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HoT = Dark Souls ? Casual Gamer perspective.


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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Viger.1347 said:New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the gameyou also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

I said it was a good wake up call for ME personally, never spoke for everyone. There's nothing "wrong" about that at all.

And why wouldn't it be necessary for players to learn and get used to more difficult mechanics and mobs? You need to start somewhere. Better to practice and learn in world content at your own pace than potentially waste time in grouped content like fractals, raids, missions etc where other players may not have the patience for you to learn mechanics.

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@"battledrone.8315" said:if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

The core game which sold 5 million never had 5000 active instances either. If it was so popular it should've had (using your number) 25000 ACTIVE instances, but it never had that many. Not even close

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@ASP.8093 said:What I find so confusing about this "HoT dropped difficulty out of nowhere" narrative is that stuff like Toxic Alliance or Season 2 Mordrem did kinda prepare you for HoT monsters pretty well, imo.

never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTWthe names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO

You're joking, right? This is a bit?

Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do..

Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now.

If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there.

Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong.

so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ONkilling players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the gamei cant believe the bad leadership in this company

Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

Oh, right. I forget the premise is that core is super popular and has millions of players. LoL Good luck with that one.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Viger.1347 said:New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the gameyou also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

HoT was the cure to the core game which drove players away with its lack of anything challenging or interesting for players to do. It may have been too little, too late, but it saved the game. See? I can make up my own narratives, too! It's fun!

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Viger.1347 said:New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the gameyou also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

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@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@"Viger.1347" said:New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

New content and expectation of the game getting its difficulty levels ramped up seeing how it starts at level 80 (after plenty of time to get familiarized with available classes/builds, game mechanics and getting appropriate gear on the way) instead of being a 1-80 tutorial zone?

...but if you enjoy smashing mobs by pressing 1 and never losing hp then WHY DID YOU EVER MOVE OUT OF THE STARTING ZONES? WHY??? Just stay there and keep that "1" button pressed, apparently that's all the fun and variety you need?

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Viger.1347 said:New player here who is currently going through the HoT content and story mode.

The first thing I noticed was how difficult it was initially, mobs seem to hit harder, have more health and more abilities. Map traversal is often very confusing and quite frustrating at times, places of power are difficult to get to and some hero points are too challenging to achieve without the aid of others.

So as a new and self-confessed casual player, yeah, I would agree that HoT content is difficult. But I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue is that core Tyria content was such a breeze and so mind numbingly easy that you kind of got too used to the game being like that. And then you enter HoT and the open world/PvE content is vastly more challenging to the point where it feels like a Dark Souls game. But it's the sudden leap in difficulty that I believe is where the issue is, if core Tyria content actually got more difficult the further you leveled and progressed into the story, then that difficulty curve wouldn't be as steep going into HoT.

The challenge of HoT content was a good wake up call for me personally. In HoT you definitely need to start paying more attention to your surroundings and pattern of enemies, and you actually need to start working on a proper build for your character by utilizing more defensive abilities and working out a proper combat rotation. I believe the difficulty of HoT is a necessary learning curve for all players, however like I said, that learning and difficulty curve going from core to HoT is very steep and can be off-putting to some players.

Quick edit: I just wanted to say that I haven't played any of the seasons, so I don't know if those pre-HoT seasons ease the difficulty curve going into HoT. Speaking purely from the perspective of someone who went from core straight into HoT.

but if you didnt like the "numbingly easy" gameplay in core, WHY DID YOU STAY AND BUY THE EXPANSION?WHY???

What does this even mean? I never said anything about liking or disliking core Tyria. I just said it's easy when compared to HoT.

yep, and that is the problem. you said hot was a "good wake up call". that is clearly wrong, since it drove so many players away from the gameyou also believe it is "necessary". a point most of the other players disagreed with

How do you know how many players it "drove away"? How do you know what exactly "drove away" the players that stopped playing at any given moment of the game development? Do you really believe that people stuck with core repeatedly pressing one key without any challenging content or change to the way they need to play isn't driving people away simply by being boring/repetitive?

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

@kraai.7265 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

I also prefer Core so technically its "we" and so did the op.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

The core game which sold 5 million never had 5000 active instances either. If it was so popular it should've had (using your number) 25000 ACTIVE instances, but it never had that many. Not even close

and that is industry standard. they still had over a mio players, that was ready for more. a number, that was magically halfed with the arrival pof.i expect pof to to have roughly the same effect. now youre looking at 200-300 k sales for cantha. i wont be surprised if ncsoft has to step in again

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@ASP.8093 said:

@ASP.8093 said:What I find so confusing about this "HoT dropped difficulty out of nowhere" narrative is that stuff like Toxic Alliance or Season 2 Mordrem did kinda prepare you for HoT monsters pretty well, imo.

never touched those, and i doubt the average player even know of their existance. neither did i BTWthe names alone are enough to put them at the bottom of my to do list, sound like hardcore stuff IMO

You're joking, right? This is a bit?

