Chests that contain other chest, that contain bags, that contain trash.

[Aodlop.1907]

I'd rather have fewer rewards, but meaningful ones, than being constantly flooded with worthless garbage and having to open terrible containers all the time.

[Ototo.3214]

Part of it is sort of a consequence of moving most gear drops to unidentified gear at level 80. You'll get things like bag of rare gear that opens into a rare unidentified gear that you then have to identify. I've been hoping they'd trim some of this stuff but it hasn't changed.But yeah, a lot of HoT stuff has this issue with the caches and a lot of PvP/reward tracks give boxes with more boxes too.

[Cuks.8241]

Meta event 10 minutes, opening chests 15 minutes.

[HotDelirium.7984]

It used to be worse before that one loot overhaul a few years ago. We all sell most of it anyways so I'd rather just get a tiny but of coins as loot (aside from trophy and AP drops) instead of trash after trash after trash. When it comes to the recyclers like Herta and Princess I wish all of the drops were sellable. Some stuff just isn't, not even on the market or to a merchant so IMO all items in this game should be sellable even if its only 1 copper.

[Ayrilana.1396]

What percentage of players use blue, green, and/or yellow gear? Would things be better if the raw materials dropped instead?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Many games do this, its due to to the psychological myth that people respond better to having a constant flow of low-quality items than a few high-quality items that take days or weeks to appear, or in the more hardcore MMOs, even months or years.

Its playing on the illusion that you're getting something when you're getting nothing, and may never get anything. So you keep playing in the hopes that you'll get something significant, while sorting through inventories full of nothing, day in and day out.

Its not uncommon to have a psychiatrist or similar on dev teams to maximise player retention (addiction). Its been a long time but back near the start of the game I think the devs even talked about using this tactic, hiring someone specialising in psychology, in order to fine tune their game towards it. But honestly after all this time I doubt that's the case anymore, its likely just habitual at this point.

Sometimes these tactics are used with real money sales (e.g lootboxes), and then it gets into seriously gray areas.

I'm surprised they gave us unidentified gear and a 2nd equipment tab, as it saved alot on bag slots, and part of their former business model was also to flood us with as many items as possible in order to force us to buy bag slots. They still do this with bank slots; that's why there's so much Account Bound items, not to improve the econemy but to make sure you need lots of bank space to store it, and never making it clear whether you'll need an item down the road or not so you don't know whether its safe to delete it without extensive research and a little risk.

I'm sorry if this seems pessimistic, but its the reality of online gaming.

[Ototo.3214]

@Hannelore.8153 said:Many games do this, its due to to the psychological myth that people respond better to having a constant flow of low-quality items than a few high-quality items that take days or weeks to appear, or in the more hardcore MMOs, even months or years.

Its playing on the illusion that you're getting something when you're getting nothing, and may never get anything. So you keep playing in the hopes that you'll get something significant, while sorting through inventories full of nothing, day in and day out.

Its not uncommon to have a psychiatrist or similar on dev teams to maximise player retention (addiction). Its been a long time but back near the start of the game I think the devs even talked about using this tactic, hiring someone specialising in psychology, in order to fine tune their game towards it. But honestly after all this time I doubt that's the case anymore, its likely just habitual at this point.

Sometimes these tactics are used with real money sales (e.g lootboxes), and then it gets into seriously gray areas.

I'm surprised they gave us unidentified gear and a 2nd equipment tab, as it saved alot on bag slots, and part of their former business model was also to flood us with as many items as possible in order to force us to buy bag slots. They still do this with bank slots; that's why there's so much Account Bound items, not to improve the econemy but to make sure you need lots of bank space to store it, and never making it clear whether you'll need an item down the road or not so you don't know whether its safe to delete it without extensive research and a little risk.

I'm sorry if this seems pessimistic, but its the reality of online gaming.

Except... it's not nothing. The only drops I get that I consider basically nothing is luck, and that is purely because I'm at the cap. But even those have a use if I really want to save them til lunar new year. Junk items can still be vendored for some coin, and I can confirm that magic find helps reduce the amount of junk items that you get.But stuff like unidentified gear and other mats can be salvaged and refined and crafted into things which can then be sold for decent gold. They have a value in game and I honestly don't mind getting a bunch of mats given that this game also provides a mat storage for it.I do prefer getting a bunch of smaller drops than that being taken away and instead hoping I get the big drop.

Now, is it ok to have gear that's only real purpose is to be broken down into mats? Idk, maybe the mats themselves should just drop instead, but the gear ain't worthless because of that.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Many games do this, its due to to the psychological myth that people respond better to having a constant flow of low-quality items than a few high-quality items that take days or weeks to appear, or in the more hardcore MMOs, even months or years.

