So What's the point of Scourge in WvW now?

[jpsssss.7530]

Looking on metabattle it says its still meta, but i think in the past month i've seen one in a blob and it was a pug sooooo.... Is metabattle dated or am I just REALLY blind/dumb?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Metabattle is pretty bad anyway, I wouldn't use it to define it it's meta or not

As for Scourge, it is still good despite what people say, Boon corrupts, Shades,Wells,Barriers are still pretty good, I'd just say that Reaper is a good option aswell as Scourge.

[Dadnir.5038]

The area boon corruption didn't disappear nor it's need and scourge is the one with the most tools toward this end. The bit of barrier that you can provide to your allies stay valuable as well.

Sure it's weaker in damage and support but objectively it didn't lose it's usefulness. The difference is that now it's back to the necromancer's niche and don't step to hard on the toes of the dps professions.

[Teratus.2859]

Condi aoe spam everything!!

They're pretty good at that, many times i've been on a wall only to have like a million condis blasted at my feet xD

[Obtena.7952]

Something not being meta doesn't mean it there isn't a point to it.

[Anchoku.8142]

All major specializations of Necro are good for WvW zerging, including Scourge. Arenanet would have to nerf staff and wells a lot harder to kick Necro from zergs. The profession still stacks well.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Anchoku.8142 said:All major specializations of Necro are good for WvW zerging, including Scourge. Arenanet would have to nerf staff and wells a lot harder to kick Necro from zergs. The profession still stacks well.

The current Scourge setup doesn't use staff anymore though. All about the axe/scepter boon corrupts.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:All major specializations of Necro are good for WvW zerging, including Scourge. Arenanet would have to nerf staff and wells a lot harder to kick Necro from zergs. The profession still stacks well.

The current Scourge setup doesn't use staff anymore though. All about the axe/scepter boon corrupts.

Two more weapons with AoE corrupts along with Reaper Shroud that need nerfing for the good of all? If the balance team really wants to drop Necro from zergs to please the WvW community, they could limit all Necro AoE and cleaves in WvW either 1 or 2-target although I would increase the number of boons corrupted to compensate.

I doubt they would limit boons that way, though.

[Lahmia.2193]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:All major specializations of Necro are good for WvW zerging, including Scourge. Arenanet would have to nerf staff and wells a lot harder to kick Necro from zergs. The profession still stacks well.

The current Scourge setup doesn't use staff anymore though. All about the axe/scepter boon corrupts.

Two more weapons with AoE corrupts along with Reaper Shroud that need nerfing for the good of all? If the balance team really wants to drop Necro from zergs to please the WvW community, they could limit all Necro AoE and cleaves in WvW either 1 or 2-target although I would increase the number of boons corrupted to compensate.

I doubt they would limit boons that way, though.

Removing Boon/Condition conversion from the game would be the best step to take, and just make it removal instead. That would also help with the WvW lag.

[Nimon.7840]

It's still good, but other classes to the job better.

In short fights, necro has less strips than warriorIn longer fights it has less strips than chrono

Also in my opinion, right now removal of boons is better than conversion to conditions. Just due to the fact, that there's so many support scrappers running around converting those conditions back to boons.

It does a lot less damage on range than ele, rev or guardIt does a lot less damage melee than scrapper

And last but not least, it's unplayable as a support spec.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@jpsssss.7530 said:Looking on metabattle it says its still meta, but i think in the past month i've seen one in a blob and it was a pug sooooo.... Is metabattle dated or am I just REALLY blind/dumb?

Sitting in a zerg, spamming AoE and being the most broken pile of trash ever created. Dumping with like four of you tons of AoE cc and condi and having firebrands back you up. Scourge is strong as heck its just that most either try to run it like core/Reaper or they simply don't understand that its all about just blowing people up, you'll need support but with stability you're a monster and one of the few classes who can still preform optimally with little change from playstyle that came with the feb patch.

