Double Standards becomes a Grandmaster and is this: "retain the 1st active of your banners for 5s after using the 2nd active. Using a banner skill grants swiftness to you 10s. 

 

Ideally I'd want to see Banner of Defense get a stun break on it's 2nd active skill, to promote banner game play a bit more safely. This, being in core warrior, would greatly improve the possibilities of defensive and offensive support options in competitive modes, outside the classic bruiser variants, or dedicated spec roles like Boon strip on SpB and DPS Zerker. 

 

Do you guys think this reflects on the ideal banners change we've been after for so long? 

 

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The problem with swapping Vigorous Shouts into Discipline is that you could then run it with PS and turn FGJ into a very powerful self heal on an ammo system. No bueno.

 

Making double standards effects baseline and removing the trait is the minimum for opening up build diversity like they claimed they wanted to do. Beyond that banners need a straight up functional change, like being mounted on the warrior's back and moving with them.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

 

 

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The problem with swapping Vigorous Shouts into Discipline is that you could then run it with PS and turn FGJ into a very powerful self heal on an ammo system. No bueno.

 

Making double standards effects baseline and removing the trait is the minimum for opening up build diversity like they claimed they wanted to do. Beyond that banners need a straight up functional change, like being mounted on the warrior's back and moving with them.

Yeah which is why I thought that this could change if the trait affecting banners was less of a stats thing and more of QoL thing. For example having mounted your Banner of Strength on your back and preparing for a range spike, with the trait you give off some extra Might alongside with the banner effect to your allies. You lose the banner for 15 out of the 20s it would need for an immediate respawn. But it would end up in a superior spike which you wouldn't get without the trait, but could also choose not to have, therefore maintaining a steady upkeep in the Stat increase. Just like Herald Facets, but the flip over being a "stronger" variant of the initial Boon. 

 

Cause imo it would be very boring, even if the banner could move with us, to simply mount it and have the skill itself do nothing else for 20s until it despawns and you can recast it on you. Give it some flavor and some situational advantage. 

[Vancho.8750]

Bumping this one again. Don't let the hype for the new speck fool you, old issues will stay if we don't kitten and moan like rest of the peanut gallery.

Off hand dagger on Spellbreaker, why does it suck, it is worse than shield, what can it make it better, projectile reflect just becomes cone shaped block like DH or the  Holo one, tada it is still worse than shield but it can be useful in PvP as an damage option. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

15 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Bumping this one again. Don't let the hype for the new speck fool you, old issues will stay if we don't kitten and moan like rest of the peanut gallery.

Off hand dagger on Spellbreaker, why does it suck, it is worse than shield, what can it make it better, projectile reflect just becomes cone shaped block like DH or the  Holo one, tada it is still worse than shield but it can be useful in PvP as an damage option. 

As I've said elsewhere. Turn Dagger 5 into a ground targeted AoE that does everything that it already does, 1200 range, something like a 300 radius AoE, lightening field. Turn Dual Wielding into a trait that grants effects when the OH weapon skill criticals, with OH dagger removing boons on a critical with no ICD.

 

Dagger2/F1 could be used to leap through the field to CC a target in the field, with No Escape immobilizing them. Then the new S&M style would grant more damage to MH dagger while the target is stripped of boons.

 

Enchantment collapse could be reworked to also inflict foes that have their boons stripped with the disenchantment effect for 1s, stacking in duration per boon stripped.

 

To differentiate Dagger 5 from WoD, Dagger Storm would not be unblockable, WoD should remove 2 boons per tick.

 

@Josh Davis.7865 If you haven't seen this thread yet, it is worth the read. The main post has everything we've discussed up to page 13 summarized in it.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Another take on re-working Defy Pain (in Defense trait line):

 

baseline 5% reduction in physical damage taken and 5% reduction in condition damage taken

Gain resolution (5s) when health <50% (8s ICD)

 

• This trait synergizes with Hardened armor to potentially offer high resolution (and the attendant 10% dmg reduction via Hardened Armor) up-time. 
• Also gives a little more control over the resolution application, since Hardened Armor procs when critically hit; gaining resolution when your health drops <50% would ensure you get resolution and dmg reduction when you need it most.
• The small but constant reductions in both physical and condition damage ensure that you are always gaining at least some value from the trait.
• The fact that the resolution granted can be stripped/corrupted keeps it balanced.

