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Which profession can outplay everything?


whoknocks.4935

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My question might seem dumb, but after playing lot of wvw in solo roaming i am wondering which is for you the class that can outplay every other profession if played right or at least has the most favourable matchups.

I give you a example:If i roam with reaper or necro i constantly find rangers and no matter how i play perfectly they simply counter me and win.

If i decide to go power mesmer i always find thieves that destroys me in seconds (and it's normal). If elementalist, tempest or weaver i find always the toxic condition boy that spam condis nonstop and end up kill me.

So in your opinion which is the best build or profession to outplay and and have a chance of killing everything?

Of course i know skill matters to play well every profession.

Thanks :D

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I've seen some amazing play by one rev.I've seen eles that seem to never die.I've seen thieves that can never be caught.I've seen enigneers that seem invincible.

They all require uncommon amounts of talent to produce this effect, but surely skill should not be a crutch? How come unskilled players are punished just for being who they are?

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@"Svarty.8019" said:I've seen some amazing play by one rev.I've seen eles that seem to never die.I've seen thieves that can never be caught.I've seen enigneers that seem invincible.

They all require uncommon amounts of talent to produce this effect, but surely skill should not be a crutch? How come unskilled players are punished just for being who they are?

Maybe the unskilled players should practice until they become skilled? People aren't just born good at things. All those amazing players you meet have probably been playing and improving their skills for a long time. Of course, if someone just keeps telling themself "I'm unskilled because that's just who I am", they will probably never get better.

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@Opal.9324 said:

@"Svarty.8019" said:I've seen some amazing play by
one
rev.I've seen eles that seem to never die.I've seen thieves that can never be caught.I've seen enigneers that seem invincible.

They all require uncommon amounts of talent to produce this effect, but surely skill should not be a crutch? How come unskilled players are punished just for being who they are?

Maybe the unskilled players should practice until they become skilled? People aren't just born good at things. All those amazing players you meet have probably been playing and improving their skills for a long time. Of course, if someone just keeps telling themself "I'm unskilled because that's just who I am", they will probably never get better.

That's a very tropey response. I'm sure I've seen it a hundred times or more. Doubtless, it's easy for people to type because they know there are lots of people who agree that skill SHOULD dominate. There's a certain, twisted logic to that thought pattern.... but it's boring.Unskilled players can be unskilled because of circumstances;

  • Disability
  • Age - it's known that old folks lose their twitchiness.
  • Time - some people have real lives, and CAN'T dedicate the time to the game that they'd like to.

That's not to say that every unskilled player fits into one of these categories, some just don't care about how well they do, but the gap between skilled and unskilled in GW2 is such that even a slightly less skilled player can NEVER EVER beat someone better than them. That's poor design.

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@Svarty.8019 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:I've seen some amazing play by
one
rev.I've seen eles that seem to never die.I've seen thieves that can never be caught.I've seen enigneers that seem invincible.

They all require uncommon amounts of talent to produce this effect, but surely skill should not be a crutch? How come unskilled players are punished just for being who they are?

Maybe the unskilled players should practice until they become skilled? People aren't just born good at things. All those amazing players you meet have probably been playing and improving their skills for a long time. Of course, if someone just keeps telling themself "I'm unskilled because that's just who I am", they will probably never get better.

That's a very tropey response. I'm sure I've seen it a hundred times or more. Doubtless, it's easy for people to type because they know there are lots of people who agree that skill SHOULD dominate. There's a certain, twisted logic to that thought pattern.... but it's boring.Unskilled players can be unskilled because of circumstances;
  • Disability
  • Age - it's known that old folks lose their twitchiness.
  • Time - some people have real lives, and CAN'T dedicate the time to the game that they'd like to.

That's not to say that every unskilled player fits into one of these categories, some just don't care about how well they do, but the gap between skilled and unskilled in GW2 is such that even a slightly less skilled player can NEVER EVER beat someone better than them. That's poor design.

That's not poor design, that is the nature of skill basically everywhere.

You are basically telling me that sports like kendo, for example, are badly designed just because I can't realistically beat someone who has the 8th dan?No. There might be circumstances to it, maybe I am disabled, maybe I don't have as much time to train kendo as I would like to, maybe I am older and therfore can't react as fast as a younger opponent.

But this is just the nature of things like these. Kendo as a sport is not badly designed just because I can't beat someone who has dedicated way more time and work in training it than I did.

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Ranger

Mobility, longbow and tons of immobilize options has the potential to counter everything. The target has only one option to stall the fight, which is breaking LOS. But breaking LOS alone won't win fights for you.

The damage of a durable ranger build isn't that great but you will lose the attrition battle against every semi decent one eventually.

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@KrHome.1920 said:Ranger

Mobility, longbow and tons of immobilize options has the potential to counter everything. The target has only one option to stall the fight, which is breaking LOS. But breaking LOS alone won't win fights for you.

The damage of a durable ranger build isn't that great but you will lose the attrition battle against every semi decent one eventually.