[jpsssss.7530]

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@jpsssss.7530 said:Looking on metabattle it says its still meta, but i think in the past month i've seen one in a blob and it was a pug sooooo.... Is metabattle dated or am I just REALLY blind/dumb?

Sitting in a zerg, spamming AoE and being the most broken pile of trash ever created. Dumping with like four of you tons of AoE cc and condi and having firebrands back you up. Scourge is strong as heck its just that most either try to run it like core/Reaper or they simply don't understand that its all about just blowing people up, you'll need support but with stability you're a monster and one of the few classes who can still preform optimally with little change from playstyle that came with the feb patch.

Did you see the July patch? I'm pretty sure its butt cheeks now because baby shades are pretty bad (too long of a cooldown and big shade is a pile of kitten.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@jpsssss.7530 said:

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@jpsssss.7530 said:Looking on metabattle it says its still meta, but i think in the past month i've seen one in a blob and it was a pug sooooo.... Is metabattle dated or am I just REALLY blind/dumb?

Sitting in a zerg, spamming AoE and being the most broken pile of trash ever created. Dumping with like four of you tons of AoE cc and condi and having firebrands back you up. Scourge is strong as heck its just that most either try to run it like core/Reaper or they simply don't understand that its all about just blowing people up, you'll need support but with stability you're a monster and one of the few classes who can still preform optimally with little change from playstyle that came with the feb patch.

Did you see the July patch? I'm pretty sure its butt cheeks now because baby shades are pretty bad (too long of a cooldown and big shade is a pile of kitten.

You still see them everywhere though? But they've always piggy backed off of firebrand. So as long as firebrand and guardian persist to be strong, as they are likely the strongest heavy armor class in the game right now? Then scourge will be fine. Plus most stuck to zerg play anyhow, id never play a scourge for small man while Reaper and core are sitting there and can put in much more work on that front.

[misterman.1530]

Nah, I see a Scourge, even in a zerg, we target him, he drops. Splat. Have met a couple of, I kid you not, roaming scourges....all by their little free bag loneliness. I play a tanky core necro, and am surprised at how quickly the scourge drops. I have a little more problem with reapers, but scourges. I love meeting them. Sure, IF you have a group dedicated to keeping the scourge safe and stable, then it can put up some good numbers. If.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@misterman.1530 said:Nah, I see a Scourge, even in a zerg, we target him, he drops. Splat. Have met a couple of, I kid you not, roaming scourges....all by their little free bag loneliness. I play a tanky core necro, and am surprised at how quickly the scourge drops. I have a little more problem with reapers, but scourges. I love meeting them. Sure, IF you have a group dedicated to keeping the scourge safe and stable, then it can put up some good numbers. If.

Generally the roaming scourges are pretty bad but I've met a couple that were actually really good. Im sure they were able to kill more players 1v1 than could kill them, but I'm sure core necro is a good counter to it just as much as DE thief (actually most DEs would have died to a couple of them...i just bring a lot of condi cleanse so i didn't)

Cheers, see you in game!!

[Galmac.4680]

Yep, I roam with my scourge and feel like a loot bag after the last big nerfs. :/Worked a little better with the sand savant (despite that kitten nerfs). But the fun is gone.

[Shiyo.3578]

I think scourge is in a worse spot not than it was before the shade revamp in every game mode.You're playing reaper in any game mode if you want to play Necro, which tbh isn't even a "necromancer" and is just a warrior with a scythe....

[Sombike.6291]

Not to self promote or anything, but this fight was one of many from yesterday ... and I'd say Scourge is still top dog in wvw, even after the NEEDED nerfs to the class!

[Sobx.1758]

@Galmac.4680 said:Yep, I roam with my scourge and feel like a loot bag after the last big nerfs. :/Worked a little better with the sand savant (despite that kitten nerfs). But the fun is gone.

I think the only time scourge was ever passable for roaming was when it was overtuned as kitten, I'm not sure why you're surprised here. Still strong in large scale.

