Boss Blitz - maximum player map counts

[Hesione.9412]

Please remove the Queen's Gauntlet into another instance. It's negatively affecting comm ability to get full squads in for Boss Blitz. I had only 21 out of 29 players in my map, with the other 8 reporting a full map. No point in LFGing.

Doing bosses with only 21 active players seems unintended.

[Willow.7210]

I always wished you could just instance it like raids, make a squad open an instance up, would go so much smoother.

[Healix.5819]

@Hesione.9412 said:Doing bosses with only 21 active players seems unintended.

18 total / 3 per boss would be the intended minimum

[Hesione.9412]

@Healix.5819 said:

@Hesione.9412 said:Doing bosses with only 21 active players seems unintended.

18 total / 3 per boss would be the intended minimum

Do you mean that 3 per boss would be okay, or that Anet has decided that 3 per boss is an appropriate minimum?

[Ayrilana.1396]

Bosses have all been killed with three people before so it is possible. Whether it'll happen with those players that sit there with their finger on the #1 skill or those that don't understand that standing in orange AoEs is bad is different story.

[Hesione.9412]

The majority of these squads aren't filled with people who raid. Arguing that three people can down a boss is irrelevant unless we're talking about a map of raid-level players.It's not a matter of what is possible. It is a matter of what is probable. I'm organising squads for gold runs. That isn't going to happen on a map with 18 random players.It's bad enough trying to get them to spread out, even when they have self-selected their own subsquad, and the sub squad numbers are attached to boss names plus markers in the squad information. And instructions given in map chat. And that's with 40-45 players.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I don't think the map limit is 28 or 30 players. I was in a squad that had 7 groups of 5 to 8 players each (no idea why there were 7 groups). Plus however many players were doing the Gauntlet.

[Hesione.9412]

At that point I had 29 in squad, and was not in LFG because I couldn't get anyone into the same IP. I shifted maps twice (joining an out-of-IP squad member, hoping that their map was empty). On the second attempt, when I managed to get the highest number of squad members in, it was 21 out of 29 and the others saying that the map was full. :( It finally managed to empty, I went into LFG, and managed to get about 42 players into the same map. There were some players who weren't in squad, so I estimate at least 50 doing the blitz.I'm doing organised gold runs. It is incredibly annoying to get less than 25 people into the same map without problems, let alone trying to get in 40+.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Bosses have all been killed with three people before so it is possible. Whether it'll happen with those players that sit there with their finger on the #1 skill or those that don't understand that standing in orange AoEs is bad is different story.

AoE heals, condi cleans and soft and hard CC take care about these bosses. Problem most player don't seem to understand that they need have those type skills on their bar or use sigils (condi cleans on weapon swap) that reduce the major damage they will take from conditions. Defiance bar need to be downed from soft and hard CC which also seem to lack when some people just use AA w/o thinking on reducing the second bar (teal) for direct damage and a short stun on boss. On Scrapper it is possible to stand in red for some short duration without getting killed, so I wouldn't use that as an argument that player stand in red. More important is it to move around (to not continue taking damage from ground AoE).

It also depends on how high HP some have. Too low and it is very fast to get killed from burn damage or from confusion.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Hesione.9412 said:The majority of these squads aren't filled with people who raid. Arguing that three people can down a boss is irrelevant unless we're talking about a map of raid-level players.

They don't have to be raid quality players. There is a wide range between those that just sit there and eat damage while auto attacking and raid players.

It's not a matter of what is possible. It is a matter of what is probable. I'm organising squads for gold runs. That isn't going to happen on a map with 18 random players.

And yet I have not come cross a map instance that has a ton of players doing the gauntlet to the point that there's only 18 players down below. The players being random our not have really no bearing on their skill level.

@ShadowCatz.8437 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Bosses have all been killed with three people before so it is possible. Whether it'll happen with those players that sit there with their finger on the #1 skill or those that don't understand that standing in orange AoEs is bad is different story.

