Need serious help against reapers

[Affinity.7253]

So a friend and I recently started playing again, and we were having a blast in PvP. We are both switching up our kit routinely during unranked, and started going on crazy winning streaks. All in all we probably went 30ish wins to maybe 6-8ish or so losses. This may be because I picked up auramancer (I am an elementalist) while my friend settled in on a core condi tank mesmer.

This probably took us a good deal of the way there admittedly. However, every game there would be a minimum of 1-2 reapers, and usually a holo as well. These guys were our bane. Holo tended to be crazy bursty, but didn't have nearly the same CC or sustained damage output as reapers. We could do nothing against those guys.

I seemed to start noticing the same thing happening, I would try CCing them and it would never work. Always immune. Then I would overload with stability trait and get knocked out of it almost every time. Then of course, they have permachill, which may as well prevent you from ever overloading again as it would lengthen the time it would take to 8 seconds or so, and the reaper would kill me in 3-5 seconds if I didn't have any rolls or defenses left.

So for real: How do we beat reapers? I have heard before "just CC them" but to both of our observations, that just doesn't work. Even if one goes through, you have stopped a freight train barreling at you for 2 seconds, at which point it just resumes speed. A freight train with >30k hp.

This has gotten way worse as the past couple days we logged in, we are finding 2-4 reapers in every game now. We went like 4 games in a row with the enemy team having 2+ reapers. And often our team has a reaper or two as well.

Oh and I'm not even going to mention lich form. We all know about that.

So does anyone have any helpful advice? (advice beyond gitgud scrub, reaper is top skill class)Based solely on their player numbers in spvp, they are obviously way overpowered, at least in the lower to mid unranked brackets. But just "wait for the nerf" doesn't seem like a good solution.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

The hardest counter you can possibly run vs. any Necro build, is this:

Soulbeast Gank Mode Extreme

Longbow Energy/SeparationGreatsword Energy/IntelligenceBerserker/Eagle

Wild - top - mid - midBeast - bot - mid - botSoul - mid - top - bot

6 - Troll7 - Zephyr8 - Sic Em9 - Light Ref0 - One Wolf Pack

Smokescale/Any Other

^ With this build you can kill any Necromancer/Reaper/Scourge build in under 10s regardless of their skill level if you can catch them with the right positioning. And even if you mess up your positioning, this build can easily hard counter the Necro 1v1 in any circumstances so long as you are not +d. Try it out, use it, enjoy.

Thieves also counter Necros and maybe very VERY good Scrappers, but outside of Rangers & Thieves & maybe Scrapper, Necros are just OP right now and kill the shit out of everything that tries to bruise against it.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Affinity.7253" said:So a friend and I recently started playing again, and we were having a blast in PvP. We are both switching up our kit routinely during unranked, and started going on crazy winning streaks. All in all we probably went 30ish wins to maybe 6-8ish or so losses. This may be because I picked up auramancer (I am an elementalist) while my friend settled in on a core condi tank mesmer.

This probably took us a good deal of the way there admittedly. However, every game there would be a minimum of 1-2 reapers, and usually a holo as well. These guys were our bane. Holo tended to be crazy bursty, but didn't have nearly the same CC or sustained damage output as reapers. We could do nothing against those guys.

I seemed to start noticing the same thing happening, I would try CCing them and it would never work. Always immune. Then I would overload with stability trait and get knocked out of it almost every time. Then of course, they have permachill, which may as well prevent you from ever overloading again as it would lengthen the time it would take to 8 seconds or so, and the reaper would kill me in 3-5 seconds if I didn't have any rolls or defenses left.

So for real: How do we beat reapers? I have heard before "just CC them" but to both of our observations, that just doesn't work. Even if one goes through, you have stopped a freight train barreling at you for 2 seconds, at which point it just resumes speed. A freight train with >30k hp.

This has gotten way worse as the past couple days we logged in, we are finding 2-4 reapers in every game now. We went like 4 games in a row with the enemy team having 2+ reapers. And often our team has a reaper or two as well.

Oh and I'm not even going to mention lich form. We all know about that.