[Anchoku.8142]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Galmac.4680 said:Yep, I roam with my scourge and feel like a loot bag after the last big nerfs. :/Worked a little better with the sand savant (despite that kitten nerfs). But the fun is gone.

I think the only time scourge was ever passable for roaming was when it was overtuned as kitten, I'm not sure why you're surprised here. Still strong in large scale.

Pretty sure Scourge was not even designed for roaming. It was OP in WvW and PvP for a while but that was more of an accident resulting from PvE-oriented design and the ambitious goal of countering boon spam in WvW-PvP when pretty-close to all other professions cannot help generating boons at a rapid pace.

The high rate of boon-corruption capability and overlapping barriers were big miscalculations that made Scourge's role so potent. Neither of these capabilities are very valuable in PvE and naturally have limited and diminishing returns there. That is why I think Scourge's design was PvE-centric and not really supposed to roam.

Scourges zerging in WvW were probably intended to be glassier compared to core in exchange for more boon-hate but stacking Necro's has always caused unintended consequences. Intentionally less sustain also suggests roaming performance would be worse, too.

I kind of hope Arenanet separates barrier support and boon-hate so both are not available on the same build and players can do either in PvE without being nerfed in dps or utility.

[Lily.1935]

@"Sombike.6291" said:Not to self promote or anything, but this fight was one of many from yesterday ... and I'd say Scourge is still top dog in wvw, even after the NEEDED nerfs to the class!

I'm sorry, but I don't see what you're providing in that situation. You're not doing a lot of damage and you're not beating the boons even close. It looks to me like the firebrand is doing all the labor while you are getting a free ride. Doesn't even look like you're providing much support either.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Lily.1935 said:

@Sombike.6291 said:Not to self promote or anything, but this fight was one of many from yesterday ... and I'd say Scourge is still top dog in wvw, even after the NEEDED nerfs to the class!

I'm sorry, but I don't see what you're providing in that situation. You're not doing a lot of damage and you're not beating the boons even close. It looks to me like the firebrand is doing all the labor while you are getting a free ride. Doesn't even look like you're providing much support either.

What else would you expect of a zerg feist? It's just a large group of players mowing down another, no real subtility or player skill involved except for the lead. Scourge is still of value in there but not as overwhelmingly valuable than it was previously.

[Lily.1935]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@Sombike.6291 said:Not to self promote or anything, but this fight was one of many from yesterday ... and I'd say Scourge is still top dog in wvw, even after the NEEDED nerfs to the class!

I'm sorry, but I don't see what you're providing in that situation. You're not doing a lot of damage and you're not beating the boons even close. It looks to me like the firebrand is doing all the labor while you are getting a free ride. Doesn't even look like you're providing much support either.

What else would you expect of a zerg feist? It's just a large group of players mowing down another, no real subtility or player skill involved except for the lead. Scourge is still of value in there but not as overwhelmingly valuable than it was previously.

I think they'd have been better off running core necromancer personally. More striking power and they offer up some valuable debuffs. That boon spam though is just awful. Its one of the aspects I despise about WvW. Both sides had almost permanent all boon uptime and its just a clash of whose the most booned.

[Sobx.1758]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Galmac.4680 said:Yep, I roam with my scourge and feel like a loot bag after the last big nerfs. :/Worked a little better with the sand savant (despite that kitten nerfs). But the fun is gone.

I think the only time scourge was ever passable for roaming was when it was overtuned as kitten, I'm not sure why you're surprised here. Still strong in large scale.

Pretty sure Scourge was not even designed for roaming.

Yup, that's what I think and imo it's perfectly fine for an espec to not excel in every area.

[jpsssss.7530]

@Sobx.1758 said:Yup, that's what I think and imo it's perfectly fine for an espec to not excel in every area.

My issue is that it was originally intended to be a condition focused espec with some group support (which necro now lacks entirely) which it does neither very well now...The only build that works is a power boon strip build and it only works if you live in a Firebrand's backpack... PvP has a build that works... but it still strictly worse than core and reaper...