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Honestly it really varies person by person.. you can clearly see that in the comments of this thread. I've literally been in groups where 2 players will end up arguing over anothers DPS because they d

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Armen.1483" said:I would say minimum is - 12k: solo, 30k: group content. Those are minimums that any dps class is capable of doing with little effort..If you are completely alone you should aim above 10k for dps, if you are not getting more than that you have bad gear, bad build or you should work on your rotations. Try getting a build that sustains might and other offensive boons.. Internet will help.

In group content however it is very different depending on enemy and your team. But if all boons are covered and enemy boss got vulnerability etc. you should aim for more than 30k bursts and around 20k dps.

Fractals are a lil different as many said above, it is more about bursting during the "exposed" debuff and there is also cleaving that is a whole another story. In fractals every boss is different so can't answer that and it may vary a lot from one team comp to another. But normally in tier 4 fractals dps players are expected to do at least 20k dps burst. If somebody is doing less than 20k burst in a firebrigade comp means he is getting carried...

People over inflate numbers because of peer pressure and playing the 'win the meters' game. A rough example of what dps is needed is as follows:

EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time - safety margin)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k outside of raids.

Except those that raid typically don’t want to fight each boss for the entire timer. A player with personal DPS close to that level will experience issues getting and staying in groups.

yeah, as i said EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time
- safety margin
)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k
outside of raids.

Well that safety margin is set by raiders who want quick and efficient runs (not necessarily saying speed runs) so you bringing up that formula doesn’t counter argument of the poster that you had quoted. If groups prefer at least 20k DPS then the safety margin would be the difference between that and the minimum DPS.
  1. I was not taking about raids.i was talking about min dps generically.

  2. The thread was what is the minimum dps, and the minimum dps is to get a kill. This is the problem with this style of raid and why its rotting in GW2,. Ask yourself this, did that raider set that same safe margin on their own first kill? Ofc not, and yet they impose demands on other players that they did not apply to themselves on their own learning journey.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"Armen.1483" said:I would say minimum is - 12k: solo, 30k: group content. Those are minimums that any dps class is capable of doing with little effort..If you are completely alone you should aim above 10k for dps, if you are not getting more than that you have bad gear, bad build or you should work on your rotations. Try getting a build that sustains might and other offensive boons.. Internet will help.

In group content however it is very different depending on enemy and your team. But if all boons are covered and enemy boss got vulnerability etc. you should aim for more than 30k bursts and around 20k dps.

Fractals are a lil different as many said above, it is more about bursting during the "exposed" debuff and there is also cleaving that is a whole another story. In fractals every boss is different so can't answer that and it may vary a lot from one team comp to another. But normally in tier 4 fractals dps players are expected to do at least 20k dps burst. If somebody is doing less than 20k burst in a firebrigade comp means he is getting carried...

People over inflate numbers because of peer pressure and playing the 'win the meters' game. A rough example of what dps is needed is as follows:

EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time - safety margin)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k outside of raids.

Except those that raid typically don’t want to fight each boss for the entire timer. A player with personal DPS close to that level will experience issues getting and staying in groups.

yeah, as i said EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time
- safety margin
)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k
outside of raids.

Well that safety margin is set by raiders who want quick and efficient runs (not necessarily saying speed runs) so you bringing up that formula doesn’t counter argument of the poster that you had quoted. If groups prefer at least 20k DPS then the safety margin would be the difference between that and the minimum DPS.
  1. I was not taking about raids.i was talking about min dps generically.
  2. The thread was what is the minimum dps, and the minimum dps is to get a kill. This is the problem with this style of raid and why its rotting in GW2,. Ask yourself this, did that raider set that same safe margin on their own first kill? Ofc not, and yet they impose demands on other players that they did not apply to themselves on their own learning journey.

They asked what kind of DPS people look for in raids.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Armen.1483" said:I would say minimum is - 12k: solo, 30k: group content. Those are minimums that any dps class is capable of doing with little effort..If you are completely alone you should aim above 10k for dps, if you are not getting more than that you have bad gear, bad build or you should work on your rotations. Try getting a build that sustains might and other offensive boons.. Internet will help.

In group content however it is very different depending on enemy and your team. But if all boons are covered and enemy boss got vulnerability etc. you should aim for more than 30k bursts and around 20k dps.

Fractals are a lil different as many said above, it is more about bursting during the "exposed" debuff and there is also cleaving that is a whole another story. In fractals every boss is different so can't answer that and it may vary a lot from one team comp to another. But normally in tier 4 fractals dps players are expected to do at least 20k dps burst. If somebody is doing less than 20k burst in a firebrigade comp means he is getting carried...