AoE heals, condi cleans and soft and hard CC take care about these bosses. Problem most player don't seem to understand that they need have those type skills on their bar or use sigils (condi cleans on weapon swap) that reduce the major damage they will take from conditions. Defiance bar need to be downed from soft and hard CC which also seem to lack when some people just use AA w/o thinking on reducing the second bar (teal) for direct damage and a short stun on boss. On Scrapper it is possible to stand in red for some short duration without getting killed, so I wouldn't use that as an argument that player stand in red. More important is it to move around (to not continue taking damage from ground AoE).

It also depends on how high HP some have. Too low and it is very fast to get killed from burn damage or from confusion.

And that's where paying attention instead of being an auto attack bot is important.

[Hesione.9412]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Hesione.9412" said:The majority of these squads aren't filled with people who raid. Arguing that three people can down a boss is irrelevant unless we're talking about a map of raid-level players.

They don't have to be raid quality players. There is a wide range between those that just sit there and eat damage while auto attacking and raid players.

Coming back to the point, which is where you said that three players can down a boss :They don't spread out across the map, even when asked/told to at the start. This frequently means there are only three people at one boss. And those three people are not having a good time, and they are calling out for help in map chat. Then, out of the players who are actually reading map/squad chat, too many players go to support them, leaving a different boss with around three people attacking it. And so forth.

I have not been in one Blitz where three players are happily taking on one boss. I have also not been in one Blitz where the three players on one boss are "sitting there and eating damage while autoattacking".

I can't work out how to do another quote, so I've emphasized your comment below:"And yet I have not come cross a map instance that has a ton of players doing the gauntlet to the point that there's only 18 players down below. The players being random our not have really no bearing on their skill level."

Oh come on. If I randomly sample 18 players from the active PvE player base in the game, do you really think I only need those players to get gold/silver in the Blitz? (Bronze reward is irrelevant here because it's not timed.) By your argument - that 18 players is a sufficient number to get gold - then a map of 40-50 players is guaranteed to get gold, because that's more than twice your base number of 18.

Spoiler: full maps aren't guaranteed gold. Even though, by randomness, they should contain a greater number of better players.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Hesione.9412 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Hesione.9412 said:The majority of these squads aren't filled with people who raid. Arguing that three people can down a boss is irrelevant unless we're talking about a map of raid-level players.

They don't have to be raid quality players. There is a wide range between those that just sit there and eat damage while auto attacking and raid players.

Coming back to the point, which is where you said that three players can down a boss :They don't spread out across the map, even when asked/told to at the start. This frequently means there are only three people at one boss. And those three people are not having a good time, and they are calling out for help in map chat. Then, out of the players who are actually reading map/squad chat, too many players go to support them, leaving a different boss with around three people attacking it. And so forth.

You'd run into this issue regardless of how many players you had doing it. Even organized squads occasionally still have this issue. The point that I was making was that it is possible to kill each boss with just three players. Whether it's possible to get gold, especially after the boss nerfs, I don't know. That said, unless you're farming festival tokens, you don't really gain all that much for going for gold.

I have not been in one Blitz where three players are happily taking on one boss. I have also not been in one Blitz where the three players on one boss are "sitting there and eating damage while autoattacking".

You don't see just three players taking on a boss because most try to use the LFG rather than bother. There are people constantly sitting there and eating damage. You see this with the cannons and Wiggins, you see this with both of Kuraii's attacks, and so on. Players just don't care to get out of the orange fields. It's a laziness that won't be resolved due to how the game was designed and the lack of actual punishments for failures.

I can't work out how to do another quote, so I've emphasized your comment below:

Use the "greater than" symbol which shares a key with the period symbol.

"And yet I have not come cross a map instance that has a ton of players doing the gauntlet to the point that there's only 18 players down below. The players being random our not have really no bearing on their skill level."

Oh come on. If I randomly sample 18 players from the active PvE player base in the game, do you really think I only need those players to get gold/silver in the Blitz? (Bronze reward is irrelevant here because it's not timed.) By your argument - that 18 players is a sufficient number to get gold - then a map of 40-50 players is guaranteed to get gold, because that's more than twice your base number of 18.

I never said 18 players were sufficient for gold; just that three players can kill a boss by themselves. The point that I was making in what you quoted was that I have never seen that many players up above, on a full map, so that there's only 18 players down below.