Its playing on the illusion that you're getting something when you're getting nothing, and may never get anything. So you keep playing in the hopes that you'll get something significant, while sorting through inventories full of nothing, day in and day out.

Its not uncommon to have a psychiatrist or similar on dev teams to maximise player retention (addiction). Its been a long time but back near the start of the game I think the devs even talked about using this tactic, hiring someone specialising in psychology, in order to fine tune their game towards it. But honestly after all this time I doubt that's the case anymore, its likely just habitual at this point.

Sometimes these tactics are used with real money sales (e.g lootboxes), and then it gets into seriously gray areas.

I'm surprised they gave us unidentified gear and a 2nd equipment tab, as it saved alot on bag slots, and part of their former business model was also to flood us with as many items as possible in order to force us to buy bag slots. They still do this with bank slots; that's why there's so much Account Bound items, not to improve the econemy but to make sure you need lots of bank space to store it, and never making it clear whether you'll need an item down the road or not so you don't know whether its safe to delete it without extensive research and a little risk.

I'm sorry if this seems pessimistic, but its the reality of online gaming.

Except... it's not nothing. The only drops I get that I consider basically nothing is luck, and that is purely because I'm at the cap. But even those have a use if I really want to save them til lunar new year. Junk items can still be vendored for some coin, and I can confirm that magic find helps reduce the amount of junk items that you get.But stuff like unidentified gear and other mats can be salvaged and refined and crafted into things which can then be sold for decent gold. They have a value in game and I honestly don't mind getting a bunch of mats given that this game also provides a mat storage for it.I do prefer getting a bunch of smaller drops than that being taken away and instead hoping I get the big drop.

Now, is it ok to have gear that's only real purpose is to be broken down into mats? Idk, maybe the mats themselves should just drop instead, but the gear ain't worthless because of that.

I get what you're saying but the thread wasn't about how useful each individual item is, its how they're stacked into pyramids where you open one low-quality thing to get another low-quality thing, which then has to be opened to get another low-quality thing, and then you have to salvage that to get the materials, which are then suitable for selling on the Trading Post.

My post was about how this gives the illusion that you're getting alot of loot when all you really got was a few low value mats, and maybe the occasional super-rare Exotic drop that gives you 30s in a direct sale instead of salvaging.

But only after you open absolutely everything for the max chance on your rolls.

[Naxos.2503]

When it come to unidentified gear, I benefit, since I can stack 2-3 gold worth of gear in 3 inventory slots for a couple of events. I do have a gripe against = Bloodstone/Empyreal crystals/Dragonite Ore and copper tier junk items.

For the aforemented 3, I get it, you need to put these a bit everywhere because high tier crafting shouldn't discriminate which version of the game you're playing. Can we still... tone it down a bit ? I get more stacks than I can carry. As for the copper tier junk items : come on. I'm level 80 with thousands of achievement points. Give me -silver- at the very least, copper is just a waste of space and gets insta trashed because most mobs give me different ones and my space is more valuable than -coppers-.

[Redfeather.6401]

I really don't enjoy how looting feels like a trash collection. Has anyone played rpg besides guild wars 2 where looting feels so boring.

[Ototo.3214]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Many games do this, its due to to the psychological myth that people respond better to having a constant flow of low-quality items than a few high-quality items that take days or weeks to appear, or in the more hardcore MMOs, even months or years.

Its playing on the illusion that you're getting something when you're getting nothing, and may never get anything. So you keep playing in the hopes that you'll get something significant, while sorting through inventories full of nothing, day in and day out.

Its not uncommon to have a psychiatrist or similar on dev teams to maximise player retention (addiction). Its been a long time but back near the start of the game I think the devs even talked about using this tactic, hiring someone specialising in psychology, in order to fine tune their game towards it. But honestly after all this time I doubt that's the case anymore, its likely just habitual at this point.

Sometimes these tactics are used with real money sales (e.g lootboxes), and then it gets into seriously gray areas.

I'm surprised they gave us unidentified gear and a 2nd equipment tab, as it saved alot on bag slots, and part of their former business model was also to flood us with as many items as possible in order to force us to buy bag slots. They still do this with bank slots; that's why there's so much Account Bound items, not to improve the econemy but to make sure you need lots of bank space to store it, and never making it clear whether you'll need an item down the road or not so you don't know whether its safe to delete it without extensive research and a little risk.

I'm sorry if this seems pessimistic, but its the reality of online gaming.