People over inflate numbers because of peer pressure and playing the 'win the meters' game. A rough example of what dps is needed is as follows:

EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time - safety margin)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k outside of raids.

Except those that raid typically don’t want to fight each boss for the entire timer. A player with personal DPS close to that level will experience issues getting and staying in groups.

yeah, as i said EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time
- safety margin
)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k
outside of raids.

Well that safety margin is set by raiders who want quick and efficient runs (not necessarily saying speed runs) so you bringing up that formula doesn’t counter argument of the poster that you had quoted. If groups prefer at least 20k DPS then the safety margin would be the difference between that and the minimum DPS.
  1. I was not taking about raids.i was talking about min dps generically.
  2. The thread was what is the minimum dps, and the minimum dps is to get a kill. This is the problem with this style of raid and why its rotting in GW2,. Ask yourself this, did that raider set that same safe margin on their own first kill? Ofc not, and yet they impose demands on other players that they did not apply to themselves on their own learning journey.

They asked what kind of DPS people look for in raids.

The world does not revolve around raids.

To qoute op

'What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes,

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"Armen.1483" said:I would say minimum is - 12k: solo, 30k: group content. Those are minimums that any dps class is capable of doing with little effort..If you are completely alone you should aim above 10k for dps, if you are not getting more than that you have bad gear, bad build or you should work on your rotations. Try getting a build that sustains might and other offensive boons.. Internet will help.

In group content however it is very different depending on enemy and your team. But if all boons are covered and enemy boss got vulnerability etc. you should aim for more than 30k bursts and around 20k dps.

Fractals are a lil different as many said above, it is more about bursting during the "exposed" debuff and there is also cleaving that is a whole another story. In fractals every boss is different so can't answer that and it may vary a lot from one team comp to another. But normally in tier 4 fractals dps players are expected to do at least 20k dps burst. If somebody is doing less than 20k burst in a firebrigade comp means he is getting carried...

People over inflate numbers because of peer pressure and playing the 'win the meters' game. A rough example of what dps is needed is as follows:

EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time - safety margin)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k outside of raids.

Except those that raid typically don’t want to fight each boss for the entire timer. A player with personal DPS close to that level will experience issues getting and staying in groups.

yeah, as i said EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time
- safety margin
)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k
outside of raids.

Well that safety margin is set by raiders who want quick and efficient runs (not necessarily saying speed runs) so you bringing up that formula doesn’t counter argument of the poster that you had quoted. If groups prefer at least 20k DPS then the safety margin would be the difference between that and the minimum DPS.
  1. I was not taking about raids.i was talking about min dps generically.
  2. The thread was what is the minimum dps, and the minimum dps is to get a kill. This is the problem with this style of raid and why its rotting in GW2,. Ask yourself this, did that raider set that same safe margin on their own first kill? Ofc not, and yet they impose demands on other players that they did not apply to themselves on their own learning journey.

They asked what kind of DPS people look for in raids.

The world does not revolve around raids.

To qoute op

'What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes,

Yes, I was really just trying to determine a ballpark range. I know that value will change between game modes and per personal preference.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"Armen.1483" said:I would say minimum is - 12k: solo, 30k: group content. Those are minimums that any dps class is capable of doing with little effort..If you are completely alone you should aim above 10k for dps, if you are not getting more than that you have bad gear, bad build or you should work on your rotations. Try getting a build that sustains might and other offensive boons.. Internet will help.

In group content however it is very different depending on enemy and your team. But if all boons are covered and enemy boss got vulnerability etc. you should aim for more than 30k bursts and around 20k dps.

Fractals are a lil different as many said above, it is more about bursting during the "exposed" debuff and there is also cleaving that is a whole another story. In fractals every boss is different so can't answer that and it may vary a lot from one team comp to another. But normally in tier 4 fractals dps players are expected to do at least 20k dps burst. If somebody is doing less than 20k burst in a firebrigade comp means he is getting carried...

People over inflate numbers because of peer pressure and playing the 'win the meters' game. A rough example of what dps is needed is as follows:

EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time - safety margin)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k outside of raids.

Except those that raid typically don’t want to fight each boss for the entire timer. A player with personal DPS close to that level will experience issues getting and staying in groups.

yeah, as i said EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time
- safety margin
)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k
outside of raids.

Well that safety margin is set by raiders who want quick and efficient runs (not necessarily saying speed runs) so you bringing up that formula doesn’t counter argument of the poster that you had quoted. If groups prefer at least 20k DPS then the safety margin would be the difference between that and the minimum DPS.
  1. I was not taking about raids.i was talking about min dps generically.
  2. The thread was what is the minimum dps, and the minimum dps is to get a kill. This is the problem with this style of raid and why its rotting in GW2,. Ask yourself this, did that raider set that same safe margin on their own first kill? Ofc not, and yet they impose demands on other players that they did not apply to themselves on their own learning journey.

