Please tone down the down state

[senki.1046]

Please devs, down state as it is now, is too strong at the moment. why is the hp pool so big in down state? and why should a winning 1v2 get punished by giving the larger group an even more an advantage?

You don't have to remove it entirely, but it needs definetly a nerf. Also new players agree like summit1g. He can't stand winning outnumbered fights and then get fucked by the down state mechanic. And i think he speaks for a lot of people. Also this mechanic could be a reason, why new players will avoid pvp and wvw.

Please do something about this and pvp and wvw would be much more enjoyable.

[Omega.6801]

Downstate is fine, just get used to it.

[senki.1046]

@lokh.2695 said:Downstate is fine, just get used to it.

No, if someone gets to 0 hp, why should he be rewarded with having more teammates around him, than the 1 person who dealt with more enemies and even brought him to 0 hp? A downstate person should be punished either with death or at least make him very vulnerable in down state and nerf the damage of it. It makes literally no sense having a strong downstate mechanic. Maybe leave it in pve how it is, but pvp and wvw it should be changed. It's a fun killer for a lot of people, more than people enjoying it.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I find myself looking wistfully forward to those rare "no down state" events in WvW. I would love to see the down state removed in the two PvP modes. That's not going to happen, though, because there would be too many demands for refunds on finishers.

With that in mind, the best we can hope for would be nerfs on some down states. I can live with the stability tax inherent in the anti-stomp interrupt skills. However, the classes that already have the most mobility/escapes having even more when you finally do get them down? Wouldn't mind seeing those nerfed to the ground.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

I would want it removed from WvW, but would be happy with changes at least:

• Remove invulnerable frames when going into DS
• Lower HP pool, it was already large and with the big dmg nerf patch, it's made downstate just a dmg sponge
• Lower revive speeds, the fact someone can start a revive instantly (while the DS player can't take dmg) and be revived faster than a stomp started at the same time can finish, should not be a thing.
• Make reviving 1:1
• Remove Rally

This is all for WvW only, I have never had much of a issue with DS in PvP due to the matches being forced even numbers, it's only an issue in WvW because by it's very nature every fight is going to be lopsided and the side with more players gets an advantage from hard rezzing and rally and makes it near impossible for a small skill group to thin out a blob due to aoe cap restrictions also favoring the larger blob. And there is no reason to remove from PvE.

[Lottie.5370]

My biggest problem with downstate is that some classes have a MUCH stronger one than others. If you're a mesmer, thief, engi, ele or rev and you're in a downstate 1v1 with a necro, ranger, warrior or guardian, you have literally no chance.

Four of the classes can really only CC or damage, or go invisible/invulnerable for a few seconds. Ranger has CC and can res itself with its pet, necro lifesteals, and guard can heal itself too. The biggest problem is with ranger/necro though. I think they should both have a reduction to the healing they get from petres/lifesteal.

I wouldn't mind either:

• lower downed health pool (and lower ressing to match it)
• less healing from ressing
• rework downstate skills completely so they feel somewhat balanced

[senki.1046]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:I would want it removed from WvW, but would be happy with changes at least:

• Remove invulnerable frames when going into DS
• Lower HP pool, it was already large and with the big dmg nerf patch, it's made downstate just a dmg sponge
• Lower revive speeds, the fact someone can start a revive instantly (while the DS player can't take dmg) and be revived faster than a stomp started at the same time can finish, should not be a thing.
• Make reviving 1:1
• Remove Rally

This is all for WvW only, I have never had much of a issue with DS in PvP due to the matches being forced even numbers, it's only an issue in WvW because by it's very nature every fight is going to be lopsided and the side with more players gets an advantage from hard rezzing and rally and makes it near impossible for a small skill group to thin out a blob due to aoe cap restrictions also favoring the larger blob. And there is no reason to remove from PvE.

