Ovark.2514 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 February patch was intended to remove damage from CC yet we still have to deal with this mess. Terror is by far the most egregious of the traits which deal damage to CC'd foes. Literally every neco is using the exact same 3 utility skills: Wurm, Spectral Walk, and Spectral Ring. If Terror needs to exist, why not have it deal damage at the END of the fear as long as it wasn't cleansed/stun-broken; that way there is some way to avoid the damage. Better yet, why not have fear last longer but lose it's CC component when Terror trait is taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephoid.4263 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Damage on fear is literally a condition. It is effectively the same as 'when fear is applied, apply X condition' except it is much easier to cleanse as you only need to remove the fear. Unlike the power CC effects before the feb patch, you can stop this damage by just breaking the cc. Even a small number of stun breaks makes the trait nearly useless. How about you stop running around through spectral ring multiple times (which is really the only way this trait does good damage, given the small number of fears on necro). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Considering a lot fears have tells to them I don't think any serious player considers Terror a big issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 @Ragnar.4257 said:A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line.You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?Don't see terror as an issue, but this is not really an argument here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbreaker.6507 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 @Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line.You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?Hey now, I breached the 20 mark with a ton of might on an Earthshaker crit.I imagined that's what lottery winners felt like! =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Maybe blanket nerfing all hard CC's to .01 power scaling was always a kind of stupid idea in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 @Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line.You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?Don't see terror as an issue, but this is not really an argument here.That's my whole point.You haven't understood.My point was that Terror is not an issue because if it doesn't CC (i.e. the target has stability) then no damage will happen, and no CC will happen, the same as other CC skills that land on stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Fear is nothing in comparison to everything else and you don't need something that says "stunbreak" to nullify it. Considering also that Necromancer is one of the weakest profession to deal condition damage, it's not overboard at all.Fun fact: Thief has better Fear than Necromancer.@ArthurDent.9538 said:Maybe blanket nerfing all hard CC's to .01 power scaling was always a kind of stupid idea in the first place.Making CC's unable to critically hit would have been a better way to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 I feel a lot of threads these days are people coming off the back of a match they lost where they kept letting killed, looked at the death log as went "this killed me so it must be BS" and come post on the forums about it needing a change so they do t lose to it anymore. I'm losing to it so it must be OP and needs a nerf seems to be a more prominent trend. I mean it was always there but just seems like more of a thing these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Take a look at Lightning Rod, it's Terror but better (in a vacuum).Anyway, cmc stated you actively trait for terror so it's healthy/fine. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 @Ragnar.4257 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line.You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?Don't see terror as an issue, but this is not really an argument here.That's my whole point.You haven't understood.My point was that Terror is not an issue because if it doesn't CC (i.e. the target has stability) then no damage will happen, and no CC will happen, the same as other CC skills that land on stability.How is that the same?If another hard CC skill hits, then you get cced, but the skill itself still does no damage because they changed all the power coefficients to 0,01.If fear lands with terror on the other hand, then both cc and damage happen. Because terror makes that hard cc skill deal actual damage while other hard cc skills won't deal any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line.You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?Don't see terror as an issue, but this is not really an argument here.That's my whole point.You haven't understood.My point was that Terror is not an issue because if it doesn't CC (i.e. the target has stability) then no damage will happen, and no CC will happen, the same as other CC skills that land on stability.How is that the same?If another hard CC skill hits, then you get cced, but the skill itself still does no damage because they changed all the power coefficients to 0,01.If fear lands with terror on the other hand, then both cc and damage happen. Because terror makes that hard cc skill deal actual damage while other hard cc skills won't deal any.Well, sure, if you start talking about a totally different scenario, then it is no longer the same.But I wasn't talking about that scenario was I? Do try to follow along.If I say "the sky is blue" and you say "but snow is cold, you're wrong", it's like..... ummmm, yeah, okay? I wasn't talking about the temperature of