So does anyone have any helpful advice? (advice beyond gitgud scrub, reaper is top skill class)Based solely on their player numbers in spvp, they are obviously way overpowered, at least in the lower to mid unranked brackets. But just "wait for the nerf" doesn't seem like a good solution.

While there is always room for improvement...Necro right now is brokenly OP , there is very little you can do on ele vs necro atm, unless you massively outplay them you will lose because ele "specialize" in melee combat.

As a "rule of Thumb" if on average out of 10 players, 4-5 play the same class....there is a 90% chance that class is broken/OP so don't feel too bad about your defeats

[Shiyo.3578]

Reaper is meant to be a glass cannon team fighter like berserker but right now it's far too tanky due to life force gain rate from any defensive and offensive action they do on top of 50% DR in shroud + 20% on shroud 3 and also too easy to disengage on. So what you end up with is a bruiser that's a glass cannon that can disengage at will and outmuscle other bruisers 1v1/2v2 with no real clear cut counter.

I honestly can't figure out a counter to this build. Focusing it doesn't work, kiting it doesn't work, and you can't beat it at range due to staff +axe and focus. It has no weakness outside of open field pvp.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The only problem with Reaper right now is honestly just Lich.

If you are getting regularly memed by anything else it's kind of an L2P issue.

[DonNee.5128]

https://www.twitch.tv/clip/ObeseHilariousUdonMrDestructoid

here look at this clip how to ez reapers

as ele and core mes maybe little difficult, but u can always swap to double rev and press some keys

[Spellhunter.9675]

The best counter to any necro is another necro. Also when he pops lich you as an support ele can use projectile block from focus air + earth aura proj reflect. The last one particulary ruins his entire lich form.

[Vancho.8750]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The hardest counter you can possibly run vs. any Necro build, is this:

Soulbeast Gank Mode Extreme

Longbow Energy/SeparationGreatsword Energy/IntelligenceBerserker/Eagle

Wild - top - mid - midBeast - bot - mid - botSoul - mid - top - bot

6 - Troll7 - Zephyr8 - Sic Em9 - Light Ref0 - One Wolf Pack

Smokescale/Any Other

^ With this build you can kill any Necromancer/Reaper/Scourge build in under 10s regardless of their skill level if you can catch them with the right positioning. And even if you mess up your positioning, this build can easily hard counter the Necro 1v1 in any circumstances so long as you are not +d. Try it out, use it, enjoy.

Thieves also counter Necros and maybe very VERY good Scrappers, but outside of Rangers & Thieves & maybe Scrapper, Necros are just OP right now and kill the kitten out of everything that tries to bruise against it.You missed guardian( but this is more who will fuck up first kind of deal), tempest which shuts down anything reaper can do, Holo i don't think that needs more explanation, any warrior in 1v1 but they can't touch teamfights so they don't have much interaction with reapers, power herald and when it is doubled i don't think anything can survive the burst, GS mesmer is really effective against reaper but i don't see anyone playing it and most importantly all necro builds soft counter each other.I'm kinda working on a Berserker build that is at least viable and not a meme like the signet one where you one shot people, but if someone farts in your general direction you die. And now on my quest to finding the one working power build for berserker i found that the easiest kill is Reaper, everything else has multiple tricky tricks to deny damage.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Reaper is meant to be a glass cannon team fighter like berserker but right now it's far too tanky due to life force gain rate from any defensive and offensive action they do on top of 50% DR in shroud + 20% on shroud 3 and also too easy to disengage on. So what you end up with is a bruiser that's a glass cannon that can disengage at will and outmuscle other bruisers 1v1/2v2 with no real clear cut counter.

I honestly can't figure out a counter to this build. Focusing it doesn't work, kiting it doesn't work, and you can't beat it at range due to staff +axe and focus. It has no weakness outside of open field pvp.

I thought Reaper was supposed to be the lumbering meat cleaver that you could kite. They were literally designed this way.

"This devastating melee brawler is at home in battle when surrounded by as many enemies as possible, cleaving through hapless foes for life-force sustainment......We pulled elements from slow but seemingly unstoppable horror monsters like Pyramid Head and Jason Voorhees to try to craft the feeling of a relentless pursuer who becomes extremely deadly once they close the distance to their prey."