Nope i'm the same didn't know those existed and don't really care that they do..

Toxic Alliance events spawn in starter-adjacent zones like Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields. It's the big scary flower that gives you hallucinations, defended by Krait, Hulks, and Nightmare Court Knights that you have to stomp to death. These are actually baddies from Season 1 story but they're just part of the normal maps now.

If you play the Season 2 story or even just the maps (Dry Top and Silverwastes), you will run into Mordrem like Terragriffs (the griffon-looking things that hit really hard) and Trashers (the spinny boys). The new enemies for HoT are the Mordrem Guard, the Chakk, and the various dinos. Other types of Mordrem are introduced slowly before you get there.

Oh those yeah i tried those and got wiped never went back i thought they were some team event gone wrong.

so, they are nerfing content with one hand, but they are using the other to do THIS?thats like revving the engine to full power and still having the BREAKS ONkilling players in core with this kitten doesnt make them "better", it just makes them want to quit the gamei cant believe the bad leadership in this company

Technically doesn't make them quit so much as it makes most avoid said content completely.. Go to any Tyria map and check these Hot events and let me know how many people successfully complete them.. its very few.. most see them and avoid like a plague, usually after their first solo death, i've ressed countless poor souls who attempted those towers..And even i forgot this content existed, if anet remove these tomorrow no one would care.

HoT metas are completed 'round the clock, despite requiring large numbers of players. HP trains are also ubiquitous. It's always been this way, despite haters predicting the death of these maps. They are clearly popular, no matter how much you love to hate them.

if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

Oh, right. I forget the premise is that core is super popular and has millions of players. LoL Good luck with that one.

yep, a 7 year old mmo without expansions isnt as populated, as it was at launch, what a shocker....

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@kraai.7265 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

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@Dante.1508 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.

LFG listings disagree with POF maps being as popular as HOT maps. I'm sure you have enough data to support otherwise.And as for your argument about rewards I thought casual players play for fun and not rewards. I guess that's wrong.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:if they were "popular", there would be more than a handful instances. 1 mio hot players would require something like 5000 ACTIVE instances.now count them , and compare the numbers. having a handful of them is "functional", nothing more

The core game which sold 5 million never had 5000 active instances either. If it was so popular it should've had (using your number) 25000 ACTIVE instances, but it never had that many. Not even close

and that is industry standard. they still had over a mio players, that was ready for more. a number, that was magically halfed with the arrival pof.i expect pof to to have roughly the same effect. now youre looking at 200-300 k sales for cantha. i wont be surprised if ncsoft has to step in again

How do you figure they had over a million players when HOT launched?Your source about that number halved with the arrival of POF?

So let me get this, it's industry standard for a game to lose 90% of their playerbase and no cause for concern, or cause for that core game to make changes, but if an expansion loses players it's the end of the world and it's not an industry standard. Nice logic there

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HOT is indeed a lot harder than any of the GW2 content, but I wouldn't want it changed.

Yes, hero points often can't be solood. But it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to ask in map chat for players to help out. Players in GW2 are very helpful and there are often large groups of players flocking through HoT's maps.

No, it isn't Dark Souls hard. Dark Souls is easier than most of HoT's content and more forgiving. Bosses in DS all have clear tells and windups to attacks, and almost any build can take down almost any boss. Plus the game allows you to outlevel your opponents, eventually making any fight a breeze.

You've simply run into the first true obstacle in GW2: content that is a bit of a challenge. Now you may find that the builds you've been using all this time aren't good enough. And since GW2's tells and windups aren't as good as in Dark Souls, and the effect spam creates a lot of visual noise, it can be hard to see attacks coming. It all comes down to memorization, and using a build that allows you to endure a couple of hits.

Yes, the map design is frustrating to navigate. It is what it is. Vertical maps are a pain.

Yes, mobs are much tougher and more deadly than anywhere else in the game. But I think it is important to note why they are so much tougher. It's because most builds are really really bad. Players either go full glas cannon, with no defensive traits or skills what so ever, or they just do so little damage, that combat takes forever. I needed to revise my own build to deal with HoT, but I don't think that's a bad thing. HoT mobs also spam a lot of conditions, so condition removal is a lot more important here than anywhere else in the game.

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@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:HOT is indeed a lot harder than any of the GW2 content, but I wouldn't want it changed.

Yes, hero points often can't be solood. But it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to ask in map chat for players to help out. Players in GW2 are very helpful and there are often large groups of players flocking through HoT's maps.