Edited August 19, 2021 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Grand Marshal.4098]

While we are at it I had these unique effects in mind for our stances:

 

Balanced Stance: remains as is with the immunity to crits (partial strike dmg defense)

Endure Pain: also remains as is with the 100% strike dmg defense

 

Berserker's Stance: Conditions on you deal no dmg as long as in the stance (but it won't ignore their effects, which is resistance's role) for total condition immunity for 4s 

Frenzy: Reduce the inc condition dmg by 33% (our own unique resolution type effect which can stack with the actual boon and provide some unstrippable partial defense vs condis)

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Another take on re-working Defy Pain (in Defense trait line):

 

baseline 5% reduction in physical damage taken and 5% reduction in condition damage taken

Gain resolution (5s) when health <50% (8s ICD)

 

• This trait synergizes with Hardened armor to potentially offer high resolution (and the attendant 10% dmg reduction via Hardened Armor) up-time. 
• Also gives a little more control over the resolution application, since Hardened Armor procs when critically hit; gaining resolution when your health drops <50% would ensure you get resolution and dmg reduction when you need it most.
• The small but constant reductions in both physical and condition damage ensure that you are always gaining at least some value from the trait.
• The fact that the resolution granted can be stripped/corrupted keeps it balanced.

All good things.

 

Personally I'd up the damage reduction on Hardened Armor to  33%. Defy Pain to me know, I'd like to see it proc protection, resolution, resistance for 5s and grant 2k barrier once at 50% HP. Give it a 30s CD since that would be a strong effect. But I'm jaded now so that may be too strong of an effect.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

While we are at it I had these unique effects in mind for our stances:

 

Balanced Stance: remains as is with the immunity to crits (partial strike dmg defense)

Endure Pain: also remains as is with the 100% strike dmg defense

 

Berserker's Stance: Conditions on you deal no dmg as long as in the stance (but it won't ignore their effects, which is resistance's role) for total condition immunity for 4s

I like the idea of a condi damage immunity effect. I can assum that the adrenaline gain would be there still?

3 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Frenzy: Reduce the inc condition dmg by 33% (our own unique resolution type effect which can stack with the actual boon and provide some unstrippable partial defense vs condis)

 

Trying to get a Dolyak Stance copy? I think that would be helpful for warrior.

 

I also think fairly strongly that there should be a condition duration reduction trait added into Defense, as a straight -20% condition duration reduction, not -XX% of certain conditions. Yes, I want it to stack with Dogged March.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I like the idea of a condi damage immunity effect. I can assum that the adrenaline gain would be there still?

Ofc, an added effect is needed post resistance nerf. 

8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Trying to get a Dolyak Stance copy? I think that would be helpful for warrior.

Indeed. It only makes sense for what the stances seem to represent. 

 

8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I also think fairly strongly that there should be a condition duration reduction trait added into Defense, as a straight -20% condition duration reduction, not -XX% of certain conditions. Yes, I want it to stack with Dogged March.

Hard agree. 

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

On 6/24/2021 at 12:20 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Beyond that banners need a straight up functional change, like being mounted on the warrior's back and moving with them.

 

This reminds me of a Path of Exile (PoE) implementation for banners.  How about GW2 also adds the stacks of increased buff linked to accumulating kills as in PoE?  Sounds good to me.

Edited August 19, 2021 by RiyazGuerra.9203
typo

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

49 minutes ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

 

This reminds me of a Path of Exile (PoE) implementation for banners.  How about GW2 also adds the stacks of increased buff linked to accumulating kills as in PoE?  Sounds good to me.

I'd love it tbh.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Rework idea for Revenge Counter for WvW/PvP:

 

Damage increased by 500%

*Transfers* 2 conditions to enemies that are hit

Gain Resistance for 3s

 

Why? We need an alternative to magebane--Not that it's bad; on the contrary, it is so good that there is no reason to take anything else. This would hopefully bring Revenge Counter up to that level.

 

500% dmg increase might seem like a lot, but FC does about 70dmg, so the increase would only make the dmg about 350. It's not much, but it would be a bit better than the slap on the wrist that it currently is.

 

Transferring conditions makes FC a powerful condition cleanse, which is important since resistance is nerfed.

 

Slight increase to resistance since it is weaker.

 

This might be enough to make revenge counter better in some circumstances, e.g., vs condi heavy scourges, etc.

 

What do you all think?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Rework idea for Revenge Counter for WvW/PvP:

 

Damage increased by 500%

*Transfers* 2 conditions to enemies that are hit

Gain Resistance for 3s

 

Why? We need an alternative to magebane--Not that it's bad; on the contrary, it is so good that there is no reason to take anything else. This would hopefully bring Revenge Counter up to that level.

 

500% dmg increase might seem like a lot, but FC does about 70dmg, so the increase would only make the dmg about 350. It's not much, but it would be a bit better than the slap on the wrist that it currently is.

 

Transferring conditions makes FC a powerful condition cleanse, which is important since resistance is nerfed.

 

Slight increase to resistance since it is weaker.

 

This might be enough to make revenge counter better in some circumstances, e.g., vs condi heavy scourges, etc.