The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility. And the fact that the smaller arenas are basically only as wide as its scythe and you can't kite it. Add in some teleports for a disengage and Lich Form and it can be extremely oppressive.

But if you bring something that is more mobile and you get the Asura Arena, Reaper's a free kill.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

So everything has been there the whole time and the only real increase has been rune of speed change?

[AleCenta.2190]

The problem of necromancer is only one, people can’t play vs him at low tiers cause they aren’t good enough.At low tier reaper, core and scourge are almost gods. They are easy to learn and pretty good when not punished. But at higher level it’s another story. You can counter them so hard with common meta builds, they are useless in 1v1 and they got zero mobility compared to thief or renegade. The problem is that people lose time complaining on forums instead of learning how to play against them. An elementalist complaining about reapers cause he can’t stun them sorry but it’s bullshit. Necromancer have zero stability when out of shroud and even in shroud it’s only something like 3 sec. Lich is hard countered by many spells, cc stuns blind corrupt blocks.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

So everything has been there the whole time and the only real increase has been rune of speed change?

Speed of Shadows also got a buff a while back, combo that with Speed runes and you get 12s of +66% movement speed on entering Shroud. Or if you are taking a staff and Soul Marks, you will likely just use the Lynx runes for +25%.

[DonNee.5128]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

So everything has been there the whole time and the only real increase has been rune of speed change?

what is the whole time?spectral walk wasn't used before it was buffed, and reaper still wasnt meta thenrune of speed isn't always used anyway, it's mostly double port that reaper didnt use before

[Sigmoid.7082]

@DonNee.5128 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

So everything has been there the whole time and the only real increase has been rune of speed change?

what is the whole time?

As in the total available mobility hasn't really changed for ~2 years.

Really looking to properly understand these complaints. I'm just confused.

[Tayga.3192]

The problem with reaper (necro in general) is its teammate. If it's a reaper + tempest duo, the tempest can peel + cc + immob so you can't kite.

Otherwise reaper by itself is not the strongest thing ever, it just benefits a lot more from having a teammate.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@DonNee.5128 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

So everything has been there the whole time and the only real increase has been rune of speed change?

what is the whole time?

As in the total available mobility hasn't really changed for ~2 years.

Are you really just here to nitpick the semantics of my use of "ever-increasing"?

Reaper wasn't meta. Now it is. At least in lower tiers. Additional mobility (through buffs and theorycrafting) and the small arenas are why. Happy?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@AleCenta.2190 said:The problem of necromancer is only one, people can’t play vs him at low tiers cause they aren’t good enough.At low tier reaper, core and scourge are almost gods. They are easy to learn and pretty good when not punished. But at higher level it’s another story. You can counter them so hard with common meta builds, they are useless in 1v1 and they got zero mobility compared to thief or renegade. The problem is that people lose time complaining on forums instead of learning how to play against them. An elementalist complaining about reapers cause he can’t stun them sorry but it’s kitten. Necromancer have zero stability when out of shroud and even in shroud it’s only something like 3 sec. Lich is hard countered by many spells, cc stuns blind corrupt blocks.

? in high ranks people play reaper, and any counterplay they could have is removed by their butt buddy tempest.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@DonNee.5128 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:The problem with Reaper comes from its seemingly ever-increasing mobility.

What have been the increases in mobility?

Just the use of core skills and traits that had not been a thing previously along with PvP runes that provide +25% movement speed.

So everything has been there the whole time and the only real increase has been rune of speed change?

what is the whole time?

As in the total available mobility hasn't really changed for ~2 years.

Are you really just here to nitpick the semantics of my use of

"ever-increasing"

?

Reaper wasn't meta. Now it is. At least in lower tiers. Additional mobility (through buffs and theorycrafting) and the small arenas are why. Happy?

Yes, because I got a proper and more detailed explanation of what you were trying to say and your perception of whats happening and why.