I agree totally with these changes. Please devs, take a note from these points. I think it would help to make WvW and PvP more enjoyable.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@senki.1046 said:

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:I would want it removed from WvW, but would be happy with changes at least:

• Remove invulnerable frames when going into DS
• Lower HP pool, it was already large and with the big dmg nerf patch, it's made downstate just a dmg sponge
• Lower revive speeds, the fact someone can start a revive instantly (while the DS player can't take dmg) and be revived faster than a stomp started at the same time can finish, should not be a thing.
• Make reviving 1:1
• Remove Rally

This is all for WvW only, I have never had much of a issue with DS in PvP due to the matches being forced even numbers, it's only an issue in WvW because by it's very nature every fight is going to be lopsided and the side with more players gets an advantage from hard rezzing and rally and makes it near impossible for a small skill group to thin out a blob due to aoe cap restrictions also favoring the larger blob. And there is no reason to remove from PvE.

I agree totally with these changes. Please devs, take a note from these points. I think it would help to make WvW and PvP more enjoyable.

What is funny is just removing rally would make groups more welcoming to new players or builds out of meta, because "rally bots" would no longer exist, granted being on meta would still be wanted, but at least those new players would not be a negative to the group, because if you die, well, it only effects you.

Just the other day, I had someone rally 3 times in a fight, first time tried to stomp, rally just before it finishes, down them again, try and DPS....Rally at 25% HP, down them AGAIN...I mean why do I have to kill the same person so many times because some random person that is out of position they tagged on the other side of the fight dies?

[Dawdler.8521]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

• Remove invulnerable frames when going into DSThere is a reason this exist though. While it matters little in smallscale, it would be horrid in zergs (especially if adding other nerfs on top).

[TVerhoeven.1350]

Speaking for myself, but the downed state is one of the things that I really like about GW2. If it was nerfed or removed I would stop playing PvP immediately. It's actually very beginner friendly. Although I can understand why more experienced players might have a problem with it, to me it's the reason I continue to play GW2.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

-15 % hp nerf to downstate in pvp/wvw culd be nice

[Vrath.1754]

Everyone speaks for themselves. Summit1g speaks for himself and no one else and his limited 3 or 4 day opinion carries no more weight then anyone else's. Like most opinions that lack experience and information they are less informed.

As for downstate it is fine the game is designed around it. Better players adjust and play around it.

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

@senki.1046 said:

@lokh.2695 said:Downstate is fine, just get used to it.

No, if someone gets to 0 hp, why should he be rewarded with having more teammates around him, than the 1 person who dealt with more enemies and even brought him to 0 hp? A downstate person should be punished either with death or at least make him very vulnerable in down state and nerf the damage of it. It makes literally no sense having a strong downstate mechanic. Maybe leave it in pve how it is, but pvp and wvw it should be changed. It's a fun killer for a lot of people, more than people enjoying it.

Cause the game rewards teamwork over flashy 1v5 mechanics, this isn't a MOBA. If you want to solo kill people go roam in WvW.

@Lottie.5370 said:My biggest problem with downstate is that some classes have a MUCH stronger one than others. If you're a mesmer, thief, engi, ele or rev and you're in a downstate 1v1 with a necro, ranger, warrior or guardian, you have literally no chance.

Four of the classes can really only CC or damage, or go invisible/invulnerable for a few seconds. Ranger has CC and can res itself with its pet, necro lifesteals, and guard can heal itself too. The biggest problem is with ranger/necro though. I think they should both have a reduction to the healing they get from petres/lifesteal.

I wouldn't mind either:

• lower downed health pool (and lower ressing to match it)
• less healing from ressing
• rework downstate skills completely so they feel somewhat balanced

Ranger down is balanced, of course you're going to lose against it 1v1 downed fight, but that scenario is not that frequent to begin with. Ranger and Necro cannot displace themselves when downed, if someone has stability, stealth or blocking, they're pretty much the easiest classes to execute.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

• Remove invulnerable frames when going into DSThere is a reason this exist though. While it matters little in smallscale, it would be horrid in zergs (especially if adding other nerfs on top).

I know why it exists and it's a horrible idea. The larger zerg has time and aoe caps on their side, so they can power rez etc. while the smaller side can't DPS fast enough because of those frames, and trying to stomp in a large scale fight is suicide and a loss of DPS, which matters even more for the smaller side. ALL DS does is support bad players, lazy play and just stacking more people over skill.

