Dagger storm is joke when comparing to tornado - buff ideas.

[Babylon.8972]

Currently thief's elite skill called "Dagger storm" is completely joke and useless. If we compare it to elementalist's elite called Tornado, we can say those 2 elites are at completely different level.I been thinking a couple ideas to bring dagger storm to same power level with tornado.

-Reduce cooldown to 60s-Increase total duration of dagger storm to 5s-Make every dagger that hits enemy to stun 1s and that stun effect will stack every time it hits, it could be good AoE lockdown tool for thief and brings some utility to teamfight (you can counterplay daggerstorm very easily still with stability)-Make first stun dagger that hits unblockable per enemy, and rest of daggers can be blocked in normal way

If you guys have some ideas to make dagger storm viable again, please share your opinions here.

[Ovark.2514]

Thieves still use DS because it's good. Comparing a skill from one class with a skill from another that shares the same slot is a largely pointless thought experiment. Each skill comes complete with an 7 (soon to be 8) trait lines, 40-80ish weapon skills, 25ish utility skills, and class mechanics. That being said, evan though dagger storm evades while tornado does not, tornado is overtuned in the current meta.

[zarcon.7820]

@"Babylon.8972" said:Currently thief's elite skill called "Dagger storm" is completely joke and useless. If we compare it to elementalist's elite called Tornado, we can say those 2 elites are at completely different level.I been thinking a couple ideas to bring dagger storm to same power level with tornado.

-Reduce cooldown to 60s-Increase total duration of dagger storm to 5s-Make every dagger that hits enemy to stun 1s and that stun effect will stack every time it hits, it could be good AoE lockdown tool for thief and brings some utility to teamfight (you can counterplay daggerstorm very easily still with stability)-Make first stun dagger that hits unblockable per enemy, and rest of daggers can be blocked in normal way

If you guys have some ideas to make dagger storm viable again, please share your opinions here.

Agree on most points however I do think a daz would be a more balanced alternative. Atm the duration is so incredibly low and daggerstorm is easily countered. Also the damage should return to what it was before. But it got nerfed because people complained about it. Instead now you have tornados playing pingpong with you which is supposedly okay in most peoples eyes.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Daggerstorm is definitely fine as it is and needs no changes, anything more and it would just get nerfed, possibly into a state worse then now, a better solution would be to slightly nerf tornado. Also u can't put one skill in direct 1v1 competition to one another as the whole kit needs to be needs to be considered and how the performance of the class is in comparison or u can end up with a class that's already over all stronger but with a weaker elite than another getting a further buff to its elite making it even more stronger. I'm definitely not saying thief is overall stronger than ele but that u cant just compare a skill vs skill without looking at the class. Tornado does far to much and for far to long of a duration, I have zero clue as to wth the balance team was thinking keeping it in this state after the big tone down, a skill like that should be 3-5 seconds max for what it does instead of the ridiculous duration it is now which is like 10 sec or something stupid no?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Imagine, asking for buffs(powercreep ideas on top of that) and trying to justify it by comparing it to a very weak and very situational skill called Tornado.Huh?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Dagger storm is currently viable merely by nature of its 3 second evade. the damage/cripple is just icing.Even if you were to reach to compare it to tornado (which, realistically, you can't do in good faith because Ele differs so vastly from Thief in gameplay), you can still damage an Ele in Tornado form.

Evades with a little pressure is fine. Pressure with very little evade is also fine.Evades/Stun on top of that would get thief nerfswatted faster than even they are used to. The forum dogpiled pistol whip for this very reason.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:Imagine, asking for buffs(powercreep ideas on top of that) and trying to justify it by comparing it to a very weak and very situational skill called Tornado.Huh?

Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Dagger storm is currently viable merely by nature of its 3 second evade. the damage/cripple is just icing.Even if you were to reach to compare it to tornado (which, realistically, you can't do in good faith because Ele differs so vastly from Thief in gameplay), you can still damage an Ele in Tornado form.

Evades with a little pressure is fine. Pressure with very little evade is also fine.Evades/Stun on top of that would get thief nerfswatted faster than even they are used to. The forum dogpiled pistol whip for this very reason.

