Can we make No Down state permanent? Or have Conditions transfer over to Down State(Most Ideal)

[Demon Puppet.6873]

I believe no Down State being a perma feature would make WvW healthier all over. For starters having Down State in a game mode that encourages big battles of players does not make sense. We should just allow hard rezzing to be a thing again even in combat. Most traits that Rez people have been hard nerfed where they are not even useful. Lastly Down State favors Power comps because Condis get cleansed when going into Down State. So the two most logical fixes to balance out both types of damage would be to either get rid of Down State as a whole in WvW or have current Condis transfer/persist when a player goes into Down State.

Anet can we just do a Vote and let fate decide?

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

At the very least, remove down invulnerability like in PvP

[koliu.1627]

No let downstate so every bot can get ressed by 5 minstrels players.

[Demon Puppet.6873]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:At the very least, remove down invulnerability like in PvP

i actually think in practice it would be most logical to just remove the Invuln and have Condis transfer over to Down State. Since Power Comps damage is persistent it does not drop or have to ramp up. Condis can be applied/cleansed to a Down State player so having them transfer over would keep the say consistency for Condi comps.

[urd.8306]

No downstate will kill wvw for most people like it did the other times this event happened. It's unbalanced and stupid for most classes. Why not make a "no stealth" event instead? Oh, because your class relies on stealth? Bad luck, hu?

[Babytater.6803]

It would be so much more balanced if the conditions transferred over to downstate. I don't think we should get rid of downstate all together but making it easier for small groups to confirm downs more quickly would be ideal for the health of the game mode.

[Demon Puppet.6873]

@Babytater.6803 said:It would be so much more balanced if the conditions transferred over to downstate. I don't think we should get rid of downstate all together but making it easier for small groups to confirm downs more quickly would be ideal for the health of the game mode.

I agree 100%

[Dawdler.8521]

@Babytater.6803 said:It would be so much more balanced if the conditions transferred over to downstate. I don't think we should get rid of downstate all together but making it easier for small groups to confirm downs more quickly would be ideal for the health of the game mode.What, you mean small groups bringing the tools to actually stomp people instead of running on large scale meta power and minstrel builds?

Thats unpossible.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

Changes to DS in WvW should be:

• Remove rally
• 1:1 reviving
• Remove invulnerable frames when going into DS
• Lower HP pool of DS, it was large enough to start with and after the big dmg nerf DS has become a DPS sponge
• Reduce revive speed, a single player can revive a down faster than a stomp can finish

Transfer of condi onto someone going into DS would be fine as well, doesn't make any sense for it to be a full clear when going into DS.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

if you remove downstate, you MUST also nerf thief damage by 90% and buff ele health by 50%

[MedievalThings.5417]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:Changes to DS in WvW should be:

• Remove rally
• 1:1 reviving
• Remove invulnerable frames when going into DS
• Lower HP pool of DS, it was large enough to start with and after the big dmg nerf DS has become a DPS sponge
• Reduce revive speed, a single player can revive a down faster than a stomp can finish

Transfer of condi onto someone going into DS would be fine as well, doesn't make any sense for it to be a full clear when going into DS.

These suggestions are about the only thing that make sense beyond just removing it.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

i am for the removal of auto attack on downed state and the removal of the auto cleanse upon entering downed state.

health shouldn't be too low as to promote finisher moves.

i would love a permanent no downed state but that will never happen.

[Fueki.4753]

I believe removing safe stomps would make WvW and PvP healthier than nerfing down states.You have your beliefs, I have mine.

But that doesn't mean either one is right.

[God.2708]

@"Fueki.4753" said:I believe removing safe stomps would make WvW and PvP healthier than nerfing down states.You have your beliefs, I have mine.

But that doesn't mean either one is right.

I find it to be lazy to assert a belief in something and then shrug your shoulders and say 'Well opinions are going to opinion". It is perfectly reasonable to set some sort of standards or expectations for what one wants from the game and its sub-mode WvW, and then hold decisions up to the light and determine how they fare against those standards compared to other things. People on this forum generally do a bad job explaining what sort of standard or paradigm they are looking from, but that doesn't mean everyone has to.

---

This is a topic that comes up quite frequently, and I feel very comfortable saying that making no-downstate a permanent fixture of the mode would drastically harm WvW. It is somewhat appreciable as an event (prefer it as a weekend, not week), and is a simple but good way to put things in the limelight that normally don't get to be center stage. But, in general no-downstate actively harms newer players and fostering community, which is the exact opposite of what you want if you're trying to sustain the game long term.

I'm frankly a little wary of changing how conditions work on downstate as, whilst it does reset, my cursory experiments seem to say that cleansing doesn't prioritize downstates (and of course they can't cleanse themselves). So it would make condition bombs unrecoverable from as condition damage generally overkills because it is balanced to get cleansed. It is not so different from power when you consider overkill from power damage doesn't carry over either. The invuln frames waste multiple seconds of AoE bombs from power damage all the time so they have to refresh their rotation. Why would that not apply to condition damage? Can you imagine a burn guard throwing a fat stack on you, downing you, and then ticking you while it is incredibly hard to remove? That doesn't sound particularly healthy.