No, it isn't Dark Souls hard. Dark Souls is easier than HoT's content and more forgiving. You've simply run into the first true obstacle in the game: content that is a bit of a challenge, and now you may find that the builds you've been using all this time aren't good enough.

Yes, the map design is frustrating to navigate. It is what it is. Vertical maps are a pain.

Yes, mobs are much tougher and more deadly than anywhere else in the game. But I think it is important to note why they are so much tougher. It's because most builds are really really bad. Players either go full glas cannon, with no defensive traits or skills what so ever, or they just do so little damage, that combat takes forever. I needed to revise my own build to deal with HoT, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

Build issue is kinda a result of core. Core does not really matter much what build you use so you end up with the thinking what you run is great then hot comes and shows you werent as good you thought then a mmo is designed for solo it kinda failed its s a mmo you are after all supposed to play with others. Most issues could be solved by ramping difficulty up slowly in core so a learning curve exist

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Build issue is kinda a result of core. Core does not really matter much what build you use so you end up with the thinking what you run is great then hot comes and shows you werent as good you thought then a mmo is designed for solo it kinda failed its s a mmo you are after all supposed to play with others. Most issues could be solved by ramping difficulty up slowly in core so a learning curve exist

You have hit the nail on the head. Indeed the core game does a very poor job preparing players for the harder content in HoT. It also doesn't teach players how to make builds; they are left to figure that out for themselves, and many players never figure it out at all. Path of Fire and Fractals are much better tutorials for some of the more complex boss mechanics and the breakbar, but they may might not be the first content that players turn to after finishing the core campaign.

And how is a player supposed to know which insignia's to use and which runes? The default assumption would be that they all serve a purpose, but they don't. Some are just terrible, and that greatly affects how easy or hard the game is for you. When I just started playing the game, I invested a lot in toughness, thinking that would make me more resilient. But I eventually learned through frustration and shame about the diminishing returns of toughness. The game doesn't actually teach you that.

So if you go straight into Heart of Thorns right after beating the core game, with the same build, you are probably going to have a bad time. Foes hit hard in HoT, and they spam conditions like crazy. They have attacks and abilities that are not found anywhere in the core game, and they have attacks that you actually need to dodge. Understanding the breakbar also becomes a lot more important.

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@Dante.1508 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?
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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

They didn't nerf the right aspects, thats the issue, at least my issue..

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@Dante.1508 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.Do we really need to search for the number of times you've said you are no longer playing this game?Because the posts are there.
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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Dante.1508 said:HoT instances are only popular due to rewards.. If Tyria had the same rewards HOT would die over night.

POF maps have the same rewards, require far less people to complete AND take far less time to complete. Yet they are much less populated than HOT maps. Makes you think right? And I thought the majority of players that play this game are casuals that enjoy the Core game, then how do you explain that more players play outside of it? How do you explain that Core Tyria was dead until the August 2013 patch hit? If players enjoyed it so much that is

No it doesn't POF maps are highly unstable, but on a whole are just as popular as HoT. I play Core Tyria all the time and the maps don't seem dead at all, there are lots of customers in them.You've stated over the past several weeks many times that you quit this game for SWTOR.And now you are on Core maps "all the time"?

I play Both, i also play Fallout 76 and Kingdoms of Amalur Re-Reckoning.. Your point is? Of course i play Tyria maps when i'm not trying to get characters through the stories, or chase hero points.. I'm not a sadist i prefer a less tough time in gaming.Do we really need to search for the number of times you've said you are no longer playing this game?Because the posts are there.

I do i take breaks my last break was 9 months.. I come back hoping the game will get overhauls in the direction it was sold to me as at GW2 release. Nothing you say will ever change that.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AdamWarlord.6782" said:Edit: This post is to voice a percentage of player base's opinion(may it be a minority, majority, or even just me) on HoT including mine.
I have nothing less than love for the game Devs and the community
. I have been playing for 2-3 years atleast, and have played some GW1 back in the day. Im not just throwing shade on the HoT content.
I am trying to voice my opinion and my experience in a straightforward manner.