I just don't see how ranger could win against thief.

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None.

I roam on all classes and don't find any that rule them all. There are some that do better against others though but it's less the class versus build against build or archetype versus archetype. Any range class versus melee will have an edge if they can keep distance. But a melee that is hunting range should already be decked out for gap closers and lockdowns. I would say this statement by itself is a reason that the nerf hit that all CC attacks should do no damage should be reviewed. Take Warrior, Bulls Charge should do damage since it needs to both do the gap closer and attack else it loses an unproportional amount of its balancing in a range versus melee fight. Nerfing ranged CC and damage might be different story.

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D/D Air Barrier Weaver as a solo roamer is probably your most consistent bet 1v1 and sometimes 1vX. In addition to winning most of the 1v1s you encounter, anytime you're not winning you can literally just run away with superspeed/barrier/heals to keep you alive while doing it.

Power Barrier Scrapper does extremely well vs the vast majority of matchups 1v1 (sometimes 1vX) as well and is basically in the same nature as D/D Air barrier weaver, you can run away with perma-superspeed while healing, gaining barrier, boons etc ..

Aside from that I would recommend thief, although I have no builds in particular to recommend because I don't play thief very much anymore.

Weaver/ele Build (take lightning flash instead of primordial stance if you prefer)http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAgilVwkYPsImJWUXbvXA-z1YYhgGqRTRE3O0egnRsSgeVAS9SIgufARAvmXcGB-w

Scrapper/engi Build (switch 1 or 2 trinkets to berserker if you'd prefer to be slightly glassier)http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAIJlFw8YOsKWKO8TZtPA-zVZYBRVHxYQgGBtdINJMiVi0rKwwXgA618izIA-w

Weaver/ele video of build if you're skeptical

Scrapper/engi video of build if you're skeptical

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The answer is the Thief (the way that the topic was framed and the question phrased) and no other answer is informed or honest.

If you are mainly looking to play and survive the Thief is the only class that can pick their fights at will and even reset their fights at will should they choose not to commit after engaging.

This also makes Thieves end up in this situation even just past the skill floor. You don't have to be particularily good at the class to pick your fights and escape them if they turn out less than ideal. This allows you to beat any class, even if you can not beat every player, by never really losing unless you commit to the fight to get caught.

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EZ answer number 1:

wvw devs

If we are still playing this mess ... its cos we keep getting outplayed HARD by them

"HOW?" u going to say.

...well... EZ answer number 2 :

  • BALANCE patch
  • WvW rework
  • Competitive class reworks
  • Alliances
  • World Restructuring

While in reality all they did was adding GLIDERS and MOUNTS to milk the wvw comunity and at this point we f. deserve it lol.

BUT hey ,they also managed to "inadvertently reset NA WvW matches" and a messed up realm linking

ps: i guess i will get moderated for this see ya in 4 months cheers

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@subversiontwo.7501 said:The answer is the Thief (the way that the topic was framed and the question phrased) and no other answer is informed or honest.

If you are mainly looking to play and survive the Thief is the only class that can pick their fights at will and even reset their fights at will should they choose not to commit after engaging.

This also makes Thieves end up in this situation even just past the skill floor. You don't have to be particularily good at the class to pick your fights and escape them if they turn out less than ideal. This allows you to beat any class, even if you can not beat every player, by never really losing unless you commit to the fight to get caught.

Yes and no. Thief is not the only one. Many ele/engi players get frustrated and conclude that it's not viable. This is not the case. Both are very OP in the right hands, just like thief is. To say that any other answer is uninformed, when you seem very uninformed about the reality of Weaver/Scrapper is ... very uninformed. I almost never lose 1v1 with these builds, that's not an ego-stroke, I'm just saying this so people can see the truth. They're REALLY good builds if you play it well in WvW. It's a different story in sPvP.

@"solemn.9608" said:D/D Air Barrier Weaver as a solo roamer is probably your most consistent bet 1v1 and sometimes 1vX. In addition to winning most of the 1v1s you encounter, anytime you're not winning you can literally just run away with superspeed/barrier/heals to keep you alive while doing it.

Power Barrier Scrapper does extremely well vs the vast majority of matchups 1v1 (sometimes 1vX) as well and is basically in the same nature as D/D Air barrier weaver, you can run away with perma-superspeed while healing, gaining barrier, boons etc ..

Aside from that I would recommend thief, although I have no builds in particular to recommend because I don't play thief very much anymore.

Weaver/ele Build (take lightning flash instead of primordial stance if you prefer)http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAgilVwkYPsImJWUXbvXA-z1YYhgGqRTRE3O0egnRsSgeVAS9SIgufARAvmXcGB-w

Scrapper/engi Build (switch 1 or 2 trinkets to berserker if you'd prefer to be slightly glassier)http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAIJlFw8YOsKWKO8TZtPA-zVZYBRVHxYQgGBtdINJMiVi0rKwwXgA618izIA-w

Weaver/ele video of build if you're skeptical

Scrapper/engi video of build if you're skeptical

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Thieves and Mesmers can be insufferably annoying to fight because they have access to a lot of stealth and teleports.If you can't lock them down then they'll very like escape.

