No more pocket heals

[Alec B.8905]

I just want to see a change to pocket healers in WvW, I just dislike how bad it looks when 1 pocket healer can guard a 5 man party from a 20 man pug group. I just want to see reduced values so this doesn't happen.(keep it civil)

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

[Alec B.8905]

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

that's just a bad comment, when have you not seen it?!

[Phyxrgon.7305]

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

I want to know that too...

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Yeah I do too

[Alec B.8905]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Yeah I do too

alright so in the instance of a 20 man COMP group a 5 man group will likely die, which is what you guys are thinking of, but what about a 20 man pug group of uncoordinated people not in comms. Then the problem arises of 20 total people trying to dps a 5 man with a pocket healer while everyone is running different builds. This is a perfect example of general wvw play. You can see this happening all the time when a small group slaughters a pug group.

It is dumb to say MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE RUNNING COMP because that is not relevant to the situation.

Maybe due to the fact that in group play heal blasts are coordinated which means that they are relying on multiple people heal blasting at once which is why a singular person shouldn't have that much of a healing presence in a small group. Currently pocket Healers posses so much healing when it should be toned down in a small group and kept the same in a larger group setting.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Alec B.8905 said:

@"Sir Alymer.3406" said:I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

that's just a bad comment, when have you not seen it?!No it really isnt a bad comment at all.Any 20 person group struggling against 5 has bigger problems than 1 "pocket healer".

[Justine.6351]

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

I would return to WvW TODAY if someone was willing to teach me this secret.

! Super bad opponents does NOT count as a secret!

[ArchonWing.9480]

It should look bad though.

[ASP.8093]

Sometimes, the game does come down to Build Wars. Or Discord Wars. Or Lag Wars.

The scenario you are describing is, ime, not one of those times.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

I would return to WvW TODAY if someone was willing to teach me this secret.

! Super bad opponents does NOT count as a secret!Nice save! :3

[Noah Salazar.5430]

You can see this happening all the time when a small group slaughters a pug group.

Can confirm it, as 5 ppl randoms gathered on gandara we deleted 20-30 squad

a) becose thay focused on killing lordb) becose we charged on smaller groups that was not close to raidc) kill 1by1 person that came to us

this how with 2ranger, guardian heal, thief, and me as flamethrower scrapper, defeted 24-30 ppl while losing only 1 person

dif was that we are 5 pvp/roam players, while that 25-30 ppl was bandwagon pve train

other situation was when one person disabled 3-4 catas and couter-shoot place wher enemy catas was stoping whole bandwagon pve train

Maybe due to the fact that in group play heal blasts are coordinated which means that they are relying on multiple people heal blasting at once which is why a singular person shouldn't have that much of a healing presence in a small group.

it's not healer, good players are tanky by themself as know when to dodge/block/evade or condi cleanse, also having uniqe builds that give advantage to thay play style

Same as gaming headphones that cost 300 euro, so thay can hear what skill you use even before you cast it or press button

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Alec B.8905 said:but what about a 20 man pug group of uncoordinated people not in comms.

Er...seems like an easy fix there: Get coordinated and onto comms?

@Alec B.8905 said:It is dumb to say MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE RUNNING COMP because that is not relevant to the situation.

How is that NOT relevant? Find me an NHL hockey team where the Goalie plays wing and the Center guards the net?

@Alec B.8905 said:Maybe due to the fact that in group play heal blasts are coordinated

What you are describing is skilled game play, and this is something you want to criticize?

I mean, I shouldn't be shocked at what the usual goldfish post on these forums nowadays, but you are literally complaining that an organized group of skilled players running competitive builds are defeating a larger group of unorganized lower skilled players running random builds.

That. Is. Exactly. How. It. Should. Be.

Take those twenty players now.

• teach them how to play their class, and have them play the correct builds / gear
• have them install Discord and join the channel
• have someone lead the team (doesn't even need a tag) for some direction and strategy

Do that, and your 20 person group will defeat the 10 person group every single time.

TLDR: Get better and adapt to the game - stop asking the game to be made easier for you.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Alec B.8905 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

that's just a bad comment, when have you not seen it?!

He has a point dude. A single fb shouldn't last long vs 3 people but ofc the fb has 4 other allies cleaving/aoe so its gonna be tough to take out a fb in heavy dmg. But seriously? 20 people? Pull the other 1

[Tiawal.2351]

A well played party of 5, should be able not just to survive, but also kill an unlimited number of players. It takes a single DPS to down 5 to 15 each round (about ~1 minutes, depends which DPS build) and it takes 2 DPS to not just down, but also finish the same amount. The remaining 3 players of this 5 man party can be sustain & buff, no need of more than 2 players to kill 50+. That's how bad most so called "damage" dealers are most of the time; that not even 10+ of them can kill a single player, when 1 should be enough.