[truce.7539]

for silver and gold reaper is a problem. best counter for them is "git gud"

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

As an ele you should be able to kite reaper when they enter shroud with earth 3, fire 3 (assuming you are running d/f), and lightning flash if you use it. You should also save some cleanses to anticipate being chilled when they use shroud. Reapers have 1 skill in shroud that gives stab and outside shroud they have none, just watch their boons and use cc around that. Vs lich you can again kite and los, or use earth 4 or air 4 to avoid autos. As for overloading, you need to make sure you arent going to get instantly corrupted when you use them. Lots of classes have boon strips or corrupts, and using a long channeled skill with stab is just inviting your enemy to corrupt and interrupt you.

[KrHome.1920]

• Kiting a reaper for 5 seconds will decimate his life force by 25%. So what do you think what you should do when he enters shroud?
• You can avoid grasping darkness just via moving a circle around the reaper. It won't connect to you then.
• You can avoid spectral grasp just via moving sideways and when he casts it stop moving. It will overshot then and not hit you.
• Play weaver against reaper as then you have plenty of evasion and burst to counter him. Even staff weaver can kill reaper, but in terms of skill you are not at this point yet.
• Forget about tempest bunker builds. PvP lacks the amulets to make bunkers viable, so don't even try. Play something with mobility and burst.
• Watch metabattle.com for reference what is viable. Most of the current metabuilds run simply marauder and berserker for a reason.

Disengaging when a reaper enters shroud and using the mechanics I mentioned to avoid the two pulls (darkness and grasp) are the things that separate the "mimimi reaper is broken" noob from the one who kills it with ease.

If the reaper plays with support and you as a duo of whatever, you should just aim for the moment he leaves shroud to nuke him. If you play proper builds then no support will be able to save him from a 2v1 hardocus for 10 seconds. If he can trick you with walk and wurm, then you should just get gud. Besides that, both skills have high cooldowns so that he might manage a second shroud uptime you have to kite, but then it should be a walk in the park as he has burned all his utilities.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@AleCenta.2190 said:The problem of necromancer is only one, people can’t play vs him at low tiers cause they aren’t good enough.At low tier reaper, core and scourge are almost gods. They are easy to learn and pretty good when not punished. But at higher level it’s another story. You can counter them so hard with common meta builds, they are useless in 1v1 and they got zero mobility compared to thief or renegade. The problem is that people lose time complaining on forums instead of learning how to play against them. An elementalist complaining about reapers cause he can’t stun them sorry but it’s kitten. Necromancer have zero stability when out of shroud and even in shroud it’s only something like 3 sec. Lich is hard countered by many spells, cc stuns blind corrupt blocks.

As a sword weaver I would place reaper near the top of my list of bad matchups 1v1. They hit pretty hard at any range, where I am forced to fight them at melee. They can kite with wurm and walk and regain a ton of lifeforce in the process. Worse they spam chill like mad, which is a real beast of a condition vs. elementalists and they have plenty of CC on top of that. I really feel like this is an uphill battle for me. Am I wrong?

Just to be clear. I am not complaining about reaper or proposing nerfs. Simply observing that, as an elementalist, this is really not an easy fight for me at all.

[Mitsuruji.1796]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The hardest counter you can possibly run vs. any Necro build, is this:

Soulbeast Gank Mode Extreme

Longbow Energy/SeparationGreatsword Energy/IntelligenceBerserker/Eagle

Wild - top - mid - midBeast - bot - mid - botSoul - mid - top - bot

6 - Troll7 - Zephyr8 - Sic Em9 - Light Ref0 - One Wolf Pack

Smokescale/Any Other

^ With this build you can kill any Necromancer/Reaper/Scourge build in under 10s regardless of their skill level if you can catch them with the right positioning. And even if you mess up your positioning, this build can easily hard counter the Necro 1v1 in any circumstances so long as you are not +d. Try it out, use it, enjoy.

Thieves also counter Necros and maybe very VERY good Scrappers, but outside of Rangers & Thieves & maybe Scrapper, Necros are just OP right now and kill the kitten out of everything that tries to bruise against it.

As a Necro main and mediocre player. I confirm this.