They asked what kind of DPS people look for in raids.

The world does not revolve around raids.

To qoute op

'What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes,

And? I responded to the post of you listing a formula for minimum DPS in raids. Just because there are different standards for other modes doesn't nullify any arguments against what you said about raids.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Armen.1483" said:I would say minimum is - 12k: solo, 30k: group content. Those are minimums that any dps class is capable of doing with little effort..If you are completely alone you should aim above 10k for dps, if you are not getting more than that you have bad gear, bad build or you should work on your rotations. Try getting a build that sustains might and other offensive boons.. Internet will help.

In group content however it is very different depending on enemy and your team. But if all boons are covered and enemy boss got vulnerability etc. you should aim for more than 30k bursts and around 20k dps.

Fractals are a lil different as many said above, it is more about bursting during the "exposed" debuff and there is also cleaving that is a whole another story. In fractals every boss is different so can't answer that and it may vary a lot from one team comp to another. But normally in tier 4 fractals dps players are expected to do at least 20k dps burst. If somebody is doing less than 20k burst in a firebrigade comp means he is getting carried...

People over inflate numbers because of peer pressure and playing the 'win the meters' game. A rough example of what dps is needed is as follows:

EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time - safety margin)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k outside of raids.

Except those that raid typically don’t want to fight each boss for the entire timer. A player with personal DPS close to that level will experience issues getting and staying in groups.

yeah, as i said EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time
- safety margin
)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k
outside of raids.

Well that safety margin is set by raiders who want quick and efficient runs (not necessarily saying speed runs) so you bringing up that formula doesn’t counter argument of the poster that you had quoted. If groups prefer at least 20k DPS then the safety margin would be the difference between that and the minimum DPS.
  1. I was not taking about raids.i was talking about min dps generically.
  2. The thread was what is the minimum dps, and the minimum dps is to get a kill. This is the problem with this style of raid and why its rotting in GW2,. Ask yourself this, did that raider set that same safe margin on their own first kill? Ofc not, and yet they impose demands on other players that they did not apply to themselves on their own learning journey.

They asked what kind of DPS people look for in raids.

The world does not revolve around raids.

To qoute op

'What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes,

And? I responded to the post of you listing a formula for minimum DPS in raids. Just because there are different standards for other modes doesn't nullify any arguments against what you said about raids.

The minimum dps for a raid objectively is the minimum to kill (I. E anything before enrage is subjective) The thread was not just about raids.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@"Armen.1483" said:I would say minimum is - 12k: solo, 30k: group content. Those are minimums that any dps class is capable of doing with little effort..If you are completely alone you should aim above 10k for dps, if you are not getting more than that you have bad gear, bad build or you should work on your rotations. Try getting a build that sustains might and other offensive boons.. Internet will help.

In group content however it is very different depending on enemy and your team. But if all boons are covered and enemy boss got vulnerability etc. you should aim for more than 30k bursts and around 20k dps.

Fractals are a lil different as many said above, it is more about bursting during the "exposed" debuff and there is also cleaving that is a whole another story. In fractals every boss is different so can't answer that and it may vary a lot from one team comp to another. But normally in tier 4 fractals dps players are expected to do at least 20k dps burst. If somebody is doing less than 20k burst in a firebrigade comp means he is getting carried...

People over inflate numbers because of peer pressure and playing the 'win the meters' game. A rough example of what dps is needed is as follows:

EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time - safety margin)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k outside of raids.

Except those that raid typically don’t want to fight each boss for the entire timer. A player with personal DPS close to that level will experience issues getting and staying in groups.

yeah, as i said EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time
- safety margin
)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k
outside of raids.

Well that safety margin is set by raiders who want quick and efficient runs (not necessarily saying speed runs) so you bringing up that formula doesn’t counter argument of the poster that you had quoted. If groups prefer at least 20k DPS then the safety margin would be the difference between that and the minimum DPS.
  1. I was not taking about raids.i was talking about min dps generically.
  2. The thread was what is the minimum dps, and the minimum dps is to get a kill. This is the problem with this style of raid and why its rotting in GW2,. Ask yourself this, did that raider set that same safe margin on their own first kill? Ofc not, and yet they impose demands on other players that they did not apply to themselves on their own learning journey.

They asked what kind of DPS people look for in raids.

The world does not revolve around raids.

