Please tone down the down state

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

• Remove invulnerable frames when going into DSThere is a reason this exist though. While it matters little in smallscale, it would be horrid in zergs (especially if adding other nerfs on top).

This is a fair point to a certain extent, however in zergs people don't normally revive in a zerg during any actual zerg vs zerg fight. They rally but that happens almost explicitly because your whole zerg is unloading damage onto the enemy zerg so you end up rallying your downed players, otherwise you don't see very much of "the rub" going on in an ongoing zerg vs zerg fight.

Thats also partially why the reduction in the downstate health pool wouldn't result in much change in zerg vs zerg fights either, people already get melted pretty much immediately once they get downed. This isn't to say that I support removing the iframes, I just felt that it needed to be pointed out that while it "helps" to some extent in those situations, ultimately it doesn't amount to much.

[Jeran.6850]

Why is this in the pvp forum, when the arguments are mostly wvw based? Can you pvp guys PLEASE leave wvw out? Its amusing...not long ago, pvp people liked to look at wvw like its a pve+ game mode...now they use wvw as an argument for pvp balance, because both are suddenly equally "competitive"??

Maybe whe should ask Arenanet to nerf staff weaver and scourge (some more) in pvp, because... wvw large scale. Sounds very logical.On the topic of downstate: i couldnt care less if Arenanet removes it from pvp, but since "you" brought wvw in to play - it would be a desaster for that gamemode.

I recommend to visit the wvw subforum, and have a look at the several threads about it, and the polls. Each and every time it becomes obvious, that the majority of players (that are even contributing in/to the forum) are AGAINST the removal of the downstate, and for good reasons (and no, its not the gold spend on finishers...wvw isnt THAT much pve...).

Lets give it a try. What have to change, if the downstate will be removed?

Stealth, invuln, superspeed, instant teleports, the initiative system, massive range opportunitys (like lb ranger, deadeye), aoe effectivity.... safe stomps, yes. And then, once again, stealth. Stealth in any, any, any way.

What have to be equalized?

Downstate hp and skills (so no necro pressing "1" in downstate for double effect, no rezz by pet for ranger, no ele "mist" form, no second chance for warrior....)

I am all for the removal of the rally-mechanic btw, even though my (14k hp) staff weavers kitten has been saved many, many times by it in wvw.

I could go on, but it feels like talking against walls, as a certain type of players do not stop to request the removal of the downed state, but dont think about the consequences that HAVE to follow... which, by a high chance, will destroy, or at least heavily cripple, the classes "you" have so much fun playing during the "no downstate"- events in wvw.

At least, leave wvw out of your pvp arguments - please.

And it would be also nice (and a sign of an actually working brain): do not talk about class effectivity provided by golem numbers and raid relevance. Its irrelevant for pvp, for wvw, its not relevant at all outside of PVE!!!YES, i know this time it isnt brought up... i just couldnt forget what nonsense happened so many times before in this forum, if its about "balance"for pvp and smallscale wvw, just to have a (weird) argument. Crazy.

[ZDragon.3046]

Would argue we need more instant execute elite skills before nerfing downstate directly at least that way its more fun and more options for people to consider in their builds.

That said i do slightly agree downstate in some cases is a bit insane but it really depends on each profession and the other professions around the one in downstate.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Only Ranger's downstate 3 and some resurrection skills need to be adjusted for pvp, Imo. Apart from this, it feels like "I have glass build nuke spec and downed opponent, but now I am too squishy to stomp without also downing, so if you can just bypass downstate that would be great"

[Shiyo.3578]

@Tayga.3192 said:It's there for various reasons

1) A counter to oneshot builds, thanks to downstate you can't stealth -> approach a group (2-3 ppl) -> kill 1 -> leave2) To promote outrotating instead of kills

That's what we call fixing problems the devs themselves created. If 1 shot builds didn't exist, as they shouldn't, you wouldn't need to design downed state.Downed is really awful in WvW, imo. SPvP it's 100% fine and adds depth, but I don't think it should exist in WvW and perhaps 2v2.

I honestly can't remember the last time I benefited from downed state in WvW and absolutely cannot remember the last time I was revived in WvW. I am always outnumbered so if I go down, I'm always dead.

[Lottie.5370]

@Knuckle Joe.7408 said:

@Lottie.5370 said:My biggest problem with downstate is that some classes have a MUCH stronger one than others. If you're a mesmer, thief, engi, ele or rev and you're in a downstate 1v1 with a necro, ranger, warrior or guardian, you have literally no chance.

Four of the classes can really only CC or damage, or go invisible/invulnerable for a few seconds. Ranger has CC and can res itself with its pet, necro lifesteals, and guard can heal itself too. The biggest problem is with ranger/necro though. I think they should both have a reduction to the healing they get from petres/lifesteal.

I wouldn't mind either:

• lower downed health pool (and lower ressing to match it)
• less healing from ressing
• rework downstate skills completely so they feel somewhat balanced

Ranger down is balanced, of course you're going to lose against it 1v1 downed fight, but that scenario is not that frequent to begin with. Ranger and Necro cannot displace themselves when downed, if someone has stability, stealth or blocking, they're pretty much the easiest classes to execute.

Did you know ranger can also swap pets when downed? And activate their pet F2 skills? I can get 5 cc's when I'm downed and also res myself. Balanced.

[GAB.9340]

Did downstate also get nerfed back in the big february patch, because it surely doesnt feel like. WIth the nerf to sustain and damage in general some downstates is really obnoxious, and can be quite dangerous if you have like =< 50% hp. Which I think it shouldnt be.