snow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line.You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?Don't see terror as an issue, but this is not really an argument here.That's my whole point.You haven't understood.My point was that Terror is not an issue because if it doesn't CC (i.e. the target has stability) then no damage will happen, and no CC will happen, the same as other CC skills that land on stability.How is that the same?If another hard CC skill hits, then you get cced, but the skill itself still does no damage because they changed all the power coefficients to 0,01.If fear lands with terror on the other hand, then both cc and damage happen. Because terror makes that hard cc skill deal actual damage while other hard cc skills won't deal any.Because you have to give up path of corruption for Terror it means less boon corrupting power in the necormancers kit to eat your boons.Fear damage requires 2 traits to be made effective from 2 different traitlines.Not only do you need Terror you also need Fear of death to actually make it do any damage thats relevant Thats two traits to make a conditional cc which has more counters than any other cc type in the game do damage for 1.5 - 2s at best.Fun fact did you know fear can be removed with a weapon swap (you cant remove stuns or dazes with weapon swaps) and several weapon skills that are instant can still be used while under the fear condition unlike while under hard cc like stuns /dazeResistance makes fear not workStability also makes fear not work (i dont recommend it against necromancers) Maybe if you ask they will give your cc damage back the only twist is that you must take 2 traits way out of the way of what you would normally build to make them do damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @ArthurDent.9538 said:Maybe blanket nerfing all hard CC's to .01 power scaling was always a kind of stupid idea in the first place.I can only partly agree with this there were certainly some CC skills doing way too much when you get stunned for 2s and take 8k damage at the same time thats a bit insane..... Going no crit for the majority of them would have probably been better. Some of them certainly do need to be at the .01 power scaling though.Then you have the odd ball ones like Reaper 5 and Warrior Headbutt that actually certainly and more than likely should still do damage. But if we are going to keep things more in line going forward i would rather see other changes maybe if the damage is not coming back. The moment one or two professions get a nice chunk of damage back on some of the slower big tell CC's is the day people start to complain about how unfair those CC skills are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @ZDragon.3046 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line.You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?Don't see terror as an issue, but this is not really an argument here.That's my whole point.You haven't understood.My point was that Terror is not an issue because if it doesn't CC (i.e. the target has stability) then no damage will happen, and no CC will happen, the same as other CC skills that land on stability.How is that the same?If another hard CC skill hits, then you get cced, but the skill itself still does no damage because they changed all the power coefficients to 0,01.If fear lands with terror on the other hand, then both cc and damage happen. Because terror makes that hard cc skill deal actual damage while other hard cc skills won't deal any.Because you have to give up path of corruption for Terror it means less boon corrupting power in the necormancers kit to eat your boons.Fear damage requires 2 traits to be made effective from 2 different traitlines.Not only do you need Terror you also need Fear of death to actually make it do any damage thats relevant Thats two traits to make a conditional cc which has more counters than any other cc type in the game do damage for 1.5 - 2s at best.Fun fact did you know fear can be removed with a weapon swap (you cant remove stuns or dazes with weapon swaps) and several weapon skills that are instant can still be used while under the fear condition unlike while under hard cc like stuns /dazeResistance makes fear not workStability also makes fear not work (i dont recommend it against necromancers) Maybe if you ask they will give your cc damage back the only twist is that you must take 2 traits way out of the way of what you would normally build to make them do damage.I am fairly sure that instant cast abilities are castable even under hard ccs like stuns or dazes.Was extremely fun back then when medic gyro was an instant cast healing skill, enabling me to use my healing skill even when I was stunlocked.About fear getting removed by weapon swap, that surely does require a sigill, doesn't it?I highly doubt that weapon swap in general removes that condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimjack.8130 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Ragnar.4257 said:A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.It is in line.You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?Don't see terror as an issue, but this is not really an argument here.That's my whole point.You haven't understood.My point was that Terror is not an issue because if it doesn't CC (i.e. the target has stability) then no damage will happen, and no CC will happen, the same as other CC skills that land on stability.How is that the same?If another hard CC skill hits, then you get cced, but the skill itself still does no damage because they changed all the power coefficients to 0,01.If fear lands with terror on the other hand, then both cc and damage happen. Because terror makes that hard cc skill deal actual damage while other hard cc skills won't deal any.Your reading