 

What do you all think?

I don't mind it to be a 3 condi transfer since FC is time gated anyway, but I understand that the idea is to pair it with Cleansing Ire. 

 

In any case the copy conditions mechanic worked before when we could ignore the condis. Not so much now... So I'm in. 

 

As for the dmg part, I welcome it! Ofc the trait would need a significant split for PvE. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Rework idea for Revenge Counter for WvW/PvP:

 

Damage increased by 500%

*Transfers* 2 conditions to enemies that are hit

Gain Resistance for 3s

 

Why? We need an alternative to magebane--Not that it's bad; on the contrary, it is so good that there is no reason to take anything else. This would hopefully bring Revenge Counter up to that level.

 

500% dmg increase might seem like a lot, but FC does about 70dmg, so the increase would only make the dmg about 350. It's not much, but it would be a bit better than the slap on the wrist that it currently is.

 

Transferring conditions makes FC a powerful condition cleanse, which is important since resistance is nerfed.

 

Slight increase to resistance since it is weaker.

 

This might be enough to make revenge counter better in some circumstances, e.g., vs condi heavy scourges, etc.

 

What do you all think?

Double

Edited August 20, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Every day pon.5386]

Horn: Tactic's Roaring Reveille nerf & Resistance nerf should be corrected to reflect the boon rebalance.

Roaring Reveille's Horn 4 Charge should add Resistance for movement & Horn 5's Call of Valor should be Resolution, as Resolution is the spirit of damage mitigation being Horn 5

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I don't mind it to be a 3 condi transfer since FC is time gated anyway, but I understand that the idea is to pair it with Cleansing Ire. 

 

In any case the copy conditions mechanic worked before when we could ignore the condis. Not so much now... So I'm in. 

 

As for the dmg part, I welcome it! Ofc the trait would need a significant split for PvE. 

Honestly, FC needs it's competitive damage increased to the point where the 20% increase matters and the daze reduced to 1s. I agree with you two that the 'copy' should instead be a transfer at this point since the Resistance change.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Every day pon.5386 said:

Horn: Tactic's Roaring Reveille nerf & Resistance nerf should be corrected to reflect the boon rebalance.

Roaring Reveille's Horn 4 Charge should add Resistance for movement & Horn 5's Call of Valor should be Resolution, as Resolution is the spirit of damage mitigation being Horn 5

Thanks for catching that. You're right in that this would now make more sense. 

[Myror.7521]

I would pretty mutch love to see a like 10% increased damage buff to Eviscrate. Since that skill nowdays hit less damage than gs burst skilm

[Sobx.1758]

In case we're still calling 300s traits "placeholders":

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/103869-the-300s-cd-skills-are-not-going-to-be-fixed/

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Tbf CMC probably did that since the others hadn't been reworked yet. That said we're stuck with his failed balance approach until Grouch and Raymond get to work after EoD release.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I want to see Bladestorm be a viable pick in contrast to OH Axe. 

Especially for competetive modes. 

Increase number of strikes to 10.

Revert coeff per strike to 0.35 or at least 0.3. 

Remove swiftness and add Resolution for 3 sec to the user. 

Then we can see how it turns out with it's vuln application. 

Ideally, mainhand dagger skills should get an increase to 3 target skills (the 2 and F1) to make it more appealing as an option to mainhand Axe. 

[Geoff Fey.1035]

33 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I want to see Bladestorm be a viable pick in contrast to OH Axe. 

Honestly at this point I want anything to be a viable pick in contrast to Axe OH in PvE.

Dagger OH is Axe OH with:

• Skill 4: no Quickness, and if I'm reading it right(?) even with the 100% damage increase when used on foes not using skills it does less damage than Axe 4
• Skill 5: Less damage (Axe 5 does x3.4 higher damage), higher cooldown (20s), for..... 2 stacks of vulnerability + reflect projectiles?

Pistol OH is Axe OH with:

• Skill 4: Gap closer + reload, specifically designed to work in tandem with Skill 5.
• Skill 5: Less damage and primarily only taken to proc Fierce as Fire with the explosions.

Sword OH is a joke 

• Skill 4: Should either get an increase to its Damage to make it Hybrid, or add an insane level of Torment + Bleed on Rip
• Skill 5: Okay as a defensive choice, but literally every single other Warrior OH does this utility/damage better

Mace OH is middling--primarily because Maces are just left behind. All other professions can cover enough CC now that Warriors aren't even bothered to bring Maces (MH or OH). Needs a facelift (CD, effects, damage, something) to become relevant again

Shield OH is always designed as defensive, but needs a facelift (Barrier?). In PvE there's no situation I'm aware of (End Game or Open World) where a Shield is more desirable than any other weapon the Warrior has access to, including tanky builds.