To qoute op

'What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes,

And? I responded to the post of you listing a formula for minimum DPS in raids. Just because there are different standards for other modes doesn't nullify any arguments against what you said about raids.

The minimum dps for a raid objectively is the minimum to kill (I. E anything before enrage is subjective) The thread was not just about raids.

Each mode has different standards and I was arguing against the one that you used for raids. Nowhere did I apply anything I said to other areas of the game. Just because the thread covers other areas doesn’t exclude me from disagreeing with what you said about one of them.

Players have cleared raids in white gear. That’s the minimum type of gear needed. How likely are you to get a group in that? The minimum DPS by the numbers is very different from what you will actually encounter.

Fractals don’t have fail timers so you could say the minimum DPS that a player needs to do is 1. Do you thing people will get groups if they’re pulling that? Oh wait. This thread is not just about fractals either...

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Indeed, and therefore you should use an objective measurement. I. E. Not anacdotal:

'Objective measurement is the repetition of a unit amount that maintains its size, within an allowable range of error, no matter which instrument, intended to measure the variable of interest, is used and no matter who or what relevant person or thing is measured.'

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Indeed, and therefore you should use an objective measurement. I. E. Not anacdotal:

'Objective measurement is the repetition of a unit amount that maintains its size, within an allowable range of error, no matter which instrument, intended to measure the variable of interest, is used and no matter who or what relevant person or thing is measured.'

“ What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes?”

The above question doesn’t get an objective answer. An objective answer, like the formula you provided, doesn’t help them with getting into a group doing raids.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:I was just curious what people who regularly run various organized PvE content successfully consider reasonable benchmarks in various contexts? Obviously, there are the places like snowcrows you can see the ceiling, but what if we're just talking ordinary players who can get the job done but aren't setting records. What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes?

5-10k per player tbh

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Indeed, and therefore you should use an objective measurement. I. E. Not anacdotal:

'Objective measurement is the repetition of a unit amount that maintains its size, within an allowable range of error, no matter which instrument, intended to measure the variable of interest, is
used and no matter who or what relevant person or thing is measured.'

“ What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes?”

The above question doesn’t get an objective answer. An objective answer, like the formula you provided, doesn’t help them with getting into a group doing raids.

And there lies the problem with GW2 raids in a nutshell.

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This thread should be called "whats the bare minimum i have to do?".Dont know how some people here are happy with pure mediocrity.

I get it, some wanna have fun and turn off their brains, however we're talking about GROUP content.Cant imagine anybody having fun carrying people who cant perform their roles properly.Lets be honest: If the easiest mmo (->gw2) on the market is to hard for ya, you're either fucking bad or lazy as hell.

A healthy person (not including disorders which affect visuality or reaction time) must be able to do ez 70% of the benchmarke.g. DH gs/scepter 33k -> 23k (70%). Investing less than 1h for training rotation at the golem. Done.

@Teratus.2859 said:

Someone even said raids can be beaten in masterwork gear.. that I found especially amusing lol, would love to see a video on that XD

That was great, thanks for sharing it XD

Just shows the guild Lucky Noobs who have won the Finals ERP (Elitist Raiding Party). Doesnt mean anybody can wear masterwork gear and hope to kill a boss.Casuals would wipe a 1000 times before even phasing the boss.

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:I was just curious what people who regularly run various organized PvE content successfully consider reasonable benchmarks in various contexts? Obviously, there are the places like snowcrows you can see the ceiling, but what if we're just talking ordinary players who can get the job done but aren't setting records. What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes?

5-10k per player tbh

Hey wanna know a secret? I'll tell ya. 5k dps is an auto attack chain on any power build with boons.Imagine your dps squad just auto attacking, hilarious.How dense can you be

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Indeed, and therefore you should use an objective measurement. I. E. Not anacdotal:

'Objective measurement is the repetition of a unit amount that maintains its size, within an allowable range of error, no matter which instrument, intended to measure the variable of interest, is
used and no matter who or what relevant person or thing is measured.'

“ What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes?”

The above question doesn’t get an objective answer. An objective answer, like the formula you provided, doesn’t help them with getting into a group doing raids.

And there lies the problem with GW2 raids in a nutshell.

The problem is that you can't give an objective answer to a subjective question?

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I see myself as a member of this group.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:but what if we're just talking ordinary players who can get the job done but aren't setting records.

Here are some personal goals of mine, that i can but wont necessarily reach every time.

To be clear, ima speaking about boss dps:

Arkk: 15k+99cm: 20k+

W1: 15k+KC: 20k+Xera (100%-50%): 20k+Cairn: 20k+ (for no green strat)Mo: 25k+SH: 20k+Largos: 20k+ (only killed it 2 times and didnt checked logs so far, but from ingame ArcDps this should be reasonable)

And as general rule, dont be below your warrior, although i dont have this problem too often, cause in most cases i'm the warrior.