ability is in the negatives. If a Fearw/ Terror lands into someone with stability you get nothing. If a pre nerf CC hit someone with stability, it would still do 2k+ damage. If either hits someone with stability NOW, they both do 0 damage. Understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @"Ovark.2514" said:February patch was intended to remove damage from CC yet we still have to deal with this mess. Terror is by far the most egregious of the traits which deal damage to CC'd foes. Literally every neco is using the exact same 3 utility skills: Wurm, Spectral Walk, and Spectral Ring. If Terror needs to exist, why not have it deal damage at the END of the fear as long as it wasn't cleansed/stun-broken; that way there is some way to avoid the damage. Better yet, why not have fear last longer but lose it's CC component when Terror trait is taken.Isn't that cool, you just need to memorize the functionality of only 3 skills to be able to counter "literally every necro".Get a freaking stunbreak! Seriously... that's competitive mode basics. And if you want to destroy that necro, then get two stuns - that's one more than he can handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine.8204 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @Ovark.2514 said:February patch was intended to remove damage from CC yet we still have to deal with this mess. Terror is by far the most egregious of the traits which deal damage to CC'd foes. Literally every neco is using the exact same 3 utility skills: Wurm, Spectral Walk, and Spectral Ring. If Terror needs to exist, why not have it deal damage at the END of the fear as long as it wasn't cleansed/stun-broken; that way there is some way to avoid the damage. Better yet, why not have fear last longer but lose it's CC component when Terror trait is taken. i don't use terror, and i dont use spectral ring (never have used spectral ring). im rank 39 right now as a solo queue necro. i dont even use wurm anymore, again.... rank 39...you're wrong.terror at its peak is like an 8% damage increase for my build in a 1v1. it deals about 1k per tick, for a maximum of about 3k with 1 fear.3k which can be interrupted or completely negated by either stun break or condi cleanse.i didnt use terror or spectral ring last season either, and ended up rank 44 and rank 53. as a solo queue necro. (two accounts, both purely solo queued)people also complain about lich..... which i also dont use, and never used. plaguelands is better for conquest, lich is easily countered in comparison. im really bored of these posts complaining about every trait i don't use as a high tier necro player. if they were broken i'd be using them, but they aren't so i'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 @Caine.8204 said:people also complain about lich..... which i also dont use, and never used. plaguelands is better for conquest, lich is easily countered in comparison. I wouldn't say plaguelands is THAT MUCH better for conquest, but lich is just so easily countered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levijeh.9643 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Someone got fear chained for quite a long. And I think you play a power spec on ranger am I right?, how on earth? I think most rangers have like 3 stunbreakers on it's one of the classes that are hard to chain fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovark.2514 Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 @Levijeh.9643 said:Someone got fear chained for quite a long. And I think you play a power spec on ranger am I right?, how on earth? I think most rangers have like 3 stunbreakers on it's one of the classes that are hard to chain fear.If you're asking ME if I take a power spec on ranger then yes: From start of HoT until about a year ago. Now ranger is booooooooring and even cheesier than when I played it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine.8204 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 @Ovark.2514 said:@Levijeh.9643 said:Someone got fear chained for quite a long. And I think you play a power spec on ranger am I right?, how on earth? I think most rangers have like 3 stunbreakers on it's one of the classes that are hard to chain fear.If you're asking ME if I take a power spec on ranger then yes: From start of HoT until about a year ago. Now ranger is booooooooring and even cheesier than when I played it. then you really should have no issue, because necros are slow as molasses, and you have plenty of stun breaks/condi removals/evades/blocks/knockbacks/stuns.trait isnt even broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 @Caine.8204 said:because necros are slow as molassesI don't know what a molasses is but it better be fast af, because the necro I know outruns mesmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caine.8204 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 @Tayga.3192 said:@"Caine.8204" said:because necros are slow as molassesI don't know what a molasses is but it better be fast af, because the necro I know outruns mesmerthe rune that buffs swiftness is not a necro-only mechanic, and they reduce their damage done by taking it instead of something else. take off their swiftness = slowest class in the game. should be pretty easy considering they only have access to like 3 boons, and two applications of swiftness altogether if they are running warhorn + spectral walk. you remove the swiftness once, and they cant apply it again for a long time.and dont come at me with the "they have a swiftness trait that gives it whenever they activate shroud". that competes with unblockable staff skills, and no good necro player would even bother replacing that trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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