Yup

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

The idea is fine, I don't understand anything about specific profession balance so I can't really knock it.

Buffs are extinct on a game-wide scale though, you know? It is only nerfs on the agenda from here on because that's super hype. ??

[Bazsi.2734]

Here is how you make dagger storm viable:

• Equip it on your skillbar.
• Make sure you have a keybind for your elite skill, or move your mouse over its icon.
• Press the button/click on it.

There you have it, plenty of time to aim that shadowstep or inflict strong AoE cleave. It's not a pressure tool, its an "oh shit" button or a way to bait out enemy bursts. Holy cat your suggested changes.... 60 second cooldown, 5 second duration, unblockable AoE stuns... please stop making balance suggestions. This would be so incredibly out of the line powerful, not only would be taking this as an elite mandatory, playing thief would be basicly mandatory for everyone, because nothing in this game comes even remotely close to this level of power. Cease!

[Dantheman.3589]

I promise I will make dagger storm a full duration dodge

[Shiyo.3578]

@"Babylon.8972" said:Currently thief's elite skill called "Dagger storm" is completely joke and useless. If we compare it to elementalist's elite called Tornado, we can say those 2 elites are at completely different level.I been thinking a couple ideas to bring dagger storm to same power level with tornado.

-Reduce cooldown to 60s-Increase total duration of dagger storm to 5s-Make every dagger that hits enemy to stun 1s and that stun effect will stack every time it hits, it could be good AoE lockdown tool for thief and brings some utility to teamfight (you can counterplay daggerstorm very easily still with stability)-Make first stun dagger that hits unblockable per enemy, and rest of daggers can be blocked in normal way

If you guys have some ideas to make dagger storm viable again, please share your opinions here.

Daggerstorm should go back to being a projectile reflect only.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Babylon.8972" said:Currently thief's elite skill called "Dagger storm" is completely joke and useless. If we compare it to elementalist's elite called Tornado, we can say those 2 elites are at completely different level.I been thinking a couple ideas to bring dagger storm to same power level with tornado.

-Reduce cooldown to 60s-Increase total duration of dagger storm to 5s-Make every dagger that hits enemy to stun 1s and that stun effect will stack every time it hits, it could be good AoE lockdown tool for thief and brings some utility to teamfight (you can counterplay daggerstorm very easily still with stability)-Make first stun dagger that hits unblockable per enemy, and rest of daggers can be blocked in normal way

If you guys have some ideas to make dagger storm viable again, please share your opinions here.

Daggerstorm should go back to being a projectile reflect only.

Imagine, in today version of the game lmao u may as well just delete it entirely cuz it would be literally thee worst elite in the game.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Babylon.8972" said:Currently thief's elite skill called "Dagger storm" is completely joke and useless. If we compare it to elementalist's elite called Tornado, we can say those 2 elites are at completely different level.I been thinking a couple ideas to bring dagger storm to same power level with tornado.

-Reduce cooldown to 60s-Increase total duration of dagger storm to 5s-Make every dagger that hits enemy to stun 1s and that stun effect will stack every time it hits, it could be good AoE lockdown tool for thief and brings some utility to teamfight (you can counterplay daggerstorm very easily still with stability)-Make first stun dagger that hits unblockable per enemy, and rest of daggers can be blocked in normal way

If you guys have some ideas to make dagger storm viable again, please share your opinions here.

Daggerstorm should go back to being a projectile reflect only.

Imagine, in today version of the game lmao u may as well just delete it entirely cuz it would be literally thee worst elite in the game.

Good, thief doesn't need "get out of jail free button #60360360". It's why the class is so frowned upon by GOOD thief mains now, because Anet has constantly kept dumbing it down.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Yeah that's an excuse for giving theif the shittiest elite in the game cuz U dont like thief lmao grow up. Daggerstorms fine as is, not op or underperforming. The post is about daggeratorm being weak and I'm saying it's fine and ur in here to what? Complain and say daggeratorm needs hammered so ur dream of thieves being a free bag may come true lol

[Tycura.1982]

As long as you have stability tornado isn't the end all be all. Leaves the ele wide open to counter damage. A better change would be some kind of indicator to show when tornado is going to knock you so evades wouldn't have to be guesswork.

