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NO Downstate should STAY permanently. - [Merged]


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Its turned into a whole event of people playing cheese builds that just blow people up because they have nothing to fear. Once you're a corpse on the ground from a 5sec nuke your allies can't even ress you anymore due to being in combat.

So one person can decide the outcome of an entire battle that's supposed to be a war between two sides.

This feature doesn't work for a game with no true rezz skills. No one wants to play a game where you just die and that's it, you're just dead for the rest of the battle no matter how long it lasts, with no chance of ever getting back in the action again unless you WP and then spend 10mins coming back on your cat that's about the speed of a cow. And that's not even getting into how it affects water combat.

WvW has just had too many nerfs to everything for this to work anymore, its frustrating and little else.

There's been complaint after complaint about downstate, sustain, high TTK, I don't understand why people like dying so much. I don't understand why they like being a corpse on the ground. I don't understand why they like walking back forever.

Why are you all so obsessed with these things? Why don't you like fighting?

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@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:Well, no. Every class out there has mechanics tied to the downed-state. Some Elite Specializations are designed to utilize the downed state in a special way. During the no-downed-state week, each of those is kicked into a trash-bin. We do not get a compensation for all the skills that stopped working.

Oh and btw. ANet is selling finishers. Good luck removing an income source in one of the two game-modes, finishers actually matter.

Tbh most of the time you cleave a person to death. Pressing F to finish is not the most efficient way. I rarely see finishers being used.

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What are all these "one shot" builds people are talking about? Been seeing a lot less glass thieves tbh, since they will also get melted easy.. I mean, doesn't it make more sense to run a condi build since you can die even if you escape into a tower but condis are still on you lol.

The other thing is if you were running alone and got ganked; what does downstate do in that case? Or if you run into a zerg. The importance of it is somewhat exaggerated in some cases. And really, if you're that afraid of dying in this game mode, either learn to build a toon that takes more damage, or WvW really isn't for you. Even a player like me that instantly WPs when I hear we may be outnumbered still ends up dying now and then, sheesh lol.

Also I'm running Scrapper a good chunk of this time, so I don't want to hear about this "you need no downstate" when my class mechanic doesn't work and I still have to keep people alive. I mean, I don't really care either way; the drama is just silly. If you are the type that constantly goes down, it's a good time to practice lasting longer so you won't be such an annoyance to your support that has to rez you like multiple times to a fight, putting your whole crew in danger.

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Yeah, instant downstate kills are a fun diversion every now and when, but like 75% here really hate it. I am not that fond of it myself as it removes a tactical aspect from the game. I like getting up downies in our zerg. You cannot go full offensive tagging a lot of people hoping on a rally if things go south either. Zerg fights consist of turtling people fearing to get instakilled. No downstate is nothing I would like to see permanently.

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Today I play WvW and I have to admit that it made me feel like a few years.

The Zerg busting and the possibility of winning fifths outnumbered, or at least be able to confront the blob.

There should be a way to combine no downstate and being in a zerg. I do not know if it is possible, but it should work as;

You are with 20 or 30 friendly players, maybe in the same territory, and there is less enemies, so you do not have downstate but they have it.

I do not know, maybe they should think about this seriously.

It is possible that we have find a solution to divide the full map blob in different and smaller groups.

People in different sections of the map, also could provide less skill lag.

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In favor.

OP, I will use your first two paragraphs as my reason. To me, that's enough! Some people on these forums don't seem to understand that big squads and zergs are not always available 24/7. It's a luxury at times. So what do you have left? Roamers, havocs. They keep the server active when not in prime time. With no downstate, at least they can fight back. It's as you said, you burst and burst, huff and puff, use up all your skills to take out that ONE scourge, FB or any other support in that zerg then -- poof -- insta res. It's ridiculous.

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@vier.1327 said:You are with 20 or 30 friendly players, maybe in the same territory, and there is less enemies, so you do not have downstate but they have it.

useless. if you are outnumbered you will mostly die the moment you go into downstate.but! what could be interesting is the use...

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:Also I'm running Scrapper a good chunk of this time, so I don't want to hear about this "you need no downstate" when my class mechanic doesn't work and I still have to keep people alive. I mean, I don't really care either way; the drama is just silly. If you are the type that constantly goes down, it's a good time to practice lasting longer so you won't be such an annoyance to your support that has to rez you like multiple times to a fight, putting your whole crew in danger.