People USED to be able to claim I was wrong, but then we had no DS events, and everything I have been saying along with others was proven true. Some of the old skill guilds I used to be in came back to play the event, and guess what? 15-20 people were able to take on a map queue because we were able to thin the zerg with proper positioning and tatics, until we cleared them out. Before, it was nothing but pushing into the blob, getting downs we could not finish because of the massive aoe and aoe caps favoring the huge blob, because of those aoe caps we can't pressure the downs or revivers properly when 60 people are stacked on them. However the opposite is true for us, and trying to stand in that bomb would melt all of us. This is why it's a snowball effect, there is no back and forth to a fight, most start with a bomb and whoever gets downs and rallys first just snowballs into a greater and greater outnumbered fight. When we ran into other skill groups for no DS event, the fights were amazing because they would last so much longer, because we would get a kill, then the other side would get a kill and back and forth until often times only 5-10 people were left because the DS and rally mechanic didn't cause a snowballing effect for one side over the other.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Downstate, especially on some classes is just another example of carry mechanic that this community seems to like as does anet, it's no suprise the "competitive modes" are struggling.That said downstate is fine for a pve environment but should stay there.Wouldn't be so bad if the devs even tried to balance downstate properly.

[Dadnir.5038]

@senki.1046 said:Please devs, down state as it is now, is too strong at the moment. why is the hp pool so big in down state? and why should a winning 1v2 get punished by giving the larger group an even more an advantage?

That's because GW2 got a tool that's meant to stomp downed players and if the health pool was low it would just be more efficient to hit the down player to death. (This tool is being accompagnied with buyable animations, generating potential income for ANet.)

[Evil.1580]

Since you are posting in the PvP section and asking why the guy you killed should be rewarded just because he has a teammate around? It is because the PvP matches are team-oriented. The other guy seems like a smart player if he knows you are better he moves with 1 more player and gets +5 points because the end objective of every match is to reach 500 points faster (at least for 5vs5 and not for the 2vs2 filler). Also, if the health pool is lower why would I ever stomp someone and not just keep attacking him? There is a reason we have a stomp mechanic.

Next week in WvW there won't be a downed state at all :)

[Fueki.4753]

Arenanet needs nerf or remove safe stomps first, then we can think of nerfing down states.Nerfing only one side of the argument only leads to even worse PvP (if that's even possible).

[Avatar.3568]

@senki.1046 said:

@lokh.2695 said:Downstate is fine, just get used to it.

No, if someone gets to 0 hp, why should he be rewarded with having more teammates around him, than the 1 person who dealt with more enemies and even brought him to 0 hp? A downstate person should be punished either with death or at least make him very vulnerable in down state and nerf the damage of it. It makes literally no sense having a strong downstate mechanic. Maybe leave it in pve how it is, but pvp and wvw it should be changed. It's a fun killer for a lot of people, more than people enjoying it.

It's a teamplay feature, for teams

[Avatar.3568]

Like it's part of the game, because they give you the opportunity for a comeback, we had the problem that we wasn't able to rez because you could 1-2 hit downstatts now you can have it in mind to be able to do

[Kuma.1503]

Engineer down state is too strong. It has two ways to CC you when other classes only have one!It's an obvious outlier and needs to be brought in line.

[Simonoly.4352]

I remember when they removed downstate in WvW for a bit and it completely trivialised combat and made it super boring. Experienced players have no issue overcoming downstate and planning accordingly, and new players get a bit more of a chance rather than instantly exploding. It's a good mechanic.

[Virdo.1540]

I say We need more No-Downstate Events!

[Tayga.3192]

It's there for various reasons

1) A counter to oneshot builds, thanks to downstate you can't stealth -> approach a group (2-3 ppl) -> kill 1 -> leave2) To promote outrotating instead of kills

[senki.1046]

@Tayga.3192 said:It's there for various reasons

1) A counter to oneshot builds, thanks to downstate you can't stealth -> approach a group (2-3 ppl) -> kill 1 -> leave2) To promote outrotating instead of kills

it's okay to leave it, but I mostly want a nerf to hp and rezzing.