You have to take into consideration at what point bosses start to scale which I think was when you have seven players. Generally, the average player cannot make up for how much they scale something which means it takes longer than it normally would without them. There are some situations where the scaling is capped, like with how Anet nerfed Gerent, so that you can simply zerg the bosses without any repercussions.

EDIT:

Actually, assuming that this is still correct, I was wrong and the bosses start scaling at five players. That means that Anet had designed the bosses to be done with four players.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/26vke4/boss_blitz_scaling_revelead/

I also remember another player and I camping Kuraii's spawn and getting it to 90% before the subgroup got there. There's definitely a possibility that you could get gold with 3-4 players at each boss although it'd be difficult to test it without randoms joining in. You/d have to wait for a patch so that new players couldn't join and existing ones would filter out as they updated.

[Hesione.9412]

Going back to my original post:

@Hesione.9412 said:Please remove the Queen's Gauntlet into another instance. It's negatively affecting comm ability to get full squads in for Boss Blitz. I had only 21 out of 29 players in my map, with the other 8 reporting a full map. No point in LFGing.

Doing bosses with only 21 active players seems unintended.

The last sentence is the part that everyone has focussed on. This was an aside.

The problem is that I can't get all my squad members in.

[Ayrilana.1396]

A map can hold at least 50 so you're saying that there are 29 players up top doing gauntlet?

The bosses supposedly don't start scaling until the fifth player so it seems that being able to do the meta with twenty four players is intended.

[Hesione.9412]

My comment is:

@Hesione.9412 said:Please remove the Queen's Gauntlet into another instance. It's negatively affecting comm ability to get full squads in for Boss Blitz. I had only 21 out of 29 players in my map, with the other 8 reporting a full map. No point in LFGing.

Doing bosses with only 21 active players seems unintended.

I am reporting that squad members could not get into a map, telling me that the map was full. I am reporting that only 21 out of 29 squad members could get into the same map. I am stating that with only 21 out of 29 people in a map, there is no point in going into LFG to add more people to the squad. I know that I can get > 40 players into a squad into my map because I've run squads that large.

Nothing that you are saying is relevant to my point. Which is: in one meta, only 21 out of 29 players could into the map on which I was trying to command. That was after shifting maps twice because, on the other two, even fewer players could get in.

Players in a squad have a reasonable expectation they can get all get into the same map. With a squad of only 29 people, the expectation of everyone being in the same map is more than reasonable. That only 21 people could is, surely, unintended so something is going on with the map player cap.

[Stelawrat.6589]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Hesione.9412 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Hesione.9412 said:The majority of these squads aren't filled with people who raid. Arguing that three people can down a boss is irrelevant unless we're talking about a map of raid-level players.

They don't have to be raid quality players. There is a wide range between those that just sit there and eat damage while auto attacking and raid players.

"And yet I have not come cross a map instance that has a ton of players doing the gauntlet to the point that there's only 18 players down below. The players being random our not have really no bearing on their skill level."

Oh come on. If I

randomly sample

18 players from the active PvE player base in the game, do you really think I only need those players to get gold/silver in the Blitz? (Bronze reward is irrelevant here because it's not timed.) By your argument - that 18 players is a sufficient number to get gold - then a map of 40-50 players is guaranteed to get gold, because that's more than twice your base number of 18.

I never said 18 players were sufficient for gold; just that three players can kill a boss by themselves. The point that I was making in what you quoted was that I have never seen that many players up above, on a full map, so that there's only 18 players down below.

You have to take into consideration at what point bosses start to scale which I think was when you have seven players. Generally, the average player cannot make up for how much they scale something which means it takes longer than it normally would without them.

There are some situations where the scaling is capped, like with how Anet nerfed Gerent, so that you can simply zerg the bosses without any repercussions.

EDIT:

Actually, assuming that this is still correct, I was wrong and

the bosses start scaling at five players.

That means that Anet had designed the bosses to be done with four players.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/26vke4/boss_blitz_scaling_revelead/

I also remember another player and I camping Kuraii's spawn and getting it to 90% before the subgroup got there. There's definitely a possibility that you could get gold with 3-4 players at each boss although it'd be difficult to test it without randoms joining in. You/d have to wait for a patch so that new players couldn't join and existing ones would filter out as they updated.