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@Akin Kudzu Tin.4356 said:

Someone even said raids can be beaten in masterwork gear.. that I found especially amusing lol, would love to see a video on that XD

That was great, thanks for sharing it XD

Just shows the guild Lucky Noobs who have won the Finals ERP (Elitist Raiding Party). Doesnt mean anybody can wear masterwork gear and hope to kill a boss.Casuals would wipe a 1000 times before even phasing the boss.

Naturally, but the fact it's possible proves a lot about what i've said about raids in the past.It shows how much leeway there is in this content in terms of builds and dps etc, knowing or being experienced with the mechanics is far more important.

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@yann.1946 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Indeed, and therefore you should use an objective measurement. I. E. Not anacdotal:

'Objective measurement is the repetition of a unit amount that maintains its size, within an allowable range of error, no matter which instrument, intended to measure the variable of interest, is
used and no matter who or what relevant person or thing is measured.'

“ What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes?”

The above question doesn’t get an objective answer. An objective answer, like the formula you provided, doesn’t help them with getting into a group doing raids.

And there lies the problem with GW2 raids in a nutshell.

The problem is that you can't give an objective answer to a subjective question?

Fights are perfectly quantifiable, the problem is people wanting to be subjective because its suits their narrative.

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That’s like someone asking for an open world build and you saying everything works in open world. You literally offered them no help at all. Even though what you said is objectively true it doesn’t answer what they were asking.

In the case of this thread, the OP was asking everyone what DPS range they look for in DPS for raids, fractals, and strikes. Answering with what the bare minimum is needed based on some mathematical formula does not help them with their question and shows you missed the point of their question.

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Except when doing raids, raiders expect a certain DPS range for DPS players and it’s nowhere near the mathematical minimum for the boss. This is why an answer like that is unhelpful.

I’ll also add that lower DPS tends to mean that groups have to deal with the mechanics longer which increases the likelihood of someone messing up. Depending on what the group is doing, this could lead to a wipe.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Indeed, and therefore you should use an objective measurement. I. E. Not anacdotal:

'Objective measurement is the repetition of a unit amount that maintains its size, within an allowable range of error, no matter which instrument, intended to measure the variable of interest, is
used and no matter who or what relevant person or thing is measured.'

“ What sort of range would you say you look for in a DPS class in raids, fractals, strikes?”

The above question doesn’t get an objective answer. An objective answer, like the formula you provided, doesn’t help them with getting into a group doing raids.

And there lies the problem with GW2 raids in a nutshell.

The problem is that you can't give an objective answer to a subjective question?

Fights are perfectly quantifiable, the problem is people wanting to be subjective because its suits their narrative.

Ah now I see why I was confused, you're missing the fact that you're "objective" formula is also subjective. (it has a safety term for a reason)

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Fractals as long healer isnt doing more dps than you its fine 5k dps is enough for most fractals and raids. Its probly the highest dps possible. I dont trust arc dps 20k seems way to much for this game

I hope you are trolling. 5k is below auto attack dps and 40-60k+ are possible in some situations. You can achieve 100-140k in single phases. Maybe thats why everything feels so undertuned. Its just too hard to use good builds for most of the players.

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@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:People over inflate numbers because of peer pressure and playing the 'win the meters' game. A rough example of what dps is needed is as follows:

EHP of boss / (length of fight before enrage - no dps time - safety margin)/ number of dps players. i.e It is sub 10k outside of raids.

Can you tell me who is pressuring us ? and which numbers are.. heh.. inflated ? Your formula is wrong too because there are many other factors there that make the need of high dps more valuable. 1st argument is: it is not difficult to get to the numbers I menioned. In fact with a good build and somewhat knowledge of the class you should be doing those with no issues. 2nd argument is: we want shorter fights because of risk factor in group content. 3rd argument is: toughness and vitality are wasted stats for dps classes , they are nuisive in pve group content and paired with bad builds makes the same random mashing less effective than with at least a good build. 4th argument is: if we: "the evil raiding elitists" stop participating in the open world events, Tyria will become a very dangerous place to be because we also use the evil elder dragon magics to be able to do HUUUUUUGE IMPOSSIBLE DPS...nah I am sorry, 20k dps isn't much to ask, there is no magic in that, just the keyboard mashing is little less random and a tiny bit of brains and practice is required ... Every time I accidentally enable dps meters in open world I try to understand how is it possible to do so many animations and stuff with so little effect.

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