[zarcon.7820]

All thiefs elite skills are super bad

[Babylon.8972]

@zarcon.7820 said:All thiefs elite skills are super bad

Every other class have even 1 decent useful elite, but thief have 0. Just joke tier elites. I would pay a lot to swap my elites with engineer.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yeah that's an excuse for giving theif the kitten elite in the game cuz U dont like thief lmao grow up. Daggerstorms fine as is, not op or underperforming. The post is about daggeratorm being weak and I'm saying it's fine and ur in here to what? Complain and say daggeratorm needs hammered so ur dream of thieves being a free bag may come true lol

I main thief. I think daggerstorm is unfun to fight and too simple and effective to use.'

@zarcon.7820 said:All thiefs elite skills are super bad

All of base thief elites are insanely strong. Daggerstorms a get out of jail for free card, thieves guild is instant 1v1 winner, and basi venom is insane CC with a teammate.

[zarcon.7820]

@Babylon.8972 said:

@zarcon.7820 said:All thiefs elite skills are super bad

Every other class have even 1 decent useful elite, but thief have 0. Just joke tier elites. I would pay a lot to swap my elites with engineer.

Here is what I would like to see to balance thief out with other classes.

1: tripple the BLIND pulsing on BLINDING POWDER as it was yeaRs ago. Literally every class has gained aoe in the recent years. It is inpossible for thief to compete with this now. They get killed to easily.

2: Make DJ on DEADEYE unblockable. There is more reflection then ever.

3: Steal is okay. However I think mug should be made baseline.

4: Remove the cooldown of backstab. Its stupid and I have no clue why this is in the first place also dmg is garbage. But this is due to the bunker meta were stuck in for years.

5: Remove the binding at the start of heartseeker. Rn it locks you from movement. It feels buggy.

6: Make basilisk venom and heal venom instant. So it goes in par with the other venoms.

Anything I missed?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

[Babylon.8972]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

Tornado is op as hell, its permanent stability, permanent AoE cc, also cc on demand #5 skill and some good dmg. So think twice before u talk nonsense.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Babylon.8972 said:

@zarcon.7820 said:All thiefs elite skills are super bad

Every other class have even 1 decent useful elite, but thief have 0. Just joke tier elites. I would pay a lot to swap my elites with engineer.OH BOOHOO

just tell me, which other class can engage and disengage at will and stealth up whenever and how long they want?

Thief does not need any buffs.

[Kodama.6453]

Ok, but then also remove the evade from dagger storm and replace it with pulsing stability so that we can burst down a thief that is using daggerstorm.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@Babylon.8972 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Imagine thinking tornado is weak...... huh lol

The heck you smoking, Tornado is the weakest of all transform skills in the entire game.Comparing Dagger Storm to Tornado is another joke.Tornado have VERY limited uses and 99% of times(wow, you prevent stomp/ress sometimes if lucky, O M G SUCH BROKEN SKILL) is completely useless like most of eles elite skills.Dagger Storm is another "oh kitten" skill for teef that grants long evasion, which can only be counter by like 7 skills in the entire game. What you want more? Combo it with Basilisk Venom so it'll stun anything the dagger hits for 10min?Imagine asking for powercreep buffs for a skill that actually should get nerfs.

Tornado is op as hell, its permanent stability, permanent AoE cc, also cc on demand #5 skill and some good dmg. So think twice before u talk nonsense.

How the heck, a skill that barely got changed since like 2016 is now OP? What is wrong with you? People use it to interrupt stomps/resses at most, barely seen anyone use it beyond that and you call it op? Get your facts straight, dmg is non-existant compared to other transform elites like Rampage or Lich, CC is the only thing it's somehow "so-so" compared to some other classes that can spam them(waving at hammer warrior). Perma stab, like, what? Every Transform skill have pulsing "perma stab", UNIMAGINABLE!How someone can even compare Dagger Storm to Tornado is beyond me.One of the weakest elite skills among elite skills since 2012 that barely has any use now is called "op", hilarious.