...of revive skills on dead players instead of on downed. just make it so a revived player can't be revived again if he dies unless he comes back by normal means.that could be either used out of combat only or whenever you want.

Or it can be used only 30s after a person's death. something like that.

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I dont know why people complain about downstate. It's literally a boon if you manage to put one player into a down, because you'll then get 4-5 players on their side Not fighting and grouping together in the same spot. It's a revenant/elementalist dream. You know you can use it against them, but you choose not to.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"ASP.8093" said:My experience with "no downstate" week is that a lot of zergs are playing skittish, groups of 30 are trying to stealth-and-portal bomb groups of 10

If that works so well in no-downstate, then explain why it doesn't work with downstate. You mean the 10 people in downstate that got bombed still outplay the almost full health 30 standing on them? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....

It doesn't actually work that great imo, it's just a symptom of their weird skittishness.

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I was a fan of the no-downstate weeks in the past, but I have to admit it has been kind of boring so far over the weekend. Maybe the novelty wore off already for me. For 25+ vs 25+ it's very pirate-shippy. Range spike, range spike, range spike, THEN maybe someone will finally push for the knockout if they gained a numbers advantage from all the range spiking. Fights also feel less tactical because the whole downstate mechanic is gone. No pushing through to secure downs, no "plays" to be made playing support where you can save someone with a ranged rez (makes support even MORE boring to play), no decisions to be made from either side over whether or not hand-rezzing is worth it or if you'll get punished. It's just a whole dynamic missing from fights. Just range spike, range spike, range spike.

Unorganized skirmishes or roaming favors certain classes way more than others, namely Soulbeast. Very little risk to play longbow Soulbeast and all of the rewards. I played it for about an hour before it just got boring. Literally just use all your buffs and press 2 on someone, hoping they don't dodge. Even if they do dodge you can probably finish them off with a few auto attacks from complete safety. Get jumped? No problem, the class is still extremely strong in melee as well. It's not fun or skilled gameplay and it shouldn't be rewarded with ez kills. I don't want "Wallbeast" to become meta.

The only area where I think no downstate is good is for zergbusting. Unfortunately the downsides outweigh this for me, and I sincerely think it would make the game way worse to remove it. WvW isn't easy to balance because there are so many different ways people play it, but in the end, it should be balanced for even-numbered group vs group fights. In that regard, I think downstate adds another layer of strategy to fights. It's not always obvious until it's gone and fights feel very one-dimensional.

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@Khenzy.9348 said:Nothing more egregious, frustrating, enraging than fighing outnumbered, tooth and nails, giving it your all, clearly outplaying your opponent and finally managing to get someone down, only for that downed to get almost instantly ressed, again, and again and again. A simple and stupidly implemented mechanic just invalidated all your effort, that's what it feels like.We are outnumbered and already using our CC skills, stabilities and defensives to barely stay alive and perfectly time those bursts. I don't even try to stomp most of the time as 90% to 100% of my HP goes away and I get downed instead (or perma CCed of course), this became even worse after the damage reduction patch because damaging the downed body is worthless 9 and a half out of 10 times. It's like the game with its mechanics is actively fighing against you winning, it's incredibly frustrating. A feeling of complete impotence overwhelms you after someone you fought so hard to down is suddenly alive and well just because some people used something as simplistic as the interact keybind on the downed body and there was almost nothing you could do about it, and they will also have stability and other kitten because this mechanic gets exponentially worse the more people you're fighting against.

It so heavily and blatantly favours those that outnumber you, even if you vastly outskill them, that completely neuters any fun many of us have with the game.

Downed state is GOOD in Structured PvP.Downed state is GOOD in PvE.Downed state is absolutely terrible in WvW.

Now that we don't have downed state I've been having the most fun ever.

Suggestion:The downed mechanic is ONLY activated for those that have the Outnumbered buff.

I want to read WHY you are in favour or against.Hint: Elemetalist's Vapour form is NOT a good reason in favour.

I agree with no downstate in wvw. It evens out the odds when it comes to large battles, and no more dropping banners or toss elixir r to get downed players back up. Everyone who deals damage above a threshold gets loot, but the player that deals the finishing blow automatically plays their finisher.

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For a mechanic which actively works against pirate shipping, and given how much complaining against the pirate ship meta there was, I'm a bit perplexed why people complain so much about it. Downed state lets your guy get back up after getting sniped by 1200 range or being really unlucky by getting hit with all the skills from the player-capped AOEs. We've all had it happen before, and it sure isn't fun.