Except... it's not nothing. The only drops I get that I consider basically nothing is luck, and that is purely because I'm at the cap. But even those have a use if I really want to save them til lunar new year. Junk items can still be vendored for some coin, and I can confirm that magic find helps reduce the amount of junk items that you get.But stuff like unidentified gear and other mats can be salvaged and refined and crafted into things which can then be sold for decent gold. They have a value in game and I honestly don't mind getting a bunch of mats given that this game also provides a mat storage for it.I do prefer getting a bunch of smaller drops than that being taken away and instead hoping I get the big drop.

Now, is it ok to have gear that's only real purpose is to be broken down into mats? Idk, maybe the mats themselves should just drop instead, but the gear ain't worthless because of that.

I get what you're saying but the thread wasn't about how useful each individual item is, its how they're stacked into pyramids where you open one low-quality thing to get another low-quality thing, which then has to be opened to get another low-quality thing, and then you have to salvage that to get the materials, which are then suitable for selling on the Trading Post.

My post was about how this gives the illusion that you're getting alot of loot when all you really got was a few low value mats, and maybe the occasional super-rare Exotic drop that gives you 30s in a direct sale instead of salvaging.

But only after you open absolutely everything for the max chance on your rolls.

That is true. But like I mentioned earlier I think part of that is a consequence of the change to unidentified gear since the loot tables for a lot of bags had gear in them which got switched to unidentified gear which is now also another bag. I feel like it's mainly older content that has this issue though, as newer maps like drizzlewood seem to yield more straight up mats right from the chest you loot as opposed to a ton more bags. I get the impression the bags within bags thing may have just been a way to give more loot in 1 item without potentially encumbering your inventory from opening 1 bag or chest. And though the unidentified gear can be a hassle at times, I do prefer it to when your inventory just filled up with gear and forced you to manage it right then and there.I absolutely hate the MF affected caches in HoT maps though, I feel like they're the biggest offender. They all do the same one but there's like 30 different kinds so they still eat a lot of inventory space while also having more bags inside them sometimes.

[Harak.8397]

It's designed to fill up your bags a third of the way through the meta event you are participating in so you either have to take time off to sort the junk out and risk missing out on the event or, buy more bag slots ( now 40% off ! ) I'm kidding, maybe. It's just how it feels to me sometimes :p

[dace.8019]

The endless slew of vendor trash and basic crafting supplies, concealed within bags within boxes within chests exist to mask the almost complete lack of worthwhile items you can actually loot in the game. I think it also allows more discrete compartmentalising of some loot tables and allows ANet to manage rewards by activity. Almost all of the worthwhile rewards in the game have a track, achievement, recipe, currency or some such other means of acquisition. This is fundamentally a credit to the game, IMO. But it does mean that the lootable items are very boring and a chore to manage. I've noticed, lately, some attention in this regard where you can loot some better items as part of reward cycles and that has added much needed spice to the loot system, so perhaps it's being recognised.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

I don't actually have a problem with it at all.

Here's the thing, you just have to open them in the right order and at the right time.

The fact that unidentified items stack means I can just move them to the bottom of my inventory to an invisible bag and forget about them until the stack reaches 250.

Chests I do the same. Move them down the bottom and forget until you are finished with the particular area.

Now, open chests 1st since they give the UNID items. You should be able to open all the chests with right click, Open All. 2 clicks to open up to 250 items. Once the chests are open, don't deposit all. Then you just Open All on your blue unid, when it fills the inventory and you are encumbered, deposit all, salvage, repeat until it's all broken down, and then do your greens and yellows.

Deposit all is such an amazing feature.

There is no need for anyone to be playing inventory wars every time they play. Just let it accumulate, once the stack hits 250, then do it. Or just save it all and do it weekly. Delay the gratification and you will spend much less time doing it too. If you do this, you can open and salvage thousands of items in just a few minutes once a week.

[Svarty.8019]

@Hannelore.8153 said:Its playing on the illusion that you're getting something when you're getting nothing, and may never get anything. So you keep playing in the hopes that you'll get something significant, while sorting through inventories full of nothing, day in and day out.

Don't players know this?I mean, PvE players aren't playing for rewards are they? It's fun and community they want, right?

[kharmin.7683]

@Cuks.8241 said:Meta event 10 minutes, opening chests 15 minutes.Selling junk through the laggy trading post 30 minutes

[Galmac.4680]

@Cuks.8241 said:Meta event 10 minutes, opening chests 15 minutes.

Because of that they made the latest meta event over 2 hours long.

[Ayrilana.1396]

How could Anet give more worthwhile loot that will remain worthwhile?