[Apokriphos.7042]

I am for anything that reduces the power of megazergs in the WvW meta. Downstate has a complicated history in WvW. With some small modifications (Basically just limit it to max 1 rezzer at a time) I think it would be better balanced and less helpful to the side with superior numbers.

However, eliminating downstate entirely will just shift meta to power or condi DE & root LB druid for roaming. Free kills from stealth without recompense or any chance to recover from 1200-1500 range?

Sounds prefectly fine - said everyone who wanted to kill this game mode.

I think a better solution here to WvW woes would be to address the problem of stacking - which vastly benefits the side with greater numbers. The Mistlock Instability Social Awkwardness should be applied to all competitive game modes, and PvE for that matter too.

[Lahmia.2193]

@"diomache.9246" said:No downstate will kill wvw for most people like it did the other times this event happened. It's unbalanced and stupid for most classes. Why not make a "no stealth" event instead? Oh, because your class relies on stealth? Bad luck, hu?

Just fyi, he mains a necro. And as someone that now plays Scrapper for the most part, I wouldn't really care that my F5 less useful. It would now be freed up for pure superspeed, which is fine by me.

[Kassablanca.5821]

no downstate=no bags since u cant tag dead ppl. Anets need to come up with share tagging.

[urd.8306]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"diomache.9246" said:No downstate will kill wvw for most people like it did the other times this event happened. It's unbalanced and stupid for most classes. Why not make a "no stealth" event instead? Oh, because your class relies on stealth? Bad luck, hu?

Just fyi, he mains a necro. And as someone that now plays Scrapper for the most part, I wouldn't really care that my F5 less useful. It would now be freed up for pure superspeed, which is fine by me.

Doesn't change the issue at all. Just because a small majority here thinks removing downstate would be good for the game it really isn't. If you remove downstate, goodbye every power build, goodbye invulnerabilites, stealth, and so on. Why? Because these skills are even more unbalanced when people die at once. I'm maining Ele, I already can get oneshot. If you remove downstate, you have to cut damage from Rangers, Thieves, Revs, Warriors and basically everyone else by at least 90% to make fights not a frag fest.Why do you think WvW participation drops massively when this event hits? Because it's so fun for most? No, it caters a small fanbase that likes to play builds that forgive errors, because they can hide, run or invuln their way out of (almost) everything.

[Jilora.9524]

Garbage event. I will steamroll players and only see wvw exp pop up and not even feel them die. Less bags too because now you can't clean up downs for credit. Then you will see small groups 90 percent support builds farming pugs living forever calling out targets in discord 1 by 1. The one shot nonsense or now you dead under an ac walk back plz. I don't really notice a huge diff except some will see things like that

[Justine.6351]

@"diomache.9246" said:No downstate will kill wvw for most people like it did the other times this event happened. It's unbalanced and stupid for most classes. Why not make a "no stealth" event instead? Oh, because your class relies on stealth? Bad luck, hu?

Rofl that is about as close as you can come to admitting downed state carries without actually saying it...

[SWI.4127]

I like the res game and strategy around it. I do also like no-downstate events every once in awhile to switch it up though. I don't think it should be permanent. Not adding to the conversation much, I know. Just want to put my opinion out there so Anet doesn't see only one side of this.

[Justine.6351]

@"SWI.4127" said:I like the res game and strategy around it. I do also like no-downstate events every once in awhile to switch it up though. I don't think it should be permanent. Not adding to the conversation much, I know. Just want to put my opinion out there so Anet doesn't see only one side of this.

Nah we get ya. Simply removing downed state is a bad idea at this point. People acting like it will cure wvw can't think very far ahead about how people would change behavior to keep themselves alive. The "safe play" would kill small-scale even harder but yay we can now gank zerglings ! Amazing big fun...

[kash.9213]

Down State is good for the game but there doesn't need to be Rally or downed skills and Pull skills should work on friendly downs.

[Teratus.2859]

I don't mind the occasional no downstate events but as a permanent feature I have to go with no!

Few days ago I came across a Revenant and a Druid who managed to survive a battle against almost 10 players due to how absurdly tanky they were as a combo.They managed to down at least 3 players over the several minutes it took to finally kill them, if there was no downstate ever then WvW would literally become a Tank vs Tank scenario because of how effective certain tanky support combos can be.

Imagine 5-10 organized tanky necros all with transfusion, AoE healing each other with every Shroud/Shade 4 skill they use while also hording Barriers thanks to Scourge and Bloodbank.

Yeah im gonna bet that'll annoy a lot of people, more so with tanky revs and druids also backing them up with heals and CC's.

[Sugar Min.5834]

This again lol.

Permanently remove downed state? Sure. Just don't forget to refund us the gems on those finishers we bought with real money. But really, why do I care? I have totally stopped playing WvW since a month ago. Well done NERF Team and please continue to drive more players away from WvW and left ony the gankers in this mode happily ganking each other and then you can rename it Gankers vs Gankers. Thumbs up !

edit: please make more of such topics and eventually ANet will do it. The NERF Team always response to nerf calls. Always.