All it does is help gankers and small groups that pour focused damage into stragglers. Zerg play is more boring and small groups can't showcase much in terms of aggressive playstyles, while being even further forced into safe DPS with pocket healers and boonballs.

Which is probably the only demographic which supports it. It makes their already-annoying-and-dfficult styles to deal with just better than the rest.

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@Khenzy.9348 said:It's like the game with its mechanics is actively fighing against you winning, it's incredibly frustrating.Converting downs is a basic skill. Just about every serious wvw guild teaches this.It's something that every decent player at this game learns.Those that don't?.... post threads on the forums I suppose.

I enjoy the no downstate as a temporary bonus meme, but to argue that removing this mechanic makes the game in any way more skillful because you refuse to get comfortable with a basic part of the game is pretty ridiculous.

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Agreed, downed state has no place in WvW. It's great and adds tons of depth to SPvP and PvE but in WvW all it does is benefit lesser skilled players zerging and outnumbering.

This week is the most fun I've ever had in WvW. Please keep this forever.

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:You wish for something that you'll regret and also you'll suffer from it.WvW is already on it's last legs with circus balance, but by removing downstate permanently you'll have increase in 1shot builds that abuse either stealth or mobility(much more than currently).In other words only few classes will truly benefit from it and others will be just a fodder for the latter.Another thing some classes/builds that barely are used will be also deleted by this change(staff power ele), beacuse the damage from sieges/enemies normally will down them a lot if they're unlucky with RNG.To even consider this 'change', A-net would need to do complete overhaul of combat traits/skills etc., which they won't do.You complain about fighting outnumbered and not being able to finish them, I'm gonna destroy your bubble, but you should lose outnumbered fights, doesn't matter how good you are...Just because some classes allow such cheese, doesn't mean you should take it for granted that it's fine...

If I get 1 shot by a 1 shot build I'm not going to get ressed because I'm perpetually outnumbered and don't play in zergs anyways.If one shot builds are overpowered, they're overpowered regardless or not downed state exists.

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@Naxos.2503 said:I dont know why people complain about downstate. It's literally a boon if you manage to put one player into a down, because you'll then get 4-5 players on their side Not fighting and grouping together in the same spot. It's a revenant/elementalist dream. You know you can use it against them, but you choose not to.

you don't understand. having several skills, if not all of them on cd to down someone just to see him come back isn't fun or rewarding at all.if 4-5 players helps a downed they will raize him so fast that your poor attempt at dealing damage to all of them will result in your death.when the fight is even and one is down, the downed can still dps and CC you. soem will just dps you instead of helping the downed while you are folcused on finishing that downed..in bus vs bus you often waste AOE on downed to be sure of their death instead of hitting the enemy, still alive.

5s later@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:One thing I heard all the time since Friday 'I can't wait for this event to be over'. From vet players. Who do not frequent the forum.

by vet players you mean veteran who plays only or mostly gw2, scared to go out of their confort zone blob to learn something new and adapt to the situation?they are the ones who play only/mostly bus in WvW and would hate any change that would nerf the bus, make their game experience harder.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:Agreed, downed state has no place in WvW. It's great and adds tons of depth to SPvP and PvE but in WvW all it does is benefit lesser skilled players zerging and outnumbering.I remain somewhat confused how people keep claiming it can be "great and add tons of depth to sPvP" when that is identical to a large part of WvW, ie roaming/smallscale.

Is zerging the definition of WvW now?

I guess it is. No downed state week reveals the true colors.

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As a player who actually loses as many fights as he wins in WvW, I would prefer Downed State to stay removed.Imho, there is nothing less epic than lying in the dirt and tossing scrap at your opponent. Maybe it's just my Dark Souls mindset, but if I mess up, it's fine for me to start over.

Perhaps, someone can start a poll on this? I'd be quite interested in the results.

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@Plautze.6290 said:As a player who actually loses as many fights as he wins in WvW, I would prefer Downed State to stay removed.Imho, there is nothing less epic than lying in the dirt and tossing scrap at your opponent. Maybe it's just my Dark Souls mindset, but if I mess up, it's fine for me to start over.

Perhaps, someone can start a poll on this? I'd be quite interested in the results.

The result will be that the majority of glass canon tryhards want downstate to stay, because they rely on being rezzed all the time

Downstate supports bad players and outnumbering !

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