Warhorn OH needs a buff (lots of people say Quickness duration should be x1.5 to x2 longer), on the right track but not currently there

Torch OH Skill 4 is okayish, Skill 5 should pulse more burning and pulses remove conditions. Needs a facelift.

The PvE meta of Axe/Axe + Greatsword has been going on for 10 years. The only thing that's remotely come close to replacing that was

1. Mace/Mace for Fractals/Raids CC - Defunct now
2. Sword/Torch + Longbow for Condi builds
3. Axe/Pistol for Bladesworn to proc Fierce as Fire - Literally still uses Axes....

Warriors have the most weapon choices and combinations in the entire game (21 Possible combos baseline; whereas the next profession with the most weapon combos including Elite Specs is 22; Warriors can get up to 36) and yet here we are using the same 3 weapons (with Pistol now added for a specific build only because of the Explosion keyword).

Overload hybrid damage onto Sword Offhand and you'll see more people using it to spice up their condi/hybrid builds

Add condi to Mace OH + MH (or via Traits) so Skullgrinder (Berserker Primal Burst) makes sense having so much condi on it and people will bother with OH again

Revamp Longbow so it plays more aggressively close range to match the way that the skills are designed (it needs a major facelift)

Make Dagger better than just "OH Axe but worse" (Sun & Moon Style is the only reason to run OH Dagger)

Give Shield some oomph

Revitalize Hammer so that it's a worthwhile alternative to Greatsword--this would go a decent way because it would recapture the GW1 Warrior archetype (starting weapon was a Hammer) and allow people to get away from GS.

Just.... do anything with Rifle and stop hamstringing the entire weapon because of the Burst skill

[Grand Marshal.4098]

26 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

Honestly at this point I want anything to be a viable pick in contrast to Axe OH in PvE.

Dagger OH is Axe OH with:

• Skill 4: no Quickness, and if I'm reading it right(?) even with the 100% damage increase when used on foes not using skills it does less damage than Axe 4
• Skill 5: Less damage (Axe 5 does x3.4 higher damage), higher cooldown (20s), for..... 2 stacks of vulnerability + reflect projectiles?

Pistol OH is Axe OH with:

• Skill 4: Gap closer + reload, specifically designed to work in tandem with Skill 5.
• Skill 5: Less damage and primarily only taken to proc Fierce as Fire with the explosions.

Sword OH is a joke 

• Skill 4: Should either get an increase to its Damage to make it Hybrid, or add an insane level of Torment + Bleed on Rip
• Skill 5: Okay as a defensive choice, but literally every single other Warrior OH does this utility/damage better

Mace OH is middling--primarily because Maces are just left behind. All other professions can cover enough CC now that Warriors aren't even bothered to bring Maces (MH or OH). Needs a facelift (CD, effects, damage, something) to become relevant again

Shield OH is always designed as defensive, but needs a facelift (Barrier?). In PvE there's no situation I'm aware of (End Game or Open World) where a Shield is more desirable than any other weapon the Warrior has access to, including tanky builds.

Warhorn OH needs a buff (lots of people say Quickness duration should be x1.5 to x2 longer), on the right track but not currently there

Torch OH Skill 4 is okayish, Skill 5 should pulse more burning and pulses remove conditions. Needs a facelift.

The PvE meta of Axe/Axe + Greatsword has been going on for 10 years. The only thing that's remotely come close to replacing that was

1. Mace/Mace for Fractals/Raids CC - Defunct now
2. Sword/Torch + Longbow for Condi builds
3. Axe/Pistol for Bladesworn to proc Fierce as Fire - Literally still uses Axes....

Warriors have the most weapon choices and combinations in the entire game (21 Possible combos baseline; whereas the next profession with the most weapon combos including Elite Specs is 22; Warriors can get up to 36) and yet here we are using the same 3 weapons (with Pistol now added for a specific build only because of the Explosion keyword).

Overload hybrid damage onto Sword Offhand and you'll see more people using it to spice up their condi/hybrid builds

Add condi to Mace OH + MH (or via Traits) so Skullgrinder (Berserker Primal Burst) makes sense having so much condi on it and people will bother with OH again

Revamp Longbow so it plays more aggressively close range to match the way that the skills are designed (it needs a major facelift)

Make Dagger better than just "OH Axe but worse" (Sun & Moon Style is the only reason to run OH Dagger)

Give Shield some oomph

Revitalize Hammer so that it's a worthwhile alternative to Greatsword--this would go a decent way because it would recapture the GW1 Warrior archetype (starting weapon was a Hammer) and allow people to get away from GS.

Just.... do anything with Rifle and stop hamstringing the entire weapon because of the Burst skill

Yeah totally. 

I just would love to be able to use DPS SpB in wvw with dagger OH.