As someone new to these types of really big boss fights, it wouldn't bother me at all, in fact I'd appreciate it, if experienced players would give tips like that during the wait time. I already knew that it was better to wp vs laying around if downed, only because I read about it somewhere, but I regularly see downed players waiting for a rez.

The scaling makes sense, but at no time during the wait time for any of the fights I've participated in, did anyone /say to try to split up, to attack all of the six bosses at the same time, vs one after the other individually. I could be wrong of course, but it always seems like everyone heads to the same boss... no matter how many players are present.

Maybe a goofy question then, but because of the scaling, is it helpful or harmful, to even be in the same zone, killing the smaller, support bosses, not the main one?

EDIT: Also, I apologize to Hesione.9412.I realize that my post here isn't the point that Hesione.9412 was trying to make... sorry.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Hesione.9412 said:My comment is:

@Hesione.9412 said:Please remove the Queen's Gauntlet into another instance. It's negatively affecting comm ability to get full squads in for Boss Blitz. I had only 21 out of 29 players in my map, with the other 8 reporting a full map. No point in LFGing.

Doing bosses with only 21 active players seems unintended.

I am reporting that squad members could not get into a map, telling me that the map was full. I am reporting that only 21 out of 29 squad members could get into the same map. I am stating that with only 21 out of 29 people in a map, there is no point in going into LFG to add more people to the squad. I know that I can get > 40 players into a squad into my map because I've run squads that large.

Then that means you have around 29 people running on the map outside of your squad. Why not invite them into your squad? What you’re experiencing would not be any different from any other map in the game.

Nothing that you are saying is relevant to my point. Which is: in one meta, only 21 out of 29 players could into the map on which I was trying to command. That was after shifting maps twice because, on the other two, even fewer players could get in.

No, you’re just dismissing my posts because they’re against yours. You want the gauntlet moved into another instance because you didn’t have enough players in your squad. You blame the gauntlet when it is unlikely that there were twenty nine players up there. It’s more plausible that the majority of those not in your squad were down below. They could be farming kills, doing the race/adventure, or AFK.

Players in a squad have a reasonable expectation they can get all get into the same map. With a squad of only 29 people, the expectation of everyone being in the same map is more than reasonable. That only 21 people could is, surely, unintended so something is going on with the map player cap.

Then you must be new to the game because being in a squad has never guaranteed that everyone will be on the same map. This is especially true when it involves something popular such as a meta. Maps fill up automatically as players join them. You simply joined one that was half full already. With a squad of 29 players, surely you could have found another map that was more empty.

[Linken.6345]

Do remember that there is a throttleing when trying to fill up maps so it might say full but if they keep trying the will get in.

[Jilora.9524]

Been apart of many gold rounds. Others seem to fill a mostly boss blitz map just fine. I get you experienced an issue maybe 1 time maybe every if you are unlucky but I doubt they will change

[Hesione.9412]

@Hesione.9412 said:Please remove the Queen's Gauntlet into another instance. It's negatively affecting comm ability to get full squads in for Boss Blitz. I had only 21 out of 29 players in my map, with the other 8 reporting a full map. No point in LFGing.

Doing bosses with only 21 active players seems unintended.

In other places in this thread I have said that I shifted maps twice to try to get an emptier map. The last shift was to a map where the squad member said was empty.

@Linken.6345 said:Do remember that there is a throttleing when trying to fill up maps so it might say full but if they keep trying the will get in.Thanks Linken. I tell people in the squad to spam join map. Eventually they got in (but after the Blitz had started) but it took longer than a minute. The fact that people spam join map is an indicator that there is something wrong with getting a squad into the same map.

Ayrilana, you refuse to address my OP, which I have copied into later comments. You then blame me, and make snide attacks against me. I'm out.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Hesione.9412 said:Ayrilana, you refuse to address my OP, which I have copied into later comments. You then blame me, and make snide attacks against me. I'm out.

I have addressed your OP and other posts continuously throughout this thread. Nowhere have I made snide attacks. Disagreeing with you and countering what you said is not an attack against you and certainly not one you can categorize as “snide”.