These of course are true ONLY because the difference of skill level & quality of play, can be that high. Randomly pressing buttons on useless builds (created based on imaginary understanding of those mostly misleading skill & trait descriptions, and not based on facts, numbers and testing) won't do much. Proper movement, timing and focusing are essential. Playing together for a long time, knowing how the player next to you plays, allows a level of synergy that no screaming in discord can match: with no delays at all.

If both sides are playing at same level, or close to each other: then player numbers start to matter. Otherwise will end in a draw; in a long, extremely fun fight, where everyone is a winner, because this fun is the highest reward.

tl;dr - don't just expect to be "good" without effort: research about each detail and base every move on tested facts, pursue perfection and excellence in every moment, and don't give up improving until every reaction becomes as natural as breathing -- not just in this game, but everything in your life

[urd.8306]

The main issue here is Firebrand. It's way to good at the spot it fills. That's why you stack your zerg with them. I don't believe in the 5v20 theory, but killing a FB while you have to deal with dps supporting him with either damage or cc is an impossible task.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

@Alec B.8905 said:

@Sir Alymer.3406 said:I wanna know how 20 people can't out DPS one person's sustain?

that's just a bad comment, when have you not seen it?!

When I'm in the group of 20 people vs. 5, I tend to win in WvW. I count wins as making them scatter or retreat for a while. You do not need to get a confirmed kill or wipe the enemy team to win a fight in WvW.

When I'm in the group of 5, I have to overclock my support and use them intelligently if I want everyone to survive. It doesn't take an engineering degree to single out low targets with no stab and murder them.

[shiri.4257]

@Alec B.8905 said:I just want to see a change to pocket healers in WvW, I just dislike how bad it looks when 1 pocket healer can guard a 5 man party from a 20 man pug group. I just want to see reduced values so this doesn't happen.(keep it civil)

perhaps take your hand out of your pocket!

[LetoII.3782]

19 people attacking the ground in front of their feet and one OP wondering how they're doing less damage than him.

Get shadowplay, record a fight. People doing absolutely nothing is abysmally common in this game.

Its so common that Anet made scourge so people could win by standing next to an opponent.

[YTKafka.4681]

So just as a question were these guys by chance all in the same guild? Because I mean what are you even expecting at that point if they are?

[Talindra.4958]

Ah... Well 5 vs 20 and the team of 5 men win? Well I wouldn't say it's credit to only the healer. It's well played :) gg to entire team.

Why do you call for a nerf when you see 5 men win against 20 men? Have you considered: 1) organised > unorganized group. 2) good coordination > no/poor coordination.

When a 20 men (organised or unorganised) lost to a 5 men organised team .. first thing first, they need to stop the repeat feed. Don't go back to feed them. If you can't beat them, then you need to fix your problem first not calling for a nerf to that 5 men lol. The game should not be greater number win but should be greater coordination and skill win.Good player will know when to retreat and when to engage. And they have better knowledge of how each profession works eg skill CD and etc. .. the healer is not the god there.

We don't see often that a group of 5 men defeat large unorganized group. But when this occur too frequently anet will bring out the nerf gun :p
Good coordinated group should be rewarded for their effort.

[archmagus.7249]

You must not be familiar with how healing (and condition removal) work. Healing is spread through a squad to your closest allies, prioritizing allies with the lowest health. Water fields heal allies in a radius when blasted in a similar way (whirl finishers heal your closest ally when nobody is directly hit). If there was a water field and chained blast finishers, he could have easily kept up a 5 man squad.

[Talindra.4958]

@ archmagus -- Same as that 20. Are they all glass canon prof and they hit the group with retaliation on?? ?

[Talindra.4958]

@shiri.4257 said:

@Alec B.8905 said:I just want to see a change to pocket healers in WvW, I just dislike how bad it looks when 1 pocket healer can guard a 5 man party from a 20 man pug group. I just want to see reduced values so this doesn't happen.(keep it civil)

perhaps take your hand out of your pocket!

Lol ya take hand out of pocket and clap clap

[Doug.4930]

I think OP shot themselves in the foot by using an example that's greatly exaggerated.

But that doesn't detract from the fact that minstrel support pocket healers do provide way too much to any squad that they are apart off. Roaming/small scale/large scale. Too many heals, too many cleanses and too many boons.

No other build can so drastically affect the outcome of a fight than a pocket minstrel support build that's played with even a semblance of mediocrity.