Rev's have been pretty notorious of late as very hard to kill powerhouses.I've seen Revs survive against several players coming after them and still put up hell of a fight in the process.Add a support player to that to keep healing and buffing the Rev as well and you've got a 2 man combo that can take on a small squad on their own.Had to deal with that one yesterday.. it took about 9 of us to take down just two players, the Rev just wouldn't take any damage.. like at all and the Druid was being supported by the Rev as well healing it and knocking players away etcWe won but they held their own surprisingly well.Only thing they really couldn't do was finish off any downed players because we could revive them too fast for them to kill.. if there was no downstate in WvW this combo would have screwed us lol.

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I agree with the previous poster.

While thief and mirage are strong in getting to choose or not their winning engagements, Condi Rev is by far the strongest 1vX roamer in the current meta. I play celestial ele, power and condi rev, ranger, burn guard, mirage and necro and it easily outshines them all in ease of use, power, and durability. Especially made clear in Arcdps.

Just run a Celestial or Trailblazer geared Condi Rev with Mallyx and Glint with Antitoxin Runes. After a little practice mastering the playstyle it has far better escapes, combo field burst, and tankiness then the other 1vx roamers out there in current meta.

Give it a try and see for yourself.

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@subversiontwo.7501 said:The answer is the Thief (the way that the topic was framed and the question phrased) and no other answer is informed or honest.

If you are mainly looking to play and survive the Thief is the only class that can pick their fights at will and even reset their fights at will should they choose not to commit after engaging.

This also makes Thieves end up in this situation even just past the skill floor. You don't have to be particularily good at the class to pick your fights and escape them if they turn out less than ideal. This allows you to beat any class, even if you can not beat every player, by never really losing unless you commit to the fight to get caught.

You don't have to be particularly good as long as the other side sucks more. Otherwise no, if you're not a good player as a thief you're just going to get blown up by everyone. If a fight is less than ideal then you're getting pulled and locked down and if you're only a passable player you're pretty much a free kill for someone.

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@whoknocks.4935 said:My question might seem dumb, but after playing lot of wvw in solo roaming i am wondering which is for you the class that can outplay every other profession if played right or at least has the most favourable matchups.

I give you a example:If i roam with reaper or necro i constantly find rangers and no matter how i play perfectly they simply counter me and win.

If i decide to go power mesmer i always find thieves that destroys me in seconds (and it's normal). If elementalist, tempest or weaver i find always the toxic condition boy that spam condis nonstop and end up kill me.

So in your opinion which is the best build or profession to outplay and and have a chance of killing everything?

Of course i know skill matters to play well every profession.

Thanks :D

A class wont outplay anything, a player does. In your situation, that being solo roaming, both Thief and Ranger are going to be top picks. High mobility in and out of combat, both have stealth to cover escape, Ranger less so, but by the time stealth expires, you will be 2,000 units away and OOC, mount up and gone. Both have good access to CC, both are good duelists, etc etc. However, being a bad player on either is still going to result in you getting killed, though both have ALL the tools needed to be top tier solo roamers. That does not mean roaming can't be done on all classes, it also does not mean a better player can't kill you on either of those.

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I'd have to say thief, since even if their opponent ends up being Chuck Norris, a thief can just opt to not engage at all.

and how is that "out playing someone" ? what if enemy is at a camp and thief comes to defened only to not engage at all, camp is lost. thats top play there lol

Funny enough, that very thing happened to me this morning while doing dailies on my DH. A DE came to defend a camp, and sure while stealthed he cannot contest the ring, but he wasn't in perma stealth, just vanished + repositoned repeatedly and took pot shots at me until I was downed. Hard to do any damage when there is nothing to hit, and no real cover to hide behind inside the ring.

Stark contrast to the clueless DD who tried to LOS me while contesting a different camp, that I just baited into a DH trap and burst him down.

Reality is, a skilled thief can almost always escape a fight

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@Junkpile.7439 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Ranger

Mobility, longbow and tons of immobilize options has the potential to counter everything. The target has only one option to stall the fight, which is breaking LOS. But breaking LOS alone won't win fights for you.

The damage of a durable ranger build isn't that great but you will lose the attrition battle against every semi decent one eventually.

I just don't see how ranger could win against thief.

If you are a really good thief then yes you win... otherwise my soulbeast will kill you.. seriously I kill more thiefs than thiefs kill me. Unless they run away which many do.

The bottom line as some have suggested above is that you just really need to be GOOD at your class. I've killed every class but the hardest to kill, for me, has been engi and ele followed by warrior, generally speaking. But any of these classes can kick my butt if they know how to play.. and THAT is the key. It's not the class.. it's how good you are.. period.

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