Alright, so i just finished up my online classes and studies for my upcoming third year exams and I sit to do my daily completion of a legendary, going on for weeks now. As you can understand, i don't have more than maybe 2-3 hours to play at best. Completion of Eternity and other core legendary weapons took time, but atleast it was doable without frustration and having "fun". When it comes to HoT, I don't know what i am even doing. I am trying to go around the map 90% of the time trying not to die because the floor minion mobs are so OVERPOWERED. I have been playing the game for 2 years, and i have avoided HoT every chance i got because of the same exact reasons i am about to mention.
  1. Its very hard to see, hate the map design and how dark it is in 70% of the places.
  2. Lags way too much on my mid end laptop.
  3. Floor mobs are wayy too overpowered and feel like boss mobs.
  4. Hence because of the same reason above, VERY hard to level up the masteries.
  5. Why do masteries you ask? Because there are wayy too many hero points and other aspects of the completion of HoT, which require doing them. Which sucks.
  6. I can't Solo 50% of the hero points, being a max reaper.
  7. WAIT, I NEED TO DO A ADRENALINE MASTERY TO DO A HERO POINT WHICH CONSUMES MY LIFE WHEN I EAT BACON? WHEN MY LIFE POOL IS 22k??
  8. I actually start to rage(sorry for caps above) playing guild wars 2, which is 90% of the time fun, except when i play HoT.
  9. And due to the above reasons i mentioned above, I actually can feel better playing DARK SOULS than HoT.

I also get why they would be reluctant to nerf the mobs more and bring some player driven balance , but atleast 50% if not more gamers are casual on gw2 and want to play not to rage but to have a good time, i don't mind taking months to get my legendary, BUT ATLEAST let the process be fun. I don't want to get grabbed by a rip off stegosaurus while i'm on my raptor and get 2 shot with 22k health. Any balance, related to player level, or player-online time based balance on mobs, a bit more lighting in HoT maps, a bit more of anything. I get HoT is a very old expansion and that Cantha is coming. But atleast respect your players who are trying their hardest to stick to the game and trying to voice their opinions for a change. And of-course please try providing it. Alright! Back to returning to a checkpoint which takes me halfway across the map from the hero point i just died on, and try to re attempt it with broken armor, because there is no repair station nearby, and i don't have a million repair canisters because i'm a casual.

Edit: I realized they have nerfed the difficulty once, i can't imagine what the mobs were like.Edit: I get where most of you all are coming from, But as i said, its my opinion and many other casual gamers opinion on the content. Leading to a player driven balance, not a balance for everyone.

What do you all challenge haters pretend of this game? To be a walk in the park? Do you want anet to turn mobs into freaking paintings? Havn't you had enough with core tyria beeing so freaking easy? do you want mobs to become static with no attack or interaction whatsoever? This is the mentality that drove anet to the mess they are in now, with no clear direction and all sort of players leaving, first they lost almost all pvpers, now they are loosing hardcore pvers, soon they will only have open world bots running around playing for a few months and quitting out of boredom, and all of the ones playing fashion wars standing still in the bank...

its pretty easy: we liked core, and thats what we want MORE of...not something ENTIRELY DIFFERENTquitting the game AFTER you played it, out of BOREDOM, is still better than quitting BEFORE the endif you made a meal for all you friends, and they all put down the fork after one bite, it prolly wasnt that greatbut if they clear the table in record time, and ask for MORE, then it has the quality, that people wil PAY for

First of all "YOU" liked core, not "we".Second, core tyria is hands down one of the most boring experiences I had in all the mmorpgs I've played, you just run around chasing vistas, completing those stupid hearts, yeah it might be cool that gw2 doesn't have any "go kill 50 bulls and come back" quests, yet those freaking hearts are the same or sometimes worst fun wise.There is not even a single mob that can kill you there unless you just afk, even world bosses, the best world boss design you will see it on that black phantom if you start as human, but thats it, a pretty huge mob with 3 crosshairs and a few animations, luckluster, and the endgame are dungeons, which are so easy, and need a huge revamp for so long already, it's pointless.I myself for example started enjoying the pve in this game after reaching hot, the old one, not this crappy nerfed version we got now, not only it's so heavily nerfed you have mounts to even skip the whole maps today, and quitted the game after watching how easy pof was, same as core but with more lag, oh sorry i mean more flashy colors and animations.

the fact, that they nerfed hot is proof, that it didnt do well. and it is not normal to buy expansions in a game, that you HATE.polarization is always bad, and hot has divided the community, where it should had done the oppositepof has many issues too, being easier than hot wont save it. but at least it has normal maps to play on.the kind of gameplay you want prolly wont be in a big mmo (at least not for long)big mmos need many players, and you wont get those without some easy bread&butter content

What proof? See, you don't even undersand why it was nerfed and then you come up with things like that as a supposed argument for your "truths". It got nerfed because after the obvious initial rise of activity when everyone was sitting in hot maps to complete the content/achievements/collections/whatever they wanted AND the release of another expansion+LW episodes, people are divided between zones more than before. Less people in ONE zone, because there's CONSTANTLY more zones in the game equals harder time to gather people needed to complete the content, which wasn't the problem before for obvious reasons. It doesn't prove anything you claim it does and it's perfectly understandable. Stop trying to bend the facts to match your agenda.

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